Official SWGB 2 GB.com Thread

[Darth Windu]

vostok - again, i say there is no difference. Although 100% unique civs would be great, i dont think its possible or even desirable. A worker is a worker, why is having bonus' applied to them a bad thing? As i said it reduces comp requirements, and especially in the case of workers, unique sets arent needed.

 

luke - you are right, and you are wrong. Every civ gets a Trooper, Rifle Trooper and Jedi/Sith. Why? A trooper is a generic unit, give some guy a gun and he's a trooper, the Rifle trooper is required for all because it is an anti-mech, anti-air unit, and there was a big feeling that every civ should get Jedi or Sith.

However each civ's infantry have different abilities, strengths, weaknesses, and 2-3 unique infantry units as well.

Also every civ has 100% unique mech and air units.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Actually, it can be unique. All troopers can have diffrent hp, abilities, strenght and weaknesses while being unique.

Look at StarCraft for example.

Zealots, Marines and Hydralisks are all considered ''troopers''.

They are all different and have different abilities, weaknesses, strenght etc.

And that's unique.

 

It's doable with SWGB.

Wookiee main troopers can be melee(beserkers).

Gungan main troopers can have those electric blue balls(forgot the name) and be good vs mechs.

Rebel main troopers could be lightly armed and fast.

Imperial stormtrooper can be slow but heavily armed and costly.

 

 

That's more unique.

[Darth Windu]

Bloody hell Luke, did you even look at my idea?????

 

The trooper is listed as a 'generic' unit becuase all troopers do basically the main function. HOWEVER as i have already pointed out, if you had looked in the 'Infantry' section at the bottom of my idea, you would see that, for example, the Federations trooper are fast, but with little armour and arent that powerful, while the Republic's troops are very powerful, have reasonable armour but are the slowest of all infantry.

 

As i have said, the 'generic' sets you all seem to be obsessed about are a TEMPLATE. These units then have various mutipliers added to, and subtracted from, them which makes them unique units.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Yeah well I may have missed that part.

 

Nevertheless, when I looked at it, it seemed all pretty generic(although like you say stuff have been subtracted etc etc...)

 

Nevertheless, all the civs have a regular trooper, a rifle, a commander and a repeater.

Generic?

 

Unique in this case would be all civs have different types(with somewhat the exception of regular troopers).

One civ may have a rifle and another something else.

 

Rebs and Imps might have repeater type unit while Naboo and gungans won't.

[Darth Windu]

Luke - first of all, just wanted to appolagise for losing my cool.

 

Now back to the idea, you are actually wrong here. In terms of infantry, each civ gets-

1. Trooper - guy / girl with gun

2. Rifle Trooper - anti-mech and anti-aircraft

3. Commander / Officer - so that troops can do things like ambush

4. Sith / Jedi - coz everyone wants them to be generic

 

In addition to this, the civs get semi-unqiue units, like the-

1. Plasma Droid - Confederacy and Federation

2. Sniper - Rebels and Naboo

3. Repeater Trooper - Rebels, Empire and Wookiee's

 

Plus they also get totally unique units-

1. Tauntaun Cavalry - Rebels

2. Botham Spy - Rebels

3. Grapple Droid - Federation

4. Gungan Kaduu Cavalry - Naboo

5. Berserker - Wookiees

6. Bomb / Explosive Droid - Hutts

7. Bounty Hunter - Hutts

8. ARC Trooper - Republic

9. Jedi Master - Republic

10. Dewback Cavalry - Empire

11. Geonosian Warrior - Confederacy

 

Each civ also gets various numbers of Mechs, Aircraft and Ships.

[lukeiamyourdad]

You have to admit tho that your ships are totally generic.

 

Rifle troopers should be able to shoot air only.

Keep another option for an anti-mech trooper.

[Darth Windu]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

1. You have to admit tho that your ships are totally generic.

 

2. Rifle troopers should be able to shoot air only.

Keep another option for an anti-mech trooper.

 

1. Absolutely. This is because i really dont have any ideas about what ships should be able to do, apart from the obvious Utility Trawler, Frigate and Cruiser. I would also like to point out that from the start of this i have been asking for ideas from anyone about ships, and yet i still havent recieved any feedback concerning these units.

 

2. I disagree for a few reasons. The anti-armour + anti-aircraft combo worked well in the 'Command & Conquer' series, and really i think if you have a missile trooper they should be able to attack both realistically, and also i think it makes the game more fun in that you dont have to build 2 different units, one of which is completely defenceless against ground units.

[CorranSec]

Okay. Well, there are plenty of ideas out there for ships, both in the form of class templates and specific uniques. I'm sure we talked about that earlier in this thread.

Anyway, there are plenty of things ships can do. To begin with, there's submersibles. I was considering making all of the Gungan ships subs, with selected subs among the other civs.

There are also many uses for ships that you haven't considered. There's transports, for when you don't have air yet and you want to cross water (please don't say that you want ground transports to transform into water transports..... this is not RoN). There's special anti-air ships, which is a good one to make a sub, because then they can pop up and strike passing aircraft, then flee. There's speedy ships (a faster but weaker frigate), sensor ships (detectors that can also drop buoys), pirate ships (which can take over enemy ships- this is probably suited for TF/Confed), trapper ships (which can lay traps eg mines), construction ships (some buildings can be built in the sea by some civs), and so on.

[eizo131]

ummm ships......

Okay, some civs should have ships that can submerge and stay on top of the water.

 

This has been discussed many times before: most jedi/troopers MUST be aliens,

 

the rebels were first only humans (I think) but then they got soem other races to help out...

 

the republic had all types of diffrent jedi...

 

there must be a way to make something that can shoot at air and ground targets without being too powerful. Maybe something like the AA-tanks in advance wars?

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu - as long as you're admitting that your ideas are Generic Unit Set based and not Unique Unit Set based I have no problem fundamentally with them. There are a few things I would change but then I'd have a Unique Unit Set model to start with.

 

Corran - good ideas on those ships. I see most if not all civs having at least one submersible, but the Gungans should have the most.

 

eizo - Humans should still make up the most part of the Rebels. The Rebellion was a movement by primarily humans against a human tyranny. Making most of the Rebels aliens (which they weren't, there were only very few aliens) losing the symbolism, and it turns into a racial war rather than a political ideal war. So keep the number of humans as they are in the Rebels.

[joesdomain]

I am leaving this forum. No star wars strategy games are going to be released this year for PC and no star wars playstation 2 games are coming out so lucasarts will not be getting my money this year. bye to the regular forum members who know me.

[Darth Windu]

Corran - well at the moment with ships i have all Naboo ships being sub's, and the Wookiee's having an anti-air cruiser. However as i said i need more idea's to make the naval sections more unique.

 

Also i would prefer the RoN transport system because i think it's better. You dont have to build transports but you still cant cross water until a shipyard is built, and the individual transports and very weak.

 

Vostok - its not a generic template, its more of a hybrid. As i said each civ gets (at the moment) more or less generic ships, some generic infantry, some semi-unique infantry, completely unique infantry, completely unique mechs and completely unique aircraft.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I think the rebs should be the only ones with a ground transport that can cross water. Of course it would only be available later in the game.

 

If ships are gonna be subs, some fighters should have stealth detection systems.

 

And joes seems to be...welll gone...

Some people can't discuss of anything else...

Goodbye bud...

[Admiral Vostok]

Aw, joe left. We shall miss his spam.

 

Windu - There is much to be said for a hybrid model, and to be honest I think LA will use some form of hybrid if they make SWGB2. They work quite well, as AoM shows.

 

Here's my idea for transports, which I think adds both realism and a sense of uniqueness between civs:

Transports can carry a certain amount of population, depending on the population costs for transportable units (I'm assuming we have multiple pop costs for larger units here). Transports are also not able to carry any type of ground unit: some transports can only carry infantry (this includes troopers, Jedi, Bounty Hunters, Workers and anything else like that), some can only carry mechs (by mechs I mean both "mechs" and "heavy weapons", I see them being assimilated into the same category), and some can carry both infantry and mechs. Here's some examples of how different civs transportation/population systems work:

 

Trade Federation

Battle Droid - trooper, pop cost 1

Droideka - trooper, pop cost 2 (note it counts as a trooper not a mech)

Multiple Troop Transport (MTT) - mech, pop cost 5. Can transport 20 infantry (either 20 Battle Droids, or 10 Droidekas, or a mixture such as 10 Battle Droids and 5 Droidekas).

Landing Craft - air, pop cost 10. Can transport (slowly) 40 infantry or mech (either 40 Battle Droids, or 20 Droidekas, or 8 MTTs, or a mixture such as 2 MTTs, 20 Battle Droids and 5 Droidekas).

 

Galactic Republic

Clone Trooper - trooper, pop cost 1

Jedi Knight - Jedi, pop cost 1

All Terrain Tactical Enforcer (AT-TE) - mech, pop cost 5. Can transport 5 infantry (5 Clone Troopers, or 5 Jedi Knights, or a mixture such as 3 Clone Troopers and 2 Jedi Knights).

Gunship - air, pop cost 3. Can transport 5 infantry (5 Clone Troopers, or 5 Jedi Knights, or a mixture such as 3 Clone Troopers and 2 Jedi Knights).

Carrier Gunship - air, pop cost 3. Can transport 5 mech (1 AT-TE).

Note if an AT-TE is transporting any units, you will not be able to load it on a Carrier Gunship (as the Carrier Gunship can only carry mechs, not infantry). Although this is not entirely realistic, it is better for gameplay purposes and does not make the transport system overly complex.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - that seems a little complicated, having 3 different sea transports and all.

 

You are correct in the different pop slot system, for example for the same number of pop slots used you can have either 1 AT-AT or 8 Stormtroopers. However i think i single type of transport (except the Republic's Gunship + Dropship) is preferable, but of course use the pop slot system to allow for different amounts of large, medium and small mechs and infantry.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I think the AT-TE should be able to carry more then a gunship.

 

It depends. You can have air transports(maybe one for mech and one for trooper, the trooper one being available earlier then the mech one) but only one sea transport(available at mid-game).

While ground transports would be the slow moving assault mech type(AT-AT, AT-TE, MTT, etc.) with the exception of the Rebs who could have a speedy troop transport that can go over water(you have to research it) and a big sea transport for both but it moves at a slower speed and of course can't go on the ground.

 

The Imps could have an imperial lander as a mech transport and a lambda shuttle for troopers/workers whatever.

 

The Naboo can have the royal starship(I don't think this is exact in terms of realism but anyway.) as a troop transport.

[Darth Windu]

As i said, i really dont think that giving civ's multiple air and/or sea transports is a good idea, apart from the Republic having the Gunship and Dropship. In my opinion all it will do is complicate the game and make it more micro-intensive and a whole lot less fun to play.

 

NOTE: I have just added 3 more units to my idea for SWGB2, these are-

 

1. Forest Ambush Tank (Wookiees) - when stationary, tank cloaks and appears as a tree to enemy forces and is not automatically targetted unless the tank reveals itself by firing, good anti-infantry and light mechs

 

2. APT (Federation) - Armoured Plamsa Tank, a modification of the AAT that replaces all weapons with a forward-mounted, very powerful, short-ranged plamsa-thrower - excellent vs large groups of infantry and some buildings, instantly de-garrisons any building

 

3. Combat Speeder (Rebels) - slightly slower but better armoured version of the Naboo Flash Speeder

 

PS: I would like some opinions as to whether this Rebel mech should be as listed, or a fast troop transport.

I would also like any idea's for a unique building for the Confederacy and Wookiees

[Admiral Vostok]

The different types of transports is another way I'd like to add uniqueness. Note that not every civ has three transports... that would be dumb, not to mention generic. In my example, the Trade Federation has one air tranport (Landing Craft), while the Republic has two air transports (Gunship and Carrier Gunship). No civ will have three, but a few may have two. The same can be said for Ground transports and Sea transports.

 

At this point I might bring up the idea of transports being able to attack. Now I don't want another Gunship Thread, but obviously to get any resemblence to the feel of the Republic at War, you need to have Gunships that can attack.

 

I personally don't see a problem. Assault Mechs are transports, and they can attack, so why not a the gunship? Obviously it's price would reflect it's abilities, so I see no problem at all.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Assault mechs are sloe however. But rgiht gunships should be able to fire. I think of them as choppers more then normal transports.

 

Windu- Your forest ambush tank seems fine. But what happens when you play on Tatooine or Hoth?

APT-It seems a bit overpowered. i would rather have a regular ATT.

Combat Speeder- Seems just like an upgrade and no it shouldn't transport. It would be better to have a exclusive mech that can transport units both on water an ground.

[Darth Windu]

With the Gunship, in my idea it can attack as i see the role of the gunship not just dropping off troops, but providing fire support for them as well.

 

Vostok - i guess we're just going to agree to disagree. BTW the carrier gunship is known as the Dropship (also in my idea)

 

Luke - i 'm going to alter the Forest Ambush Tank and just call it the Ambush Tank. Also it would have altered stats that mean it blends in with it's surrounding environment, so that it is still usable on tatooine and hoth.

 

Also, the APT would have different strengths and weeknesses than the AAT. It would be far worse vs mechs, but would be better vs dug-in infantry and also as an assault tank to clear out enemy occupied buildings.

 

With the combat speeder its not an upgrade, just a rebel unit. Also the question was that the rebels will get 1 mech, so what should its stats be?

[lukeiamyourdad]

Really fast with nice range, medium firepower but low armor and hp. Always that.

 

As for APT if it's an upgrade I say no but if it's another unit than maybe...I have to think about that.

[Darth Windu]

Well Luke the APT is a different unit to the AAT. You get both if you play as the Trade Federation.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Then why not have it? However, I don't think it should de-garrisson buildings. Overpowered.

[Admiral Vostok]

Windu, here's what I think of your new units:

 

1. This is an incredible rip-off of the mirage tank in Red Alert 2. Not only that, it goes against the Wookiee's style of warfare. They are not stealthy and sneaky, they are big, growling, walking carpets! In conclusion: no.

 

2. As a Star Wars Purist, my major problem with this is "why wasn't it in the movies?" Surely a tank like that would have been great against all the Gungans. My Puritanism can only conclude that it can not exist. In conclusion: no.

 

3. This I don't mind. I think it would make a good transport, though only for small numbers of troops (perhaps 5). I see it as sort of a trooper-support unit, which by itself would be crap but combined with troopers would be effective. In conclusion: yes.

[Darth Windu]

Vostok - im just gonna start off by saying that you cant say 'no' to any of my ideas because in the end, its my idea. What i am asking for is your opinion, so it would then be better to say 'i dont think it would be good' or something like that. Now-

 

1. As i said with the game engine debate, i think that lucasarts should take things from the great RTS', RA2 being one of them. Also, who are you to say what the Wookiee's style of fighting is? In my opinion, the Wookiees would likely be a planet-dwelling force, like the Naboo, and would try to take advantage of their natural habitat, which would have great opportunities for ambush.

 

2. Again i disagree. In 'Attack of the Clones' there was a deleted sequence in which Clone Troopers on Imperial Speeder Bikes rush into battle throwing grenades. However since this isnt in the film, doesnt that mean we should delete that unit from the game? Vostok, you have to realise that there is a limit to what you can take from the movies, and sooner or later you have to invent your own units.

I would also like to point out that this unit has a strong foundation in real life. During WW2 (upon which Star Wars combat is based) a large majority of tanks were modified to be flamethrowers. Hence the same could happen in Star Wars.