Whoa, what's this, a shameless plug for Promod

[Break_dF]

Sorry but one thing that irks me about you "promodders" (this is a generalization, if you can't take it stop reading now) is that most of you assume, MOST of you assume that vanilla takes no skill...etc etc. I'm really tired of reading it all... Every game type takes an amount of skill. There are always those better than you at something. The 1.04 FF game takes a massive amount of timing, hand-eye coordination and cleverness. This cleverness is usually referred to as 'cheapness.' Personally, I like finding exploits and using them to my advantage. That's the great thing about computer gaming. It's unpredicable. If you were to say that the NF game of JKO is a joke then I would agree w/ you. I do realize that based on the continuity of starwars and blah blah blah, kicking in FF matches shouldn't be as deadly...but c'mon. It takes teh mad skillz to pull off some of this stuff... Oh, and as far as killing ppl quickly, in 'vanilla' my record for a FFA server is 30 kills in 2 minutes... it can be done.

[Walwi Makno]

Break's right... basejk takes some insane skills to be good at. I had major trouble learning to pull/throw/kick online. All the people running around trying to pull off these combos (although they take skill, and kill quickly) turned me off to the game because I thought I'd bought a Star Wars game. I wanted people to fear me because I had a lightsaber, not because I have a glowing boomerang and karate skills. Just imagine Jango trying to rush Obi-Wan and kick him in the face when Obi still had his lightaber. Now I realize that kicks have been used in lightsaber fights, but normally that was to get the oponent off of you (Luke in RotJ, Maul in TPM).

 

Promod makes the game what I always thought it should be. And the good thing about it, it's not like an official patch, you don't have to play it if you don't like it. And like Moradivh said, Art will keep on working on it until he feels it's balanced.

[Moradivh]

AHH GENERALIZATION!!! I'm not like that!!! I'M OFFENDED I'M OFFENDED!!!

 

Heheh, in all seriousness I understand what you're saying. There's a common misconception that anyone who abuses animation glitches and game imbalances has no skill whatsoever. Again, another generalization, but many players DO believe this. Why? Because most of the time they have to put up with idiots who really DON'T have skill outside of this one cheezy tactic. Most players never encounter the "inventor" of the exploit, who's often quite smart and skilled at the game. No, they have to deal with the trash-talking dumbasses under him, the guys who DO spam it mindlessly. People think abusing imbalances takes no creativity or skill because most haven't been exposed to anyone else.

 

Funny thing is, it's players like you who're MOST useful when testing for play balance, Break. You think creatively and come up with wacky tactics the game's designers never anticipated. The rolling hordes of normal thinkers who're obsessed with "acting like a Jedi would" tend not to find as many holes in the system, and as such aren't as helpful.

 

Still, one has to draw a line. If these weird tricks are so powerful that they become the standard for which all skilled fights (and most non-skilled fights) are decided, then the game mutates into something neither the designers NOR the majority of players wanted for their money's worth. If it doesn't even look or feel like a swordfight anymore, gamers won't bother getting good at it. So the game loses its appeal fast, gets old and dies.

 

See, most players expect a certain level of immersion when they play online. And I'm not just talking about psycho-roleplayers. A lot of potentially skilled gamers want to get good at a certain way of fighting, but they can't because their favorite swing just isn't damaging enough to compete.

 

So we're talking about more rational options of play, more uses for the old, tired swings and force powers Raven so carefully made graphics for, but aren't practical 99% of the time. Of course, the TRULY skilled can kick ass no matter how many things are underpowered, cause they can just discover more, and master what few are effective. But just because a few skilled players can do this doesn't make the game deep or appealing to the majority of skilled and non-skilled players alike.

 

Anyways, promod doesn't try to remove creative discovery from the game. If anything it's trying to encourage it by making many formerly laughable moves dangerous again. Already there's been a few "weird but effective" side-effects that people have found after Art's changes, though we could always use more creative thinkers to try things out.

 

K, my posts are getting way too long. Time to shut up.

[razorace]

I'm not a fan of rock-paper-scissors gameplay; It rarely works well, if at all.

 

I think a key issue about Promod is that it's primarily about improving the err..."skills" of the game, not an attempt at realism. That's a perfectly ok game design decision but you're going to encounter people who prefer different priorties.

 

It's pretty obvious that basejk2 was designed as a quickly built, mainstream title to be released around the same time as Episode II. And if you look at it in that light, it succeeded very well. JK2 was a good seller and a pretty good product for one with such deadlines/design priorities.

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by razorace

I'm not a fan of rock-paper-scissors gameplay; It rarely works well, if at all.

 

I think a key issue about Promod is that it's primarily about improving the err..."skills" of the game, not an attempt at realism. That's a perfectly ok game design decision but you're going to encounter people who prefer different priorties.

 

It's pretty obvious that basejk2 was designed as a quickly built, mainstream title to be released around the same time as Episode II. And if you look at it in that light, it succeeded very well. JK2 was a good seller and a pretty good product for one with such deadlines/design priorities.

 

There's that word again.

[razorace]

"Skills"?

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Break_dF

The 1.04 FF game takes a massive amount of timing, hand-eye coordination and cleverness. This cleverness is usually referred to as 'cheapness.' Personally, I like finding exploits and using them to my advantage.

 

You mean like the weaklings that were screaming "I am elite" in a game that I was, with their scripted pull, kick moves? Oh yeah, it took me 20 seconds to kill them with my kind of kicking, since a script will never be as good as doing the real thing. I don't even have to use the pull...you know what is sad is that kicking is the most sure and powerful attack in 1.04. Any strike that you make is blockable and counter-able by kick, kick can push you off ledges for sure, you don't have to even force push anyone. Not to mention that in comparison to kick, the sabres fade because the guy who kicks well will always triumph over the guy who sabers well. 1.04 is a disaster, it is obvious when moves like kick and throw dominate the game...Promod over that, any day for me.....

[Pedantic]

Gah!!!!! Motherfrickin' A!!!!! I'm so sick of every damn thread in the Valley turning into a "download Promod" thread. Of course, I realize this thread started as one, which is even worse. As of this moment, I'm never downloading Promod, ever, ever, ever!!!!!

 

BTW, I realize that saying every thread turns into a "download Promod" thread is a generalization and I apologize ahead of time for hurting anyone's feelings.

[BlackDove]

From what I've seen, you're at the shorter end of the deal heh.....

[Admiral_Ackbar8]

i downloaded pro mod and its confusing for me

i made my own server with it

[BlackDove]

What's the IP? I'll come visit you

[Admiral_Ackbar8]

no no no no

i just sometimes set up a local connection server and play with my brother to try out mods and maps

[Pedantic]

Originally posted by BlackDove

From what I've seen, you're at the shorter end of the deal heh.....

 

The sad thing is I don't care. I've seen too many "shameless plugs" for Promod. And that's exactly what they are--shameless. Not to mention my clan doesn't do Promod, but that's beside the point.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Admiral_Ackbar8

no no no no

i just sometimes set up a local connection server and play with my brother to try out mods and maps

 

Uhm, ok..sorry I asked I guess o.O

 

Anyway, what I wanted to ask was, if anyone gets an error when trying to join Artifexs' server (not the 3.1, that thing ain't out yet, I know), but I've seen like 8 players on the prodmodbeta3, but when I try enter it, I get an error...I downloaded the mod from here so is that the right mod for that server? Erm, wouldn't know, so anyone know anything about this?

 

Originally posted by Pedantic

The sad thing is I don't care. I've seen too many "shameless plugs" for Promod. And that's exactly what they are--shameless. Not to mention my clan doesn't do Promod, but that's beside the point.

 

Then...your clan is at the shorter end of the deal

[Moradivh]

Haaaaa hahahahhaa.

 

Auto-download dude. Turn it on. Due to a stupid mistake when Arti uploaded the mod to various websites, his server runs a slightly more up-to-date version of promod 3.0. It's unforgivable, I know. Feel free to send him hate mail about this. I think his email's listed in his signiature someplace.

 

Hehehehe... see? Most people don't even know how to join Arti's server!!!!! Still, it's his own damn fault for getting his last-minute adjustments to the mod mixed up.

[Unnamed Jed1]

I finally downloaded this and well, here is my take.

 

Sabers

As far as the saber stuff goes, I like the elimination of the ridiculously absurd auto/random blocking that was introduced in 1.03.

Being able to line up your swing and actually have it connect instead of the “pretty-sparkly magic blocking” could not be more welcome.

 

The one thing I’m kind of still undecided on is the combat cross hair. I understand its purpose, but in a way it seems to make saber combat more of just a “line up the crosshair and push mouse 1” type of generic third person shooter.

 

Force powers

 

Some changes are cool, like the smaller arc on level 3 Drain and the duck/push/pull animation counter.

The thought that went into the changes came from (I assume) the desire to make anything a person does, have some viable counter/negative effect waiting for it by the opponent.

 

The problem I have with the Force changes, is well, it seems more of like a “pick up” item (sentry guns, bacta) than an actual “power”.

The changes made to kicks totally eliminated the possibility of many difficult to perform, yet rewarding combos.

I really don’t see why any changes had to be made to kicking if the sabers became more powerful and accurate with this mod.

 

Kicks aside, I have watched some of the “combos” performed in pro mod, and well, not to be mean, but it’s pretty simple and easy to do newbie stuff.

 

I mean Grip and slash?

Speed and heavy swing?

That’s something a guy who’s been playing for two days could master.

Full Force duel players thrive on finding newer and fancier ways to combine high speed attacks into one devastating assault.

There just does not seem to be enough complexity or style in the Force based combos.

It’s pretty much, do something to stun/distract them then just swing at them.

 

I’ll play it some more before I give any final judgment though.

 

 

 

Now, I could not help but read a few comments people made about “blah blah 1.04 takes no skill, Spam this, and Spam that”.

Let me clue you in on something.

The people that are the most dominate players in this game (regular 1.04) today are the people who took all the crap patches thrown at them and still managed to adapt and dominate.

If your “skills” went away after this or that patch, here is a news flash: you were not skilled to begin with.

I hear all the time stupid things like “If this was 1.02/1.03 I would own you”.

Yeah give the guy who is totally dominating everyone with weakened attack options back all the powerful attacks that got stripped away and I’m sure you will do sooo much better against him…

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by Unnamed Jed1

 

 

 

Now, I could not help but read a few comments people made about “blah blah 1.04 takes no skill, Spam this, and Spam that”.

Let me clue you in on something.

The people that are the most dominate players in this game (regular 1.04) today are the people who took all the crap patches thrown at them and still managed to adapt and dominate.

If your “skills” went away after this or that patch, here is a news flash: you were not skilled to begin with.

I hear all the time stupid things like “If this was 1.02/1.03 I would own you”.

Yeah give the guy who is totally dominating everyone with weakened attack options back all the powerful attacks that got stripped away and I’m sure you will do sooo much better against him…

 

 

Anyone who plays jk2 should read this: ^^^^

 

Preach it, UJ, preach it my brotha!

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by BlackDove

You mean like the weaklings that were screaming "I am elite" in a game that I was, with their scripted pull, kick moves? Oh yeah, it took me 20 seconds to kill them with my kind of kicking, since a script will never be as good as doing the real thing. I don't even have to use the pull...you know what is sad is that kicking is the most sure and powerful attack in 1.04. Any strike that you make is blockable and counter-able by kick, kick can push you off ledges for sure, you don't have to even force push anyone. Not to mention that in comparison to kick, the sabres fade because the guy who kicks well will always triumph over the guy who sabers well. 1.04 is a disaster, it is obvious when moves like kick and throw dominate the game...Promod over that, any day for me.....

 

Yes...that's an opinion...but, you're not very clear about the whole scripting and whatnot.... Umm....yeah, you should probably just stay away from games that involve pressing more than one button 8).

[UnearthlyRogue]

Eh, I did pretty good for my first time. Second game and I was in second place. Mercs Forever!

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by Break_dF

Yes...that's an opinion...but, you're not very clear about the whole scripting and whatnot.... Umm....yeah, you should probably just stay away from games that involve pressing more than one button 8).

 

Did you actually write those words? What is this? I go away and people immediatly turn into infant idiots? Jesus, it seems you need lego time too as well as some other people around here, god damnit, you can't even carry on a decent discussion without resorting to an idiotic joke that doesn't really connect nor makes sense.

 

That's an opinion? No kiddie, that's a FACT. Now go think up of something productive to say, you're waisting my time.

[Doctor Shaft]

You're right about some of the simple combos Unamed Jedi. Grip slash, run and red swing are viable options in Promod. However, I feel that's the beauty of the game, hence why I SHAMELESLLY plugged it in the first place.

 

Seriously, there are a lot of 'easy' things you can do in Promod. 1.04 takes skill, no doubt. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy. Every game takes skill. You can be good at street fighter doing all those stick movements and hitting buttons, and then you can play a game like soul calibur where doing moves is easier and more intuitive, but both games take a skill level to play (but I still play street fighter for life).

 

For me, Promod is the game with the kind of skills I would like to learn and have fun with. 1.04 doesn't work for me, others believe it's incredibly fun to play and learn the skill set.

 

For me, it's great that so many things that are easy are also dangerous. I'm glad that if I lose my concentration just a bit, some wild newbie can come speeding in and easily red chop me down, or go crazy on the yellow swings and cut me down, or just use grip and slash me. These moves are just drop dead obvious, but they're also deadly. However, at the same time, as you become more skilled at the mod and understand how the saber blocking system works, how the trump system works, these easy moves, while deadly, can also 'easily' be countered, pending you know what to do.

 

Red chop with speed will always be dangerous, however; as of now yellow trumps red. Running backwards and maintaining crosshair aim will almost ensure that you deflect the shot, removing the attackers guard, and allowing you to counter. If they're running to fast to hit, that's when all those great force powers come in to assist you, or you can put your saber out there for them to run into. The grip saber slash technique is easy to do and at first may seem unbeatable, however with blue stance activated, you've already got a block bonus of 5, run backwards for another 4 or 5, even duck and move backwards if you wish, and you've got something like +15 so long as your aim is good. Basically, the grip gets you, but the swing gets deflected. Some things are easy to do, but the easier they are to do, the easier it is to counter those moves. But it's not always easy to counter the easy moves, you just kind have to be on your toes at all times.

 

The kicking question gets asked a lot. The change was made because with double tap kicking gives the kick a lot of power. It has more effective range than all the lightsaber moves, and it's so much easier to get someone with. I never had trouble smacking people around with double tap kick in 1.03/1.04, unless of course they were watching for it, and kicking me back, but that's my point. Kick was becoming a major part of the battle, because our sabers were kind of weak too. It's not a matter of saying kicking was overpowered, just a matter of putting kicks in the background of promod so that sabers could come even further to the front. In short; it just is. If you feel this is a major loss, well perhaps that's an indication that kicks did have an extremely effective range against sabers, or perhaps not. However, this hasn't destroyed kicks effetiveness. The change isn't simply single tap. A front kick will do the customary 10 damage, but it will not knockdown in promod. So you get that quick boot to the face, and sometimes you'll get a kill. The sidekick, if you have good side aim (yes, you don't need to crosshair them, but the csc does check how your side is lined up), will knock opponents down all the time. They get knocked pretty far away, giving you really good breathing space, or enough time to run up and crowd a person. That's how kicks are adjusted. Because you must get closer with the kick, it's not a very offensive move. If they crowd you, side kick them, if you want to try to kill them, front kick em.

 

Like Moradivh said, this game takes all those pretty moves and bland swings and makes them a much bigger part of the game. Some people could care less about this, so they should stop coming in this thread complaining and go read the threads that ask about the X Box version of the game or how to activate cheats, since that's all I really see up in the valley. Force power interaction is different because everything plays a role. It's great that I go in to Arti's server and I don't encounter a majority of the better 'promod' players all using incredibly similar force power settings. Some like to use mind trick a lot, and they do it very well now. Others use grip exclusively, and they do well. I use lightning a lot, if you can believe lightning is somewhat useful. Others actually use force protect and healing to great effect. I rarely play a server game where at least four or five people have the same ole setup. of course, we could also argue that 1.04 has a lot of force power diversity that is effective as well, but I'm not going to fight about it. Anyone than can own in 1.04 has my respect.

 

And finally, come on, admit it, you like going in the valley and seeing all these annoying posts. It gives you a chance to come in and complain about why promod should not be hailed, rather than the usual visit to the valley that consists of threads like "how do i change saber color" or "how do i activate cheat 4?". Sometimes those are fun to answer, but you can't seriously want to have nothing but those threads ALL the time. If you got a thread that's interesting and doesn't relate to the topics "cheat, saber color, join multiplayer game, change force powers", then post it and we'll argue there too. Until then, have a nice day. 1.04 takes skill.

[RpTheHotrod]

If more people played it, I'd only play promod

 

Nuff said

[Break_dF]

Originally posted by BlackDove

Did you actually write those words? What is this? I go away and people immediatly turn into infant idiots? Jesus, it seems you need lego time too as well as some other people around here, god damnit, you can't even carry on a decent discussion without resorting to an idiotic joke that doesn't really connect nor makes sense.

 

That's an opinion? No kiddie, that's a FACT. Now go think up of something productive to say, you're waisting my time.

 

Erm, I wasn't flaming you but now that you've started on some wild tangent, let me explain myself. You're one of those people that sucked at vanilla and tried something different (promod). You probably also suck at promod. It's not my fault you suck. You should just keep your aggression to yourself and the other idiots in your Lazarous Fan Club. Promod is NOT better than vanilla. Promod is geared more towards saber combat...that's it. Some like it, some don't. I tried it a few months ago and thought it was alittle too boring myself. 2000+ posts doesn't make you an expert on gaming. I would suggest moving along and prohibiting yourself from naively pressing the reply button. Good day.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by RpTheHotrod

If more people played it, I'd only play promod

 

Nuff said

 

Seconded. I'm sick of lag on transatlantic servers, incredibly annoying "rush hour" game time periods in the middle of the night etc.

 

Are most Promod players Americans then?

[zerowingzero]

Originally posted by Break_dF

Erm, I wasn't flaming you but now that you've started on some wild tangent, let me explain myself. You're one of those people that sucked at vanilla and tried something different (promod). You probably also suck at promod. It's not my fault you suck. You should just keep your aggression to yourself and the other idiots in your Lazarous Fan Club. Promod is NOT better than vanilla. Promod is geared more towards saber combat...that's it. Some like it, some don't. I tried it a few months ago and thought it was alittle too boring myself. 2000+ posts doesn't make you an expert on gaming. I would suggest moving along and prohibiting yourself from naively pressing the reply button. Good day.

 

All oppinions are subjective, I think promod is the only mod in which a pure gunner and pure saberist can have a 1v1 and it could go either way. Saber blocking is fixed, damage is upped and kicks are back to single tap, so sabers are now a reasonable way to kill someone. Promod is gear toward ballanceing all aspects of play, guns, saber stances, force powers, for the sole purpoise of explanding gameplay and creating new strats.

 

Base JK is NOT better than Promod.