Admiral Vostok Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 It is not a fact that EU is proper Star Wars. I am not alone here. Plenty of Star Wars fans feel exactly the same way I do about EU. My idea is not "twisted", it is completely sane and supported by sound reasoning and the opinions of plenty of other Star Wars fans. EU is not Official. I have told you this many times. Go and look up the words "Accepted" and "Allowed" in the dictionary. Surprise, surprise, they have different definitions. EU is allowed by George Lucas. It is not accepted, official or in any way aligned with George Lucas' vision. I accept there is a number of Star Wars fans who enjoy EU as much as the movies, but suggesting they are as significant as the movies is just wrong. But let's not turn this into another EU vs Movies debate. They never get anywhere since you always ignore what I tell you anyway. I would not be entirely against adding the Yuuzhan Vong, the Imperial Remnant or the Rebel Alliance. But any others civs, EU or otherwise, I am against. The Smugglers Alliance and Hutt Cartel you've suggested wouldn't fit well in SWGB2. Those civs might do battle with each other, but you'll never see the two lining up their troopers and mechs on opposite sides of a grassy plain or a red desert or a snow-covered valley. Their warfare takes place in a different kind of way than the rest of the civs. They will never take part in a huge ground battle, although they may have the resources to do so it is just not their style of fighting. They don't fight on battlegrounds, so putting them in a game with Battlegrounds in the title makes no sense. So my civs would be: Must-have civs: 1. Galactic Empire 2. Rebel Alliance 3. Trade Federation 4. Gungan Grand Army 5. Royal Naboo Security Force 6. Galactic Republic 7. Confederacy of Independent Systems Civs that should probably be included but are not must-have: 8. Wookiees Civs that should be included if EU is included: 9. Imperial Remnant 10. New Republic 11. Yuuzhan Vong But 11 is a messy number so maybe get rid of Wookiees to have a round ten. I can't remember what your 14th civ was, could you remind me and tell me why you believe it should be included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Look. All the EU books that I have display the Star Wars logo on the cover. Bantam Spectra, Lucasbooks and all of those other publishers have the honour of being able to sell Star Wars books. They are official. Fan films, fan fiction and so on aren't official. I am not alone here either. Plenty of Star Wars fans may not like EU, but you cannot truthfully say that EU is not an official expansion of the Star Wars universe created in the movies. Lucasfilm Ltd authorized the first EU books ever written (the Thrawn series by Timothy Zahn), and gave Bantam Spectra a licence to publish Star Wars books. This decision was obviously one approved by George Lucas. If he disapproved, as you clearly do, he would not have allowed any books to be written in the first place! So the very continued existence of EU means that it is legitimate. You idea is twisted. You believe that certain new civs won't fit into a game that hasn't even been released yet simply because they are EU. That just plain doesn't make sense. Does it make sense to have a Random Map game where the Republic battles the Rebel Alliance? No. Does it make sense for the Rebel Alliance, a terrorist movement, to be fielding huge armies? No. The SU and HC I've suggested will be perfectly balanced and legitimate for any kind of battle in GB2. And they have taken part in large battles before. The Hutts have often hired huge armies of mercenaries to crush opponents. The Smugglers Union has its roots in the Battle of Nar Shadaar (sp), which was a pretty huge space battle. The SU also fielded a large force against a Remnant force escaping from the Maw Installation. And so on... So from a realism front, it's all good to go. But anyway, the most important thing is gameplay, and it's quite possible to balance those two civs perfectly. 14th civ: Um, come to think of it, I can't remember either. Perhaps there was no 14th civ. But anyway, here are my civs (not in any particular order): Galactic Empire Rebel Alliance Trade Federation Gungans- these titles like "Grand Army" or "Security Force" are just silly. We could call every civ "Army of Suchandsuch," but it doesn't achieve any purpose. Royal Naboo Galactic Republic Confederacy of Independent Systems/Separatist Movement (the latter sounds better, and is the term used in the movies) Wookiees Imperial Remnant New Republic Yuuzhan Vong Hutt Cartel Smugglers Union So that's 13. An unlucky number? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 EU is Star Wars, and Star Wars is Star Wars. anything that has Star Wars (and has is licsened by LFL) is Star Wars. Galactic Empire - Important civ, must stay Rebel Alliancec - Important civ, must stay Trade Federation - Important civ, must stay Gungans- Could do without........ Royal Naboo - Important civ, must stay Galactic Republic - Important civ, must stay Confederacy - Important civ, must stay Wookiees - if there's room leftover, I have recently been playing as them and they're ok... "Wookiee power!" Imperial Remnant - If include this, then NR must be in New Republic - - If include this, then IR must be in Yuuzhan Vong - MUST BE IN Hutt Cartel - Could care less, rather have Vong Smugglers Union - Could care less, rather have Vong That's 10 (included the wookiee and excluded the ones I care less about) I count of the ones I'd want. 10's a good numbe right? I like the Vong ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE_Vader_536 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 phreak have you missed the oh last 100 times everyone has said EU should not be considered part of swgb as it is not the officailly starwars. it is just some peoples view of what goes on afterwards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Yes I have, and I am a EU fan. I embrace the EU completely. IMO without EU, Star Wars would be dead. Ok, if the EU is not Star Wars and approved by Lucas, then all the Star Wars Games arn't Star Wars because Lucas didn't say, "Oh yes, I love the Star Wars Games." The games, believe it or not, are a part of the EU. Even GB/CC is part of it. How do you think they came up with the campaigns in them? I doubt GL had a script for them. Do they suck because it's EU? People may not like the EU because of their tastes, or some people are just diehard worshippers of the movies. EU = Star Wars, get used to it people ^_^ <- joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE_Vader_536 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 o dear god do we have to go through this again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 SWPhreak: I agree with your statements about EU. But what's wrong with the SU and HC? What with you being a huge EU fan, I thought you'd love them. SE_Vader: We're not going through anything, because you haven't put forward an argument. Feel free to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 I like all EU, I call everything that's not the movies EU. I don't use those PEU of EEU, or those stuff. What does SU of HC mean? So Unigue? High C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 This debate will never end! Can't we just live with each other?! EU is SW or not doesn't change the fact that adding EU to SWGB2 is neither better nor worse. It has both advantages and disadvantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Phreak: SU=Smugglers Union, HC=Hutt Cartel. I'm asking why you don't care much for those civs. Luke's dad: I'm not really arguing that EU is good- that's just a little off-topic debate. The real thing we're talking about is the inclusion of new civs. I want more, Vostok doesn't. Feel free to add your opinion... on my side, hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 ohhh duh! I just think that if I had to choose between them or other EU civs, I would pick the other (*cough*Vong*cough*). If they feel like making the High C, oops , Hutt Cartel and Smugglers union, I'm all for it, but not until the civs that have a more impact on EU is made first. Actually, now that I think about it, a SU civ wouldn't be bad. I jus read the Jedi Acadamy Trilogy.... again.. for the 6 or 7th time, and there is a Smugs Union. With MJ as a head member, and they did have a space force, so they could have a ground army. Like Shadow Mystrls (sp) and Trandoshans and lots more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Bahh!!!!I don't care a load of crap about this debate! It's pointless! No one ever agrees! Just wait for SWGB2 and you'll see if they'll add any EU civs. If they ever add EU civs, it will probably be in an x-pac... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 SWPhreak: Well, I think they have a pretty big impact on SW. Smugglers (mostly in the form of Talon Kaarde) figure into the majority of SW books, and the Hutts play a pretty big role in lots of SW stuff, so they're definitely the best choices (behind the Vong, New Rep and Imp Remnant). Luke's dad: Well, we're trying to figure stuff out about GB2, and hopefully offering our opinions to the devs. I think it's a worthwhile debate, just like all the other GB2 discussions on this forum. ...... well, most of them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Well I don't think the devs care a lot about a debate that has been going on for months... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I agree with Luke's Dad that we never agree. Okay, EU is "Official" in the sense it was given the go ahead by George Lucas. It is not "Official" in the sense that it is exactly how George Lucas envisioned his Universe. You say that Fan Films are not "Star Wars". Why not? They have been given just as much support as EU has where George Lucas is concerned. They are no different from EU. Yes, all Star Wars games are EU. Many contradict the movies just as much as the books and comics. Important part, made bold so everyone reads it: Phreak, I am not in any way suggesting EU "sucks". I am saying it is not continuous with the movies, so is merely an extension of them and not a proper part of them. Now, back to the topic at hand. Corran, how does it hurt to give the civs their proper names like "Gungan Grand Army" and "Royal Naboo Security Force"? I can't believe you're criticising me for that. I thought it was weird they gave the Empire it's proper title of "Galactic Empire", but for Clone Campaigns they left off the "Galactic" part of the Republic. So I'm using their proper names to avoid this inconsistency happening again. And I should point out that the only reason the name Confederacy was not mentioned in the movies is because until the meeting that Obi-Wan looks in on, the Confederacy didn't exist. They were only separatists before that, who in no way had a single united army. Phreak, I think the Gungans are more important than the Naboo, let alone the Wookiees. They had the larger armed force involved in the Battle of Naboo. To include Wookiees and not Gungans would just be weird. So substitute Gungans for Wookiees and I'd be happy with your lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 In bold for no other reason than... to be bold: I didn't say you said EU sucked. And about the gungs vs Wooks: I could really care less about which one. I just chose the wooks cuz I liked going around in games and screaming "Wookiee Power!" and then either kicking sum1 elses @$$..... or get mine kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I took your comment about Star Wars games: "Do they suck because they're EU?" To mean that you thought that I thought that EU sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 oh, well I was just trying to make a point about EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I disagree. Sometimes we agree, but in this we generally never agree, apart from when we do. Were the fan films given the 'go ahead' by GL? Were they officially licenced by Lucasfilms? No. So fan films, fan fiction etc aren't official SW, although they may be good stories (or really funny, in the case of Troops). Okay, so EU might not be perfect in GL's eyes. But does that mean that it's not SW? No. As for the proper names: It's okay to call a civilisation by it's name (eg Galactic Republic, CIS) but you don't call them an army. Do we say "Imperial Armed Forces" or "Rebel Commando Unit"? No. So it's the Gungans. And it may not happen to be their Grand Army or their Security Force in many situations (would a security force partake in war, would an army farm?) so they're the Gungans and the Royal Naboo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Civ name is the least of our worries... Arguing about that is just stupid and pointless. Fan films are not are not official but EU is? Neither are truly, I MEAN IN THE CORE, SW... Althought entertaining, they are not and should not be taken as SW facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 They are not part of EU or Star Wars in anyway. They're just something that Star Wars Fans wanted to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Yeah, what Luke's Dad said. Okay, so EU might not be perfect in GL's eyes. But does that mean that it's not SW? No. Well by definition, yes, that does mean it is not Star Wars. Star Wars is George Lucas' story, no-one elses. If it isn't perfect in his eyes, then yes, that does mean it is not Star Wars. Okay, taking the gathering resources part into consideration I guess the names they have are fine. Except it should be Galactic Republic and Confederacy of Independent Systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 EU IS NOT STAR WARS CANON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lucasfilm has already said that EU is 'a window onto the Star Wars universe, some are just a little foggier than others'. The fact remains though, it is NOT canon. You may ask 'well then why does it have to be approved by lucasfilm'? The answer of course, is so that it can have the words 'Star Wars' and 'Jedi' etc in it, thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 You know what.... we should not go into the whole EU vesus "True/Cannon" Star Wars cuz you'll never change my mind, and I can't change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 So you believe EU to be canon? By it's very definition, canon is ONLY THE MOVIES. EU can be considered true, but it is by no means canon. I'm not just saying this because of my stance on EU, it is a fact. Canon is the movies and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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