question about christianity

[lukeskywalker1]

K, most people know im sort of very religious (or whatever you want to call it). And lots of people have asked me stuff, about God's power, evil, stuff like that, and now ive sort of seen things a little differently, and can answere questions a little better. Plus ive been reading a book, which seems to have a lot of good things in it. Ive learned, ive been wronge about certain things too. So now im going to try and correct these mistakes, and explain things to the people who challenge God.

 

Evil

 

Ive heard many people say, God made everything, so he must of made evil, then they say they dont want to follow a god like that.

But now I know God didnt make evil, before I didnt really know where evil came from, so I just said, Satan made evil, when he turned evil. But i was sort of right/wrong.

 

Its all about free will, and Satan. Yeah, weird huh? But heres the thing, Satan was the highest angel right?? God gave all the angels free will, icluding the will to rebell against him, if they so choose. Of course they could never overthrow God, but they could try. And thats what Satan did. You see, free will means, you can do what ever you want, including sin. So when Satan sinned, he became evil. Satan became to proud, because of his high position, and wanted more, so thats why he did what he did. He had everything, except ultimate power, he was the highest angel! And now he has lost everything! That explains it better, huh?

 

So, can Satan, and/or his followers go to Heaven?

 

No, my simple answere was, he screwed up, now he must be punished. Satan is now without an excuse, he rebelled, willingly, and so did his followers (demons). So, he became the essence of evil (this probably should have been put up there, but anyways). He has no knowledge of good. You know Satan, thoguht he had won the war, when Christ was crucified. If he had known, that it would deliver us from sins, he would have stopped the crucifiction. Understand? Why would Satan want to lose his followers (us, human beings, sinners) he didnt knwo that the crucifiction would save us from our sins.

 

Adam and Eve's temptation

 

Why was Satan allowed to test them. If they hadnt sinned no one would go to Hell right? True. We would be in the Garden of Eden. They had been made with Holy hearts, but also, free will. There hearts had to be tested. And sadly they failed.

 

Why is God, God?

 

why does he rule? easy, he is God, no one is strong enough to challenge him. (name someone you know who can challenge God and win!) he made everything (hey you made it, its your right?), And he has enough power to back up his claims.

 

probably one the most important questions:

 

Is God all powerfull, or is His sovereignty limited???

 

Hmmm, interesting question. My answere has always been, Yes he is all powerful, and he has no limititations, right? Thats sort of what ive said right? Well, looks like i was wronge..... :confused: (never thought you would hear me say that huh? I didnt think id say that, lets hope i can explain this right....)

 

God is all powerful, (i was right about that). He can do what he wants, but he chooses not to be... or he limits his sovereignty. His holiness limits his sovereignty. Yeah, I know weird, but shouldnt God do what is always right? If he didnt limit himself, couldnt he destroy the world *just like that*??? this is our proof that God will always do right. His love limits his sovereignty.God is love. This is so, he only punishhes lovingly. If he was not limited by love, he might get so angry, he might destroy us. This is proof that he is not a tyrant, or any kind of evil dictator. He cannot disown himself, or contradict himself. When people say hge made evil, he didnt, because that would mean the verse in the Bible which says God is love, would be wrong. Also free will limits it. He gave us free will, if he controled everything, we couldnt have free will. He lets things happen. (which i have said before) Sort of like, how you can thwart his will, say for instence, He says to do this, and you say no. So is he still in control? yeah, of course. Just because one person turns away, doesnt mean he just gives up. He always has a plan, and knows the next step. So then that means, that there are millions of possiblitlys. Think about the ammount of times that some people have disobeyed God, but more doors open up. Each pathway in our lives creates a different possible future, and God has a plan for each of them.

 

Why are humans here in the first place?

 

Like ive said before, God was lonley. He wanted somethign to fellowship with. In other words, he wanted a friend. But how fun is a robot? How good of a friend is a robot? it cant think, or feel, or laugh, or anything, it can only do what it is told to do. Thats not a friend, thats a slave, basically. So he gave us free will. A controlled being wouldnt make him happy. Only real love (that means, not forced love) can make him happy.

 

 

Jesus' pain

 

This is something ive heard a lot. "Christ didnt go through that much pain, thousands died on crosses, thats the same punishment Christ got" Yeah he died on a cross, but there was mroe punishment than that. Ive wanted to say this for a while, but never really had the chance to. (or at least since ive known about it)

 

There was more than just a cross. (this is a little gross, and lots of people dont like hearing about it) After some research i found out about this stuff. After this, I dont want anyone to ever say, Christ didnt go through a lot of pain.

 

 

1) He was beaten, not just a normal beating though. The men who beat him put on knuckled fists, the minimum ammount of men beating someone was six, so they beat him with knuckled fists! Imagine, being beaten by six or more men with knuckled fists! That would hurt a lot!

 

Mathew 26:67- Then the people there spat in Jesus's face and beat him with their fists. Others slapped him.

 

2) Then they whipped him. Just a normal whip hurts, but this was way worse, they put metal at the end of it. They whipped his back, shoulders, and legs. This kind of whipping caused blood to just pour down him. By the time they are done, the skin was just hanging off of him, and blood was pouring out. People could see his organs inside. Thats not what any paintings of him show carrying the cross huh?

 

Mathew 27:26- Then he set Barabbas free. But Jesus was beaten with whips and handed over to the soldiers to be crucified.

 

3) They put a crown of thorns on him, and put a red robe on him. Then they beat him with a stick on his head.

 

Mathew 27:28-30 They took off his clothes and put a red robe on him. Using thorny branches, they made a crown, put it on his head, and put a stick in his right hand. Then the soldiers bowed before Jesus and made fun of him, saying "Hail, King of the Jews!" They spat on Jesus. Then they took his stick and began to beat him on the head.

 

4) Then they crucified him. They took big nails, and nailed them through his hands, and feet to the cross. Imagine two huge nails going straight through your hands and feet! Then he got thirsty, and they gave him venegar to drink. Then when he died, one of the soldiers stuck a spear through his side, and blood and water came out. So he was dead.

 

 

So thats it, thats what he went through, not to mention people laughing at him while he was dying.

 

pretty bad huh?

 

ill post more later. Feel free to ask some questions, ill od my best to answere them.

 

-lukeskywalker1

 

 

"Scriptures quoted from The Holy Bible, New Century Version,

copyright © 1987, 1988, 1991 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas

75039. Used by permission."

 

Some info was rewritten, in my own words from the book "What every Christian Ought to Know, by, Richard S. Taylor.

[Tyrion]

Couldnt god simply use his powers to make himself happy? Without letting us have the option of damning us to eternal hell.

 

Besides, he sure isnt happy when more than half of the people he made goes to hell.

[lukeskywalker1]

He could, but what beats having a true friend? We had the option, but so did Satan, again...think about it. To truly be a friend and love someone, you have to have free will. We cant be forced, and have true love can we? Free will brings sin, as I said before, which has been shown to us by Satan, the Demons, and us, human beings. We dont have anything to stop us from sinning. The law can only do so much. But of course, just like the law, we are going to be punished for our sins. Doesnt the court send you to jail for stealing, or murder, and countless othert things? Its just like that with God, except, we can be forgiven, and we can escape doom because Jesus died for us.

 

In the end, free will gives us the option to sin. Satan fell, and he will pay the price, and we fell to, but, we have the option to turn back to God, or stay with our sinful ways. The choice is ours, its right there, take it!

 

back to questions:

 

Did Jesus really rise formt he dead?

 

Very good question right?

Very hard to prove too, but read this, I get some of my stuff from here:

 

http://www.fehq.org/public/arose.htm

 

-lukeskywalker1

[C'jais]

What makes you think God is real?

 

It's surely not because a book told you, is it? How does God feel to you?

[Mandalorian54]

That was really good lukeskywalker1, I'm glad to hear your beliefs and I think you did a good job of portraying them. Belief is somthing only you can choose for yourself, but I think you are mistaken in a few aspects.

 

First of all you already know I believe we don't have free will. Let me share a simple example of such. First of all are will has freedom, but ultimately it is a slave to our likes and dislikes. If you do not like the color red, sure you can choose to where the red shirt, but will you? NO! Your will does what your likes and dislikes determin. And SIN can influence likes and dislikes, for example Sin causes us to HATE God, and if you go up to a stranger on the street who has never heard the Gospel do you think he will accept christ right there? Not unless God has somewhat revealed himself and placed interest in the man. I'm not sure about you but I've never encountered a scripture saying we have free will.

 

I also believe God IS all powerfull. If God wanted to he could destroy the world, and he will on the FINAL day. God had a plan for everything, Satan's rebellion, Adams first sin, God knew that it was going to happen and he let it according to his ultimate and HOLY plan.

 

I'm sure we'll get even deeper into this and I await your reply. I also hope we can enjoy one anothers views in healthy discussion.

 

My sig is a song writen by a recent convert in the 70s, it's quite a famous song, I'm sure your pastor'll have heard of it.

 

I think I'll also bring up some verses in my next post to help clarify my views.

 

---------------------------------

 

What makes me think GOD is real? Well creation for one, the unique and complicated world before us can only have been created. And through prayer I have gotten to know him and have a good realationship with him, sure I can't see him, but I can feel him. And Jesus' death and resurection, Jesus did rise from the dead, it was recorded by 300 eye witnesses, not one of them ever said they had lied, not even when it meant death. And miracles for another, I know a woman who had a sinus infection, three different doctors said she would need surgery and it was cured at a revival in 10 minuets. And it's not just her word, it was documented.

[lukeskywalker1]

Originally posted by C'jais

What makes you think God is real?

 

It's surely not because a book told you, is it? How does God feel to you?

 

Wow, that really is a hard question. There is no real evidence that he exists, unless he actually presents himself to us, or we see his power, like back in biblical times.

 

But I just know. Nothign else makes any sense. I just know... its hard ot explain. How else could all this around you be here? Its all faith. Millions of people have followed Him. Look at Paul and Peter, they both died for Him (I list them, because they are the only ones I can think of right now). Paul got his head cut off, and Peter got hung on a cross upside down! Why? because they believed in Him, and were ready to die for Him. There has to be something behind that!

 

God is there, you can just feel him. His spirit lives within us.

 

 

Another incedent, look at Columbine. There was a girl there, the shooters asked her if she believed in God, she said yes, and they shot her dead. Right in the head I think. She knew they would shoot her, but she said yes anyways.

 

 

-lukeskywalker1

[Mandalorian54]

Look at Paul and Peter, they both died for Him (I list them, because they are the only ones I can think of right now).

 

Eleven of the twelve apostles died of persecution, all of them except John, who died in exile.

 

I just thought of something else, remember when Jesus foretold of Peter's three betrails? Jesus knew it would happen and foretold it, but when it happened and Peter remembered did he blame Jesus? No, Peter accepted full responsibuility. The same goes for Judas, who hung himself after he realized just how terrible a deed he had commited.

[lukeskywalker1]

Originally posted by Mandolorian54

That was really good lukeskywalker1, I'm glad to hear your beliefs and I think you did a good job of portraying them. Belief is somthing only you can choose for yourself, but I think you are mistaken in a few aspects.

 

First of all you already know I believe we don't have free will. Let me share a simple example of such. First of all are will has freedom, but ultimately it is a slave to our likes and dislikes. If you do not like the color red, sure you can choose to where the red shirt, but will you? NO! Your will does what your likes and dislikes determin. And SIN can influence likes and dislikes, for example Sin causes us to HATE God, and if you go up to a stranger on the street who has never heard the Gospel do you think he will accept christ right there? Not unless God has somewhat revealed himself and placed interest in the man. I'm not sure about you but I've never encountered a scripture saying we have free will.

 

I also believe God IS all powerfull. If God wanted to he could destroy the world, and he will on the FINAL day. God had a plan for everything, Satan's rebellion, Adams first sin, God knew that it was going to happen and he let it according to his ultimate and HOLY plan.

 

I'm sure we'll get even deeper into this and I await your reply. I also hope we can enjoy one anothers views in healthy discussion.

 

Yeah, but then that would mean, that God has just chosen anyone he wants to go to Heaven.

 

We can interfer with God's will. Remember, he was going ot destroy Sadamm and Gamorrah, but Abraham (i think, maybe lot) pleaded with him not to destroy it. God said if he found at least 10 good men there, he wouldnt destroy it. but he didnt so, he destroyed it.

 

By contorling everything, he becomes a tyrant. That would mean, that he made Satan. That would mean, that He made evil, because he made Satan turn against him. But then that would mean that God is not totally love, which sort of makes the bible untrue. So we must have free will. If we are all mindless robots, then why do we disagree? Why doesnt everyone just serve God. In the end, if we dont have free will, God is just a pupeteer, playing with us. That doesnt seem like the God I know, who says God is love.

 

-lukeskywalker1

[lukeskywalker1]

Originally posted by Mandolorian54

Eleven of the twelve apostles died of persecution, all of them except John, who died in exile.

 

I just thought of something else, remember when Jesus foretold of Peter's three betrails? Jesus knew it would happen and foretold it, but when it happened and Peter remembered did he blame Jesus? No, Peter accepted full responsibuility. The same goes for Judas, who hung himself after he realized just how terrible a deed he had commited.

 

True, but like I said before, God knows every possibility. God Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one, but they are also three different beings. Its really confusing.

 

Im going ot change something. God does sometime intervene with our lives, or take control,but only for a short period of time, even with non-believers. He will sometimes use people to do his work, but they wont really know it. But its temporary.

 

On the other hand, you can ask God to take control of your life. Im not talking about make you into a slave, but to help you out. To sort of make you into the proper person he wants you to be. To reach almost perfection.

 

-lukeskywalker1

[Mandalorian54]

Yeah, but then that would mean, that God has just chosen anyone he wants to go to Heaven.

 

Ya God did choose who he wanted to go to heaven.

 

I don't know why he chose some and not others, He has a plan and it is for the best. It may sound unfair to send some to hell when others get to go to heaven, but it's perfectly fair, we all deserve to go to hell. What's unfair is that he chose some to go to heaven when they didn't deserve it.

 

 

Take these verses for example. Matthew 12:33-37

 

 

'Either make the tree good, and it's fruit good; or else make th tree corrupt, and it's fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.'

 

God doesn't make us sin,

------------------

'no one ties fruit on a tree's branches, not even God'

 

Man's will-free yet bound PG.2

------------------

we sin of our own nature,

------------------

'The tree bears its own fruit. Evil men sin voluntarily'

PG.2

------------------

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Why can't all the religous questions be in one thread already??

 

Anyways:

 

Evil

Free will.

 

So, can Satan, and/or his followers go to Heaven? [/i]

I don't care, because frankly, I don't believe in the litteral interpretation of Hell anyway.

 

Adam and Eve's temptation

He didn't even know they had eaten the apple until later. He just didn't notice, according to the Bible.

 

Why is God God?

Do you know the gods are still there?

 

Is God all powerfull, or is His sovereignty limited???

I agree with you, he chooses to do what he wants to.

 

Why are humans here in the first place?

Like... the scientifically provenevolution?

 

Jesus' pain

He went trough pain, but as he is a recognized prophet, of course he got so much attention. AND the other stuff you said.

 

Just a side note:

When reading the Bible, read at least two translations of it (as in both the English and the Norwegian one, if you're a Scandi). Why? Because the Bibles are translated differently.

 

In one bible, I believe, it says: "I am the only God. Have no other gods than me."

 

In the Norse bibles, it just says: "Have no other gods than me."

 

So, did he say there's only one god, or didn't he? I suggest to everyone who consider seriously analyzing the Bible that they ask someone what the original language litteraly says.

 

Case of point: The Q'Uran (spelling?). In the French and Danish q'uran, it says that women should cover their faces. The Arabic q'uran, though, never mentions faces at all. It does tell women to cover their breasts, and to lower their faces, but never to cover their faces.

[lukeskywalker1]

We have the choice to turn to him. We have free will. Thats why Satan turned. Whats the point of making some people just to torture them? That doesnt seem fair to me. But God has his plans. But then again, we have to admitt our sins on judgement day, whats the point of that, when you say we dont have free will. That would mean, some one is forcing me type this right now.

 

Then what is freedom if we dont have free will? Free will means we can make our own choices. Not having free will makes us just like our computers for example. We would need commands to run. We have commands, but unlike computers, we can break the law (the 10 commandments). Why would God make just "puppets" it doesnt make sence. That would mean hes just playing around. Entertainment gets boring after a while. Im sure you have been bored of your new toy, or video game. Or you have gotten bored with your favorite thing. How boring is it when you control what happens? Like a video game, wouldnt that be boring if you could control all your enemies?

 

Onl through Christ can we be saved. So they have an impact on our lives, but they dont completly control it. We are supposed to obey God. Look at Jonah, he ran from God. Maybe that was God's will, but still Jonah had a choice.

 

-lukeskywalker1

[lukeskywalker1]

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Why can't all the religous questions be in one thread already??

 

I don't care, because frankly, I don't believe in the litteral interpretation of Hell anyway.

[/size]

 

Well its there. Do you believe in Heaven? You cant take the good with out the bad.

 

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

He didn't even know they had eaten the apple until later. He just didn't notice, according to the Bible.

 

Who says he didnt know? He asked, cant you ask questions you already know the answer to? Remember, the Garden was a big test, like I explained.

 

 

Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle

Why can't all the religous questions be in one thread already??

Just so you know, I wasnt asking questions....

 

Do you know the gods are still there?

 

There are no other gods

 

 

Just a side note:

When reading the Bible, read at least two translations of it (as in both the English and the Norwegian one, if you're a Scandi). Why? Because the Bibles are translated differently.

 

In one bible, I believe, it says: "I am the only God. Have no other gods than me."

 

In the Norse bibles, it just says: "Have no other gods than me."

 

So, did he say there's only one god, or didn't he? I suggest to everyone who consider seriously analyzing the Bible that they ask someone what the original language litteraly says.

 

He was talking about material possessions. Like your TV. If all you do is watch tv, constantly, and you have to be with your TV all the time, thats like worshipping it, therefor, it becomes a false god.

 

Anyways, he was also saying not to make any statues or whatever, and call them God. He is God, not a peice of wood or stone.

 

When he wrote the commandments, that was after he lead the israelites out of Egypt. The Egyptains had gods, they were stone, so yeah, i guess there are other gods, but they are not real.

 

Ill get some more info on the bibles translations. But right now ill say, there is no real way to know about the translations, unless you learn Greek or Hebrew and read them for yourself (the origianls)

 

-lukeskywalker1

[lukeskywalker1]

Sorry about the triple post, but this was interesting:

 

http://www.fehq.org/public/bibprof.htm

 

lukeskywalker1

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Well its there.

To quote the Crucible:

"Just that you haven't seen [it], doesn't have to mean it doesn't exist!"

"[i could also say that] there are dragons with five legs in my house, just that no one has ever seen it.":D

 

You can't just say "well it's there", IMO. And yes, I've got free will, so I perfectly well can have the good without having the bad.

 

Who says he didnt know? He asked, cant you ask questions you already know the answer to? Remember, the Garden was a big test, like I explained.

Point.

quote:

 

Just so you know, I wasnt asking questions....

The religious posts, then, smarta*s:p. Pleased now?

 

There are no other gods

And you can prove this how?

 

Okay, instead of throwing your religon in my face, answer the question I asked.

 

So to rephrase so that it won't be below your dignity or whatever to answer it:

"Do you know that God is still around?" Bible never said he wouldn't retire, did it? And he might have been hit by a car.

 

They were discovered in 1947. They include a complete copy of Isaiah and fragments of almost every book in the O.T. They are dated around 100-200 B.C.

Finally christians who have a belief in dating methods. I guess that means they're also ready to admit evolution happened.

LS1, that made my day. Thanks:)

[lukeskywalker1]

You can't just say "well it's there", IMO. And yes, I've got free will, so I perfectly well can have the good without having the bad.

 

i know it wasnt exactly my best answere, but still, ill get to that later in my Q&A. i was just about to post some.

 

 

The religious posts, then, smarta*s. Pleased now?

 

LOL

 

 

And you can prove this how?

 

if you read my whole post, i said this was wronge....

 

So to rephrase so that it won't be below your dignity or whatever to answer it:

"Do you know that God is still around?" Bible never said he wouldn't retire, did it? And he might have been hit by a car.

 

 

K, I think thats not a really good question, but ill answere.

 

PSALM 121: verse 4 "He who guards Israel never rests or sleeps."

 

Also he promised he would never forsake us, and since when has God made a promise and broken it?

 

 

Finally christians who have a belief in dating methods. I guess that means they're also ready to admit evolution happened.

LS1, that made my day. Thanks

 

So what? I believe in dates, the bible didnt happen just yesterday. I dont believe in all dating methods.

 

And about evolution, The bible says God made the world, doesnt mention evolution, although very unlikly, it might have, but its doubtful. Darwin himself denounced that theory, and so are many scientists today. Thats something they dont teach you in science class. Lets just stick with, evolution cant be proven, and neither can God made the world, I believe He did, but its all faith. Its a debate thats happend for years, and years, and years..........

 

Anyways, a biochemist once said that the human cell structure is so complex it had to have a designer. Come on, they say we are 99.9% the same as a worm. So the only difference between me and a worm is .1% wow, I feel special....

[Dagobahn Eagle]

Lets just stick with, evolution cant be proven, and neither can God made the world, I believe He did, but its all faith. Its a debate thats happend for years, and years, and years...

Can't be proven? We have evidence, you know:p.

 

Want to debate it? Because if you are, I'm more than happy to challenge your points. However, I'm not going to write a post about it if no one's there to listen.

 

Also he promised he would never forsake us, and since when has God made a promise and broken it?

My mistake:).

[lukeskywalker1]

Back to questions:

 

Who is God?

 

Its not "what" its who. He is a person, hes just super powered, i guess you could say. He is the one who made the world, and everything in it. You should pretty much know about him, i mean, who doesnt.... but if you have questions, ill answere.

 

Who is Satan?

 

K, you should know who he is too, but...

 

His very name means "enemy" He was called Lucifer, but ive already said his story......now he is Satan, or the Devil, or Beezlebul. Whatever you call him.

 

hey, if you look at DEVIL, and take out the D you get EVIL.... lol

yeah, dumb I know, but still....

 

 

Heaven

 

Heaven is the home of God basically. Its not that place in cartoons with all the clouds and stuff. Its sort of a reward for God followers. Ill get more into that later.

 

 

Hell

 

Cant tell the good without bad, yes Hell is a real place. Its not your traditional fire like on cartoons. Hell is the home of the Devil and his angels, and the future home of sinners.

 

Yeah i know everyone is going to ask why does God send people to Hell. Even though ive answered it at least 50 times, and other people have too, people dont want to accept the fact that, Hell is real, and if you dont watch out, you could go there.

 

The reason people go to Hell is because of there sins. Like I said above, its like the law, if I shoot you, will I get punished? of course, unless im lucky enough to get away, or lie in court. You cant lie to God, so theres no way of getting out of it. If you break the law you go to jail, if you dont follow God's commands, you go to Hell.

 

It sounds awful, but its true, and simple.

 

How to not go to Hell

 

Im not going to make the same mistake I have in the past and only tell people about Hell, and forget how to escape. Once your there, your there, but you can totally avoid going there altogether.

 

Its a combination of things on how this works, its so cool, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit each do there part. You see, the only way to the Father (God) is through the Son (Jesus) so what you need to do is turn to him. Admitt it, your a sinner, your sorry, and that your willing to let Jesus come into your life, and save you. Now you sort of have your prayer line, God will listen to your prayers, he will forgive you of your sins. You wont be perfect but you will be a better person. Ask God to help you where your weaknesses are (like say I have a problem with lying, I could ask God to help me not to lie, then Ill have to do my part and do my best not to lie, and God will guide me) Eventually the Holy Spirit will come down to you, and you will be born again, in the spirit. Then just get baptized and that will wash away your old sins, and you will be clean (not physically, but spiritually)

 

Of course, you have to believe, or none of this will happen, you need faith. Without faith, whats the point of trying?

 

Falling away

 

Sadly yes, people can fall away. Its really sad. Do you best to keep following God, and you will keep growing stronger in the spirit. Dont fall away, Jesus said, its worse for those who knew, and quit, than for those who never knew at all. That was in my own words.

 

 

 

For non-believers, the only way to really experience God, and his wonders, is to try this stuff out for yourself. Otherwise, no matter what I tell you, unless God intervenes, chances are, you wont turn.

 

Ill tell you, before i was a christian, my dad asked me about church. I told him, "Why would I want to waste an hour of my time, listening to stuff that makes no sence at all?" He wanted me to just try it and see, but i didnt want to know. So no, I didnt go to church. I stayed at home and did what I wanted. I used to believe that as long as I stay a good person, and dont commit and major crimes, ill go to Heaven. (Oh but only if it was so simple!!!) Eventually, I had an old bible, I just started reading one day, the table of contents attracted me. I kept reading, and reading, and I was hooked. Weird. Then one day my Mom told me something had happend to her. She had become a christian. I saw a change in her, something was so different. When I found out, and i saw how she wasnt that mean screeming and hollering woman anymore, I believed it right away, since i was already reading the bible, i figured why not go further. Now I go to chruch for like 2 1/2 hours at the least, ive spent an entire day at church before, on mulitple ocassions. And even today, just typing stuff like this im amazed at all of his wonders, and powers.

 

Dont know if that means anything to anyone, but it just explains, I didnt buy into all of this stuff either.

 

-lukeskywalker1

[lukeskywalker1]

Can't be proven? We have evidence, you know.

 

A few bones and fossils around on other continents. Many people say the flood (With Noah) never happend, but they say the earth was at once completly covered by water....

 

Heres what i think-

Ive always wondered, how did Cain have kids when there were no other people around? Could possibly be those other people, like the big long A word thing that i cant remember, and a C one too. Lucy was one of their names. I think they were just different people wandering around. A sort of animal. Maybe normal people mixed with them? Who knows?

 

But anyways, how do we know they werent just some deformed people. Or what about weathering and erosion? Say the skulls got screwed up? Or then again, people had really weird ways of doing things back then, I mean they used to knock holes in theire heads to relieve a headache, how do we know something like that didnt happen? Or then again, they say we came from monkeys right? So maybe those people turned into monkeys?

 

Maybe we should look at the ancient Egyptians, they preserved their people so well, they still have flesh on them. They look like us though dont they? Just wondering, because I dont know.

 

I think Noah's Flood started the Ice age, its perfect, the world was covered in water. When most of it dried, people went on dry land. Eventually it freezed up....

Could be wrong about all of this though. I didnt design this thread to be a debate, but to be a teaching.

 

anyways, who cares, most people spend time trying to better mankind, but they dont try to better themselves in the long run.

 

-lukeskywalker1

[Mandalorian54]

Let me talk now about Evil.

 

There are two main popular views among scollars today, God did in fact create evil, or evil is not an "element" but the absence of good.

 

God created good, when Lucifer became proud he abandoned the good or removed the good, and became evil.

 

I believe the evil is the absence of good view, it just seems to make more sense to me.

 

And free will, not having a free will is diferent from not having a will at all. You seem to be confusing my bielief of not having a free will with not having a will at all.

 

I think our will is defined by certain characteristics and not entirely free. But we can still make desicions, God doesn't make all the decisions for us. Like I mentioned before:

'no one ties fruit on a tree's branches, not even God'

We chose to sin, but GOD knows what we will chose before we chose it, and God gives us a concience to help us prevail over temptations.

 

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets just stick with, evolution cant be proven, and neither can God made the world, I believe He did, but its all faith. Its a debate thats happend for years, and years, and years...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Can't be proven? We have evidence, you know.

 

There is NO proof of evolution, thus says all the evolutionists and scientists of today's modern science. I heard it from a scientist, so don't tell me you know better.

 

Carbod dating, musium skeletal display, it's all just baloni. (I don't know how to spell baloni:p )

 

Evolution has been disproven, why do people still cling to it?

[ShockV1.89]

Finally christians who have a belief in dating methods. I guess that means they're also ready to admit evolution happened.

 

Nice reversal! Very impressive, DE.

 

I have a question for you, LS1, and any others who care to respond.

 

Dont fall away, Jesus said, its worse for those who knew, and quit, than for those who never knew at all. That was in my own words.

 

This, right here, is an implication that those who are never expose to your "true path" will go to hell. I know it's not exactly what you're saying, but it's certainly implied.

 

How on earth is that fair? "What's that, you never heard of Jesus Christ? Too bad, off to hell you go!"

 

Furthermore, do you really expect people who may have been raised from birth to be agnostic or atheist to suddenly convert simply because the bible said so, or some pastor said so, or you said so? It seems so, as you believe that they will go to hell for being raised a certain way.

 

I cant support this, and I cant believe that God would be so stupid and closed minded as to set up a system in which those who were made to be a certain way by powers not their own would be condemned for the sins of the fathers. Me, I've been raised to question everything I see. My parents are Roman Catholic, but they are this mostly because it's how they were raised. And they know this, and they want me to come to my own conclusions. To that end, they taught me to question everything and come to my own conclusions.

 

And wow, looking at my keystroke clocker in the corner, I typed that at 128 WPM. Damn....

[Vagabond]

lukeskywalker1, regarding one of your most recent posts - Who is God/Satan - Heaven/Hell - you're making the assumption that these entities and places exist - and therefore discussing them as fact is without basis.

 

Taking a position as a believer or an atheist takes a leap of faith, as there is no concrete evidence, nor experiment that can be run, which proves or disproves the existence of a super-natural being, be it good, evil, or indifferent.

 

Before responding with, "But I do believe - I have faith...", first ask yourself why. Is it because that's the way you were raised? If so, then what if you were raised in the wild. Presuming God exists, merely for the sake of argument, would your blissfully ignorant life in the wild give you a different outlook on the existence of God? Would you have perhaps reached alternate conclusions on religion, if any at all? And if so, would these other beliefs have any impact at all on whether or not there truly is a God?

 

The reason I pose these hypothetical questions to you is to make you think about the way you were raised, and how the absence of certain information during your education might have lead you to different conclusions on religion.

 

If we take a step closer to what was likely a significant part of that which shaped your beliefs - the bible - let's remove some of the mysticism, and look at the bible for what it is: a book, written over the course of several hundred years, partly by men who claimed to be prophets from God, and partly by men who wrote about the life of Jesus over a hundred years after he died.

 

Let that sink it. Think about the credibility and accuracy of such a book, not in terms of a "holy" book, but in terms of a book, period. Just humor me and be academic and detached about it for a moment. Think to yourself, what if someone came up to you today and asked you to write a book about the life of a person you never knew, and only later found out that this book you wrote would become the foundation of one of the world's major religions. Lest we forget that men thousands of years ago were just as corrupt and naive as they are today.

 

And just for the time being keeping angels, prophets, and other improvable divine injective out of the picture, the bible, when viewed at from this perspective doesn't possess the same stature.

 

In closing, I'm not trying to tell you what you should believe. What I'm encouraging you to do is to not simply believe in God because:

 

1. That's the way you were raised - that's a cop-out. Take responsibility for your own beliefs. Understand what you're believing, and don't just blindly follow.

 

2. Out of fear of going to hell - being a hostage to belief doesn't make God any more real. It also adds credibility to the use of threats to get one's way.

 

3. Because you don't want to be a "Doubting Thomas" - while an interesting story, it's exactly the type of manipulative tale that one would tell if trying to win someone's trust - to get them to accept the irrational or improvable to prove that you aren't a doubter. Don't be manipulated.

 

Having said all that, I urge you to take a fresh look at everything, and believe what you believe, independent of everything else. Look at it through your own eyes, and only your eyes, free of the chains of any past pre-conceptions.

 

Good luck.

[Iodius]

"you're making the assumption that these entities and places exist - and therefore discussing them as fact is without basis."

 

Of course he is. What was the point of that statement? To use the word "fact" and "basis"? Come on.

 

"1. That's the way you were raised - that's a cop-out. Take responsibility for your own beliefs. Understand what you're believing, and don't just blindly follow."

 

There are very few people who actually believe what their parents believe in. Most children and teenagers rebel against their parents and the best way to do this is to challenge their stance on religion and ethics. Using "it is because of the way you were raised is why you are religious" is a rather absurd statement. What about children who are raised in an Atheistic household? Does that make them blind followers of Atheism? Running with your logic it does.

 

I was raised in a semi religious household (my father was a Roman Catholic man and in his later years was very devout) and I was an atheist for 24 years. A strict Atheist too. I know of no children who become religious in adult life because their parents were, but I can name a helluva lot who did the contrary.

 

Vagabond: do you understand what you are not believing? Or are you just blindly following? Just as ignorance should not be synonymous with religion, rationality should not be synonymous with atheism: I know many rational Christians and many ignorant Atheists: avoid stereotyping, makes ya look ignorant.

 

"If we take a step closer to what was likely a significant part of that which shaped your beliefs - the bible - let's remove some of the mysticism, and look at the bible for what it is: a book, written over the course of several hundred years, partly by men who claimed to be prophets from God, and partly by men who wrote about the life of Jesus over a hundred years after he died.

 

Let that sink it. Think about the credibility and accuracy of such a book, not in terms of a "holy" book, but in terms of a book, period. Just humor me and be academic and detached about it for a moment. Think to yourself, what if someone came up to you today and asked you to write a book about the life of a person you never knew, and only later found out that this book you wrote would become the foundation of one of the world's major religions. Lest we forget that men thousands of years ago were just as corrupt and naive as they are today."

 

Your information is a bit off there: firstly, the Gospels and their respective Epistles and Revelations were all written by those who knew Jesus and were his Apostles, therefore it was within at most a 30-40 year time period after his death: not the hyperbolic "hundreds".

 

Viewed from a historical and archaeological viewpoint, the Bible has been proven to be a very academically reliable ancient text.

 

Yes men were just as corrupt and naive as they are today, but you are only seeing the surface. Look at the New Testament: A completely pacifist book. Turn the other cheek, love the pagan doctrine, et cetera. Remember it is recorded that all the NT writers were martyred (Peter was crucified on an upside down cross, I believe Simon was dragged through the streets of Alexandria hanging from the back of a horse and cart) for refusing to deny the credibility of the Gospels. Thousands of Christians were murdered in the Colosseum (eaten by lions and tigers and crocodiles) again for refusing to deny the Bibles basic truths. Quite a sacrifice to make for a fictional book, that these people would have KNOWN was fictional.

 

It is illogical to think that the very writers of a fictional book, that only garnered them exile and ultimately death, would write such a book when there was no personal gain. One man doing such a thing is improbable enough, but 12 men dieing for a self made lie is quite a stretch of logic. One of them at least would certainly stand up and say "alright, he didn't come back".

 

"Don't be manipulated.

 

Having said all that, I urge you to take a fresh look at everything, and believe what you believe, independent of everything else. Look at it through your own eyes, and only your eyes, free of the chains of any past pre-conceptions.

 

Good luck."

 

I took that advice many years ago. Maybe you should take it too.

[Homuncul]

Good point Vaga. But unfortunately you won't succeed. It's impossible. Christians are really stubborn about their faith being true. And as I said many times when faith is concerned a logical argument is not the whole thing. I'm like...dispaired about it.

[Iodius]

You are just as stubborn as the Christians you so unfairly stereotpye, the only difference is the Christians here don't find a need to insult you by saying it. Just as I admit I may be wrong, you should too, and stop being so "stubborn" about it. Get off your high horse and make a contribution. That sort of rubbish you just posted was so stereotpyical and hypocritical, I am, shall we say, in "dispair".