Skinny Minnie Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Wah! I bought the new Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness for PS2, and if I'm honest here, so far it's pretty lame. I loved a couple of the old ones, but all hope seems lost for this franchise to ever return to respectable form. I know, big surprise, huh? But with certain good action/adventures out there today to draw inspiration from (like Splinter Cell, Devil May Cry, etc.) I was hoping Core would redirect this series for the better. It also looks...old. It's an improvement over the ancient blockiness of the past games, but Lara looks plasticky, and compared to the high gloss action titles like SC that are out, it just looks dated. The story starts off with a bang, but the gameplay is much closer to the old, regurgitated cash cow stuff than anything refreshing or new, at least so far. (Maybe things will improve the further I get, but I'm not holding my breath here...) Also, the controls are pretty wonky (okay, so they've always been that way, but turning Lara seems even super-touchier now) and there are slowdown problems with the game. Lara will suddenly go into slow-mo sometimes, too, and it's not a special effect, because she'll just be walking around or whatever and then she'll slow way down... (None of my other PS2 or PSX games have done this, either.) Once I had her shimmying across a ledge and it happened, which wouldn't matter so much if she didn't now sport a breath bar for hanging from ledges that runs out the longer she hangs. Lara slowed way down in movement but the bar depletion didn't, resulting in her falling off the ledge to her doom before she could reach safety. The next time I tried the same scene, it didn't happen and she reached the end all right, which tells me it's not an intentional effect but rather a random problem with the game. Boy, this is one little bun that should have spent more time in the oven I'm afraid. I think Core's problem may have been that they started the game before the actual specs for the PS2 were set in stone. I read an interview (I forget where-- Gamespot?) recently, where one of Core's team said they had to axe a lot of the game halfway through development and modify it, because the PS2 didn't wind up having the power they thought it would. You know, I've had my trusty PS2 since its launch date; I own a whole boatload of games for it (plus PSX games that we play on it, too,) and I've never seen a game with the weird, spontaneously-slow-mo problems of AOD; not that other games like that don't probably exist, but I haven't really run into any. I just did one hand to hand combat scene where Lara managed one kick to a guard, but then she just stood there immobile for a while, and I kept pushing the attack button and finally she moved again. I really don't think the game froze; Lara was just immobile there for a while after one kick, like the controls just weren't recognizing my additional commands or something. Hey, maybe I need some kind of lower body powerup before she can do hand-to-hand combat fast, who knows? (Lara appears to be collecting very simple body powerups now.) I'd say that despite all the trouble I had getting Morrowind to run on my PC, it grabbed me a lot sooner and a lot stronger than AOD has so far. Perhaps it will have a stronger story that earlier TRs and maybe it will sport some good puzzles, too; then I think my feelings will change for the better. It's still too early to write it off completely I guess, but I'm not in any hurry to go back to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 :____( I just hope the PC version is better.... Anyway, even if all the people say this games sucks. I am definitely gonna buy it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarathustrian Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Skinny Minnie I read an interview (I forget where-- Gamespot?) recently, where one of Core's team said they had to axe a lot of the game halfway through development and modify it, because the PS2 didn't wind up having the power they thought it would. Oh, that's just about the worst excuse a developer could throw at us. Just look at what was accomplished with Metal Gear Solid 2 (and its upcoming sequel) or the PS2 version of Splinter Cell. That's no excuse, Core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 You know, my "other" homeland Gamers.com has a very interesting announcement about TR: AOD right on their home page. They've been asked to hold back their PS2 review until June 26th! I know a lot of the game companies have been pushing titles out this month as their fiscal year ends are coming at the end of June... They want the extra cash flow to show up in time like everybody else I guess, but it sure sounds like Eidos also knows they've got a stinker on their hands and is trying to suppress that info past the first rush of sales (not that they're the first nor the last company to do that)... This whole thing is depressing. I'm going to go drown my little sorrows in Morrowind! (I never would have even gone online and seen that article to begin with if Morrowind hadn't frozen up on me this morning, though! ) You know, for the longest time I was hoping I'd get assigned the PC version of AOD to review (it's not due out until later this week if it doesn't get put off longer), but now I just want my 50 bucks back on the PS2 version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toger Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Minnie, I've been thinking of you ever since I heard that AOD was being pushed out the door ahead of schedule. I weep for you, girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wajus Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I knew it! I'm not happy with it because secretly I hoped this game to push Tomb Raider closer to adventure games, and maybe even compete with BS3 - I know one can't really compare those games but nevertheless. Anyway BS3 will prevail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 Originally posted by Wajus I knew it! I'm not happy with it because secretly I hoped this game to push Tomb Raider closer to adventure games, and maybe even compete with BS3 - I know one can't really compare those games but nevertheless. Anyway BS3 will prevail! I didn't wait SO much...but i wanted a much more adventure-action game.... so they failed e? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 Toger, LOL, this one's a preemie birth for sure! I have to see the forest for the trees here. Unfortunately, I think Lara should have hitched up with Duke Nukem and stayed AWOL. Wajus and Pleto, I totally hear you, especially you, Pleto. I used to be a real fan of this series, but then again, action/adventure games overall in the mid to late 90s were not as evolved as they are today. You know, Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast has some challenging puzzles in it besides creative action. The mix of action and adventure can be done well. I wasn't expecting there not to be gunfights or even hand-to-hand combat in AOD, but I was really hoping for more compelling gameplay than this washed out, generic-feeling, plasticky looking Lara. It just all feels second best or a pale, simplified imitation of things that have been done before and done better by the likes of previous games like SC, DMC, and like Tom mentioned, MGS/MGS2. Heck, even Morrowind can be thrown into this mix for a comparison seeing as how AOD is supposed to have RPG elements. But with AOD, they too are just too stripped and basic to be anything but...boring. And even lead characters in action games have come a ways since the mid 90s and TR's debut. There's no emotion to this game and there's none to be found in Lara, either, at least so far. There is no humor, no fear being convincingly portrayed or vocalized...there's not really much of anything to tug at your feelings at all. I sincerely hope that this game lurches upward in the creativity and excitement areas soon, but after a few levels, I'm feeling less and less inclined to bother continuing. I guess I should give it a few more tries, though, before I totally throw in the towel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toger Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Minnie, Remember the lessons of Dark Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 Well, at least AOD's camera system is not nearly that bad, although the hand-to-hand combat and moves aren't as good, for whatever that's worth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Dammit, I was looking forward to this game for PC, too! My sympathies to you, Minnie, for ending up with a lemon. But since you haven't gotten too deep into it yet, I hope the rest is better at least. Oh, man, I was really hoping AOD would actually push the Tomb Raider games franchise forward in terms of quality. The way they hyped up all that 'This-time-Lara-is-edgy-and-dark' may end up a total joke if the waves of oncoming reviews (from both the media and gamers) score low. We'll see. Minnie, you haven't played Indiana Jones And The Emperor's Tomb, have you? I'm still in the middle of it, and - based on your comments - it's precisely what AOD should have been: visceral action (very satisfying fistfights), exploration, last second grabs, a solid story, tangible characters. The only thing missing is the RPG elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 Originally posted by Homoludens The only thing missing is the RPG elements. Yeah, well, for all extents and purposes they appear to be missing from AOD as well... Aw, I will hack through a bunch more of it tomorrow, and maybe it will swing my opinion upwards some. (The request for a holdback on the gamers.com review has me really questioning that, though ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibelio Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Awww... shucks! All this about the PS2 version sounds really bad . Considering the release date was delayed several times, they should have put more effort in it. I also feel sorry for you, Skinny Minnie. Maybe it gets better though when you proceed (hopefully!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 Decibelio, Aw, thanks, but I returned AOD a few days ago and got my money back. I've actually read that now even the PS2 version of the game has been put off from releasing in Europe, besides the PC version's newest delay in the US... Can they really hope to fix so many problems in so little time, or are they just putting off the inevitable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibelio Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Originally posted by Skinny Minnie Decibelio, Aw, thanks, but I returned AOD a few days ago and got my money back. That's good news . After five Tomb Raider games they should have some practise in developing games ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL-9000 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 It is a fact that when I first learned that a new Tomb Raider is under construction I was very happy. I loved all the games of the series and I was hoping for something that would make the game live again, and of course make many sequels... When the site was up I read many strange things like the fact that it will have RPG elements. I didn't care about what Core promised cause I always wait for the reviews. They said that they are going to make it dark and I still didn't react. However, now you say that it is piece of crap and you mention in your last post that you asked for refund?! I don't know about anyone here but I can say that I am really surprised. I thought you said it wasn't good but now you say it is awful! I am confused cause the video-teaser looked quite good. Can you please elaborate more on what made you change your mind and drop the game? As Pleto said I am going to buy it whatever everyone say! I read all the posts here twice so that I can say something really accurate and I came out with this. You mention somewhere that you liked a couple of Tomb Raider's episodes! Now that's big difference that probably makes you not being objective! I just loved every single adventure of Lara Croft, even the last one which was a four-hours game with all secrets. I am not saying that you are wrong but I am saying that maybe you have a different taste in games which makes you not like this game. -Gabriel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL-9000 Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Originally posted by decibelio That's good news . After five Tomb Raider games they should have some practise in developing games ! I don't agree with that 100%. I think that Core has a lot of experience in game developement. They have taken part in quite many games and I believe that the fact they gave us the absolutely awesome Tomb Raider 4 means something. You shouldn't be so harsh in judging a company there. -Gabriel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibelio Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Yep, Hal, I see your point there. But apart from all the things in a game which may be subjective (story, graphics, gameplay), Skinny Minnie stated that AOD had some pretty serious flaws in its control system up to the point where Lara freezes completely. This technical issue should have been solved before releasing the game. After all, new games are very expensive. For myself, I liked all of the Tomb Raider games, that's why I posted here in the first place. I'll probably buy the PC version of AOD, because I have to experience the game for myself. And I agree, it was really harsh to claim that Core has no practise in game development, my apologies for this. I didn't want to flame them or something, it's just they should keep up the quality of their products (and I was a little upset ). Maybe you see my point now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarathustrian Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 GameSpot's Greg Kassavin has reviewed Angel of Darkness, giving is a 6.5 out of 10. Here's the summary: Hard-core Tomb Raider fans and other patient players should be able to overlook the game's flaws and enjoy its engaging storyline, death-defying action sequences, and impressive locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibelio Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Thanks for the link, zarathustrian, a very interesting article. I'll just wait and see for the PC version, as I don't own a PS2 myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 and enjoy its engaging storyline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibelio Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Alright, Pleto, I'll buy it anyway and the story is one of the most important things for me in a game. It's just I'm so unbelievably bad when it comes to action games (like to get better though) that I hope the control issue has been solved in the PC version, otherwise I won't stand a single chance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novel_T Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Originally posted by Skinny Minnie ...the gameplay is much closer to the old, regurgitated cash cow stuff than anything refreshing or new... Oh Minnie, if only it WERE. I miss the pixelated Lara's ability to move with the press of a button, instead of shifting a gear-stick and getting up to make popcorn before she actually responds; and while it's true that Tomb Raider fans have come to expect buggy gameplay at times (bad collision detection and aliasing), on the PS2 - this should at least be behind us. What you refer to when Lora runs in 'slo-mo' is the frame-rate, or in particular, frames per second (fps). The only time it should slow down a little in any PS2 game is when there is a gargantuan amount of movement on the screen at any given time; in AOD, it's unforgivable. I'm early in the game, and while the gameplay is pushing the limits of my patience, endurance, and eps (expletives per second), the adventury story and semi-generous nod toward the adventure format is enough to keep me going. You should give it another shot. I do think Core really screwed up a golden opportunity. The sad thing is, their timing consumer-wise couldn't be better - so they'll still make money on what's essentially a half-assed game. So ultimately there will be little to dissuade them from doing this in the future, but the outcries of some loyal fans who know the difference between dog crap and fertilizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysterD Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Originally posted by Skinny Minnie I'd say that despite all the trouble I had getting Morrowind to run on my PC, it grabbed me a lot sooner and a lot stronger than AOD has so far. Perhaps it will have a stronger story that earlier TRs and maybe it will sport some good puzzles, too; then I think my feelings will change for the better. It's still too early to write it off completely I guess, but I'm not in any hurry to go back to it. Morrowind's a great PC game -- and Tribunal just adds more goodness. Bloodmoon just takes MW expansions to a new level. About Lara, I was hoping that it would revolutionize what I feel has been a CRUMMY series. And it is sad to hear to have read reviews like IGN's and GameSpot's and say how great the story is, but the gameplay don't help it -- wonky controls plague it. Here's an idea: put Lara's license in some other hands for gameplay, yet leave who's doing the stories ALONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 so many promises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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