How to stop the idiotic RPG elements that will be forced upon you in JK3

[Spider AL]

I never kicked anyone because I didn't like the way they played (actual combat, not talk),

That's a good thing, Lexxy. However you have recommended that everyone else should kick players when they don't like the way those players play. That's not good.

 

I kicked them if they acted like jerks.

And who defines what "acting like a jerk" is? You, I suppose. Well if you're paying for the server you can do what you like, but "acting like a jerk" is hardly concrete enough as a concept to base a rule around. A simple rule like "no swearing," or "no abusing other players textually" is good, and leaves no scope for malicious admins to abuse their powers.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. People shouldn't be allowed to come on to a server and impose their own personal rules. I'm asking, what are you gonna do, argue with them for half an hour on whether you should bow or not?

What you do, is kill them. All fanboys must be killed and stomped upon ingame, none can be allowed to take control of public servers, and what's REALLY important is that serious players band together to prevent the fanboys ruining the upcoming game with their endless whining to Raven about hardwiring their silly wants and needs into the game through patching, as happened in JO 1.03.

 

Detritic's most recent post highlights the problem with fanboys in all positions, powerful or otherwise. They're hypocrites with a limited understanding of the game and of basic internet civility.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Indeedski. I would have left straight away if they asked me, explaining that it was a sabers game. I get no joy or fulfillment about playing people who have no interest in fighting back.

[leXX]

Originally posted by Spider AL

That's a good thing, Lexxy. However you have recommended that everyone else should kick players when they don't like the way those players play. That's not good.

 

If a person does wanna stand there arguing about the rules of a server, they are considered a jerk imo and would be kicked.

 

If you don't agree with me, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

And who defines what "acting like a jerk" is? You, I suppose.

 

Yep.

 

Well if you're paying for the server you can do what you like, but "acting like a jerk" is hardly concrete enough as a concept to base a rule around. A simple rule like "no swearing," or "no abusing other players textually" is good, and leaves no scope for malicious admins to abuse their powers.

 

Do I really need to define what acting like a jerk means. I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who the jerks are.

 

What you do, is kill them. All fanboys must be killed and stomped upon ingame, none can be allowed to take control of public servers, and what's REALLY important is that serious players band together to prevent the fanboys ruining the upcoming game with their endless whining to Raven about hardwiring their silly wants and needs into the game through patching, as happened in JO 1.03.

 

And what do you do if you can't kill them. What if you loose every single match against them? (And I don't wanna hear, I would win because I'm so brilliant).

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by leXX:

 

And what do you do if you can't kill them. What if you loose every single match against them? (And I don't wanna hear, I would win because I'm so brilliant).

 

I doubt if any player who practices more than twice a week would be unable to defeat a fanboy. Fanboys spend all their time whining because they lose, if they spent time practicing they would no longer be fanboys.

 

Besides, the effort is the important thing. If you're on a public game-network server with no rules, and the fanboys insist that you bow, don't bow. If they kickvote you off, return with your friends and crush them. If the ADMIN of the server is a fanboy, complain to the game network, and make sure your friends complain too.

 

Serious players must stick together, because you can be sure that the fanboys stick together like little glue-covered... umm... fanboys.

 

Originally posted by leXX:

 

If a person does wanna stand there arguing about the rules of a server, they are considered a jerk imo and would be kicked.

 

If you don't agree with me, fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Lexx, that's not the relevant quote. This is the relevant quote from your post, the one I quoted and replied to previously:

 

Originally posted by leXX:

 

If someone visits your server and you don't like they way they play, kick them,

Now there's no excuse for that. Reprehensible.

[leXX]

And by that quote, I meant arguing with you, not their actual combat. I would of thought that was pretty obvious by now judging by all my other posts.

 

 

Well you do it your way, and I'll do it my way and we will just leave it at that.

[Spider AL]

And by that quote, I meant arguing with you, not their actual combat. I would of thought that was pretty obvious by now judging by all my other posts.

I'm not sure how the "way people play" is in any way related to whether they argue or not, but if that's what you meant then that's okay. If I were you I'd be a little more careful about how I worded things in future though. A mod on the major JK forums giving a green light to server admins to abuse their powers, intentionally or unintentionally, is no laughing matter.

 

Well you do it your way, and I'll do it my way and we will just leave it at that.

Absolutely. As I've said previously, if you pay for the server you can do whatever you wish on it.

 

The concerns of fair-play and justice for players (and the eradication of fanboys) must be paramount in the minds of all server-admins however, regardless of what sort of server they're running.

[Doctor Shaft]

The thing I love about the pseudo-Rpers or the fanboys is that they'll tell you that you aren't a real jedi when you don't comply to their rules.

 

I've decided that whenever I encounter this stuff again, I will be prepared to "counter-rpg".

 

My counter-rpg system is simple. If I am playing on a public server that does not posess clearly marked rules such as "this here be an RPG server, here be me rulz", then the counter-rpg system is in effect.

 

1.) When I am asked to bow, I simply reply "sorry, I'm a Sith Lord, Sith Lords don't bow". An alternative to that is "I'm a mercenary similar to Aurra Sing, you know, the jedi hopeful turned mercenary. So I use a lightsaber and guns... and I don't bow".

 

2.) When someone has their saber off, and there are no 'rulz' stipulating that saber off should be honored, then I am going to kill them. that's just how it's done. If its clear to me that they are in some deep, dark corner, far away from combat, and they are not moving, have a text box over their head, etc., I leave them alone. Otherwise, dead meat. If they are in the middle of a battle field and turn on the text box, sorry, you're dead. I don't have time to plan an attack on you, only to see the magic box appear. When someone claims that I have no honor though, I simply reply "sorry, I'm a Sith Lord/Aurra Sing/Boba Fett/Jabba the Hutt/The Emperor/the guy who killed moisture farmers from Sulon/Darth Vader. I'm a killer". This also solves the "you have no rhyme or reason for kills, you're lame" argument. Because now you have a reason. Of course you'd kill everything in sight.

 

3.) When the usual 'lame!' messages come up for various reasons, such as intelligently pushing my opponent off the ledge, as opposed to fighting them head on, or using a rocket launcher, or using my sniper rifle to knock them out, or kicking them when they try to hump me with their lightsaber, or just using my dark side powers to vanquish them (there was a reason i had them in the first place, right?), once again, I can simply say "sorry, according to my code of 'honourz', I am a Sith Lord/Aurra Sing/Boba Fett/your worst nightmare, and therefore honor has no place in my character. I am indeed adhering to the Star Warz univerze, because when I watched the movie, I know @#$! well that Jango Fett did not play fair, nor did he bow to Mace Windu before having his head cut off!"

 

And that ends my Counter-RPG system. My apologies to any of the REAL RPG servers, players, admins, etc., who have clearly designated games and servers. To the ones coming to the public servers... you plagued us with your rules. That's fine. You've somehow 'justified' your actions, and now, in a Star Wars-esque fashion, I have justified my own. Take it.

[leXX]

Originally posted by Spider AL

I'm not sure how the "way people play" is in any way related to whether they argue or not, but if that's what you meant then that's okay. If I were you I'd be a little more careful about how I worded things in future though. A mod on the major JK forums giving a green light to server admins to abuse their powers, intentionally or unintentionally, is no laughing matter.

 

Which is why I made it clear in all my posts after you picked up on that one particular sentence exactly what I meant by it.

[Spider AL]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft:

 

I can simply say "sorry, according to my code of 'honourz', I am a Sith Lord/Aurra Sing/Boba Fett/your worst nightmare, and therefore honor has no place in my character. I am indeed adhering to the Star Warz univerze, because when I watched the movie, I know DAMN well that Jango Fett did not play fair, nor did he bow to Mace Windu before having his head cut off!"

Hmm, honour is very important to me when I play online, so I'm saddened to see that the fanboys have almost succeeded in making it a dirty word.

 

Honour is:

 

Not swearing. (edit: Not screaming profanities at other players when they beat you or you beat them, that is)

Not abusing other players textually.

Not cheating.

Not being a hypocrite.

Not forcing your own rules of play onto others.

Not whining.

 

That's honour. Fanboys don't know the meaning of the word.

 

Originally posted by leXX:

 

Which is why I made it clear in all my posts after you picked up on that one particular sentence exactly what I meant by it.

Perhaps so, though there is clear and then there is clear. If I were you I would have edited it out and posted a retraction, but now that you've made it totally clear that you didn't mean it, there's no need for any more argument, and we're talking on the same page, right?

[leXX]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Hmm, honour is very important to me when I play online, so I'm saddened to see that the fanboys have almost succeeded in making it a dirty word.

 

Honour is:

 

Not swearing. (edit: Not screaming profanities at other players when they beat you or you beat them, that is)

Not abusing other players textually.

Not cheating.

Not being a hypocrite.

Not forcing your own rules of play onto others.

Not whining.

 

That's honour. Fanboys don't know the meaning of the word.

 

I totally agree with this. Perhaps I have misunderstood exactly what you consider a 'fanboy' to be. Explain to me what you think a 'fanboy' is.

[Spider AL]

I totally agree with this. Perhaps I have misunderstood exactly what you consider a 'fanboy' to be. Explain to me what you think a 'fanboy' is.

Well a lot of fans who don't use the term "fanboy" a lot tend to think it refers just to fans. But it doesn't of course, I'm a Star Wars fan myself, a proper fan, dedicated to trivia and to a certain extent, sad.

 

But fans are good people. Fanboys are completely separate.

 

Who knows how the word came into popular use. Someone suggested recently that the word "fanboy" might have arisen when people needed to describe IMMATURE fans, hence the word "boy." So fanboys describe immature fans... people who have a limited knowledge of the subject they profess to be a fan of, and behave in a very immature fashion.

 

And since Jedi Outcast, fanboy has been used to describe those players who whine a lot, and use sort of flimsy Star Wars excuses to bolster their whining.

 

For example: A fanboy is the type of person who might get killed, and whine saying "you're a lamer!" when they're asked WHY they called their killer a lamer, they'd say something like "coz that dont happen in the films" or something of that sort. They usually band together and kickvote the people that beat them off the server, and then wander round spinning and bowing and amkissing, because they really don't enjoy playing the game properly, and just use it to while away their time and, yes, to roleplay to a certain extent. (Ronin, I'm not calling them pure RPGers, mind you. )

 

The main behaviour that defines a fanboy is: The fanboy will attempt to force some sort of wierd rule onto whatever public server they join. Like bowing, but even worse: Duels on the platform in a guns FFA. And as extreme as "no gunz" on a guns-ffa or ctf public server.

 

And fanboy-players have infested ALL gaming communities, but they're most concentrated in the JO community for obvious reasons.

[leXX]

Well thank you for clearing that up. I have a feeling we have been arguing over nothing. I thought you considered all people who bowed a fanboy, and that is what I was defending as someone who bowed and is proud of that fact.

[Aoshi]

lol the other day i was playing on jedibattlefield jk2++ server and i was just messing around sniping people. then one guy goes "i really hate it when people script their snipes i mean god cant they just get some skill?" so naturally i just ignored him and kept sniping him and he kept complaining saying that i have a snipe scripted blah blah blah. so then i finally get fed up with him and ask "do you know what a script actually is?" and he says "yea you're hacking your snipes so that you always hit me and i cant dodge." now... in JK2++ snipes always penetrate saber defense and the only way to avoid the is by using seeing. also if he actually knew what a SCRIPT is he'd know that it's impossible to script snipes. this is an example of a fanboy an immature player who makes baseless accusations because his own skill is vastly inferior to the skill level of others and must console himself by deluding himself into believing that everyone else hacks/cheats/scripts. these people then band together and votekick others from playing simply because they are superior gamers.

[nova_wolf]

It is annoying, but ultimately, what can you do. They are not likely to change if we simply take the bait (I am sure that some of these little buggers do it to try andget a rise out of the veteran players)

 

As with most bullies, dumb asses and lamers, the only way to get the message across is to boycott them and their friends and servers. They will happily play in their own groups, get bored senseless, and give up when no new competition is forth coming.

 

As long as we PROPOERLY honourable players such as yourselves stick together on this, and dont arrgravate the problem, they will figure it out, and stay clear. If they do venture out, then NAIL THEM, but else leave them be.

 

It just one of those little things which are small, but are so INCREDIBLY annoying that it just isnt right in the cosmic scheme of things.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

I only see logic in the following:

 

Acceptable behavior starts and ends with the server owners and/or admins assigned by the server owners. For better or for worse a person's server is their own purchased and maintained virtual world where user particpation is voluntary.

 

All behavior on servers is approved either directly or indirectly by the admins. On one end of the spectrum you'll find servers with clearly marked, explicit rules enforced by admins that regularly watch the server like hawks. On the other, servers completely devoid of any admin presence where the only rules are actually the server settings selected when the multiplayer game was created (voting, friendly saber, allow saber lock, etc).

 

For the latter, it's worth pointing out that if a server has no admin presence and has voting enabled, you can bet the majority is going to rule. Not that the majority or their playstyle is any more valid than any other group or playstyle. It's just that what someone wants can become irrelevant in the face of explicit server rules, general server settings, and whimsicial, immature, or unintelligent admins.

 

I've resigned myself to the fact that all types of server admins will enact their right to mold their virtual domain as they see fit. Most of the time this means they'll do something I don't approve of and don't want to be around. The server has then lost my patronage and I move on. Rinse. Repeat.

 

This day and age it's a frustrating, time-consuming process to find a good public server for any fps given my attitudes and playstyle. That I can no longer find a good public server with the frequency that I used to is a bitter pill to swallow. Perhaps I'm not doing enough but that is my reality; my expectations couldn't get much lower in this regard.

 

My guess is that more people play JO and will play JA on public servers as "fanboys" or what have you than as clanners or fps purists. Again, I'm not campaigning to win the hearts and minds of one group or another here; this is a simple reality of numbers. If the latter groups are concerned about their representation on servers as part of the JA community, I hope their expectations are grounded enough to expect a long hard struggle ahead of them.

 

edit: spelling

[eastcoast2895]

i was just wondering if any fanboys would like to defend themselves in their actions, fanboys meaning the ppl who go onto servers w/ no rules about lightsaber off = peace or those who won't fight when ppl don't bow.

[yolkboy]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

I have fond memories of joining a full-force guns server, getting a few kills, then mysteriously getting kicked (incidently, can we have a proper kick message? i'm sick of the vague "server disconnected"), I rejoin and ask why I was kicked and they said it was because I was using a gun.

 

Now when I originally joined the server there was no greet message, nobody complained when I killed them, I just got kicked after about a minute... for using a gun on a full-force guns-enabled server...

 

Yeah, I would like a proper kick message as well. Heh, it still happens to me today. I've made many enemies just because they were killed by me. It doesn't matter how. They just whine about how I'm a noob because I killed them with (insert weapon here).

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by Krayt Tion

I only see logic in the following:

 

Acceptable behavior starts and ends with the server owners and/or admins assigned by the server owners. For better or for worse a person's server is their own purchased and maintained virtual world where user particpation is voluntary.

 

All behavior on servers is approved either directly or indirectly by the admins. On one end of the spectrum you'll find servers with clearly marked, explicit rules enforced by admins that regularly watch the server like hawks. On the other, servers completely devoid of any admin presence where the only rules are actually the server settings selected when the multiplayer game was created (voting, friendly saber, allow saber lock, etc).

 

For the latter, it's worth pointing out that if a server has no admin presence and has voting enabled, you can bet the majority is going to rule. Not that the majority or their playstyle is any more valid than any other group or playstyle. It's just that what someone wants can become irrelevant in the face of explicit server rules, general server settings, and whimsicial, immature, or unintelligent admins.

 

I've resigned myself to the fact that all types of server admins will enact their right to mold their virtual domain as they see fit. Most of the time this means they'll do something I don't approve of and don't want to be around. The server has then lost my patronage and I move on. Rinse. Repeat.

 

This day and age it's a frustrating, time-consuming process to find a good public server for any fps given my attitudes and playstyle. That I can no longer find a good public server with the frequency that I used to is a bitter pill to swallow. Perhaps I'm not doing enough but that is my reality; my expectations couldn't get much lower in this regard.

 

My guess is that more people play JO and will play JA on public servers as "fanboys" or what have you than as clanners or fps purists. Again, I'm not campaigning to win the hearts and minds of one group or another here; this is a simple reality of numbers. If the latter groups are concerned about their representation on servers as part of the JA community, I hope their expectations are grounded enough to expect a long hard struggle ahead of them.

 

edit: spelling

 

Fine words, but let me ask you this:

 

You acknowledge the fact that the server administrators are going to enforce rules, yet you can't seem to somewhat bend to accomodate? You can't reach some sort of a compromise with the staff and say that... you may be an ******* at times and have to take a few heads off of a few idiots from time to time?

 

Ahh, the endless scheme of what ifs...

 

However, there's no better way to coin the downfall of JKII. Right now everyone's blame is focused on the fanboys and their extensive rules. I believe, on the other hand, that everyone here played a part of the downfall of JKII in one way for another. While the fanboys were creating a emotional hurricane of epic proportions, the ones who knew what they were talking out were pushed to the backburner. I think too much went on in terms of public opinion, that we now fight with glowsticks, not the representation of a weapon from an age's past.

 

The divisions with the mod community didn't help much either.

 

I just find it trivial and somewhat amusing that there are people in this very thread that are trying to pinpoint the source of the problem on just one distinct theory, and put the rest on the backburner just as fast as they (Raven and LucasArts) did to those who had reasonable arguements in terms of the roughshod patches.

 

If you want to solve the problem, you got to get to equal grounds on what the problem is in the first place.

 

I don't see that happening here...

 

EDIT: Oh, and Aoshi, I think now would be the proper time to bring out the STFU n00b flash.

[Moradivh]

Good post Rad.

 

Now here's the problem (hehehe): JO has two totally contradictory player groups: the COMPETITIVE player and the FRIENDLY player. This isn't to say competitive players can't be friendly -- I'm defining friendly players as people who expect friendly, chatty, slow-paced gameplay (*yawn*), and wish to enforce it.

 

Anyways, like it or not, there's gonna be alot of fanboys around in JA. You can't screen em' out, and Raven wouldn't want to in the first place. But.... I think if both player types had an institution in JO, and stopped butting heads, then they could tolerate each other, and you'd probably see alot more "friendly" players trying competition. But as it stands they all use the same gametype. There's often no way of knowing what you'll find when you join a server, so there's constant conflicts. Now, when friendly players get bored of their servers, they're already too bitter and hateful of the "lamers" to try playing competitively. So they quit the game. I think we're seeing a fatal cut in the community that's keeping most newbies from ever becoming skilled, or even learning the meaning of the word.

 

IMO, Raven has to make an official distinction between these two castes. In-game, where nobody can miss it. After all, JO is really a completely different game for each of these two groups, even if the game's settings are identical. Sadly we can discuss how people feel on these forums, make websites about the problem, try to educate the hordes of fan-brats, but the bulk of them aren't going to read any of this and we'll have the same problems in JA as JO.

 

But what if, in JA's Game Creation menu, Raven added a small comsmetic option at the top of the screen? I'm not talking about anything that seriously alters game settings. It's mostly there so n00b players have to SEE the distinction.

 

What if you could toggle "Friendly Game" or "Competitive Game" in the host options? In big, colorful, important-looking letters, so the newbies couldn't miss it. I know it'd be really condescending for you decent players, but think of the advantages! The in-game browser would show the distinction, so skilled players would know which servers were for n00bs. And if any fan-brats joined our games and bitched about "no honor," we could just say "competitive game, n00b. You're looking for a friendly game." Then they'd notice the huge, bold text, and feel embarassed, and probably steer clear until they got bored of their friendly servers.

 

JO already has a training mode, but most fanboys don't even know it exists, and even if they did they probably wouldn't use it. They DO want to fight after all, and kill each other, but only in a slow, tedious chatty fashion. And if they could actually put a title in game creation called "FRIENDLY GAME," then I think most of our problems would be solved.

 

My only worry about this idea is griefers setting traps, creating a game labelled "friendly," and gang-raping every n00b that joins their server. This kind of behaviour would be extremely bad for the system, since it'd make everybody mistrust the designations and we'd be back to the situation in JO. So.... what if all players could use the "god mode" cheat in Friendly games, and maybe even squelch any player they want? That would allow all newbies to choose when they want to be attacked, and silence anyone who taunts them. That should keep friendly servers friendly.

 

*yawn* getting bored just thinking about it. Good thing I'll never play on one.

 

My only other solution to the fanboys is to remove voting from ALL gametypes. But I doubt that'll work, as fanboys can probably just mod the voting back in, or something similarly fascist.

[Guest Krayt Tion]

Rad, I can't say I understand your point.

 

I wasn't giving advice to Raven, I was speaking to the "competitive" players in this thread.

 

[shock ~ unnamed]

Since I run a "competitive only" server anyone who comes on my server and bows I can consider a "lamer" and ban them?

 

I can see it now “WTF can you believe this crap, some admin booted me just for bowing!?”

 

 

Sounds a little extreme right?

 

Not really.

Why?

We constantly get kicked just for playing.

 

And people wonder why we dislike fanboy saber noobies.

 

Take your codes of honor crap and stay on Omni mod servers please, we won’t bother you and you will never be plagued my masses of “lamers” ever again.

[Moradivh]

Unnamed:

Hehehe.... ok! Now both sides can waste 90% of their time joining servers and immediately getting booted. Rince, repeat! YAY! There's equality for ya!

 

Damn commies.

 

But seriously, I wish they were reading the forums right now, and they listened to you. But they won't. They're clueless, and aren't gonna understand unless it's written in crayon for them, in-game. That's what I figure anyway.

[Rad Blackrose]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

Since I run a "competitive only" server anyone who comes on my server and bows I can consider a "lamer" and ban them?

 

I can see it now “WTF can you believe this crap, some admin booted me just for bowing!?”

 

 

Sounds a little extreme right?

 

Not really.

Why?

We constantly get kicked just for playing.

 

And people wonder why we dislike fanboy saber noobies.

 

Take your codes of honor crap and stay on Omni mod servers please, we won’t bother you and you will never be plagued my masses of “lamers” ever again.

 

Funny how you are so ready to tread the same path they have already paved for you.

 

Let them bow, just don't take their whining when they get a strong slash to the head for it.

 

Sort of like taking the higher road, n'est pas?

[Moradivh]

Rad:

 

High road my ass. That's already been tried. To death. Works as good as Unnamed's plan, I expect. And the JO community's still in its death throes. Just as JA will be a year or so after release, looks like.

 

Maybe we should review what the "problem," is, just so we're all on the same track. Heheh.

[shock ~ unnamed]

umm I was being sarcastic.

We only kick/ban people when they reconnect/drop other players during duel mode.