griff38 Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Should media providers make available to the public film or photos of prisoners of war? Donald Rumsfield says it is a violation of the Geneva Convention rules concerning prisoners. If they are made available would you look at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 I would look at them, but I think it's wrong. What if they are being mistreated (which I am sure they are)? The family of those captured doesn't want to see them hurt, I'm sure. I guess it is no different then the coverage of Sept. 11th though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 It depends to a certain degree. I feel it's a government conspiracy to hide the truth that there are prisoners, that they're in mortal danger and that some of them have been executed. On the other hand, I also feel it's humiliating to show video photage of them in their piss poor condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Well, any TV stations that air them are breaking a Geneva Convention rule and would be tried for war crimes. But yes, I would watch them but I wouldn't enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Why is it assumed that they are being treated badly? From what I see, that is the sentiment here on the boards. Also, I think that the Geneva convention violation has something to do with them being humilitated. Either that section, or the section pertaining to protection from public curiosity. Sounds odd, but that would seem to pertain to showing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reborn Outcast Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 Yes I think it would. They were humiliated by the Arab TV stations showing them so what is the difference of a US station showing them again to the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodiac Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I have seen the allied troops showing pics and videos of captured iraqi prisoners of war. I don't think both sides treat their pows the same way tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Geneva Convention, Baloni Convention...you think a guy like Saddam actually CARES about that? Heck, he and his adminstration are going to do whatever it takes to win this war, including very bad things people don't like to see or imagine done to someone. Rumsfeld needs to stop playing by his set of rules and START playing by the Iraqi government's set of rules (which is essentially no rules). *ranting directed at Rumsfeld's ignorance, in no way I am trying to offend any LFers* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 if ya cant beat em your way ... become them?! hmmmmm sounds a little dodgy but that is essentially what ur saying wassup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 i personally would look, but im nosey. the media goes too far even here. its not our rite to see our own prisoners of war, and just because they are there doesnt mean tv should air them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Originally posted by wassup Geneva Convention, Baloni Convention...you think a guy like Saddam actually CARES about that? Heck, he and his adminstration are going to do whatever it takes to win this war, including very bad things people don't like to see or imagine done to someone. Rumsfeld needs to stop playing by his set of rules and START playing by the Iraqi government's set of rules (which is essentially no rules). That's not a healthy decision, if you expect your country to come out of this conflict looking like the moral victors. America has acted dirty in the past, but I'm will to forgive if they for once could just handle the aftermath like the rightful liberators they're trying to emulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Ditto what C'Jais said. Look at the way the commanders treated the captured taliban. They were pretty ruthless then. I heard on the news that the Iraqi Army was indeed following the rules of the Geneva convention. Despite what everyone thinks, they possibly may very well be following the geneva convention rules and regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 well they didnt execute them, they just scanned them they didnt put them on the spot, also most of the afgganni soldiers werent military and dont apply to the geneva convention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Originally posted by daring dueler also most of the afgganni soldiers werent military and dont apply to the geneva convention. Afghan soldiers were not our enemies during the war on terrorism. Only the terrorists. If someone is fighting in a war, and they are captured by the enemy, well, that's POW scenerio enough in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Ok...sorry I guess I didn't phrase that last part well enough. I just want Rumsfeld to start waking up and stop complaining about how Iraq is not following the rules of war or whatever. I didn't neccessarily mean for the US to actually use the same sort of tactics. I just want the US to recgonize these dirty tactics and be prepared for any sort of conflict, clean or dirty, but not neccessarily fight dirty to counter these tactics. Sorry for the misconception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 The US propoganda machine is turbo charged with nitrous oxide boosters. The gall of rumsfeld to exagerate the mistreatment of US pows by the Iraqis is off the scale. At the same time they dismiss and ignore the international standards of treatment of prisoners we hold. We hold the Guantánamo detainees in very harsh conditions, most of them confined alone to tiny cells for 24 hours a day and allowed to "exercise" in shackles for only 30 minutes a week -- conditions which Amnesty International say amount to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of international standards. The detainees remain , unable to challenge the lawfulness of their detention, and with no indication as to how long they might be so held. There have been numerous suicide attempts. Family members are subject to the emotional distress of not knowing how their loved ones are being treated, why exactly they are being held, or when or if they will see them again. the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the most authoritative body on the provisions of the Geneva Conventions say photographs of the detainees in orange jumpsuits, kneeling before U.S. soldiers, shackled, handcuffed, and wearing blacked-out goggles over their eyes and masks over their mouths and noses is worse than how the Iraqis showed a the few US soldiers. Who by the way should get to see a Redcross rep soon. How many prisoners do we hold that get to see a Redcross Rep? None. Rumsfelds excuse for all of this? OH, the people we hold are not POWs so we don't have to respect the law when it comes to them. But according to US law & the Geneva convention, only the legislative branch of goverment has the authority to issue non pow status. But Bush the exectutive branch issued this determination. Just another blatant hypocrisy to add to the long list. Bush is detroying our honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Griff, as we know by now, the US can choose just how much they're feeling like applying to the Geneva convention and International court of War Crimes. The latter is very sad, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 well i do beleive that we dont control the geneva convention, but its not like our soldiers are reading it before they engage, if someone is there and shooting at them, they are as good as dead, the army soldier wont fallow it when his life is in danger. he'll just shoot the hell out of the bad guy, as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by griff38 The US propoganda machine is turbo charged with nitrous oxide boosters. The gall of rumsfeld to exagerate the mistreatment of US pows by the Iraqis is off the scale. No there just being EXICUTED. na..... your right its off the scale.. Originally posted by griff38 At the same time they dismiss and ignore the international standards of treatment of prisoners we hold. We hold the Guantánamo detainees in very harsh conditions, most of them confined alone to tiny cells for 24 hours a day and allowed to "exercise" in shackles for only 30 minutes a week -- conditions which Amnesty International say amount to cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of international standards. The detainees remain , unable to challenge the lawfulness of their detention, and with no indication as to how long they might be so held. There have been numerous suicide attempts. Family members are subject to the emotional distress of not As for this a few may be innocent, but for the most part screw them. They aren't being beat and are getting feed so what if they don't have color TV and cable. Most if given the opertunity would try to claw your eye out with there fangers. Hell I get that where I work..... Maybe you would like it better if we let them all out and gave them a pilot licenses huh.... If anything this country is to dam lax on criminals as a hole let alone terrorist, whom most are innocent tell they crash a plane or set off a bomb. Than its is to late to put them in prison or on trial there dead and they KILLED your wife a children at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Oh and "griff38" thoughs guys the TERRORIST are kneeling before aren't U.S. Soldiers. They are U.S. MARINES..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Jack Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by griff38 is worse than how the Iraqis showed a the few US soldiers. Who by the way should get to see a Redcross rep soon. How many prisoners do we hold that get to see a Redcross Rep? None. Hmm dam I can't stop getting pissed off at your post. "Is worse than how the Iraqis showed a the few US soldiers" No they're showeing them with bulet holes in there heads on Al Jizzera. Wonder how much good a Red Cross Rep. is going to be for the ones that were exicuted assuming all of them haven't been. "How many prisoners do we hold that get to see a Redcross Rep? None." Ha Ha Ha lol lol lol lol lol oh ha ha ha ha......ha ha ha No we just waist all our time and tax money operating on them dam bastereds. Looks to me like your propoganda machine is turbo charged with nitrous oxide boosters. DAM HIPPIE:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Easy, Jack ,easy.... Debate your point without the name calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daring dueler Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 hippie! lol anyways i do agree with you jack, their soldiers we captured are certainly getting aid from red cross or at least usmc medics. its common ground, we always did even in ww2 we did treat some germans, and others.the iraqis just kill their pows, now thats a nice thing to do isnt it? and the last i checked they have 12 of our men(12 too many, i pray for them)we have ohh what 3,000! and we manage to bandage them up, then interrogate,who knows they very well may torture the officers for info, but its not on tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 In general, I disagree with the whole "televised war" thing. I have to admit, I'm watching it, but there's something about it that doesn't sit right. Whether it's the prisoners of war on the Iraqi or the coalition side, whether it's an embedded reporter giving an account of the day's battle... what have you. I think the main reason for embedding journalists was to provide realtime information to CentCom as well as to propagate the coalition sentiment as being just. I don't, however, think we're seeing an unbiased report in most cases. Reporters shouldn't offer analogies, metaphors, and simalies when reporting facts. They should offer facts. I recently read a headline that said, "Sandstorm of Biblical Proportions." I hear reporters talk of "mowing or cutting down the enemy" when it should be the enemy was engaged and killed. The point is that there is a reality to the war we don't see. It is bloody. It is gruesome. Soldiers (and Marines, Jack ) feel emotions on the battlefield that cannot be described by an untrained (in battle) reporter. Should POW's be shown on television?.... that's a many sided issue. On one hand it may be against the Geneva Convention that stipulates that governments cannot "humiliate" prisoners of war. The problem there is, Al Jazeera is an NGO (non-governmental organization). Is it subject to the Geneva convention? I think answering questions on the air and having my dead corpse paraded to the world is humiliating. Just showing my image would be reassuring to my family if I were shown alive and well. I think when we go kick Kim Jung Il's butt, we should have the war coverage contracted out to only one network. Let the beer companies devise clever adverts and put the live stuff on Pay-Per-View. Maybe that'll help pay for the whole thing and Congress won't have to be bothered for several billion $ [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff38 Posted March 28, 2003 Author Share Posted March 28, 2003 Originally posted by Cosmos Jack Oh and "griff38" thoughs guys the TERRORIST are kneeling before aren't U.S. Soldiers. They are U.S. MARINES..... Don't lecture me about Marines jr, I was humping a pack while your mommy was still changing your dirty diapers. Ive spent more time pissing out the back of a Ch-53 than you have at your keyboard. Your arguments are so weak they generally don't deserve a response, however you have insulted me 1 too many times. Plenty of people in here disagree without personally insulting each other, why should you be the exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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