Gameplay Suggestions

[Zodiac]

I wonder how the new collission detection for the saber is going to work. It was never 100% clear to me in JK2 if I hit someone with my saber or not.

[Guest Jolts]

collision on the saber will be the same. I think someone pages back people were talking about making wall run more effective, here is how another game made use of it

 

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=1724385&object_id=483294&channel_id=59&page_title=Crouching+Tiger%2C+Hidden+Dragon&adString=network%3Dign%26site%3Dpchub%26pagetype%3Dvideo&return_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpc.ign.com%2Fobjects%2F483%2F483294.html

[nomad]

I really, really hope that we can play Team Games without HAVING to use Player Models w/ the Team Colors.

The editing community goes to so much trouble to make all these great character models from the movies and then, if you want to play TeamFFA, you have to run around with a Red Darth Vader or a Luke Skywalker wearing Blue.

I don't get it.

They should simply include the Option to be able to play Team Games without requiring Team Colors.

Not being able to do that in JK2 really killed that whole realm of gameplay for me.

If I'm playing a Star Wars game... I want stormtroopers to be wearing white armor - PERIOD.

(Think about it... TeamFFA: Darth Maul vs. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon ; in JK2 if you do this, without editing all their skin files, you have a bunch of models that do not represent the characters from the movie at all)

 

BTW I'm very much looking forward to this game.

[MuDvAyNe]

how are ya gonna identify ur team mate eh?

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by nomad

I really, really hope that we can play Team Games without HAVING to use Player Models w/ the Team Colors.

The editing community goes to so much trouble to make all these great character models from the movies and then, if you want to play TeamFFA, you have to run around with a Red Darth Vader or a Luke Skywalker wearing Blue.

I don't get it.

They should simply include the Option to be able to play Team Games without requiring Team Colors.

Not being able to do that in JK2 really killed that whole realm of gameplay for me.

If I'm playing a Star Wars game... I want stormtroopers to be wearing white armor - PERIOD.

(Think about it... TeamFFA: Darth Maul vs. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon ; in JK2 if you do this, without editing all their skin files, you have a bunch of models that do not represent the characters from the movie at all)

 

BTW I'm very much looking forward to this game.

 

That has less to do with the concept of team colors (which I support) and more with the way the skins themselves were designed. If you skin your Darth Vader model to look like he's been coated in red paint, that's just the skin you're gonna have to play with. The other option is to reskin it, say, giving him a red cape instead of red everything, or red boots, or gauntlets, or what have you.

 

Team colors themselves isn't really the problem, it's the way that they're implemented on the models. I think what might work well is clear, but subtle team colors, so that you can tell who's on which team, but not have the look of the character really destroyed. Then again, the skins could just be ditched and we could just keep the big floating team icon over our heads instead.

[nomad]

About identifying teammates and opponents:

As long as you have the target indicators on, telling teammates from enemies is not a problem. There names would simply appear Red or Blue.

Also, if you choose (because it should only be a server-side option!) to allow non-team colors to play Team Games, then players should not be able to switch player models during the length of the game. Thus, remember who is on who's side, and you'll be OK.

Also I play with other players that enjoy, as I do, playing Star Wars Characters on the sides that they are on in the Movies.

It wouldn't be tremendously difficult to implement a Red"Dark Tag" and a Blue"Light Tag" for each and every player model in the game. This too could be a server-side determination. (Katarn = Light, Reborn = Dark, Dark Kyle = Dark, Vader = Dark, Luke = Light, etc.)

To say that it can't or shouldn't be an option just because of the inability to determine freind or foe by their Uniform seems quite silly to me. Those are obstacles easily overcome, especially verses the joy that it would bring to avoid the mandatory Team Colors issue. Even if no programming was done to overcome these obstacles, it is an option that is worth implementing for those that wish to do it. Is it really that bad of a thing to let people play Team Games with any Skins that they want, if they really want to?

 

And my issue IS exactly with having to use ANY form of Team Color. I do not wish to see any team color markings on any of these greatly detailed character models. Not even a small red or blue badge on Luke's chest. Nothing.

 

Again, I would only want to see this as an option, because I fully understand that many people play Team Games with masses of strangers, and that such already existing chaos added with unrecognizable teams would lead to a little too much confusion. Used in the proper circumstances it is a feature that without question (IMHO) should be included.

 

Remember, this option is intended for those players that really want to immerse themselves in the conflicts taken from the movies (and/or other sources). So, the issues that other types of players would have with this option should not prevent it's existance, as they simply would not use the Team Games without Team Colors Option.

The server could easily limit the Team Game to certain player models. There are people out their with more than half a brain that can implement fun little individualistic styles to their sessions. Allowing us to play as only Rebels vs. only Imperials in one session should not have to include Team Colors. Anyone can spot a Stormtrooper and recognise that he's not a Rebel Soldier, without the need for any Red or Blue markings.

 

-Unless of course he's Han in a stormtrooper disguise ... just kidding-

 

Seriously, I know there are a lot of people that never touched Team Games because of the "Team Colors Only" deal, I just don't know if there are any people that post around here that feel that way.

I hope I didn't over-emphasise my points. I'm just trying to get them across.

 

-nomad

 

MTFBWY

[shmacdonald's]

it would be nice if people who spend weeks trying to learn all the different light saber attacks can beat people who spend a couple hours learning how to kick and abuse the specials. i think everyone made it clear that they don't want this game to be another kickfest, but how about the specials? maybe having the specials use up force power will keep people from doing that running blue special (where they run towards you and hold down walk, then crouch, then forward and attack to do an almost instantaneous blue lunge). as for the yellow special or any other specials like that, taking out the ability to rotate during the move will allow it to be punishable if missed, just like the red special.

[Luc Solar]

We shouldn't be too focused on JO. I doubt we'll have f.ex "the blue lunge" in JA.

 

There is no problem with stuff like the lunge or any special attack if sabers are deadly. What you're suggesting is the exact same thing that horribly screwed up JO: NERF EVERYTHING.

 

If the blue lunge kills, fine. As long as I can sidestep it and land a perfectly normal saber swing cutting the guy's head off...

 

*Lethal Sabers* is the answer to most problems.

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by Luc Solar

If the blue lunge kills, fine. As long as I can sidestep it and land a perfectly normal saber swing cutting the guy's head off...

 

Hey now, keep it quiet. These guys may actually learn that you could side step those things if you keep posting stuff like that.

 

But whatever you do, don’t tell them that run + strafe keys can make you avoid 100% of any saber attack aimed at you.

 

We have to keep them under our oppressive veil of lameness.

 

 

[shmacdonald's]

shock's under the impression that there is no way to fake an opponent and set him up perfectly for a blue lunge. and i'm not talking about totally nerfing these specials or their damage, just have some way for missed specials to be more punishable. the red special's fine, but i can rotate the saber in the yellow special and keep my opponents from counter-attacking and the blue special doesn't give time for anything else but a tap on the back in blue stance, which barely does any damage. but ya, i think that increasing the damage of the saber would make people think twice about abusing a special that could leave them open for a damaging attack. and again, taking out the ability to rotate while doing moves like the yellow special would make things fair.

 

also, i forgot to mention the problems with drain. you can survive easily and keep at full health for as long as you need with 3 or 4 bars of force, if you don't mind using cheese tactics. just keep your opponent away from you but where you can still drain him, which is more than enough distance for you to avoid anything he can throw at you. speed+absorb might work, but it isn't the hardest thing in the world to avoid someone until his absorb wears out, then drain until you leave him with a small amount of force, which you can constantly drain until you get to full health. i think reducing the range of drain or making it use up more force would solve this problem.

[shock ~ unnamed]

I'm not under any impression I was being sarcastic.

 

Nothing is wrong with lunge, it can and is side stepped by fast/smart players all the time.

 

If you walk into one or get *tricked into walking into one it's no different than walking into any other hit. You have no one to blame but yourself.

 

Right now it is perfectly balanced. You have to get close to use it so if you miss, there is a 99.9% chance you are going to be drilled in the side/back if you miss. That is assuming your opponent is of mediocre skill and sees the chance to counter.

 

 

As for drain a perfect counter would be to simply make heal work the same way. Let lights heal 4 hp at a time the way darks can by simply holding a button down.

 

But as for 1.04 as it is, here is a little secret.

 

The best and I do mean the *best counter in full force dueling for drain is...

 

Mind trick.

 

No joke.

 

I made up a small strategy revolving around mind trick as a joke a while back but it turned out to be incredibly effective when used properly.

 

There is a player on our team by the name of shock ~ screed.

 

Come to our server some time and try to drain whore him.

 

You won't believe how ridiculously ineffective drain is against this guy using mind trick of all things.

 

And I'm not talking about just playing against average players on public servers, this has proven to work against competition level/ladder players who base 75% of the strategy around drain whoring.

 

My point?

 

There is a counter for everything, you just have to put some thought into the game and make it/find it.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by nomad

About identifying teammates and opponents:

As long as you have the target indicators on, telling teammates from enemies is not a problem. There names would simply appear Red or Blue.

Also, if you choose (because it should only be a server-side option!) to allow non-team colors to play Team Games, then players should not be able to switch player models during the length of the game. Thus, remember who is on who's side, and you'll be OK.

Also I play with other players that enjoy, as I do, playing Star Wars Characters on the sides that they are on in the Movies.

It wouldn't be tremendously difficult to implement a Red"Dark Tag" and a Blue"Light Tag" for each and every player model in the game. This too could be a server-side determination. (Katarn = Light, Reborn = Dark, Dark Kyle = Dark, Vader = Dark, Luke = Light, etc.)

To say that it can't or shouldn't be an option just because of the inability to determine freind or foe by their Uniform seems quite silly to me. Those are obstacles easily overcome, especially verses the joy that it would bring to avoid the mandatory Team Colors issue. Even if no programming was done to overcome these obstacles, it is an option that is worth implementing for those that wish to do it. Is it really that bad of a thing to let people play Team Games with any Skins that they want, if they really want to?

 

And my issue IS exactly with having to use ANY form of Team Color. I do not wish to see any team color markings on any of these greatly detailed character models. Not even a small red or blue badge on Luke's chest. Nothing.

 

Again, I would only want to see this as an option, because I fully understand that many people play Team Games with masses of strangers, and that such already existing chaos added with unrecognizable teams would lead to a little too much confusion. Used in the proper circumstances it is a feature that without question (IMHO) should be included.

 

Remember, this option is intended for those players that really want to immerse themselves in the conflicts taken from the movies (and/or other sources). So, the issues that other types of players would have with this option should not prevent it's existance, as they simply would not use the Team Games without Team Colors Option.

The server could easily limit the Team Game to certain player models. There are people out their with more than half a brain that can implement fun little individualistic styles to their sessions. Allowing us to play as only Rebels vs. only Imperials in one session should not have to include Team Colors. Anyone can spot a Stormtrooper and recognise that he's not a Rebel Soldier, without the need for any Red or Blue markings.

 

-Unless of course he's Han in a stormtrooper disguise ... just kidding-

 

Seriously, I know there are a lot of people that never touched Team Games because of the "Team Colors Only" deal, I just don't know if there are any people that post around here that feel that way.

I hope I didn't over-emphasise my points. I'm just trying to get them across.

 

-nomad

 

MTFBWY

 

http://clanioj.tripod.com/teamenergize.zip

 

download this and watch the demo. do you find yourself confident enough that you would not kill teammates during all that? much less the more common 5v5s?

[shock ~ unnamed]

Don't waste your time rumor.

Remember these are the "it needs to be more like the movies" crowd.

 

No matter what points you try to make about game play from the perspective of people who play it more seriously then any others, all they see is "<our suggestions here> will destroy the very fabric of the star wars universe and must be stopped!"

[Rumor]

so true >8(

[nomad]

LOL

so truley pathetic.

It must be tough being such an elitist.

It's amazing that some people would have the audacity to desire something that you think totally useless.

Read my words and please recoginze that I DO understand the differences between practicality and desirability, and that I, for one, feel that certain options are worthwile as long as they are ONLY OPTIONAL.

 

Quick categorization is the science of the foolish. I shall not quickly categorize either of you as fools.

 

Rumor,

about the difficulty... I know. I'm not sure how well I'd do. I do think it's funny that many seem to be so reliant on team colors in order to enjoy that type of game. I mean, not everything in video games should have to be ultra-realistic, but are you telling me that it cannot be fun to play a death match with teams when your opponents are not easily identified by the color of their clothes. That just seems a little too simplistic for me to believe. I think gamers are intelligent enough to adapt and the game would just evolve into a slower, make certain you know who your aiming at, style of play. Again, I believe team colors should be there for those not interested in any changes...

but please tell me why it should not be an OPTION to play without them.

 

I'd rather disuss this than simply turn my mind off to any opposing views.

[shock ~ unnamed]

Originally posted by nomad

 

It must be tough being such an elitist.

 

 

No not really, it just gets annoying when people who don't play on a competitive level or possess 1/8 of the knowledge of game mechanics that we do constantly tell us they know what would be best for us.

 

I do think it's funny that many seem to be so reliant on team colors in order to enjoy that type of game. I mean, not everything in video games should have to be ultra-realistic, but are you telling me that it cannot be fun to play a death match with teams when your opponents are not easily identified by the color of their clothes. That just seems a little too simplistic for me to believe. I think gamers are intelligent enough to adapt and the game would just evolve into a slower, make certain you know who your aiming at, style of play.

 

Slower = nerfing = the crap we have now = bad direction to go in = learn from history or be doomed to... you know the rest.

 

In a Full Force saber only team based match only one of three things is going to make team 1 stand out from team 2.

 

1-Team Colors

 

2-*Large visible Team Icons

 

3-Totally different player models. And when I say different I mean Jabba the Hutt's on one team, little tiny Yoda's on the other.

Having a rebel army guy and an imperial army guy or similar shaped/size models would be total chaos w/o the colors or icons.

 

 

In other games like counter-strike you can have multiple player models on each team and no color bands or icons and still identify friend from foe.

 

Why?

 

Because no one in counter-strike is constantly flashing blue and green and there are not giant red arcs of drain filling up the entire screen.

 

A no force team match could be done w/o colors or icons but for full force, sorry, it is needed.

[Rumor]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

No not really, it just gets annoying when people who don't play on a competitive level or possess 1/8 of the knowledge of game mechanics that we do constantly tell us they know what would be best for us.

 

 

 

Slower = nerfing = the crap we have now = bad direction to go in = learn from history or be doomed to... you know the rest.

 

In a Full Force saber only team based match only one of three things is going to make team 1 stand out from team 2.

 

1-Team Colors

 

2-*Large visible Team Icons

 

3-Totally different player models. And when I say different I mean Jabba the Hutt's on one team, little tiny Yoda's on the other.

Having a rebel army guy and an imperial army guy or similar shaped/size models would be total chaos w/o the colors or icons.

 

 

In other games like counter-strike you can have multiple player models on each team and no color bands or icons and still identify friend from foe.

 

Why?

 

Because no one in counter-strike is constantly flashing blue and green and there are not giant red arcs of drain filling up the entire screen.

 

A no force team match could be done w/o colors or icons but for full force, sorry, it is needed.

 

couldn't have said it better myself.

 

 

 

*ot: permission to quote ur sig in my sig?

[nomad]

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

No not really, it just gets annoying when people who don't play on a competitive level or possess 1/8 of the knowledge of game mechanics that we do constantly tell us they know what would be best for us.

 

Who is telling who what would be best for anybody? I suggest that what you enjoy is probably best for you (within the realm of video games).

 

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

Slower = nerfing = the crap we have now = bad direction to go in = learn from history or be doomed to... you know the rest.

 

I don't think that slowing, in this case, should be considered "nerfing" at all. No, when blast bullets are slowed down- now that is nerfing, but making the game harder to determine enemies = nerfing? I disagree.

 

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed

In a Full Force saber only team based match only one of three things is going to make team 1 stand out from team 2.

 

1-Team Colors

 

2-*Large visible Team Icons

 

3-Totally different player models. And when I say different I mean Jabba the Hutt's on one team, little tiny Yoda's on the other.

Having a rebel army guy and an imperial army guy or similar shaped/size models would be total chaos w/o the colors or icons.

 

 

In other games like counter-strike you can have multiple player models on each team and no color bands or icons and still identify friend from foe.

 

Why?

 

Because no one in counter-strike is constantly flashing blue and green and there are not giant red arcs of drain filling up the entire screen.

 

A no force team match could be done w/o colors or icons but for full force, sorry, it is needed.

 

Clearly these are the main reasons that the normal, chaotic method of playing Team Games requires Team Colors. Clearly that is why I do not believe for one second that Team Colors should be removed from the game.

 

Please answer why it should not be an OPTION to include Non-Team-Color Team-Games.

Do you believe it is too much programming for something that would never be used? Or, if used, it would ruin all the involved players' experience of running Team Games so that they'd never try it again?

Most players that would be confused by the options would never click off the default of having Team-Colors ON. So, I doubt people would be crying about how Team Games suck because they can't identify allies from enemies. They'd just play with Team Colors On.

 

While I love how you have classified me and many others into nice little categories, I would like to remind you that these games don't just sell to people with your tastes. There are many people that only play SP and never touch MP (as well as the other way around, of course). There are also many people that only play MP against bots and never compete online. There are people that enjoy all these differing styles of play at different points in time. These people are no lesser than any other type of player, just as the category you consider yourself to be in is no lesser than any other one either. You must realize this before you post replies about how your way of thinking is right and how others' are simply wrong.

 

Why the "*" next to large visible team icons? Because you figure they'd have to be ridiculously big to be effective? Or was there another note you wanted to attach to that? Just curious

[Rumor]

he uses that for emphasis instead of caps or some other method

[toms]

armour would be nice, especially for non-jedi.

[ALT+F4]

I got Outcast the day it came out...Loved it! played it almost every night! then came the patches...played for another month and finaly said screw it!!! its all becasue the damn pull/push and rage!...her is what i say should be done for JK3

 

1.Bring back Concusion rifle

2. Push pull MUST have a targeting system

3.Faster rockets

4. BIG Maps!

5. Pilotable vehicles

6. good old prox mines and remote det mines

7. RELEASE THE SDK!!!!!!

8. Grapple hook

 

 

Mods will keep this game going...and i mean good mods...Look at the Origional Jedi Knight!!!

Man the mods released for JK2 are not that great compaired to other games, but its not the modders faults, they dont have mutch to work with!!

[Bottletop]

what's with all the patch bashing. 1.04 turned an ok game into a kick ass ggame. 1.02 was all about dfas and it was kinda lame. 1.03 the spinning scripted backstab, and 1.04 the perfectly balanced patch

[Obi-Wan X]

I myself would suggest keeping team colors on, it makes sense to be able to visually see who is on your team or not. I'd much rather look at colors then stare at text over a persons head in which shows team or anything like that. Though I suppose a blue or red triangle over a team mate and opponents head wouldn't be to bad.

 

I really hope the lightsaber combat is changed, slow, medium and fast aren't really styles, they are imo just the same thing except slow. Though they obviously have their own special moves and what not that can be done with them, but their just isn't an exceptionally large difference. Let's take into example the single bladed lightsaber( if any of this has been mentioned I apologize), I would like to see perhaps three UNIQUE styles for it, with each style having the ability for Fast, Medium, or slow, or perhaps a choice of all three. Im not exactly sure of exactly what kind of styles, but their are so many different forms of sword combat that this could be done.

 

I think that a parry/counter system should be put in. A manual button that doesn't really block bolts or anything of the kind, just a button that, when timed PERFECTLY, when a lightsaber hits your blade a few times you hit the button, and perhaps do a counter that will either throw the lightsaber from their hands, make them automatically engage in a saber lock, or simply get in for a quick hit. Obviously it has some flaws, but I would like to have some manner of better defense that I can control , other than simply positioning myself in front of their attacks and automatically blocking.

 

The rail detonator from JK certainly is not useless, perhaps turning it into an automatic rocket launcher would be nice, with the ability to either stick on to opponents or fire rockets rapidly, not as fast as an e-11, but faster than the current rocket launcher, but with less accuracy and less damage.

 

I really don't have to many suggestions as far as lightstaff and twin saber combat goes, I don't have any idea how it will work. Though lightstaff should be at an extreme disadvantage when dealing with gun users imo. Also, DO NOT INCLUDE lightstaffs, twinsabers, and lightsabers in multiplayer levels for usual pickup!!! This way their is more diversity and thought into what a player will use, i'd hate to see people fighting with a lightsaber and then immediately switch to a lightstaff.

 

I don't know about including the ability to steal an opponents lightsaber in JA, consider a character does something to make their lightsaber fly from their hands. Then using force pull to make them have two blades ( though obviously he did not have a lightstaff), causing the opponent to result to guns. Though that wouldn't be to good, you'd have people whining about people stealing weapons as often as people whined about people using backstap and dfa. It'd probably become just as common as those as well. Not to mention what if this is a duel, or perhaps a lightsaber only ffa.

 

I don't know

[B00thbe]

I think jacking up people's sabers would create even more n00b riots then there already are in jk2.

[Ken Kasanagi]

I think that a parry/counter system should be put in. A manual button that doesn't really block bolts or anything of the kind, just a button that, when timed PERFECTLY, when a lightsaber hits your blade a few times you hit the button, and perhaps do a counter that will either throw the lightsaber from their hands, make them automatically engage in a saber lock, or simply get in for a quick hit. Obviously it has some flaws, but I would like to have some manner of better defense that I can control , other than simply positioning myself in front of their attacks and automatically blocking.

 

i posted that sumwhere in another thread...finally sum 1 agrees with me hahaha