Snipers

[SE_Vader_536]

snipers dont nessacarily have to be slow. they have only their gun with them so what could slow them down? and also why not have the snipers be availible at t3 and have an upgrade at t4 called elite sniper? Its an idea. like the best snipers in the army.

[SE_Vader_536]

hey ppl mind answering???

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Originally posted by SE_Vader_536

snipers dont nessacarily have to be slow. they have only their gun with them so what could slow them down? and also why not have the snipers be availible at t3 and have an upgrade at t4 called elite sniper? Its an idea. like the best snipers in the army.

 

If they are as good as the British Snipers in RA2, then they would have to be slow to balance out. High cost and slow reload (but not extremely slow eg. air cruiser) don't complete the balance.

Snipers don't need speed anyway!

[Sithmaster_821]

Yeah, the speed thing is about balance. Gameplay>Realism

[lukeiamyourdad]

Elite snipers-Of course there is gonna be an upgrade!

[Sithmaster_821]

Oooh.. good idea. Mesa likes

[Admiral Vostok]

Yeah if they were fast why would you bother getting normal troopers? You have to look at things like that so people don't just buy an army of snipers because they are better in every way than a trooper.

[CorranSec]

OK. Here's what I think-

1) High cost

2) Slow reload

3) Medium-slow move (slower than troopers, but faster than assault mechs)

4) Great power vs. troopers and light mechs (shot in the head/vital part of mech)

5) Bad against everything else (just bounces off heavy armour)

6) Cloaked

7) Not very good health (trooper health)

 

8) and this is most important: you can only build about 10 at once!

 

There would of course be an 'elite sniper' upgrade which makes them, uh, better.

 

So basically, sniper attacks would suck against a main base (with all its detection units), but would be great against a travelling force- get about 10 to lie in wait, then ambush them and run off.

This is balanced because the snipers could be easily detected by air/ground scouts, and go down pretty easily.

[Kryllith]

I wouldn't make them slow as a hinderance. They're designed to move into place, fire, and get out of a place fast. As such, they wouldn't have a lot of equipment to drag around and wouldn't be slow. Of course, because they don't have a lot of equipment, they also don't have a lot in the way of armour (if any), so any armour upgrades made to troopers they simply wouldn't get (at most, they might get the light armour bonus). This would put an emphasis on their need to run away once discovered, since up close regular troopers would thrash them.

 

Of course, if you want to give them another penalty, you could always give them a minimum distance. Make it so they can't shoot anything right up next to them...

 

Kryllith

[SE_Vader_536]

why have a min. range? snipers can shoot something right in front of their face... it just may be too late. and im still with the idea that snipers should move pretty fast. Its something that wont be out of balance. if they have min. range, no stealth, no armour, and cost a lot why not let in the speed...?

[Sithmaster_821]

1-5 Agree.

6+8 Unbalanced/No Fun

7 And low armor

[CorranSec]

Speed, on top of everything I've given them, is just too much.

Fast detectors (aka scouts) will have a hard time even finding them, and it'll be hard to bring in a more powerful force to destroy them before they've gotten away.

And on the realism side, snipers would generally move slower to avoid detection. So it's realistic and good for gameplay.

 

A minimum distance might work. It'd fit in with the whole 'attack from a distance thing.' And Vader, this is for a simple reason: Gameplay>Realism.

 

I agree about the low armour thing, but I'm adamanant about the rest. Sith, where's the fun in having a unit which can be found and killed by a few troopers with no backup?

With a lack of speed and health/armour, the sniper's main skills are in its stealth and massive power vs. troopers.

Number 8 balances out number 6. It's only fair that you shouldn't be able to mass troopers. They'll be a unit on the side, good for ambushes and the like, but no more.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Balances? maybe... I must meditate on that matter....

[CorranSec]

You finished meditating yet?

[Sithmaster_821]

Number 8 balances out number 6

Then lop them both off.

Sith, where's the fun in having a unit which can be found and killed by a few troopers with no backup?

Mounties, workers, grenadiers, AA troopers, AA mobiles, pummels, arts, and others can all be killed that way. Are they no fun to use?

[lukeiamyourdad]

I see. I have to agree with corran that they would be stupid if they were so easily defeated. the point about snipers is they can sneek around easily thus having some kind of stealth capability but if they had one it would be unbalanced. What if we made them hard to be targeted(hard for an enemy to land a shot on him)?

[Sithmaster_821]

a stealth long range unit would be overpowered, on matter how many you can make. The idea of the sniper was not they would raid towns, but pick off troopers behind meat sheilds

[darthfergie]

How may I put this gently...um...I can't...sorry. Anyway, Snipers are a definate NO. Do you remember the Snipers in RA2? If you made those things stealth there wouldn't be anybody in the entire wide world of play when facing a side with snipers that will ever use infantry, because they will NEVER find the sniper. The sniper as the name implies, will most likely have a long range, but adding stealth to that arsenal makes him impossible to find after he massacres your units. So what...he's visible for a half second in which he may either retreat or move to another good shooting spot to continue to harass your unsespecting infantry.

 

If the sniper was good against mechs then I'd say this guy, who was already better then Jedis, just became a God unit.

[CorranSec]

Sith: Of course those units fun and good to use! But they aren't actually designed to kill troopers, unlike the sniper.

8 and 6 improve the fun-ness and use of the sniper. Thus, we keep them.

 

Luke's dad- they're hard to be targeted because they're cloaked. It's damned hard to land a shot when you can't see your target, I can assure you.

 

Fergie- You're assuming that this is just like RA2. Think. This isn't RA2.

Infantry have many other advantages.

You can't have very many snipers at once.

Snipers can easily be found by scouting detectors (especially vulnerable to aircraft).

Jedi themselves should be detectors. So the sniper isn't better than Jedi.

 

Nobody seems to be thinking of GB2 as a different game! Come on, people! Lots of things are going to be different, and these different things will easily balance out the sniper.

[darthfergie]

sure...but jedi are dead before they can detect because snipers have long range and you can't detect stealth units until they are close anyways. One shot kill for snipers. Snipers are GODS. So what about air units...air units have to find them first. plus you can just put a few snipers in with a whole bunch of supporting units.

 

BTW, why can't you have very many snipers at once? Are you going to insert a pop cap on God Units?

[CorranSec]

Er. Did you read above, fergie? One shot kill for snipers against troopers and only troopers. Jedi would murder snipers.

You can't have many snipers at once because with many snipers, civs/players who use troopers lots would die. Painful, painful deaths.

An army of troopers backed up by a couple of anti-sniper detector mechs vs. a bigger army of snipers is going to die. Thus, we have a sniper limit.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Sniper limit would be too complecated. I believe that slow reload, movement and high cost will do the trick.

[simwiz2]

I think that a stealth unit that could massacre troops from long range and need to be found in a few seconds would be a micromanaging mess. You have a unit that will knock out a good chunk of your army even if you are killing it.

 

One-hit kills are BAD. They make using and countering the AC a micromanaging hell (yes, now THIS group of AAM's is the sacrifice group, so this SECOND group can come up and kill the AC's that have already used their rare, almost spell-like attack)! A high ROF and lower damage is much better for gameplay than a low ROF and one-hit kills.

[lukeiamyourdad]

People. nobody seems to have understood my last post.

I said this:

 

What if we made them hard to be targeted(hard for an enemy to land a shot on him)?

 

They are NOT cloaked! You can see them clearly. They just have some kind of very high evade rate that make them hard to land a shot on. But they are not cloaked! And OF COURSE THEY ARE COSTS A LOT!

[darthfergie]

Originally posted by CorranSec

Er. Did you read above, fergie? One shot kill for snipers against troopers and only troopers. Jedi would murder snipers.

You can't have many snipers at once because with many snipers, civs/players who use troopers lots would die. Painful, painful deaths.

An army of troopers backed up by a couple of anti-sniper detector mechs vs. a bigger army of snipers is going to die. Thus, we have a sniper limit.

 

Why would Jedi's murder snipers? They have no armor. Just a lightsaber...Jedi's are troopers too. Why not have many snipers? Make lots of snipers for your anti-infantry, back them up with some Mechs and a some healers and who cares about stealth anymore...those repeater troopers are gone in one shot. Those lightmechs are gone to with the sniper's ability to shoot through the small opening in the canopies:rolleyes: . ANTI-SNIPER DETECTING MECHS? WTF? We're making snipers a huge seperate unit class like JEDI! Jedi are so powerful they had to have a power unit to stop them, the bounty hunters. Well now we have to have ANTI-SNIPER DETECTING MECHS? Geez...way to much emphasis on snipers and way too much trouble to go to balance the game. So what...it's a God against everything but one unit...you'll now have to make sure you pack a bunch of those in every attacking force or you'll be broken apart. I mean infantry already have small value, but if you put a one shot one kill sniper out there, the infantry's value drops so low I would consider not making them! (like I made them anyway:rolleyes: )

 

So what is the tally on this worthless unit?

1) not stealth

2) longish range for a trooper

3) high evade values

4) Good against infantry

5) costs alot

6) maybe a special unit to counter it

 

that's a bit much to balance a unit...just a bit much...really I don't see the reason it should be added myself other then just sheer joy of "going commando" and that's been pretty much shot through already...