Himmler1 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 would make moves more stylish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by Matariel PS. What are you talking about? Max payne graphics suck compared to q3? are you mad!?!? That game rocked, graphics were excellent. But the jacket was preanimated, not simulated, sorry. Even that would do me. Some kind of movement would be better than nothing, and if it means cutting down on the overheads in terms of framerate, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 Exactly, that would be good enough. Some type of clothing movement. I'am thinking of when dooku was on that one hover bike and his cape was flowing, that is what I'am looking for. You could have 3 animation sets. One for basic movment, another for a mild breeze, and a final one for strong wind. BTW: Max payne graphics were terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 What the engine can handle isn't an issue. If they wanted to implement that, they would make the engine handle it. If you're going to bother with free flowing clothes, then they might as well take another year in development to recreate the physics engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted April 19, 2003 Author Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by Emon If you're going to bother with free flowing clothes, then they might as well take another year in development to recreate the physics engine. Did you bother to read this thread. I don't believe entire sets of physics methods will be required. Bone skeletons and existing physics could accomplish what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 basically simulated clothing physics are out- its not really viable but animating the cloth manually is definitely a possibility. Raven may use mo-cap clothing on top of their existing skeleton, takes less effort to manually key-frame the whole thing... But thats if the characters in JA will have long coats or capes or whatever- i havent seen screenshots with clothing like this yet, only shirts/pants etc etc... Jedi should have those wicked capes though My only hope is that if Raven dont put in animated clothing (just the long flowing robes and such), they leave the animation format open for people to do it themselves. A friend of mine thinks every game should be 'open-source', but i tell him how unrealistic that is, but i think developers that make games should make them as 'moddible' as possible, short of releasing the engine source-code or anything like that. PS. Was the USA version of Max Payne different from the 'rest of world' version? It has excellent graphics, waay better than quake3. The particle engine was very very cool, jk2 particles suck (if you can get the map entity working :/) Textures nice and sharp, the 'bullet-time' feature made the game fun, the explosions, the fire effects...Whats not to like? And seriously, if it were any game to have simulated clothing, Max Payne engine could do it, the physics engine they've got in there now is great too. PPS. I also love the 'graphic novel' story device JK2 story and SP suck suck suck compared to Max Payne...now only if max could get a lightsaber.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by Matariel Raven may use mo-cap clothing on top of their existing skeleton, takes less effort to manually key-frame the whole thing... I certainly hope so. Mo-cap often looks far better than manually animated stuff. A key example is the cut scenes in JO...if they'd been mo-capped the characters would have been a lot better. They obviously used mo-cap for NOLF2's cut scenes, and they were excellent, IMHO. I only wish JA can achieve that kind of quality, but I have serious doubts. Anyway, mo-capped cloth for standard anims gets my vote. PS. Was the USA version of Max Payne different from the 'rest of world' version? It has excellent graphics, waay better than quake3. The particle engine was very very cool, jk2 particles suck (if you can get the map entity working :/) Textures nice and sharp, the 'bullet-time' feature made the game fun, the explosions, the fire effects...Whats not to like? And seriously, if it were any game to have simulated clothing, Max Payne engine could do it, the physics engine they've got in there now is great too. PPS. I also love the 'graphic novel' story device JK2 story and SP suck suck suck compared to Max Payne...now only if max could get a lightsaber.... Max Payne was good, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I'd hoped. The graphics were very good at the highest possible settings (although I had to turn them down due to my system), but as for the rest of the game...it was far too linear and limiting for my tastes, with some poor rat-in-a-maze level design. The graphic novel style cut scenes were good...but were let down by some horrendously cheesy voice acting and dialogue. And the main character's looks in the cut scenes just didn't seem to fit with the voice. I hope they correct a lot of things in Max Payne 2...but I won't hold my breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smood Posted April 20, 2003 Author Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by Matariel basically simulated clothing physics are out- its not really viable but animating the cloth manually is definitely a possibility. Raven may use mo-cap clothing on top of their existing skeleton, takes less effort to manually key-frame the whole thing... But thats if the characters in JA will have long coats or capes or whatever- i havent seen screenshots with clothing like this yet, only shirts/pants etc etc... Jedi should have those wicked capes though My only hope is that if Raven dont put in animated clothing (just the long flowing robes and such), they leave the animation format open for people to do it themselves. A friend of mine thinks every game should be 'open-source', but i tell him how unrealistic that is, but i think developers that make games should make them as 'moddible' as possible, short of releasing the engine source-code or anything like that. PS. Was the USA version of Max Payne different from the 'rest of world' version? It has excellent graphics, waay better than quake3. The particle engine was very very cool, jk2 particles suck (if you can get the map entity working :/) Textures nice and sharp, the 'bullet-time' feature made the game fun, the explosions, the fire effects...Whats not to like? And seriously, if it were any game to have simulated clothing, Max Payne engine could do it, the physics engine they've got in there now is great too. PPS. I also love the 'graphic novel' story device JK2 story and SP suck suck suck compared to Max Payne...now only if max could get a lightsaber.... WTF! Firstly JK2 particles are FAR SUPERIOR to maxpayne's particle crap. Max payne graphics are/were crap. WHATS NOT TO LIKE? ANIMATION! Try firing the dual berettas, he does it in such a homosexual manner its not even funny. Granted Max has its good points, but to compare it to JK2 on any level is stupid. The JK2 story is even far superior to maxpaynes valkyr crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jolts Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 if you think jo has better graphics over max payne your blind. Only thing it has over max payne is 3000 poly models. Max payne had a better shadow, lighting, shader and animation system. If i remember right max payne had some sort of radiosity lighting, what does jo have? Animation is jo is nothing special, mocap was dirty and the walk cycle animation looks more like it was done by a girl. I don't know about you guys, but my ass doesn't swish that much when I walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Originally posted by Jolts Animation is jo is nothing special, mocap was dirty and the walk cycle animation looks more like it was done by a girl. I don't know about you guys, but my ass doesn't swish that much when I walk. Hmmm...before this turns into a JO vs Max Payne debate (and I do hope it doesn't *hint hint*), are you trying to tell me there was mo-cap in JO? Because if there was...I didn't recognise it. I'd have to agree the walk/run animation in 3rd person looks a bit odd at times. All the more reason to have a robe or something to cover it up. Having said that...if a robe was quite long, it might be a bit dull seeing the same brown/black mass all the time from a rear view. Perhaps a shorter cloak (almost knee length) would suffice - so you can still see your feet moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jolts Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 what looks odd about the walk cycle is you hold your arms way out like you have 2 midgets tucked under them, and your hips are real swishy. I know they have you holding your arms out more to avoid cliping on the bulky belt, but since they use the same walk for every character it doesn't match up right. What would help make things more interesting is if you have any sort of gun holster, or saber hanging off your belt, give it some secondary motion and detail things out a little more. Look at games like splinter cell for an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 i say put it in!!! clothes moving would be great, but for some reason i doubt they would do it,too bad, but hey, it would rock if they did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 You'd need more than bones for it to really work well and look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted April 23, 2003 Share Posted April 23, 2003 true, to get good looking flowing clothing it would have to be animated per-poly, or with a hell of a lot of bones...for a simple cape, 4 bones or even more would be needed at least. Secondary motion in the key with making it look realistic, the little flicks at the end of the fabric as it moves, the effect of inertia etc.. you cant animate that well with keyframe manual animation, mo-cap is really the only answer the JK2 mo-cap must have originally been done by a female 'actor' and because the skelington is applied to every model, the male models have a girly walk its pretty funny watching kyle and luke walk around in the SP cutscenes now that i think about it Ooh and by the way, at the risk of being slapped on the wrist by Stormhammer, JK2 single player storyline was crappy, everybody just step back and take a look at it, it really did suck. Thats not to say SP wasnt fun to play, the saber fights were really well done...its just the narrative before and after them sucked...i guess thats why i hate all of the EU stories, they just seem campy and crap compared to the movies, trying to tack on new baddies and making drama out of totally new characters, who dont have any development so you dont feel sympathy for them (oh no...jan is dead...<sigh>) Max Payne narrative style, as i said earlier, was excellent, and the storyline was great, full of mystery and suspense. JK2 always showed the baddies giving up their whole evil plans so there was nothing to look forward to when you beat a boss or whatever. And yeah, i played Max Payne with all settings cranked, as i do with JK2, and there's a marked difference. Play both games on full settings and you'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaledDur Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Well not just the cape/robe, but I'd like just a little movement in from the tunic and such. I just think it would improve immersion 1000% Originally posted by Matariel i guess thats why i hate all of the EU stories, they just seem campy and crap compared to the movies, trying to tack on new baddies and making drama out of totally new characters, who dont have any development so you dont feel sympathy for them Go read the books by Timothy Zhan, they're the only ones that wowed me. Others are entertaining, but his always left a lasting impression on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taekwondo joe Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Originally posted by Matariel (oh no...jan is dead...<sigh>) well, if you playd the, darkforces, and df 2, jedi knight, you would feel something for her, she is a cool character, but have you just played outcast?? outcast did have a crap story, but jk had really good one, so dont dis jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Originally posted by taekwondo joe so dont dis jk Never dis JK! All who dis JK shalt feel my wrath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 woah, calm down cowboy! Im not 'dissin' JK1, just jk2 SP...ive played both and from what i can remember jk1 had a way better story...well, up until my CD went cactus and i couldnt play it again...i really must replace it. And i know jan was in both other games, but there was no development at all, no backstory no inter-character relationships past the 'mission-at-hand'. Go play the Wing Commander series, and im talkin' WC1 WC2 and WC3 and WC4 (cos the last one sucked big time compared to the others) The characters gave all their story to you along the way, you really got a feel for the people you were fighting with. Why Hobbes, the big cat dude, was fighting against his own people, why Paladin is such a good mate of yours, and why your character (in 3 and 4, Chris Blair, AKA Mark Hamill AKA Luke "I'll always be typecasted" Skywalker) loved Angel...by the way, why was Angel Devaraux english in the movie, while in the game she was french? eh, off topic Just an example of a GOOD single player story, from the days where multiplayer was nonexistant so developers could devote more time to the game itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 JK's story wasn't that much better than JO's really. JK never, ever explained where any of the villans came from. Whoop! Out of no where come seven dark Jedi and are after the Valley of the Jedi. JO has some more background to do to help you understand exactly what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HertogJan Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Why should JO's should be worse than JK or even the movies?? SW stories aren't about complicated matter, they are about adventures. And JO WAS an adventure I think the story was ok, although I knew right away that Jan was still alive and I hated the purple monkey lizard I wanted some charismatic guy like Darth Vader (not him, but someone like him) to be your enemy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Yeah, JO lacked in the villan department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t3rr0r Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 how did a thread about clothing animations turn into a jedi knight storyline discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 it found a way... sorry, probably my fault anyways...clothing! there should be clothing on the characters in JA...moving clothing...i think we've run outta things to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modru2004 Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 speaking of engines. why didn't they move on to a newer engine? this is only game coming out that will probably be one of the good ones that isn't using a new engine. such as the unreal warfare engine. that would have been excellent for the job. while yes the q3 engine can be modified to do things well beyond its original capabilities, the unreal warfare engine would have been a much better canadite. way better graphics too lol. as for the clothes, go play ut2k3 and look at a flag, how sweet it would be to have clothes move even close to that smoothly. ohhhhhhhyeaa...... *drools* lol. ut2k3 runs great on a lot of systems actually. which is kinda suprising. so it would have been a much better engine to use. but this is my opinion. my guess is they used the q3 because they would have alot of the base work done that way. making for faster development. but thats not always a good thing, publisher may have caused them to come to this decision though. one good release doesn't guarantee another. we can only wait, and hope and hope and hope. im thinking jk3 will be sweet but time will tell. im like alot of u i want the game now!! but i drool when i think of the possiblities with another engine. and even if the devs don't include the clothes features im sure some happy modder will. they did it in max payne after all, and that engines how old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matariel Posted April 26, 2003 Share Posted April 26, 2003 #1: Engines cost money to licence #2: Raven probably still have a licence on the q3 engine to make a couple of more games from it #3: Making an in-house engine takes a lot of resources (time/money/people) #4: Unreal engines have sucked (in my opinion) ever since 'Unreal', the mapping method was different but never really got off the ground, but i just hate the way it uses textures (they're horribly mipped in Unreal1 engine games) Unreal2/UT2003 may look all 'pretty', but as for engine licencing that'll cost a bundle and as for modding it, forget about it if its anything like UT Plus, im hanging out for doom3, thats gunna break my current PC but, meh Carmack kicks the ass of all those thousands of monkeys coding unreal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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