Emon Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 wudan, if you what you say becomes a problem, we'll probably reduce it strictly to a mod for other developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 22, 2003 Author Share Posted July 22, 2003 Personally, I'd prefer a SOL (Smacktard Open License). Meaning that while the code is open to the public, we still reserve the right to restrict usage if certain individuals start pulling crap. But I don't think that sort of thing will be nessicary too often. With a easy and "community-open" ability to add features directly to OJP, why make a 50 zillion clones to make additions like in the case of JediMod? Sure, there will probably always be knockoff mods that wish to do major gameplay changes (like MovieBattles), but that's the whole point of the project concept. Restricting non-mod specific changes (like ghoul2 hit detection) only forces players to choose mods based on raw feature lists instead of the actual gameplay/style of the mod. Heck, imagine how Saga could have taken off if there had been a universially accepted, open source codebase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASk Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 But it didn't, and last time I checked, either that map creator, or Artifex (or was it Anakin) are credited for it...in the eyes of the community of course. But that's what matters, I do not think that if a group of ~5-10 people know who had done which part, and a group of 5000 believes that 1 person done it all, the smaller group will ever have chance to win. Hell, I challenge you to find 1 person that just plays JK2, that knows who Dest is. The only name they know now is BOFH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I'd prefer a collaboration between a group of server admins and coders, come to think of it. Server admins could tell us what is working and what isn't, and what is being abused, so the mod collaboration can be pro-active in fixing and solving problems. Basically, for a time, an open beta on a closed number of servers. Although I'd prefer closed source, I'd want the project to live on rather than hand it off to a team who wouldn't use it, so if you do want to leave a legacy, Open Source is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Raiser Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Originally posted by Emon I just linked a coder for JK who wants to move to JA to this, in a thread at Massassi. Yea, that'd be me. Lets see here............ wait, it all makes no sense. This would basically be an 'official community approved' JA mod for others to build off of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Nope, nothing officially official, and the word "community" in this sense is loose. But it's a good idea that a lot of folks will want to get behind, and some folks will want to abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Well, it would be as "official" as the community can make it. Unfortunately, Raven can't do so much as a press release without direct approval from LEC's legal department. But it didn't, and last time I checked, either that map creator, or Artifex (or was it Anakin) are credited for it...in the eyes of the community of course. Maybe it's because that mapmaker was the only person that actually did anything with it. No offence, but the code fix mod for Saga was a rush job. It came out without any fanfare or input from other people helping on the "Saga Project". Sides, what do you want? A parade? A trophy wife? To a Jedi these matter not. Well, maybe the hot babe wife..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Yeah, I don't really care about fame or anything. I have enough of it as it is, and it sickens me. People find me in #Massassi, e-mail me or PM me with the dumbest questions, ask me to fix their level, to make a mod for them. Ugh. I don't want more of this. I'm sure Hell Raiser can sympathize from JK. On his forums, all sorts of annoying people worship him. It makes me sick, I don't want to know what it does to him. Anyways, Hell Raiser, the idea here is an open source mod for other developers to work off of. Personally, I'd like to code a lot of singleplayer things into multiplayer, to either be used strictly for singleplayer or for co-op. My friends who also are working on large SP projects are disappointed with the limitations we have come across. I'm the only coder among these guys, and I feel the need to do something like this, for myself and for my friends' projects which I'd really like to see shine. Some basic things would be bugfixes, improved GHOUL2 collision as wudan mentioned, or new entities to make mapping easier. I know you aren't that familiar with Q3 yet (at least I don't think), so an entity is basically like a template for a thing in JK, except made from a bunch of C code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Raiser Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Heh, whens the last time you've been to the TDiR forums Emon? They're plagued with topics on bugs and crashes and whining people who think they know how to fix things. The praise era has been gone for a while... Anyway, I'm semi familiar with Q3 coding. *hugs Code3Arena* I did alot of reading before JO came out and have a rough understanding of how things work with the Q3 series of games. Hell, I could probably figure most of it out on my own anyway. Well, as things in RL are up in the air for me, you'll have to ask me again later when JA is out and the SDK available for download. As much as I'd like to start another project (or fantasize really) to kill time with, I've no time to kill right now, nor in the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 On a side note, I think people remember BOFH and not Dest because Dest stopped making JediMod after 1.2, and BOFH was still making more stuff after that. Anyone who came late into the game will only know BOFH because his new big fat versions overshadow the old JediMod. It's like how people don't know what MOSAIC is, even though IE is based off it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 exactly, emon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordEradicator Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I worked on the Tenebrae and Tenebrae 2 Quake engine modification projects. They are both open source andwe have no problems about clones. Its not that we aren't popular either. We've had time on planetquake and other websites. We add stencil buffered shadows, reflections, Quake3 MD3 model format, Quake3 BSP format, enhanced particle effects with scripting, a Quake 3 like shader system, and more. We are open source as required by the Quake engine GPL liscense and we've never had problems with clones. I'm also the creator of the FanMod for JK2 at http://www.modsrus.com . It was the first ever source code modification for JK2. I can tell you that almost anyone from the JK2 community today has never heard of me yet FanMod had over 10,000 downloads from June 09 to June16, 2002. So I can also agree with the credit and names getting lost in time point of view, but I don't think that really matters as I left the JK2 community for a long time and stopped supporting the mod simply because I had moved on to other projects. Overall, I think this project is a good idea and I would be willing to contribute. We could make it like an advanced community SDK or source code base that all other mods that heavily alter gameplay could base it off just so all mods have the core fetaures that every mod truly needs. I think we could even add gameplay affecting features and have them cvar controllable and have those cvars off by default. As you can tell by FanMod I love cvars and server configurability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 <3 you ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 And by the way, I heard of your FanMod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnarf Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Uh, I'm a coder, and Emon suggested I join, I'm open to joining and I have experience in the open-source community. My only constraint is the amount of time I'm able to dedicate to this project: Once school starts on September 4, I will be very busy and thus will not always be able to put in as much time as I'd like to. P.S. LordEradicator, I have the prestigious claim to having released the first mod (though non-code) for JO. Yes, behold übersaber in all of its glory. I don't really remember what it was, but I think I just changed the JPG for the lightsaber blade to look better. Yes, what better credentials could one need than this? Edit: http://www.massassi.net/levels/files/1946.shtml I made the saber better and I made the respawn bubble blue. Now if that doesn't qualify me, I don't know what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Time constrants aren't really an issue as we're probably going to go with a CVS system. (Meaning you'll be able to edit the code @ your own pace.) Anyway, I think it's time to discuss specifics. Namely, what sort of requirements should we have on the copyright license, what sort of organization should we have, and where should we host it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Sourceforge or Freshmeat... and like you said, Smacktard Open License to keep away the morons, if either place will allow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Yeah, but should we force people to open source any project based on OJP? And who decides what can be submitted or not? And when/where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I'm not sure about forcing the open source... I want to say yes, because chances are fans of open source aren't the kind that would clone your mod and try to "steal your fame". The guys who would do this probably wouldn't want to make their mod open source... so perhaps it could be added idiot protection. You don't have to give everyone access to CVS, only staff members. If someone wants to contribute, we can give them access, or if they just have a hack or patch, we could upload it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 11, 2003 Author Share Posted August 11, 2003 Yeah, but there's also a concern that people won't accept OJP if it forces everyone to go open source. I meant how do we decide when someone should have write access to the source code? Personally, I think things should be feature based. If you have a new feature up and ready to go, we'll give out access. As such, things that aren't working yet won't be put on the master copy. Personally, I think we sort of need a "Wiseman Committee" to oversee the project and determine what should and shouldn't be put on the master copy. In addition, I think we need to be very specific on how code alterations should be handled. They need to be neat and well organized so addition features don't turn the code into a big, fat mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Agreed. And why are the forum colors so ****ed up? Bright teal, wtf?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 Any suggestions on how we should do that? I'm blanking at the moment. Yeah, I bitched about the colors and I think they're now messing with us because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 A public forum, private forum and public IRC channel would a start. Private IRC can be done, but I don't think it's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Server: irc.holonet.org Channel: #OJP I chose Holonet because it's a very nice Star Wars IRC network, and on it reside the Massassi and TACC channels. I thought about QuakeNet or GamesNet for more traffic, but those networks are large, slow, crappy and don't use services nearly as good as Holonet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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