Moves look cool, never hit anything

[AnArKey]

I'm never gonna hit anybody with the heavy DFA as it is now. You have to be pointed at your enemy to execute it. Problem being, the enemy is not there anymore by the time you land. In JO, I always had to lead my target to land a DFA. As it is now, I just did that move 20 times against a enemy on easy difficultly, and didn't connect once.

 

Anybody figure out a way to actually connect?

 

Same goes for the yellow arial DFA, I can't aim after I jump in the air, and therefore, always miss. Same goes for the arial on the saberstaff.

 

The ground stab I really like, if the enemy wasn't ALWAYS able to roll out from under it. 20 executions, no connection.

[dunno]

Yeah, the ground stab seems pretty useless against enemy Jedi. I actually hit with the ground stab once, though, but it was all luck because the AI happened to fall next to the wall and apparently tried to roll out into the wall and got nowhere so I managed to stab him.

[[SiN]-KDrej]

Welcome to the world of useless moves that look really cool and "movie like".

 

 

I really hope multiplayer is more refined than this silly button mash fest.

 

[Obi-Wan X]

The ground stab was actually pretty useful for me, though I think it'll be extremely easy to dodge in multiplayer.

[Prime]

Originally posted by [siN]-KDrej

Welcome to the world of useless moves that look really cool and "movie like".

 

 

I really hope multiplayer is more refined than this silly button mash fest.

 

I really think it is a little too early to declare that moves are useless and that everything is a mash fest...

[Obi-Wan X]

I feel as if JA is somewhat catering to newbs...I don't know.

 

You've got some new...stupid way (imo) for wallkick, you've got some strange way of DFA. I don't know . Right now I think that the lightstaff was done pretty well, but I feel as if the dual sabers may need some major tweaking...

[Kurgan]

Everybody is saying different things about the sabers:

 

Some are saying the Saberstaff dominates all, others are saying the Fast and Strong stances are cheap as all hell (the fast because of spinning, the Strong because of speed and the DFA... and at the same time people are saying the Dual Sabers are way unbalanced.

 

Welcome to the world of community whining & clashing opinions!

 

No offense.. ; )

[Redwing]

That says to me that Raven did their job well, and people are gonna be using a nice variety of lightsaber styles

 

I also haven't been able to hit anyone with the ground stab. But I got hit alot of times...seems like it'll be a more useful move in MP, where opponents don't have uber reflexes

[[SiN]-KDrej]

Originally posted by Obi-Wan X

I feel as if JA is somewhat catering to newbs...I don't know.

 

It is.

 

I am a star wars fan and I really do think JA does the franchise justice, but as a gamer it is very disappointing from what I have seen.

 

There are many games like X-Box Obi-Wan and PSX Jedi Power Battles that are fun to play but as for something that takes a serious amount of hand-eye dexterity and mental strategy, it simply is not there.

 

This game does not cater to the guy who plays games like quake 3 or counter-strike religiously or even the guys who played Jedi Outcast only for the fast paced gaming content.

 

It is more directed towards the Star Wars fan that occasionally plays online games and has little experience in the fast paced world of First Person Shooters.

 

It does not seem like a bad game but it does not seem like something that was made “by gamers for gamers” if you catch my drift.

[cheeto101]

personally, i think everyone complaining is nuts,

 

First Off: Its only a demo, things will have changed (go play the jo demo, it was diff then the final product)

 

Second: Its alot easier to mod JA, so in a few months, theyll be new saber stances poppin up and a bunch of new mods catering to everyones wants,

 

And Finally, WE've had the demo for what, a few days. as the game wears on, New strategies and such will arise, patches will come out, stuff will change.

 

Its simply too early to make any kinda of real judgement on what the final product will end up like

[MattJedi]

The sabers are well balanced, thats all and no one except for a select few, (ie myself) can see that Raven has actually done there job this time.

 

"Oh no I can't land the death from above!!"

 

I landed it once, what does that say? that it wont be spammed and that is a good, no its a great thing!!! Because people used to complain about that! If anyone remembers!? Seems like everyone is so used to complaining thats all they do anymore, whine and complain, some people need to grow the **** up I think.

 

Same goes for the medium flip attack, that wont be spammed either!! SEE!!! Open your eyes!! This isnt a game for newbs this is a game for people who arent noobs and dont spam the same move over and over again until they either finally land it or they die cause they suck, nough said.

[Kurgan]

[siN]-KDrej, you say all that and you haven't even SEEN multiplayer.

 

Siege... need I say more?

 

And don't you dare compare this game to Jedi Power Battles.... *shudder* speak not of that abomination again!

[CHeavyarms]

I think that you guys fail to realize that this is a brief moment in the game, you are a young apprentice. It takes time to learn as a student to be good, thats the approach they were going for. There will definatly be things to learn in the ways of strategy, the longer you play the more your jedi developes and learnes and same goes with you as the gamer.

 

Fundamently the game is the same as JO, it got great reviews for its intesity as a FPS, this will too. I think people were expecting too much of a change in the game, which was very unlikly considering it is using the same engine and based on the same idea. Its improved and will be better then Jedi Outcast.

[MattJedi]

Ok I know I just posted but theres one more thing, who starts a thread that says

 

"Moves look cool, can't hit anything"

 

that proves right there that we are all noobs to this game cause who ever created this thread is a noob. I admit that I am a noob, how can you not be the game isnt even out yet. Anyway thats all for now, well until someone else says something really stupid like

 

"Oh no when I force jump I fall off the cliff, damnit I can't wait till people start making mods so I can fly around and be invincible."

[Kurgan]

Yeah, see on the one hand, we're all disappointed that the game isn't revolutionary and new.

 

On the other we're miffed that this or that thing that we liked was changed or "added to" when it shouldn't have with the new features.

 

The demo has been out a few days, it will take time to adjust to the new stuff and learn. It's tempting to try to view it through JK2 eyes and dismiss the new stuff out of hand as being "for n00bs."

 

First impressions are definately important and if you hated the demo, chances are you won't like the game much either, but without a real dig into multiplayer, I don't think this game can be fairly assessed yet.

 

That's my opinion, feel free to disagree. ; )

[Andy867]

You know what the problem with all the opinions expressed here are?

 

 

They are all based on a 2 Mission Demo... So really none of the major concerns can be expressed until Sept 17th if you think about it...

[JediofVengeance]

Originally posted by Kurgan

[siN]-KDrej, you say all that and you haven't even SEEN multiplayer.

 

Siege... need I say more?

 

And don't you dare compare this game to Jedi Power Battles.... *shudder* speak not of that abomination again!

 

As a matter of fact, my friend and I have spent countless nights tackling Power Battles. It was extremely frustrating, but i think at that point in time, we were really desperate with anything that had lightsabers and force in it.

[[SiN]-KDrej]

Originally posted by Kidso

I landed it once, what does that say? That it won’t be spammed and that is a good, no it’s a great thing!!! Because people used to complain about that! If anyone remembers!? Seems like everyone is so used to complaining that’s all they do anymore, whine and complain, some people need to grow the **** up I think.

 

Same goes for the medium flip attack, that won’t be spammed either!! SEE!!! Open your eyes!! This isn’t a game for newbs this is a game for people who aren’t noobs and don’t spam the same move over and over again until they either finally land it or they die cause they suck, nough said.

 

 

 

You may not have intended to but you just made my point many times over.

 

"Spam" all you want, dfa, yellow dfa, lunges whatever.

 

A skilled player is not affected by move "spamming", if anything it makes killing people much easier for us because your attacks are predictable.

 

The only people who take issue with move "spamming" are unskilled players.

 

If you are glad moves won't be "spammed" you just confirmed that you were one of the many people who did not take the time to learn the defensive counter measures (for things like the 1.02 dfa or the 1.03 back stab).

 

Yes those moves were quite easy to avoid and counter if a player simply took the time to learn the game mechanics.

 

But for many people it is simply easy to dismiss "move spamming" as something that "takes no skill" yet they fail to notice the irony that pertains to that statement.

 

If it is the same thing over and over and over why is it an issue?

You know what is coming, avoid it and counter and win right?

 

That was how I dealt with it for over a year; I don't see why others could not.

 

 

 

 

 

Kurgan,

 

Yes you are correct. I have not played multiplayer but I do recall that it has been stated on many occasions that single player and multiplayer are supposed to be very similar in JA.

 

Now granted some things will have to change but I think it is pretty safe to assume that multiplayer will not be a total departure from the single player experience.

 

Having played both single player and multiplayer in Jedi Outcast I can say I enjoyed single player for the star wars “experience” but as far as the game mechanics went, it would have made for a horrible experience if it was directly ported into multiplayer.

 

The camera angle, the movement physics, the simplistic saber system, the overall slower pace in general may have been “movie like” but it would have been horrible if it was used when trying to deal with human reflexes and dexterity.

 

Jedi Academy so far reminds me much, much more of JO single player than anything, and if multiplayer is supposedly fairly the same as single player this time around, can anyone honestly say with a straight face and uncrossed fingers that this is a faster paced, more complicated game?

 

Let me rephrase that, can anyone who was actually very skilled in Jedi Outcast multiplayer saber combat say this is the direction a skilled saberist from Jedi Outcast would want the game to go in?

 

And yes I am sure there are plenty of moves to be discovered yet, but the “floating on ice” style physics of the player movement and erratic hit detection and the general unresponsive execution of moves when compared to JO multiplayer is hardly something I would consider as “taking more skill”.

 

 

My basic point is this:

 

Take the fast paced complex saber combat in Jedi Outcast 1.04 (I know the damages were too weak but ignore that for a second).

 

Now strip away all of the speed and complexity that made it what it was and add several flashy but ineffective *against human reflexes type moves.

 

Sure that new “butterfly” move may make you feel like darth maul but do you think Billy from Ohio is going to have any trouble dodging it?

 

The same goes for the button mashing feel of this demo.

 

In Jedi Outcast if you mashed buttons you simply looked like a fool.

 

In Jedi Academy you mash buttons half of the time will launch into some cool looking (but incredibly easy to avoid if it was a human you were playing) type of flashy move.

 

Now seriously, what do you see the majority of players doing, taking the time to master the saber or just mashing buttons and playing out their star wars fantasies?

 

 

This is why I am very disappointed in the overly simplistic direction saber combat seems to have been taken in.

[WillyWonka]

You can thank the whining asshats from JKII for that one. They brought you 1.03 and 1.04 patches which brought the era of useless pretty moves.

[Gabrobot]

JO MP hit detection only used a bounding box thingy for hit detection while JO SP and JA SP use per poly hit detection...now which do you think would be more accurate?

 

It sounds more like the problem here is someone who doesn't want to change and played the demo with the attitude of "since it's not what I'm used to, and what I thought would work, then it must not work". I see no problem with the way JO SP and JA SP work...I found JO MP, however, to be very flawed...especially the collision detection.

[Andy867]

[siN]-KDrej, did you not hear that for FFA, CTF and other NON-duel modes, that the saber strength would be increased for fast paced action cuz basically Raven knew people didn't want to have to spend 3-5 minutes dueling it out during a CTF match. So that will allow for fast paced action.. Some comes running at you, execute a skilled move that you took timne to learn and voila, one less enemy to get in the way.

[WillyWonka]

Originally posted by Gabrobot

JO MP hit detection only used a bounding box thingy for hit detection while JO SP and JA SP use per poly hit detection...now which do you think would be more accurate?

 

It sounds more like the problem here is someone who doesn't want to change and played the demo with the attitude of "since it's not what I'm used to, and what I thought would work, then it must not work". I see no problem with the way JO SP and JA SP work...I found JO MP, however, to be very flawed...especially the collision detection.

 

Problem is that they changed the attacks in JKII to decrease their efficiency since they hit too often. Not that they switched to 'poly hit' the same less efficient moves are even less effective.

 

It's not about switching the way you play, the question is are carried over nerfed attacks effective enough to be useful in JA. Against brainless CPU enemies yes, against me when I meet you on-line, no.

[cheeto101]

k SiN]-KDrej, nobody here has even played multiplayer, so how the heck can you say its goin all noobish and button mashing?? No matter what game it is (unless its wwf raw for snes ) button mashers always get their ass kicked. What was it you said at the top, all it takes is to learn the game mechanics?? Im sure that when JA comes out and you actually try it, youll find that button mashing noobs get owned by decent use of tactics and the force. Dont go puttin down the game before you actually even try it out, and if it is as screwed up as you think it will be, theres always patches and mods.

 

And as for all the talks about useless moves, im sure theyll all have their place in multiplayer. If not, well then, heh, there will always be patches and mods.

 

(man, im soooooo stoked for some sweet saber mods for JA,)

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by Destino

Problem is that they changed the attacks in JKII to decrease their efficiency since they hit too often. Not that they switched to 'poly hit' the same less efficient moves are even less effective.

 

It's not about switching the way you play, the question is are carried over nerfed attacks effective enough to be useful in JA. Against brainless CPU enemies yes, against me when I meet you on-line, no.

 

I thought that Raven did the special move system very well in JA...they were easier to do (as far as pushing buttons and the fact that you don't need an enemy in front of you to do certain attacks like you did in JO) so that I could actually use them when I wanted to when I wanted to rather than a lucky key combination.

 

Having per poly detection means you have to be more skilled to hit your opponent instead of an invisible box around them...if you're not skilled enough, then try an easier difficulty setting so that the 'brainless CPU enemies' don't try as hard to evade your mis-aimed special moves.

[BigMexican]

some moves are useless. the dual saber's double throw and spin around the body move for instance? it's nothing but instant death in multiplayer. maybe if it was faster to start, but as soon as someone sees you crouch, they move out of the way and throw their saber at you.

 

however, a lot of moves are very useful. the downward stab for instance, when used in the right circumstances is incredibly powerful, as long as you don't just do it whenever someone hits the ground, you'll be ok. know when and where to use moves and you'll be a good player in no time.