US vs. Iraq: Opinions

[Qui-GONE Jinn]

To tell you the truth. The U.N. could not punch its way out of a paper bag without the U.S. They use the U.S. to do all of their dirty work. And without the U.S. the U.N. is worth as much as a 1/1,000,000 of a penny. If the U.S. wanted to it could just throw out the U.N.

I think you mistake uneagerness to kill and destroy, for weakness. The US are the ones that make all the wars. A united Europe could well act, if they hadn't got the US hanging over them all the damn time, protecting "the world's best interests".

 

The US have always been the ones wanting war.

Every idiot can see that all G.W.B. wants is to finish off his fathers "dispute" with saddam. Bush senior is there whispering in his son's ear, for sure.

 

The world isn't black and white. No good versus evil - that doesn't excist. The Iraqui people aren't evil, and the force of the US isn't necessarily good. Good is an entirely relative concept, and what's good for an American isn't necessarily good for an Iraqui person. The behaviour and thinking of the Americans is very ethnocentric. (sp?)

[C'jais]

Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider

To tell you the truth. The U.N. could not punch its way out of a paper bag without the U.S. They use the U.S. to do all of their dirty work. And without the U.S. the U.N. is worth as much as a 1/1,000,000 of a penny. If the U.S. wanted to it could just throw out the U.N.

 

That is not what he said. He is saying the UN tries to stop USA from starting too many wars.

 

Coming here, bragging about the military might of your country doesn't help change everyone's opinions of you being viewed as bullies to the rest of the world.

 

If the US wanted to, they could invade Europe. Hah! Take that!

 

*sigh*...

[Reborn Outcast]

JediNyt Bush did not "jump" in like you say he did in Afghanistan. In fact he even asked the American people what their opinion was on the matter. The people can be heard ya know. Then he asked other European countries what they were willing to do. And when surrounding countries let the US use their own air bases... I don't think that half the world was "jumping" into war.

 

Oh and a new update... N. Korea has said that they have a great "hatred" for the US and that their country is ready to deliver a "bitter defeat" to the US. (" " are direct quotes from the N Korean statement) this info is on the main page of http://www.cnn.com

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast

Oh and a new update... N. Korea has said that they have a great "hatred" for the US and that their country is ready to deliver a "bitter defeat" to the US. (" " are direct quotes from the N Korean statement) this info is on the main page of http://www.cnn.com

 

North Korea's ruling party newspaper has fired a barb at Washington, saying the country is ready to deliver "bitter defeat and death" to a threatening United States.

 

This is what is written. It's some propaganda newspaper that got a little too far with their own opinions.

[Breton]

Originally posted by TheWhiteRaider

 

To tell you the truth. The U.N. could not punch its way out of a paper bag without the U.S. They use the U.S. to do all of their dirty work. And without the U.S. the U.N. is worth as much as a 1/1,000,000 of a penny. If the U.S. wanted to it could just throw out the U.N.

 

Haha! Actually, US don't care a bit about the UN, though a lot of countries do. That is why US refuses to pay the membership thing to UN. Sure, they can use billions of dollars fighting wars, but spend nothing on paying UN the money they owe them. Also, far from all the UN peace-keeping forces are from US, I think most of them are from other countries. UN is not dependent on US.

 

JM Qui-Gon Jinn. Innocent until Proven guilty is true but there is enough edvidence BY COMMON SENSE to prove him guilty. Why didn't he let the UN in before. Like after a few weaks or a month I believe he was saying no then he lets them in. I support a president who knows what he is doing, thats bush.

 

Are you saying that I dont have common sense:eek: .

 

Anyways, it doesn't prove anything that he didn't let them in at once. And they did let them in, didn't they? Also, do you think weapon inspectors get to see all of the US weaponary? I strongly think not. BTW, you all know Bush has an iq of 91, right? (if you hadn't noticed that before)

 

Oh and a new update... N. Korea has said that they have a great "hatred" for the US and that their country is ready to deliver a "bitter defeat" to the US. (" " are direct quotes from the N Korean statement) this info is on the main page of http://www.cnn.com

 

You would have been suprised if you knew how many that thinks the same as N. Korea, and the number is increasing, you know.

 

JediNyt Bush did not "jump" in like you say he did in Afghanistan. In fact he even asked the American people what their opinion was on the matter. The people can be heard ya know. Then he asked other European countries what they were willing to do. And when surrounding countries let the US use their own air bases... I don't think that half the world was "jumping" into war.

 

Surely, he didn't ask what Afghanistan thought of the war, did he?

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

Surely, he didn't ask what Afghanistan thought of the war, did he?

 

This makes no sense... Did everyone who fought against Hitler ask him what he thought? No they were doing what is right. If you ask the enemy what he thinks about war, he's going to say "don't do it" but he's not going to stop whatever wrong he's commiting.

[JediNyt]

I never said it was wrong to go into Afghanistan. It was right to get Bin Laden. Buuuuuttt...like father like son he didnt finish the job or do it right. Bomb bomb bomb. Ya I think the jobs done, lets go bomb someone else. Oh yeah we gotta let those inspectors go first...damn. Well Im sure we'll get to bomb anyway, right? I hope your dead wrong Bushy.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Reborn Outcast

 

This makes no sense... Did everyone who fought against Hitler ask him what he thought? No they were doing what is right. If you ask the enemy what he thinks about war, he's going to say "don't do it" but he's not going to stop whatever wrong he's commiting.

 

Hey, hold on. Afghanistan is NOT Bin Laden. The terrorist acts were not the fault of Afghanistan.

 

I find Bush's "Lets make war on terrorism itself"-idea appalingly stupid. It is impossible to do so. He cannot stop terrorist acts by obliterating the countries harboring said terrorists.

 

Bush has not started any wars... Osama Bin Laden STARTED the war by attacking the United States. Bush just finished it off.

 

First of all, Bush has not finished off anything. If he thinks his actions are going to stop, or even see a decrease in terrorism, the man is mistaken.

 

Secondly, as I said before - WTC was not a declaration of war on USA. A terrorist group did it. Not a country, or the middle east as such. It was an act of terrorism and it has to be viewed as such, unless no improvement is going to be made.

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by Cjais

Secondly, as I said before - WTC was not a declaration of war on USA. A terrorist group did it. Not a country, or the middle east as such. It was an act of terrorism and it has to be viewed as such, unless no improvement is going to be made.

 

Then how was the US supposed to trea it as? A mistake? How else were they supposed to deal with it? If they tried to talk treaty then everyone would laugh at the US and call them cowards. Bin Laden was so driven by hatred for the US that words could not stop him. I would love for you to explain how else the US could have dealt with that tragedy.

[ShockV1.89]

Do America make weapons of mass destruction? I think they do. Have America signed a bloody treaty? I think not!

 

I think so. Remember the gargantuan stockpile of nukes we had during the Cold War? It's not nearly that big anymore, due to treaties with Russia. And even so, we have a right to have nukes because we've shown ourselves to be responsible enough to use them (and face it, we've had ample opportunity). Iraq and N. Korea have done no such thing, and countrys like those should not have weapons of that magnitude...

 

Do you Americans have any particular claim on Iraq's oil? Do you own it or something? Or do you just steal it, and then decide that it is yours for real? In the rest of the world, Bush is known as the Cowboy president, he just wants war, war, war.

 

I wasnt aware this was about oil. Is it? Not that I've seen. I just see it as cooincidence that the oil is there. We could just as easily invade central Africa to root out a terrorist group and people would scream that we're there for the diamond mines...

 

Didn't President Washington say that the U.S. should never get involved in foreign troubles, or somthing like that? I think that would be a very good idea!

 

He was conveniently ignoring the fact that it was france that got involved in ours and Englands troubles that allowed us to come into existance. Foreign policy and alliances are necessary. They may suck a lot, and piss at least SOMEONE off, but they're a necessary evil. Trust me, I wouldnt want to deal with half the people I hear from from overseas.

 

just don't understand why the USA should bully every other nation around? Is it fun? Does it make you feel powerful? Do you do it to compensate for something?

 

You're one of those people who spits on Americans in the street, arent you... Stop making this personal, it's not like I did anything to you, nor did any American on this board (to my knowledge, of course).

 

How did the US get their position in the world? A united Europe must surely be as powerful? Why do America rule the world politics?

 

Mostly because you guys choose not to unite.

 

Why can't the US just go back to their own affairs, if they want to? Why do we need them in Europe? Why can't you just cooperate peacefully with the rest of the world?

 

WW2?

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn

 

, since he prefers the good old texas-style "shoot first and ask later", he don't even wants to check if Saddam has chemical weapons at all before attacking, only the UN made sure of checking that. So how can you support such a war-loving guy?

 

Why don't you see this? Bush was the one that PUSHED the UN to actually search for those weapons.This search would not be conducted right now if it Bush hadn't pushed them to do it!!! Bush IS ASKING first, not shooting.

[C'jais]

Guys, don't let this turn into another anti-american thread.

 

Here's something for you to chew on, while I slither away...

[Reborn Outcast]

Oh this isn't going to . Were having some good discussion with some great opinions here.

[ShockV1.89]

Nah, I doubt it either. Those were just some really stupid anti-american comments. I couldnt keep silent.

 

Personally, I dont completely agree with Bush either. I was on the fence, but leaned more towards the anti-bush stance when Iraq finally let us in for inspections. His reaction stunned me: He simply made more threats! I mean, come on now. We're getting somewhere here, and you're still playing badboy?

 

And as for people not liking the cowboy image of Bush... dont worry, not many people here take him too seriously like that either. Every single time he goes home to Texas, he puts on that stupid hat and boots. I take him even less seriously than I normally do...

[ET Warrior]

If terrorism were simply about religion, then why would the al quaeda go to the trouble of terrorizing the US? We are certainly not the only non-muslim country in the world, we are on the other side of the world from them, AND the US is deffinately the country who is most likely to drop tons and tons of bombs on anyone we think is a threat to us. Terrorizing us is nearly an act of suicide... The terrorist acts of 9-11 result from the US interfering in foreign relations where we didn't really belong. The one thing that quite possibly irritates muslims THE most is when the israeli's declared israel to be their country and we immediately gave them diplomatic recognition. That was a slap in the face to all the muslims who believe that is their land, and they hate us for it. But among other things we have used the CIA many many times to covertly enter foreign countries and remove their leaders when their leaders would try to nationalize oil fields or fruit fields. Anything that would cost the US money but would have been better for their people, we put a stop to. Don't believe me? Go look in a history book during the cold war era.

[ShockV1.89]

But religion is their basis and motivation, which is why that they dont care about killing themselves by attacking us. Suicide? They want that, it's a glorious thing to them. Thats why their tactics often revolve around some kamikaze theme of a sort.

 

I'm not saying we didnt have a hand in this. We did, sort of. And it was wrong that we did what we did back then. The Cold War panic made a lot of officials do really stupid things. We experienced our own oppressions right here in the states (red scare, virtual abolishment of civil liberties). And heck, we're risking it now.

 

But we have a right to defend ourselves. Just because we made some stupid, rash decisions 30 years ago does not mean we bend over and take it now.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by ShadowTemplar

War did do a remarkable job of curing the world of Hitler and his gang (sure the postwar effort is even more important, but to be "post"war...).

 

But hitler started that war, and look at how we view hitler. He was an evil evil man, i believe it takes great evil to start a war unless there is a great cause behind it. There is no great cause in going to war with Iraq. Maybe they have weapons of mass destruction, maybe they don't. But if we dont KNOW then we should not even think about it.

 

 

And I agree that the people who committed the attacks of 9-11 deserve to pay, but that should not include the bombing of an entire country where many innocent people will lose their lives. It makes us no better than the terrorists that did that to us.

[wardz]

Religion is the front for terroism. It gives them some sort of legitimacy and a way of attracting misguided individuals...

 

America is far from perfect but as the worlds only current superpower (yet. The chinese will get you soon) I would prefer them to any other nation. Although it would be better if the UK was still upthere, at least we did things for the world instead of look after our own backs.

 

Even if Goerge senior is having a word in his ear? Saddam should have been killed the first time around but he gave him the benefit of the doubt!! He has rejected his generosity and IMO taken the piss out of the UN so he needs to be dealt with, before he deals with us!

 

 

W

[JediNyt]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

And I agree that the people who committed the attacks of 9-11 deserve to pay, but that should not include the bombing of an entire country where many innocent people will lose their lives. It makes us no better than the terrorists that did that to us.

Well put. I think thats about all thats left to say. This has been a great discussion. I think Im done with it.

[Qui-GONE Jinn]

I didn't think my comments against the US was stupid at all, actually.

 

Let's just face it, the war in Afghanistan wasn't a "good" war. It was totally unnecessary, IMHO. Whatever did the people of Afgh do to you anyway?

 

You're one of those people who spits on Americans in the street, arent you...

 

Actually, I am not. I'm just damned pissed with their foreign policy. Couldn't America be more like a neighbor than a policeman?

I don't like their view on guns, and their superior attitude, saying we're better than you all. That's all really... Superiority don't sit well with me.

 

Of course, I don't hate America. America is cool. Yet again, the superior attitude they display, everywhere they go is annoying. I must say however, that this is but stereotypics. Most Americans are nice, generous hospitable people as well, (Stereotyping again) and there is something extremely fascinating about America.

[Reborn Outcast]

Originally posted by Qui-GONE Jinn

I didn't think my comments against the US was stupid at all, actually.

 

Let's just face it, the war in Afghanistan wasn't a "good" war. It was totally unnecessary, IMHO. Whatever did the people of Afgh do to you anyway?

 

I asked this before and I'll ask it again. How then was the US supposed to treat it as? If they had just sat back and done nothing, the attacks would have kept on coming and the US would be called cowards by half the world!!! How else was the US supposed to take out Bin Laden? Send a mole into his organization? That would take years and there is always the chance of that mole being killed or turning traitor. I think the US did the right thing, just to many civilian casualties happened.

[vegietto]

i think we should just let them live there life and us live ours because we will never be happy until we have ever country other then us and our allies without weapons