Europe

[wardz]

I know, hes his little poodle..

 

Good Dawg!

 

 

- W

[Divine Spirit]

Originally posted by Clem

 

ur confusing europe with britain there obi

 

oh and wardz ... we dont go between ... USA says jump and Tony says " how high"

 

GRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

what? you mean an american is confusing europe with one big country?!?!! someone call the YMCA!

[Pad]

i think that if the us doesnt watch out, europe will become a bigger ecomical power

[Darklighter]

Originally posted by Padanime

i think that if the us doesnt watch out, europe will become a bigger ecomical power

 

I think you might be right there Pad;)But the American's aren't gonna like that...let's split the Swamp in half once again:Dlol

[starwarsman77]

If Europe were suddenly to explode, where would all we americans go for vacation? Paris is my favorite city in the world!

I just don't like how you can drive from one country to another in a matter of hours.

[Val Nathras]

I prefer to lurk on these boards, but sometimes you just gotta speak.

 

It seems that the majority of Europeans really, really hate Americans. That being the case, why the He!! do we keep calling each other "friend" or "ally"? Show of hands... How many people would remain "friends" with someone that kept kicking you in the nuts, spitting in your food and calling you stupid, lazy and fat? Even in jest, repeatedly? You people need to be careful what you wish for. It isn't a very big leap from insults to outright brawling in the streets and it sounds like you all are advocating that we eventually become enemies.

 

We buffoons over here in America will just sit here and sadly watch as the once great nations of Europe disappear forever into the E.U. superstate. By the way, in America, I'm considered a racial minority. The only time I have ever experienced any form of racial hostility was during my four year stay in Europe (U.K., Germany and France). First I was harrassed due to my race, then I really got it once they heard my American accent. Then, it was like I morphed into Satan himself once I revealed that I was from (gasp) TEXAS!!! Boy, did that revelation draw a crowd. God himself could not compel me to ever return to Europe for any reason.

 

So, on the topic of Europe bashing; based upon my personal experiences, you guys are a bunch of elitist, closet bigots. I'm thinking that once the E.U. ball really gets rolling, you guys are gonna experience some nasty racial disharmony as your borders dissolve and my darker-skinned brethren start invading your shores in greater numbers.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Val Nathras

It seems that the majority of Europeans really, really hate Americans. That being the case, why the He!! do we keep calling each other "friend" or "ally"? Show of hands... How many people would remain "friends" with someone that kept kicking you in the nuts, spitting in your food and calling you stupid, lazy and fat? Even in jest, repeatedly? You people need to be careful what you wish for. It isn't a very big leap from insults to outright brawling in the streets and it sounds like you all are advocating that we eventually become enemies.

 

I never implied I hate Americans. I implied that I find their current president, and their obnoxious foreign policy a little bit ignorant and pompous some times. Hate the country, don't hate the people living in it. There are many cool people from America on these boards, and you cannot judge America based on them, anymore than you can judge Europe based on your unfortunate rasicm. I don't think Denmark has a great foreign policy (I hate the immigrant attitude here), and I can easily see faults with other European countries as well. America just needs to be careful, since they tend to dictate things so much (given they are a superpower) and have a lot of things to say.

 

We buffoons over here in America will just sit here and sadly watch as the once great nations of Europe disappear forever into the E.U. superstate.

 

EU is not intended to be a super state. I don't think you can compare the European countries with the united States and EU with USA. USA had the benefit of starting from scratch (amongst others) - EU will at most be a federation of some sort, it will take a long time to get rid of the skewed opinions every European country has of the others.

 

Thanks for posting, you should do that more often

[Val Nathras]

Originally posted by Cjais

 

I never implied I hate Americans. I implied that I find their current president, and their obnoxious foreign policy a little bit ignorant and pompous. Hate the country, don't hate the people living in it. There are many cool people from America on these boards, and you cannot judge America based on them, anymore than you can judge Europe based on your unfortunate rasicm.

 

So what's the problem with the country? Our dirt not the right color or something? Too many trees? Rivers too wide? Mountains too high? Canyons too grand? Skies too blue?

 

A country is an entity composed of a group of peoples. You cannot separate the two and still have a country. If you hate the country, you hate the people. The only exception to the rule is if the people have no choice as to the directon of the country (i.e. Iraq, China, North Korea, Sudan, etc.). People like that are only slaves yearning to be freed. Don't they deserve that freedom? Or is the price to free them more than you are willing to pay?

 

Ignorant and pompous. How intolerant of you. I bet you liked Clinton too, a proven pervert. I voted for Bush and completely approve of our foreign policy. Does that make me and everyone like me ignorant and pompous? Do you only object to our foreign policy because we refuse to ask for anyones permission? People of my ideology would rather be left alone, but if we need to do something, we won't be constrained to do it half-assed like some people seem to prefer. Is that too arrogant?

Or do you just hate Bush because he happens to have a speech impediment and is religious to boot? Or because he's from TEXAS (gasp)! Again, how intolerant of you.

 

 

 

EU is not intended to be a super state. I don't think you can compare the European countries with the united States and EU with USA. USA had the benefit of starting from scratch (amongst others) - EU will at most be a federation of some sort, it will take a long time to get rid of the skewed opinions every European country has of the others.

 

Thanks for posting, you should do that more often

 

You make it sound like everything was prepared in advance for us. No hard work or effort involved at all. As for the E.U. thing...what you think you are approving of is not the same as what you end up getting. Beware the promises of politicians. I like the British, love the Spanish and respect the Italians. And so forth. I would hate to see the peoples of the Continent turned into slaves of the state over the next 50 years. Minions of a socialist empire. Not unlike the hamsters I keep in a cage. Nurtured, well-fed and cared for. And nothing more than pets. Loved, of course, but still pets.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Val Nathras

So what's the problem with the country? Our dirt not the right color or something? Too many trees? Rivers too wide? Mountains too high? Canyons too grand? Skies too blue?

 

What has your landscape to do with this debate?

 

A country is an entity composed of a group of peoples. You cannot separate the two and still have a country. If you hate the country, you hate the people.

 

Not so. The government of USA is responsible for everything it's citizens do, while the citizens are in no way personally responsible for what the government does.

 

The people of Germany are not to be held responsible for what their government once did - I do not hold the average Joe American responsible for what Bush is doing.

 

Ignorant and pompous. How intolerant of you. I bet you liked Clinton too, a proven pervert.

 

What has Clinton being a pervert anything to do with his ability as a president? Nothing. He could practice S/M with Levinsky for all I care.

 

I voted for Bush and completely approve of our foreign policy. Does that make me and everyone like me ignorant and pompous?

 

Why should it?

 

Or do you just hate Bush because he happens to have a speech impediment and is religious to boot? Or because he's from TEXAS (gasp)! Again, how intolerant of you.

 

I do not hate Bush. I find him silly for many reasons. Clinton did not fall under any of those.

 

I would hate to see the peoples of the Continent turned into slaves of the state over the next 50 years. Minions of a socialist empire. Not unlike the hamsters I keep in a cage. Nurtured, well-fed and cared for. And nothing more than pets. Loved, of course, but still pets.

 

Yes. The "cradle-to-grave" welfare system is the great evil. We're just minions of a socialist dictatorship with no freedoms at all. Hey, I can't even buy guns - must mean I'm just a little pet to the state, without abillity to act or decide on important things.

 

See? I can make ridiculous overstatements as well.

[Val Nathras]

You were the one that said you hated the country without hating the people, so you tell me why is the landscape part of the debate? Unless you are referring to the government? In that case, the government is not "the country". People are responsible for the leaders they elect, the government they form through their choices. If I and others elect a tyrant responsible for the death of millions, then "we" the country are responsible as well, "we" are the tyrants if we allow that government to continue. As far as I know, weren't the Germans of that era cheering their government on? The character of our leaders determines the ultimate course our nations will follow and that character is determined by the people voting for that leader. Our previous leader turned out to be an irresponsible child, yearning for attention and personal gratification. Our current leader is also imperfect in many ways, yet he takes responsibility for his actions. In comparison, I prefer the more honorable of the two. Be specific on why you dislike Bush. Calling summon a moron without backing it up with hard data is simply childish. Calling someone stupid because of their speech problems is no different than saying I'm lazy because I'm Spanish.

 

And as for the ridiculous overstatement part, I was being sincere. I don't want to see Europe ending up like China. I did say 50 years from now after all. The last thing I want to see is a frenchman standing beneath the remains of the Eiffel tower, defiantly drinking the last drop from a bottle of banned wine and hurling its empty remains at the tank about to run him over ala Tiananmen Square.

 

So don't call me ridiculous. You are just proving my opinion that debating someone from the left will always end in personal attacks by the left.

 

And I don't own a gun either. Because I choose not to.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Val Nathras

You were the one that said you hated the country without hating the people, so you tell me why is the landscape part of the debate?

 

I never said I hated the America, the country, or Bush, its president, or its landscape for that matter.

 

then "we" the country are responsible as well, "we" are the tyrants if we allow that government to continue. As far as I know, weren't the Germans of that era cheering their government on? The character of our leaders determines the ultimate course our nations will follow

 

The people who chose the president have failed as their duty of controlling who gets in the office. They are not to be held personally responsible for what that president does after he's in the office.

 

and that character is determined by the people voting for that leader.

 

No. The character isn't determined in any way, the people simply elect him based on his (hollow) promises. They can't know how he'll run things once he's in.

 

Be specific on why you dislike Bush. Calling summon a moron without backing it up with hard data is simply childish. Calling someone stupid because of their speech problems is no different than saying I'm lazy because I'm Spanish.

 

I have not called Bush a moron or stupid, or even said that he has speech problems. Stop making these silly accusations.

 

I find his declaration of "War against terrorism" ignorant and pompous.

 

And as for the ridiculous overstatement part, I was being sincere. I don't want to see Europe ending up like China. I did say 50 years from now after all. The last thing I want to see is a frenchman standing beneath the remains of the Eiffel tower, defiantly drinking the last drop from a bottle of banned wine and hurling its empty remains at the tank about to run him over ala Tiananmen Square.

 

You weren't being sincere. You are assuming this will happen, because we currently have this socialistic welfare system (which the entirety of Europe has, of course) - You think your political system is somehow superior because this would never happen in your country.

 

So don't call me ridiculous.

 

I never called you ridiculous.

 

You are just proving my opinion that debating someone from the left will always end in personal attacks by the left.

 

Now, who is attacking, and who is debating?

[starwarsman77]

Go, Val

[Wacky_Baccy]

Go Cjais!

Posted by StormHammer

You shouldn't go by land size...but by demographics. If you add up the populations of all European member states, it has more than twice the population of the USA...probably approaching 600 million or more.

I already did that, among other things, but I didn't want to frighten our cousins across the pond with the large numbers I ended up with

Trying to create a unifying structure across such disparate regions and cultures is a socio-economic nightmare. The wealth of dialects is also a considerable barrier.

True, but it's also an asset... If we persevere, it could pay off big time - in some respects, it already has, of course

With so many individual influences on doctrines and policies, it's frankly amazing that we've come this far along the road...and it's hardly surprising why so many factions within the EU fight tooth and nail over new policies and policy amendments. There is a danger that the whole system as it stands could become unwieldy and simply come crashing down like a house of cards.

I agree... It needs re-structuring... But will they do it?

So I don't think we'll see the United States Of Europe any time soon.

I expect it in my lifetime... ^_^

Besides, if you abbreviate it, it spells USE...hmmm...

Nah, we'd keep "EU"

 

And besides, I like the EU flag, so we can't change the name

[Val Nathras]

Originally posted by Cjais

 

I never said I hated the America, the country, or Bush, its president, or its landscape for that matter.

 

 

I refer you to:

 

Hate the country, don't hate the people living in it.

 

The people who chose the president have failed as their duty of controlling who gets in the office. They are not to be held personally responsible for what that president does after he's in the office.

 

As long as he is in office and continues to violate the trust of the people, and the people do not REMOVE him from office, the people are also responsible for his later actions. WE are responsible for our government, like it or not.

 

No. The character isn't determined in any way, the people simply elect him based on his (hollow) promises. They can't know how he'll run things once he's in.

 

Words are hollow. By their actions you shall know them.

 

I have not called Bush a moron or stupid, or even said that he has speech problems. Stop making these silly accusations.

 

I find his declaration of "War against terrorism" ignorant and pompous.

 

Silly accusations? Alright then, the majority of insults directed at Bush are related to his malapropisms. People that insult a person for problems that cannot be controlled are bigots and nothing will ever change my mind on that. The only difference between calling someone a moron and calling them ignorant is ... hmm there is no difference. My mistake.

 

So, now his statements are "ignorant and pompous" rather than the man himself being stupid or moronic (which can be synomous with ignorant and pompous). Is there somehing inherently wrong with defeating terrorism? What's a few thousand people dead every year anyway, is that it? His declaration is nothing more than "politician speak" for we won't let you kill our citizens anymore. Do you have a problem with that? Or do you think murder is a legitimate form of political expression?

 

 

You weren't being sincere. You are assuming this will happen, because we currently have this socialistic welfare system (which the entirety of Europe has, of course) - You think your political system is somehow superior because this would never happen in your country.

 

Don't you expect the worst? Based upon your comments on Bush, I assumed that you did.

 

I thought I was being sincere. Apparently you know me better than I know myself. I was predicting, based upon the cold, hard facts available in the History section in any library. We also have elements of socialism (welfare, public schools, etc). It is irrelevant to the debate. I was speaking to what socialism may produce when unrestrained. Nowhere did I mention today's system of European government. Nowhere did I state ours was a better way (there is no "better way", only preferred ways). Our system unrestrained can also lead to paths of destruction. Both systems have their pluses and minuses. Our systems together are well balanced and complimentary currently, IMHO.

 

 

I never called you ridiculous.

 

Now, who is attacking, and who is debating?

 

Just a warning sign, to stop the inevitable trend. My ridiculous statements are not to be confused with my silly accusations. Let me guess, next time it will be hysterical denunciations.

[C'jais]

I refer you to:

 

 

Hate the country, don't hate the people living in it.

 

That was an example, not directed at America in any way. I'm sorry if you misunderstood it.

 

As long as he is in office and continues to violate the trust of the people, and the people do not REMOVE him from office, the people are also responsible for his later actions. WE are responsible for our government, like it or not.

 

Yes. But you cannot be held personally responsible for what the government does. Like it or not, you are not living in a pure democracy, where the people truly votes on everything. You are living in a parlamentary.

 

This debate is about whether you're entitled to go up to an American (or other nationality) and say that he sucks because his country sucks. You can't connect the two. While a country may be objectively sucking, you can't extend that to a citizen of the same country.

 

Words are hollow. By their actions you shall know them.

 

With you so far.

 

However, bear in mind that words (communicating) in a lot of contexts aren't hollow. Hitler inspired millions by simply doing this, and we got to know his ideals pretty well.

 

 

People that insult a person for problems that cannot be controlled are bigots and nothing will ever change my mind on that.

 

But I didn't do that, so why are you bringing this up?

 

The only difference between calling someone a moron and calling them ignorant is ... hmm there is no difference.

 

There's a big difference. Check your dictionary.

 

So, now his statements are "ignorant and pompous" rather than the man himself being stupid or moronic (which can be synomous with ignorant and pompous).

 

In some weird scenarios, yes - but certainly not in their original, true sense, and certainly not what I implied.

 

Is there somehing inherently wrong with defeating terrorism?

 

Not at all. Waging a war on it, is impossible, and won't defeat anything.

 

Viewing WTC as anything other than a terrorist attack is ignorant.

 

Don't you expect the worst? Based upon your comments on Bush, I assumed that you did.

 

What comments about Bush? I went for the ball, not the man.

 

I was speaking to what socialism may produce when unrestrained.

 

Sorry. Didn't quite catch you there.

 

Our systems together are well balanced and complimentary currently, IMHO.

 

Compimentary in what way?

 

My ridiculous statements are not to be confused with my silly accusations.

 

I am perfectly clear on that, nor have I ever done it. Two seperate things they are, yes.

[whitedragon]

Originally posted by Cjais

This thread is dedicated to the Americans who so far have missed the chance to vent their cultural prejudices - until now they've only taken flak from some very vocal anti-Americans...

 

Go on. Let it out. All of it.

 

 

If the need for a proper topic arises, here's one:

 

What's your take on Europe and the European Union? Can the European countries be considered as equal to the different states of America, or should they never have been involved in one big union in the first place?

 

Can Europe become as great an economical superpower as the US?

i choose not to say anything. i will not sink to there level. if i did i would loose some friends and i will never say another bad thing about another country even if they deserve it because i will not have my country wrongly labled any more. i will not let people say we have big egos, i will not let people that we give other countrys the finger, and i will not let people disregard the fact that ive never seen any americans make fun of another persons country like boss did in the "take that america thread".

 

and thats all i have to say

[Val Nathras]

Originally posted by Cjais

 

That was an example, not directed at America in any way. I'm sorry if you misunderstood it.

 

Seemed pretty clear to me. Simple and to the point. Hate the country, don't hate the people. Got it.

 

 

Yes. But you cannot be held personally responsible for what the government does.

 

I can because that is the way it was originally intended. And it is also a question of choice. If the people refuse to be responsible for their government, then they must live with the consequence of their inaction.

 

This debate is about whether you're entitled to go up to an American (or other nationality) and say that he sucks because his country sucks. You can't connect the two. While a country may be objectively sucking, you can't extend that to a citizen of the same country.

 

Therein lies the difference between us. We take the insult personally because in our eyes, we the people are the country. I would never insult another country. Pity some? Yes. Hate some? No. Indulge in a little teasing? Absolutely. For example, some Texans love to pick on the French. But nowhere near as much as we love to joke about Californians.

 

With you so far.

 

However, bear in mind that words (communicating) in a lot of contexts aren't hollow. Hitler inspired millions by simply doing this, and we got to know his ideals pretty well.

 

Hitler's words were supplemented by his actions. Together they inspired his nation. And Hitler was not the only problem in the world during that time, so let's not pick on the Germans by default.

 

 

But I didn't do that, so why are you bringing this up?

It was a generalization meant to convey a point relevant to the topic of the original statement.

 

There's a big difference. Check your dictionary.

 

In some weird scenarios, yes - but certainly not in their original, true sense, and certainly not what I implied.

 

 

They can be construed to mean a person is basically stupid and incapable of performing the simplest of tasks.

In everyday conversation, the specific definition of a word can be made irrelevant based upon the context in which that word is used. In other words, we hear what we want to hear.

 

 

Not at all. Waging a war on it, is impossible, and won't defeat anything.

 

Viewing WTC as anything other than a terrorist attack is ignorant.

 

Many things throughout history were deemed impossible. Until proven otherwise, of course. Does that mean that the war against poverty and globalizaton are also impossible? And let's not forget the sound barrier, the moon, the Berlin Wall, etc. I believe that everything is possible until proven otherwise.

 

I view the attack on the WTC as an act of war. Indeed, a great many Americans feel that way. Are we also ignorant?

 

Treating these terrorist actions as something we must live with and dismissing them out of hand is insane. And more than a little insulting to the victims. Does your hatred run so deep? Let go of your anger.

 

 

What comments about Bush? I went for the ball, not the man.

 

You're joking right? For example:

 

I implied that I find their current president, and their obnoxious foreign policy a little bit ignorant and pompous some times.

 

Sorry. Didn't quite catch you there.

Don't you know what happens to a society that becomes completely socialist? Where the government determines every need for its citizens?

 

Compimentary in what way?

Our strengths and weaknesses compliment each other. A yin-yang sorta thing.

 

I am perfectly clear on that, nor have I ever done it. Two seperate things they are, yes.

 

I was being facetious. My sense of humor can be a bit obscure sometimes. This debate was fun, but I've fulfilled my posting quota for the year 2003. Ciao. Try to be a little more tolerant of Americans, by the way. We aren't so bad. Really! By the way, we would rise up against our government if they tried to take over the world. Why? Because we can. Left-wing and right-wing may reach that decision following different methods, but we all would eventually agree.

[starwarsman77]

And, Val, as a Californian, I love spending time making fun of Texans.

Are you now evil because you said that? Am I offended? Of course not. Everybody take a lesson from that.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Val Nathras

 

Seemed pretty clear to me. Simple and to the point. Hate the country, don't hate the people. Got it.

 

You didn't get it. It wasn't directed at America in any way - it's a manner of speaking, not directed at anyone.

 

I can because that is the way it was originally intended. And it is also a question of choice. If the people refuse to be responsible for their government, then they must live with the consequence of their inaction.

 

No. The germans cannot be held responsible for what Hitler did - at that time, there only choice was to support him. Germany was bruised from WW1, huge unemployment and they needed a leader badly. If they had known what he was going to do, they might have thought differently.

 

If the American government did some bad things, you wouldn't be able to walk up to an American and say that it's his fault, or that he somehow personally resposible for his country's actions. What if he didn't even vote for the current government? What if he had, but had no idea what that government would do afterwards?

 

It is not always easy to stop the current government from doing bad things, particularily if the population is divided in opinions.

 

Therein lies the difference between us. We take the insult personally because in our eyes, we the people are the country.

 

But you are not. If I said that your country's policy regarding war is stupid, it doesn't mean in any way that you are stupid. You live in the country, you do not rule it, or decide on everything it does.

 

I would never insult another country.

 

Why not? You are only insulting the government and their actions.

 

 

Hitler's words were supplemented by his actions.

 

They were not. Check your history book - when Hitler rose to power, he only needed flaming speeches.

 

so let's not pick on the Germans by default.

 

I'm not picking on Germans. I'm using what Germany as a country did during WW2 as an example. I'm not picking on the German WW2 soldier, or even Hitler.

 

They can be construed to mean a person is basically stupid and incapable of performing the simplest of tasks.

In everyday conversation, the specific definition of a word can be made irrelevant based upon the context in which that word is used. In other words, we hear what we want to hear.

 

Only you do. There's a huge difference between being ignorant and stupid.

 

As an example, I find religious people ignorant, but I'd never call them stupid.

 

I believe that everything is possible until proven otherwise.

 

Go right ahead and believe that. I won't stop you.

 

I view the attack on the WTC as an act of war. Indeed, a great many Americans feel that way. Are we also ignorant?

 

Yes, but that cannot be applied to every American I meet on the street.

 

Does your hatred run so deep? Let go of your anger.

 

Stop making these silly accusations.

 

Don't you know what happens to a society that becomes completely socialist? Where the government determines every need for its citizens?

 

It does not. And that's communism I think you're talking about. Russia was never communist, it was a brutal dictatorship that ignored most of what Marx wrote.

 

Our strengths and weaknesses compliment each other. A yin-yang sorta thing.

 

The only way I can see this, is that the people that do not like it in Europe, always have the option of going to America and vice versa.

 

Try to be a little more tolerant of Americans, by the way. We aren't so bad. Really!

 

Stop thinking I'm intolerant of "Americans" and stop making thinking I hate your country.

 

By the way, we would rise up against our government if they tried to take over the world.

 

You mean: "I would rise against my government if it did those things." Don't apply it to every American.

[C'jais]

Just reviving this topic.

 

America is the world's only current superpower. It would be wise of Europe to unite (especially now that we've gotten 10 new countries into the fold) and contest America. EU seems to be the only current way of doing this, and I seriously think we should make it work, instead of bashing it completely without looking at what it's there for.

 

The world needs another superpower - having only one leads to dictatorship, whether it's done by seemingly democratic methods or not.

 

Europe could do it, and even become greater than USA if the nations involved wills it.

[vegietto]

i agree with u cjais i think they should unite with u

[SettingShadow]

But that means we gotta replace Kronor (Swedish money) with Euro.... so.... I would hate that. Besides I dont think EU will last very long, dont know why, just a feeling.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Squater

But that means we gotta replace Kronor (Swedish money) with Euro.... so.... I would hate that. Besides I dont think EU will last very long, dont know why, just a feeling.

 

Why don't you want to replace your currency? I'd be happy to throw the Danish "Krone" on the big bonfire of nationalism. It's nothing when you think about it.

 

Look at the countries who have the Euro now - do they want to go back?

[SettingShadow]

Originally posted by Cjais

 

Why don't you want to replace your currency? I'd be happy to throw the Danish "Krone" on the big bonfire of nationalism. It's nothing when you think about it.

 

Look at the countries who have the Euro now - do they want to go back?

 

Becuase I dont like the idea thatthe whole Europe use the same "money" (cant come up with a better word), it would take away the feeling of (at least a bit) independacy (sp?). Plus, I like our "Krona"

[Sir Brass]

starwarsman77, val, I'm with you two. I am an American as well, and I'm D@MN PROUD of my country. Just b/c we're a superpower doesn't mean we're a big, bad, fat country. I've heard insults against us americans hurled straight at my face, and even though I didn't flinch, it still hurt. I haven't insulted anybody's country or insulted them for their nationality, yet I'm treated like a little bug by some Europeans (this is when I went to Europe a few Springs ago) just b/c I'm american.

 

Also, we're forgetting a big reason why we Americans are responsible for our governement . . . our RIGHT TO REDRESS! If we find the current leaders corrupt and evil, then we have the right to remove them from power and elect new leaders almost immediately. The people themselves are the final check and balance for the government. If we forget this, then we are truly ignorant, and deserve whatever's coming b/c we ignored the fact that we have the right . . . NAY, the duty to remove leaders who have become corrupt &/or evil from office.

 

I don't know where you got this illusion that you can hate a country w/o hating its people. Yeah, you can hate the country's government w/o hating the people, but you CAN NOT hate the country w/o hating the people who make up that country as well. Its impossible to do so, b/c the people are what comprise a country. A country with no people in it is not a country at all, just a piece of land.

 

Oh, and just to make clear a point, I've never heard anything American insults from the british I personally know. Now, I have several british friends, and we trade friendly insults about each other. Like Mark might say something and I'd mutter "D@mn brit." And he'd reply "F*ck'in yank." We'd both laugh and continue talking. I do the same with West Virginians (I'm a Virginian born and raised), except I can be FAR more cruel but still mean it in good fun only.

 

Oh, and for those of you saying our 'war on terrorism' is arrogant, moronic, etc., lets see how YOU feel when thousands of innocents die in a terrorist attack on your country on the scale that we experienced September 11, 2001. Lets see how you feel when YOUR COUNTRY is attacked for nothing more than for just existing. Lets see how you feel when thousands of innocents die just b/c they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Lets see how you feel when after the event, the stager of the attacks still acts like your country is the ultimate evil, and that all people of your nationality should be killed, and that those who murder you will be heros! Lets see how YOU feel, THEN you can say that our response is arrogant, etc., etc.