Jubatus Posted July 11, 2003 Share Posted July 11, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior We have no proof of God. But we have no proof of NO God either. Therefore, your opinion is JUST as valid as ours. I have to address this argument now, it's been used too many times to be merely amusing anymore. Asking people that they have to disprove something that hasn't been proved, nor even observed, is absurd, and to use the argument that there is no proof of the nonexistence of something not proved, nor even observed, is equally absurd. We cannot disprove God because by design he cannot be disproved, and by that same design he can only be proved if he wishes it so. But to accept the inability to disprove something not proved as proof of its validity is futile folly. All you can have for God is faith. The Universe resides inside a purple peanut governed by the sevenlegged ant, Woonawoona Wantagi....I can't prove it, but prove me wrong. That oppinion is just as valid as that of God. EDIT: Corrections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 And it just may well be, we'll never know. But will I call you naive and stupid for believing in the purple peanut? No. I will allow you to believe it because it is what you wish to do, and I will be a nice guy and just let you have your beliefs so long as you aren't actually harming anyone. And for the record, I know you were being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior ...and just let you have your beliefs so long as you aren't actually harming anyone. But that's exactly the point I'm trying to get across here; these beliefs are harmful, because they keep mankind delusionally persistent about the justification of its continued existence. These beliefs are obstructions against any further evolving of insight. They say "So it is, let us question nothing beyond their boundaries." What they represent, the submission to ignorance through subconscious fear, is the uttermost crime against mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 mankind delusionally persistent about the justification of its continued existence. So you are saying that mankind does NOT deserve to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 12, 2003 Share Posted July 12, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior So you are saying that mankind does NOT deserve to exist? Deserving does not apply here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Perhaps you could actually explain what you mean by that, or at least explain the quote of yours I have in my post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior Perhaps you could actually explain what you mean by that, or at least explain the quote of yours I have in my post above. Suffice to say that the notion of mankind deserving its existence is either indicating that we must answer to some higher authority or purely subjective to oppinion. As for your quotation of me in your former post, I will ask you to justify pain. I'm not talking about everyday disappointments like 'Dang, I didn't get that job I wanted' or 'Aww, my dog died'; I'm talking about the many millions through history that have experienced despair, hunger, disease, torture of body and mind, persecution, terror and profound loss. What I was saying with that quote is that Christianity, though merely a symptom of the disease that is determined ignorance through fear, is persistently keeping us delusional in the vain hope that we all might once and forever thenceforth be happy, i.e. Utopia. Add to this that happiness is the wrong thing to pursue. One should seek contentment, the balance point. Two ways to accomplish that; be one with everything or don't be at all - either works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 So the fact that people believe there is a chance for them, after they are dead, to live a life of complete bliss is a disease of humanity? I dont understand exactly how this affects humanity as a whole. It seems like it would help a lot, because this prevents people from completely despairing and killing themselves. Even if it's all wrong and their is no God, believing in a God is what keeps some people alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior So the fact that people believe there is a chance for them, after they are dead, to live a life of complete bliss is a disease of humanity? I wasn't referring to Utopia being some paradise after death; I am talking about life, both that of the the past and of the here and now. Originally posted by ET Warrior I dont understand exactly how this affects humanity as a whole. It seems like it would help a lot, because this prevents people from completely despairing and killing themselves. Even if it's all wrong and their is no God, believing in a God is what keeps some people alive. You're right, you don't exactly understand. You hold the same dogmatic belief like that of the majority of the world: That life, or rather conscious existence, is unquestionably precious. As you say, "believing in God is what keeps some people alive", and I will add, "despite the pain"...That is exactly the crime of Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 i personally find it humorous that people think that when they die they continue to live in another plane of existence, instead of rotting in the ground. but still even if there was a life after death i think that would be terribly boring after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Originally posted by InsaneSith i personally find it humorous that people think that when they die they continue to live in another plane of existence, instead of rotting in the ground. but still even if there was a life after death i think that would be terribly boring after a while. I agree with everything but the boring part; I'm convinced eternity in any 'place', Heaven or Hell or what have you, can only lead to pure and total insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Originally posted by Jubatus I agree with everything but the boring part; I'm convinced eternity in any 'place', Heaven or Hell or what have you, can only lead to pure and total insanity. hell i'm bored just being in this plane of existence practically all the time:( hence my name and location Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Originally posted by ET Warrior So the fact that people believe there is a chance for them, after they are dead, to live a life of complete bliss is a disease of humanity? This, in my opinion, is why the world is so fouled up. Of the 6 billion people that are alive, nearly every one of them has some hope that they will live past their deaths. Most of them get this nonsense from religion (christianity, budism, hinduism, islam, [insert missing cult]). If people had it in their heads that they might get 70+ years if they are lucky and healthy, they might just live their lives more carefully, healthfully, and compassionately. Because, in their minds they know, "this is all I get." The only way to live past your death is to leave a legacy. If your memory and deeds are honored through time, then you live on. Thomas Jefferson is still living. So is Charles Darwin, Einstein, Ptolomy, Da Vinci, Aristotle, Gengis Khan, Alexander the Great, and even Hitler. The legacy of the latter three is quite telling of their deeds.... though I've no doubt that Hitler wanted to be remembered a little better, he earned what he got. Originally posted by ET Warrior I dont understand exactly how this affects humanity as a whole. It seems like it would help a lot, because this prevents people from completely despairing and killing themselves. If anything, it seems to encourage despair and suicide among other societal taboos. By it, I'm referring to religion. Originally posted by ET Warrior Even if it's all wrong and their is no God, believing in a God is what keeps some people alive. But it's what kills many and encourages many more to not bother with this life, because, as long as they get forgiveness before their time is up, they can go on to "eternal life." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homuncul Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 It bothers me why people are so close minded and not creative in their approach to existencial matters. Why they can't think of it another way either than feeling. Why they can't understand (and probably don't want to) how can it be a different form of existence with different properties, how something can exist not breathing, not feeling, not understanding. They think: "That's f**king boring", but they don't understand that they judge that from an angle of their own existence. Not that we can do otherwise, just we need to be open minded to be able comprehend such matters. How can a man exist in latters? It's very simple. No dispair here, no emotion at all, no thought, it's just different from how we do it. Is it boring? One could never tell, this category is only for humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 20, 2003 Share Posted July 20, 2003 well.... look at it like this, Hell-burn forever thinking about your sins, heaven-live in peace forever knowing your sins are forgiven... slight difference dont you think. Christianity for the weak? We have strong virtues, loyalty, trust, LOVE! So were weak... but were willing to die for God? Another thing.... CATHOLICS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. How many times do i got to say this, they are considered christians. There bible is different to ours!!!!!!!! Which yes, allows them to burn people to death, kill people, and yes they contradict themselves constantly. Yes, they disobey there bible, with forgivness of sins, the god your supposed to worship, mary, how to get to heaven, and many more things. Yeah, they tell you whats right and wrong, but dont dare tell the church whats wrong, i know all of this! Dont get them confused with christians who are trying to follow the way God commanded them. Yeah it s a denomination (there shouldnt even be denominations!!!!) but catholics arent christians, they are catholic... believe me, ive done research on this. Hey, disagree with this, post and prove to me why your a true christian? They think: "That's f**king boring", but they don't understand that they judge that from an angle of their own existence. Mostly everything is perspective, thats why the bible is misinterperated, there is only one 'true' interpertation (prolly misspelled) (like with the kill all gays.... which ill explain in a min) Many people interperate the bible in many different ways, but that doesnt mean that there way of interperating its right. I mean, theres only one interperatation of it, but you could think it means this... when it means that. About the gays, leviticus is in the old testament, it was a rule for the irealites. Its not applyed any more. God saw there needed to be a new system, so he made it, with Jesus. In Romans, the death Paul is talking about is Hell. Hell is the 2nd death. But that doesnt mean just cause your gay youll go to hell, theres always the other path, turn to christ. Someone said about born again christians not being able to drink and stuff..... bull. EVEN CHRIST DRANK WINE!!!!!!!!!! remember the wedding? THis was a catholic who said this, the way he spoke about born agains was like they were different. I have to address this argument now, it's been used too many times to be merely amusing anymore. Asking people that they have to disprove something that hasn't been proved, nor even observed, is absurd, and to use the argument that there is no proof of the nonexistence of something not proved, nor even observed, is equally absurd. give me a break! You cant observe the big bang! Crap, you cant even prove half of science all the way, so that means theres a chance. Untill you prove %100 that there was a big bang, or whatever other theary there is... theres always room for something else. yeah i know you wrote other stuff, but since you cant prove your science, that means that there could be something else, and probably is. Note: This doesn't apply to Catholicism, because if you're a 'true' Catholic, you must believe homosexuality is a sin, because the Pope said so. Hey... the pope thinks hes God.... popes have said it in the past... yeah, popes have said that they are god. I've at first hand witnessed this hypocrisy and have seen proof with my own eyes that rock to the very core of the bible, yet to question the very word of god is wrong? like what? I just want to know... im being open minded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 well.... look at it like this, Hell-burn forever thinking about your sins, heaven-live in peace forever knowing your sins are forgiven... slight difference dont you think. The point is, eternity in either Hell or Heaven, representing respectively torment and happiness, cannot be healthy for the mind in my oppinion. If you are doomed to consciousness for eternity I see only two ways; either perfect balance through enlightenment or total insanity. We're talking eternity here, not 100 years or 1 million years or 1 centillion eons (which is quite alot; 225*10^606 years). Impossible to fathom, yet I can imagine the result easily enough. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Christianity for the weak? We have strong virtues, loyalty, trust, LOVE! So were weak... but were willing to die for God? Your strong virtues are misguided, and even were they not you'd not need Christianity to embrace them. You're willing to die for God?...A hollow boast at best. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 give me a break! You cant observe the big bang! Crap, you cant even prove half of science all the way, so that means theres a chance. Untill you prove %100 that there was a big bang, or whatever other theary there is... theres always room for something else. yeah i know you wrote other stuff, but since you cant prove your science, that means that there could be something else, and probably is. Never said I was a devout follower of science, that's your wrongful assumption. But in the defence of science, they unlike Christianity can and do provide an immense load of proof for their case. And there will always be room for something else than what science can explore and explain, but that does not validate your arguments for God one single iota more than my theory of the sevenlegged ant, Woonawoona Wantagi governing the purple peanut inside which our universe resides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Your strong virtues are misguided, and even were they not you'd not need Christianity to embrace them. You're willing to die for God?...A hollow boast at best. How is it a hollow boast.... millions of people have died 4 him! And Christ died for me! Look at Paul-he got his head cut off, Peter-hung on a cross upside down, Stephen-stoned to death... and many more. Look this whole christian bashing stuff has been happening for 2000 yrs. What do u hope this thread will solve? One day i think it was maybe 1000 (dont know exact number) christians traveling to one of the countries in Europe (dont know exact country). Well any ways.. to make a long story short, they were in Rome.. i think... and the king (or govener... someone important) didnt like christians, juas cuase they were christians. Some building burned down somewhere, and the kind (or whoever) blamed noneother than the christians, who were just passing by. Guess what happend.... all em died. They stopped in a church to rest i think.. well they burned the church down. Many of the christians were hung on crosses, or tied to a stake and burned (they did that for fuel... or something). 1000 deaths... or more..... and right in the middle, paul and peter. And why did those 1000 + people die? To satisfy one man's hatred. The point of this is that christians will always be 'bashed' just cause they are christians. Look... call christians dumb or whatever... i got another story far ya. One day there was a man named Stephen. He was a man of God. Jewish people were against him, cuase he spoke the word of God, and did many miricles with God's power. Well, they argued with him, and i guess you could say he won cause the spirit was speaking through him. So they got mad, they left, and started telling people that he said stuff against Moses, and God. That was against the law so he got taken to court, they put him on trial. Then Stephen gave this huge speech to them, about Moses. So then they got really mad cause of the speech. So they gave there coasts to a young man, named Saul. Saul, was a leading member of the pharacies. He watched them stone Stephen, and even said it was a good thing that they killed him. Well, he was really smart, and knew a lot about the law, and was really moving up. I guess he was good looking, and got a paid a whole lot. Anyways, he started telling the christians in Jerusalem, saying that he would kill them. So he went to the high preist and he asked them to send a letter to Damascus, and if he found any followers of christ, men or women, he was ganna arrest them and take them to jerusalem. i think he was planning to kill them :/ not sure. But anyways, he was heading to Damascus, and then a bright light shone from heaven, and Saul fell down, and a voice said to him 'Saul, Saul! Why are you persecuting me?' Saul said 'Who are you, Lord?' The voice said, 'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Get up now, and go into that city. Someone there will tell you what you must do.' Everyone with Saul heard the voice. Anyways, theres more to this story, but, you might already know it. You might already know this guy, he later became know as Paul. So whats the point? The point is, is that just cause your a christian, that doesnt mean your ignorant, or whatever. Sorry that was so long, but at least its interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 How is it a hollow boast.... millions of people have died 4 him! And Christ died for me! Look at Paul-he got his head cut off, Peter-hung on a cross upside down, Stephen-stoned to death... and many more. Was talking about you personally. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 What do u hope this thread will solve? Nothing, of this I'm perfectly aware. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 The point of this is that christians will always be 'bashed' just cause they are christians. Indeed, fortunately alot of people stand up to your crime, and hopefully more and more will do so for the right reason. Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Look... call christians dumb or whatever... i got another story far ya. One day there was a man named Stephen. He was a man.........The point is, is that just cause your a christian, that doesnt mean your ignorant, or whatever. Sorry that was so long, but at least its interesting. I don't believe in that story, so it holds no weight with me. I stand by my oppinion that Christians are deliberately ignorant and intellectually stagnant out of fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Nothing, of this I'm perfectly aware. i wasnt talking to you, i was talking to the guy who made the thread, even though you are correct. Indeed, fortunately alot of people stand up to your crime, and hopefully more and more will do so for the right reason. crime? being a christain is a crime? I don't believe in that story, so it holds no weight with me. I stand by my oppinion that Christians are deliberately ignorant and intellectually stagnant out of fear. I dont see where the fear comes in. So we are ignorant cause we dont believe what you believe? Or... we dont stick with the 'crowd' like scientists say something, but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant. Scientists cant prove anything 100% so it doesnt mean we are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 And why did those 1000 + people die? To satisfy one man's hatred. The point of this is that christians will always be 'bashed' just cause they are christians. how many people died 'by the cross'?? isnt it otherwise around fact that many people DIED because the DONT were christians?? hmmm. YAP. so believe if you want. but you will always be bashed for THIS fact. CHRISTIANS ARE A CRUEL HORRIBLE SOCIETY .. no matter how many GOD CHRISTIANS (persons) there are.. In my view it's the christianity's fault that we live 'behind time' medeaval age cost us hundreds of years of technological forthcome. bah. SO. it isnt WHAT christians believe.. it's WHAT they've done.. (and doing) .. founded on their faith.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 crime? being a christain is a crime? Already told you this and the reason why - don't you read what I write? Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 I dont see where the fear comes in. So we are ignorant cause we dont believe what you believe? Or... we dont stick with the 'crowd' like scientists say something, but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant. Scientists cant prove anything 100% so it doesnt mean we are wrong. Already told you I'm no devout follower of science - don't you read what I write? Your fear is that of mankind being in existence merely by chance. Your fear is that there is no purpose to our existence than what we make for ourselves. Your fear is of seizing to exist. "but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant." Exactly; you don't evolve from this point - intellectual stagnation. Science can't prove anything 100%, eh? It means neither that Christianity is right nor wrong. It's like saying "Science can't prove 100% there are no giant blue pingvins in Sahara, so there must be some!" With how big a percentage can you proof the truth of Christianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 .. plus (sorry to 'interrupt') .. i can see what science is 'leading' us to .. i mean there are definite results .. and the more results the more abilities and so on we have .. let see.. what do we have from cristianity .. NOT EVEN PEACE .. .. and dont say science BUILD WEAPONS .. THAT is not right. Because the ABILITY is not the same as the USAGE.. (WO)MAN build weapons .. and use them .. not science or knowledge or some. and christians CONSTANTLY tried to suppress KNOWLEDGE .. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I just thought I'd drop in and answer the original question of the topic: Why is it OK to bash Christianity? Because you're practically asking for us to do it. The USA is soaked trough with ignorant christian fundamentalists seeking to impose christian way of life upon those who do not fit their biblical ideals, completely violating the US policies that prohibits citizens from imposing their religious views upon others. When religious schools and parents literally teach children to hate minority groups and people with different religions and sexual preferences, and the same institutions refuse to let christians learn about other religions and about the evil deeds of christianity, thus promoting that hate and facist attitudes (I once met a student in my 9th grade class who didn't know about the Crusades). I do not "bash christianity". I, like many others, bash fanaticism, such as "holy homophobia" or "holy racism". And please not that I ban every form of fanaticism, be it Buddhist, socialist, norse unificationist, animal-lovers... or christians. If you conventional, clear-minded christians could steer the fanatical christians away from the path of ignorance and intolerance, you'd receive less of the unfair anger from people who went their feeling at all christians instead of just the fanatics. I know I sound harsh, but my harshness is directed at the fanatics, not at you as a regular, nice christian. Oh, and if you are a fanatic, you can't take offense as you've probably said much, much meaner things yourself. -Dagobahn Eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 If you conventional, clear-minded christians could steer the fanatical christians away from the path of ignorance and intolerance, you'd receive less of the unfair anger from people who went their feeling at all christians instead of just the fanatics. youve given me something to think about here. But heres the thing, the christians who do commit these crimes, arent following the bible. The crusades were catholic right? im sure they were... and if they were christians, then they were disobeying God. Yeah i know what your talking about with these crimes, people killing... blowing up buildings and say they are doing it for God. I got an ex for you: Tommorrow, i go to the store. I shoot everyone in there. When im asked why, im doing it the name of Jubatus, RayJones, or Dagobahn Eagle. Heres the question, did any of you have anything to do with this? Im talking from the point that God is real ok. So i go out shoot 30 people or something, and say im doing for God, or God told me to do that, or im doing it in the name of God, well whos to say God had a thing to do with it? Just because you call yourself a christian, doesnt mean your really a christian, or it doesnt mean when you do something wrong that its God's fault. Hope that shows my point. let see.. what do we have from cristianity .. NOT EVEN PEACE .. .. Read your bible, does it say anything about christians bringing peace? Dude the bible is the best moral code there is. Already told you this and the reason why - don't you read what I write? Im guessing your talking about what i wrote above. "but we stick with what we already believe, so we are ignorant." Exactly; you don't evolve from this point - intellectual stagnation. ok, you see a murder, you see the murderer, and the victom. He goes to court the jury say hes inoccent, he goes free. Do you change your mind, even though you saw it? A little bit different to christianity, but same point. and dont say science BUILD WEAPONS .. THAT is not right. Because the ABILITY is not the same as the USAGE.. You dont need science to make a weapon, you can kill with your hands... and in many other ways. And that has nothing to do with this topic how many people died 'by the cross'?? isnt it otherwise around fact that many people DIED because the DONT were christians?? hmmm. YAP. plenty of people died by the cross... I dont really get what you said... but...... im pretty sure you missed the point of the story. so believe if you want. but you will always be bashed for THIS fact. CHRISTIANS ARE A CRUEL HORRIBLE SOCIETY .. no matter how many GOD CHRISTIANS (persons) there are.. In my view it's the christianity's fault that we live 'behind time' medeaval age cost us hundreds of years of technological forthcome. bah. SO. it isnt WHAT christians believe.. it's WHAT they've done.. (and doing) .. founded on their faith.. Catholic Church. But your right... actions are important. Ok, check your bibles, read the new testament, it says how a christian is supposed to act. If a christian is committing these crimes, then they arent obeying the christian rules. Is God to blame for this? No. Its the person's choice. With crime as the reason you do like christians, you might as well just start hating the whole human race, cause there are laws (just like the bible is the law to christians) and people constantly break them. Everyone has broken the law, whether its stealing bubble gum from a candy store, or killing someone, youve still broken the law. Look... that 50 asian dudes bombed a building yesterday... oh no.... i hate asian people now, and they deserve whatever they get. I dont care if the rest of the asian population is perfect, some arent, and that gives me perfect reason to not like them, they are a cruel heartless society. Give me a break. No offense to any asian people here, im just trying to get my point accross. No, i dont believe that, and it sounded stupid didnt it? Now then replace the word asian with christian and im sure youll get my point and christians CONSTANTLY tried to suppress KNOWLEDGE .. Whats wrong with knowledge... not a thing. Im a christian and im saying that. Yeah medical science has saved millions of lives, and added years to our lives. With out a simple vaccination, or even caugh medicine, millions could be dead right now. Thats perfectly fine, but its things like cloning, and abortion that gets many angry. People constantly cover there backs with abortion by saying its a choice. Your killing unborn and saying its your choice. Hell yeah its your choice, i mean you decide to kill someone or not. My point is, science is all right, untill you take it too fare. Anyways, i havnt heard about christians trying to suppress knowledge. The bible doesnt tell me dont use your computer, or dont go to school.... you might get smarter Crap.... even catholics (you consider them christians, even though they break just about every commandment and rule/condition God has set up for people) The pope accepts the big bang theory so ive heard, and since he does every catholic will because he thinks hes God... Already told you I'm no devout follower of science - don't you read what I write? I read your stuff, i was using science as an example. -lukeskywalker1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 Im guessing your talking about what i wrote above. Since it was my answer to your question, that I quoted, then yes. Seems to me you didn't even bother to find out what I was referring to, and if that is the case; that you don't bother reading your opponent's (as in we are in opposition) postings, then how do you feel justified in responding? Originally posted by lukeskywalker1 ok, you see a murder, you see the murderer, and the victom. He goes to court the jury say hes inoccent, he goes free. Do you change your mind, even though you saw it? A little bit different to christianity, but same point. First of all the murderer is innocent, in the understanding of not guilty, in my eyes as I do no believe in guilt, but that's besides the argument. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across here, but am I to understand you've witnessed God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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