i think they should make a Yuuzhan Vong CIV

[Sithmaster_821]

Basically, I agree 100% with every single statement Kryllith has said

You too, huh?

 

Remember that the majority of the players who buy the game dont know about EU, its just the big SW fans (and RTS fans like me) are the ones who come to these forums and post on a thread about EU.

 

And Lucas>EU

[Admiral Vostok]

That makes three of us then :bdroid2:

 

I think that not only will the majority of purchasers be unfamiliar with EU, but it might even alienate some people so they don't buy it. If I picked up a game based on a movie and it featured something not in the movie I'd think "that's a tad strange. Must be a different movie I'm thinking of..."

[Darth Windu]

Better make that four.

 

As for EU. I have just discovered a MAJOR flaw in EU.

In EU books, Boba Fett survived the sarlack and went back to bounty hunting anfter a few run-ins with Han Solo.

 

HOWEVER on a recent question on starwars.com, it was revealed that lucas always intended for Boba to DIE in the sarlack pit. Hence the EU is wrong.

 

This brings up issues with EU, and as many people have said, the great percentage of fans do not read the books, they only see the movies, and hence will not recognise EU civ's.

[Admiral Vostok]

Yeah, that was on starwars.com, right Windu?

 

Lucas said as far as he is concerned Boba Fett is dead. However he did approve of Boba's resurrection. This shows how different from Lucas' vision EU is even if he did approve it. He allowed it to be written, but as far as he is concerned it is plain wrong.

[AlliedCommander]

After the first two posts of "i think that would be sweet" and "me too" (something like that), after stating my opinion on the matter I wrappped up the next two pages by stating that many don't know much about the EU or don't like it.

 

If people don't like the EU, that is totally fine with me though. You can't force someone to like something. Actually you can, but that's besides the point.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Why is everyone so negative about EU stuff getting into the game? what if people start to like the Yuuzhan Vong after they play with them? It's like SWGB. It got popular by one person buying, telling another person that he liked it and to go buy it and so on! It may happen for the Vong. Besides, we are not talking about if we like EU or not. It's more about will it work or won't it.

[CorranSec]

Firstly, about the ACTUAL topic of this thread (or at least the topic it moved to, that being the hutt civ one).

A Hutt Cartel would be a much more legitimate and fun civ to make than just an all around "Criminals and Gangsters" civ. Unlike the criminal civ, the Hutts have clearly defined borders, a good rundown of units, a homeworld, an economy, etc. etc. I really can't see criminals banding together to battle the Republic etc. If you do want something like this, though, try the Smugglers Union.

 

Now, about the whole EU debate.

 

Vostok, let me clear something up. I never said that any game based on a movie is a bad game. But 'based' is the key word here. It is clear that extra-movie material must be included to make a complete game.

I have seen no games which are exactly based on a movie. Ignoring my personal points and opinions, it's simply not possible. Look at some big movie hits- the Harry Potter games contained things that may well have happened to Harry, but weren't shown in the movie, etc. The Phantom Menace game contained some things that were completely contradictory to the movie (eg. Jar Jar meeting Qui-Gon then being found by Obi and leading Obi to Qui-Gon). But do many people really care when it's for gameplay's sake?

 

Someone mentioned 'making up EU themselves.' Well, that's what game developers did with the majority of GB (eg. campaigns, some units). Ever heard of a scenario editor?

If you want to make your own game, fine. It's just obvious that there plainly isn't enough Lucas material to sustain an entirely new game, especially when all the major bases have been covered (with GB). And I for one don't want GB 2 to be "Episode 3 RTS."

 

Sure, there may be a few pieces of contradictory/doubtful EU stuff. But is anyone pondering a "Boba Fett Reincarnate" campaign? No. Are the Vong contradictory? No.

 

And Vostok's thing about "SW being a mix of all these different genres." Thank you for providing a reason why you don't like EU, but this doesn't have much relevance with the GAME. Unless you want a romance RTS. And the game is a sci-fi RTS, I do believe.

 

So you don't like the NJO, Kevin J. Anderson as an author, or EU in general. So what? Nobody (or at least I'm not) is planning to use precisely the material of the books. It's just like GB didn't use precisely the material of the movies. The books are inspiration and background material for units and campaigns, but just like in any other game, we build on what's there to make it better for gaming.

 

I believe there was an argument about "ohh, people don't like/know about EU, thus they won't buy the game."

 

You walk into a store. You see a game called "Star Wars: Galactic BattleGrounds 2." You read the back. It tells you stuff about "The Clone Wars campaign, based on Episode 3." Cool, very movie-ish. "The Smugglers Union/Hutt Cartel campaign, based on a variety of SW books and showing the various underworld characters of the movies in more detail." Oh, cool! It builds on the movies, rather than sticking to it like a bad smell. "The Yuuzhan Vong/New Republic campaign, showing how when the Rebels have become the dominant galactic civilisation, they come across the deadliest threat ever. Based on the popular NJO series." Oh, it shows what happens after the movies! That's great, I always wondered...

Etc, etc. There'll be more than enough 'canon' material to interest a canon fan/casual fan, and plenty of EU to back it up.

[Darth Windu]

Lets see, what would be more popular for 'SW:GB2'?

 

1. Campaigns from the movies. "Play as the Rebel Alliance or the Galactic Empire as you battle to free the galaxy, or to enslave it" and "Play the biggest and most exciting battles of the famed Clone Wars as the Galactic Republic, Confederacy of Independant Systems and the Trade Federation where your actions will decide the fate of the galaxy"

 

2. Campaigns from EU. "Play as the Smugglers Union as you battle though the forces of good and evil because they owe you money" and "Play as the Yvong Vung as you battle the New Republic in the campaigns set after the final Star Wars movie"

 

Now which would you choose, personally i would go with option 1.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

BOTH! They should both come together, but not get too extreme EU-wise,like smuggler's union, 'cuase even I don't know what it is.

[emimar]

We should have both, though I don't really think the smugglar thing would work.

 

Corransec, would you like it more if I turned this into another three headed space monkey thread?

 

:3headed:

 

Just kidding!

 

By the way, the Vong are nothing like the Borg. For one thing, they are anti tech and they actually have a personalliy.

[AlliedCommander]

Good points, corransec.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Corran- You aure know how to post!

 

Windu-I don't think smuggler unions might work.

 

If they put both, it will be for the best. you get the movie stuff and the EU stuff. Pleasing both sides. in terms of marketing now. If somebody comes into a stor and picks up a box of swgb2 and sees both of these, they will buy it! Of course they will! No EU stuff in any game has ever stopped me from liking it!

[Admiral Vostok]

Alright, I guess I don't have to play with Vong/Smugglers/whatever other stuff. And I guess if you include enough relevance to the movies so the game doesn't seem weird, it would still sell.

 

Whereas I would argue Vong are contradictory to the deep-down mythical themes of Star Wars, others might not care. I guess it really is my selfish argument to keep Star Wars pure that spawns my opposition for a Vong civ. I'm still against it, but I don't have any arguments that will win you EU fans over, so there's nothing I can do.

 

However, I must applaud Windu. Great take on the silliness of EU civs.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I'm not a big EU fan. I just know about the Vong. I do have to agree with you that EU is(except for the Thrawn Trilogy and some other) too sci-fi(like Star Trek *shudder*).

 

The Vong are not too much sci-fi(just enough for me to like them as a civ). They would make a good civ and I can totally picture them as a civ in swgb.

[lukeiamyourdad]

oh. Althought I want a Vong civ, movie>EU in swgb2.

[Sithmaster_821]

movie>EU

[Admiral Vostok]

I just did a bit of reading up on the Yuuzhan Vong in the Databank so I could back up my arguments. From that description in the Databank I've come across two things that CONTRADICT Star Wars explicitely:

 

The Yuuzhan Vong wear vonduun crab armor, a living carapace that protects a warrior in combat that can even temporarily withstand blaster strikes and lightsaber blows.

 

I was under the impression lightsabers could cut through anything except another lightsaber. I guess this one is open for debate, though.

 

Inexplicably, the Yuuzhan Vong are not part of the Force. Their presences do not register in the ubiquitous energy field, and they are immune to Force attacks.

 

That's odd considering the Force is everywhere, omni-present, binding together ALL life. It's in rocks, trees, everything. Making the Yuuzhan Vong not "part of" the Force contradicts the spiritual mythology in Star Wars. The ysalimiri (sp?) are also a contradiction of this basic philosophy, making the Thrawn trilogy similarly contradictory.

 

In conclusion: Yuuzhan Vong should not be included in a Star Wars RTS, as they are not Star Wars.

[angbandadmin]

admiral - you should read up in the books.

 

their ampistaffs are sharp down to the size of an atom so they can cut through anything.

and their armor does deflect lightsabers.

 

as far as them not existing in the force, they do!

the jedi just dont comprehend how to precieve them yet.

bar ANAKIN SOLO (rip) and JACEN SOLO.

 

that is the whole thrust of the NEW JEDI ORDER

changing how the force is rigidly divided into dark and light.

 

 

if you had read the thrawn series youd know that the ysalimiri (sp?) developed a non force bubble as a natural defense against force senstive predators.

 

and they are quite star wars!

 

 

the vong would be a great civ for this reason:

 

1. they would have really strong AIR to counter the rebs (new republic civ//galactice alliance CIV in 2???) with coralskippers.

 

2. they could have a unique system or resources since they "grow" their ships.

 

3. the books have outlined tons of great creatues for strike mechs, air ships, and troopers.

 

 

the vong are great

[swphreak]

The Vong should be in the game, and it can be done.

 

Their Crab Amour can withstand a lightsaber, but after a while, it weakens.

 

Besides, Lighsabers cant cut through anything. Cotosis (sp) Ore stops lightsabers in the sense that it shortcircuits them.

 

I give this my full support.

 

And V... you can't say it aint Star Wars. That debate is getting old, you'll never change our minds and vice versa, and it has "Star Wars" on the books so... I accept it as Star Wars

[emimar]

I was reading Destiny's Way recently out of the NJO books and cmae across this quote. Sounds all too famliar doesn't it?

 

"First you built droids. And then the droids built a factory - not for warships, but for more droids. Then the first set of droids, plus the new droids built by the factory, built another factory that built ships, while the first factory continued to build new droids to build new factories to build new droids to build new factories to build ships. You could keep going on forever building new factories, new droids and new ships, provided supplies weren't interrupted and someone was willing to pay for it all. Once the cascade started, it just kept growing, and the only way to stop it was to destroy all the factories, ships and droids, because if just one droid survived, that droid could start the cascade all over again, by building another droid.

 

Taken from Destiny’s Way

Walter Jon Williams"

[joesdomain]

Vong sounds cool! I don't know much about the New Jedi Order series. But I prefer seeing Prequel and Original Trilogy civilizations first. for instance ewoks and mon calamari! If there were others, I prefer other EU like Black Sun, Hutt Cartel, Imperial Remenant and New Republic.

[swphreak]

man what is it with Mon Cals? They don't have sh!t. They just build Mon Calk cruisers!

 

the civ has to have more ground units. The Vong have plenty of Ground Units, A criminal Organization could have enough ground units. Mon Cals don't really have ground units. They arn't warriors.

[joesdomain]

The Mon Calamari have to have some type of ground fighters. You just didn't see them in the movies. I heard somewhere they have excellant water vessels.

 

The Vong are ok too! But that is 100% EU.

 

Mon Calamari is partially canon.

[emimar]

I've said this before in another thread, the Mon Cals also built the B-Wing!

[swphreak]

Yes, I'm wll aware of that. the only ground troops I've seen/heard the MonCals ever had were basic Security. But I think they relied on the MonCals in ordit to kill anything before they landed.