dunno Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 No, I don't mean the saber system as in the new dual and staff saber, but I mean the animation and feel of the saber fighting in general. I know, from reading interviews before, that Raven had basically made separate saber systems for single and multiplayer in JO and that they wanted in JA to make the systems as similar as possible. I always thought that meant that they would attempt to make the multiplayer as close to the single player as possible, because I think most everyone would agree that the single player saber system in JO was better than the multiplayer. It seems much smoother and flowing than the multiplayer system. Though, I didn't realize what Raven actually meant that they would, instead, bring the single player system closer to the multiplayer?!? I guess if you played JO multiplayer mainly, you wouldn't notice the difference and JA might even seem to be an upgrade. But since I played JO exclusively single player (and probably JA too), this was a big downgrade. Also, the walking animations are really ugly for dual and staff sabers with the squat-walking thing and the moving animations in general seem to be "out-of-sync" with the world compared with JO. It seems like they cover more ground than what the speed of their leg movement would suggest. It just seems more stiff animation than JO. I guess it's kind of a minor detail and I could get used to it, but coming from JO's seemingly better animation, its a bit of a downgrade. I actually preordered this game. Actually its the first game I've ever preordered, but the downgraded saber system, which is rather critical considering the game is revolved around the sabers, and awkward animation is making me consider cancelling and just waiting to pick it up when the price goes down...I seem to be in a very small minority though, seeing that the first feedbacks from the demo are mainly positive, but does anyone else see it the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilandau-Sama Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I think the saber system is much much better than JOs. You just havent done the ultra special moves yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XanaJedi Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 We play this game for fun , it is not a way of life, its just a freeking video game, grow up, geeeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I agree alot, JO was a bit better, JA is a bit of a mess, just swing and win with the sabers. It's too bad with all the ignorant people not seeing it, pretending the game is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Just who are you calling ignorant? =p Personally, I'm not complaining, and I played JO mostly in SP, admittably, the slow walking animation with the double bladed saber is hilarious, but hey, every game needs to have something hilarious, in Jedi Knight that was force speed and then running sideways, it still cracks me up. XD Anyway, I like what they've done with the engine , and I'm definatly going to get the complete game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B00thbe Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I thought it was wicked, but this is from a guy who only played singleplayer once then just played multiplayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin1607 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Uh, I played JO single exclusively too. What's wrong with it? The saber hit collision detection is a million times better, the enemies aren't push overs, there are a ton of new moves, and combat just flows better than it used to. I think you had your expectations a wee bit too high pal. And there's nothing wrong with the dual saber run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 While I'll reserve judgement until I can play the full retail version in multiplayer, for now I don't have a real problem with the saber system as is. The dual sabers and saber staff will obviously take some getting used to, but the single seems fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunno Posted September 6, 2003 Author Share Posted September 6, 2003 Guess it's just me then, heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord_44 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 One thing I hate is the ability of Dual and Double bladed sabers to chain moves indefinately. You could continually hold a direction and attack and it would never stop. Remember red has 3 moves then stops, yellow has 5, and blue has 9 or so if doing spins but if not indefinate. I really think they should do something about this indefinate chain for the MP version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Since we haven't even SEEN MP yet, for all you know Raven did that on purpose in order to balance the Saberstaff and Dual Sabers with the Single Saber. So before you complain and ask for a patch, perhaps you should consider that it might be for balance purposes? That's even assuming its identical in MP... just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord_44 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I know what your talking about kurgan but what Raven said was they would try to make MP as close to SP as possible so therefore I came up with this hypothesis. It may be addressed already. It was just a comment because this is an opinion section and that happens to be mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 He didn't say anything about NO OPINIONS ALLOWED, man, keep your shirt on. And I think Blue is infinite chains...I never used it enough to find out. Personally...I LOVE this new system. My only complaint is that the Dual saber "forward flip" or whatever very rarely is fatal, giving dual stance fewer options. I think the Katas are sweet (in SP), I like the twirls, I like the kick/roll from knockdown...heck, I like just about all of it. I'll have to wait and see about MP...it will be an adventure, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I would guess that the Katas, while showy, would be a very high risk move in general, since if you miss, you're going to be an easy target for your opponent (be he a saberist or gunner, etc). They would probably work best when they were down on the ground or in a corner (or something like that). That's my guess. Hey, I was expressing my opinion too.. and since we don't have the final MP game, neither one of is can really be proven right yet. That's the beauty of it. ; ) I see your point too, I just think that its always possible for tweaks to drastically change the dynamic in favor of balance for MP. For example, many of the Force powers work very similarly to how they worked in JK2 single player. And if the Sabers were the only thing they tried to "get as close to each other as possible" in SP/MP, the different force powers will change the entire dyanmic. Now granted, this is speculation, but how many of us honestly think that Force Speed will slow down the entire game in MP? Stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagami Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I dunnoe about the rest of you peeps but Im simply hyper over the additions of wall jumps!! I think its going to add a whole new dimension to watching saber duels in MP! Perhaps Raven's been watching too many kung-fu movies? My only beef with the saber system is how your character walks! Geez, did you look at how your character walks when he uses a lightsaber staff? Very gawky...I was hoping more of a Darth Maul kind where he circles obi-wan slowly, very kick-ass to do this in a duel game! Other than that Im going to be a very happy Jedi come 19 Sep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alzarin Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Besides the new moves i havent noticed even the slightest difference in single bladed in JA then in JO , im talking single player here of course, wasnt too much of fan of the MP played it for a few weeks but not too much after they made the sabers nearly useless , can someone mention how its different ? i dont get it , everything die with a similar amount of damage being done and hit detection seems way better on JA , not sure what this guys point is ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 The thing i like about the katas are, incase you miss the opponent or he backs off, you can cancel it into a force push not even finish it. Other combos that i like to use are drain up close, force push, then proceed slice and dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablodiablo Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Originally posted by dunnno Also, the walking animations are really ugly for dual and staff sabers with the squat-walking thing and the moving animations in general seem to be "out-of-sync" with the world compared with JO. It seems like they cover more ground than what the speed of their leg movement would suggest. It just seems more stiff animation than JO. I guess it's kind of a minor detail and I could get used to it, but coming from JO's seemingly better animation, its a bit of a downgrade. I totally agree, Im tempted to re-install JO just to check, they seem to be skating around, when you move and stop you skid to a halt, it looks rubbish and unrealistic, I have'nt got a clue why they changed the animation/movement like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryudom Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 they seem to be skating around, when you move and stop you skid to a halt its the same as in JO sp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunno Posted September 7, 2003 Author Share Posted September 7, 2003 After playing the demo a bit longer, I guess the saber combat itself isn't so different. Admittedly, I kinda posted on impulse after only trying the demo for a short while, heh. Though, I still think the animations seem a bit more awkward than Jedi Outcast. I guess that is what made me think that the saber system changed somehow, since as you can imagine a change in the animation system can change how the saber combat seems to work. It still seems a bit "out-of-sync" compared to JO for me. Btw, anyone noticed that the Desann and Tavion styles still exist? Desann's style seem to have a couple new moves, the DFA from strong stance and the lunge strike from light stance. Tavion's seem to be pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJedi Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 True yes you can chain the regular swing moves indefinetly with staff and dual but if you do you get killed, simple as that, the AI is a big improvement. What is most impressive about JA in comparison to JO is that this game requires more skill in saber combat, way more. As for the walking animation where do you think they got that? I think they got it from Episode 1. Thats exactly how Maul stood in his defensive stance its just that you never seen him walk forwards. I think all they really did was they bent the nees too much and thats just nit picking, big deal! Just so there is no misunderstanding of what iv said I would like to state that I am the first guy to recognize a serious downgrade. I do not believe this game is a downgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[SiN]-KDrej Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Originally posted by Kidso What is most impressive about JA in comparison to JO is that this game requires more skill in saber combat, way more. Putting a blindfold over my eyes and sitting on one hand while I play would make it require even more skill but I don't think that is the direction the game needs to go in. The saber combat in the demo is loose, unresponsive and erratic. This generally leads to a lot of button mashing and flashy looking spin moves. And although this may excite people and make them feel like they are in the movies, it will translate into poor multiplayer combat for true saber players. JO multiplayer had crisp, responsive, fast paced controls. If you gave it a small tap to the left, spun 180 and did a fast side swing you would respond immediately and execute each move with precision. The combat in that demo was far from that. You player seems almost drunk or drugged because of how sluggish and unresponsive he is when compared to JO multiplayer. The moves can still be done of course, but everything is just so much slower and restricted now. And the movement physics themselves are horrible. I honestly had to look at the ground a few times to see if I was on a patch of ice because of how sloppy the play control was at times. The game looks wonderful and sounds amazing but the game play seems to have been taken down to something resembling a child’s game that anyone can "master" by mashing buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|GG|Carl Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Originally posted by SithOfDoom! You just havent done the ultra special moves yet. Exactly! Try to push both attack buttons at the same time! With all saber styles you'll do something cool! Especially with double bladed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amas128 Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Originally posted by [siN]-KDrej The moves can still be done of course, but everything is just so much slower and restricted now. I totally disagree. Besides the dual sabers, every move is almost too fast. It really takes some of the importance of timing out of what used to be in Outcast, but I'll get used to it. In fact, I already am. I see what you're saying with dual sabers, but that's because they're more flashy and take more time to pull off. Originally posted by [siN]-KDrej The game looks wonderful and sounds amazing but the game play seems to have been taken down to something resembling a child’s game that anyone can "master" by mashing buttons. Disagree again about the mashing buttons. If anything, it's even less than in JO. When you first got the game, did you honestly NOT just hold down the mouse button in blue stance? I really doubt that you didn't. After you got better, I'm guessing you only attacked when necessary. Now, if you do play multiplayer, what do you do when you play someone new at the game who just holds down the mouseclick and runs around? Well I don't know about you, but I either use one of the three special moves or I roll around them and slice them with red swings. If someone just swings wildly, a good player in MP or a tough bot will just block and attack. If anything, Academy makes it more satisfying for "noobs" to just swing wildly, but in reality, it'll be tougher for them when playing someone skilled with all the new acrobatics, special moves, and who has skill with the lightsaber in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moraine Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Overall I loved the demo. The jedi tomb level was awesome. The fact that you can switch from staff saber to single adds variety to the dueling. The dueling is still kind of sloppy compared to what you see in the films. Imagine if it was like Virtua Fighter where you can block attacks instead of running away as a form of defense. The ai of the gunners wasnt to great. There like turrets in disguise. Even a dumb dog will run for cover when it senses danger. Jango Fett almost killed Obiwan in ep 2. Just like in JO there is a camera lag in 3rd person. Nothing to do with framerate. When you turn, the camera takes a sec to catch up. Not a huge deal but i like a camera thats with you 100% like in Vice City. Then again the cam didnt lag in JO mp, just sp. I guess it will be the same with JA. I still had a lot of fun playing and I plan on getting the full version. No game is perfect. You could find lots of problems with any game. Vice City is one of my fav games but you could make a huge list of things that could be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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