Time to ditch the saber system.

[Agen]

Um, you didn't really back up your statements. You said it look just like JO, I told you why it wasn't. Footprints, seen that before, yes, not in JO. This was JO vs JA here, not JA vs every other new game on the market. JA's visual quality is a lot better than JO's, if you can't see it, you're blind.

 

Edit: Oh, and don't go saying it's bad for the effect, his computer just sucks. Since you don't know anything about graphics programming, I don't think you're in a position to speak.

Well um... JO didn't have snow for footprints so... why woudl it have footprints. Also JO never had the chance to have visual breath, we never went to hoth

Ja's Visual quality is better, yeah but not by much... not a lot.

 

Also, the visual effect for push/pull is well ... stupid. I never refer to the movies but there was no visual effect in the movies that resembled anything like that at all. In grip it's understandable, they have to know what's happening easy enoguh, the simple blue puff round your hands in JK2 was fine for me. Also, you have no idea how much i know about graphics programming, I don't think you're in the position to comment. I can speak about anything I want to do with the game.

 

A lot of the stuff that's done in JA's levels couldn't be done in JKII because of engine limitations. (Size of levels for instance...terrain as well)

Yeah, I know. Shows you how far the Q3 engine can go

 

I got news for you buddy... detail IS eye candy... so to a degree is scale. If it isn't inherently critical to the functionality of gameplay, it is by definition "eye candy." They just as easily could have slapped together a large box for us to play in with a few random obstacles to hide behind and called it a "map."

 

uh huh, in JA you could more or less go everywhere you could see, with exception of the tram level and a few others i could mention.

[Emon]

Well um... JO didn't have snow for footprints so... why woudl it have footprints. Also JO never had the chance to have visual breath, we never went to hoth

Ja's Visual quality is better, yeah but not by much... not a lot.

JO had dirt, where were the footprints then?

 

Also, the visual effect for push/pull is well ... stupid. I never refer to the movies but there was no visual effect in the movies that resembled anything like that at all. In grip it's understandable, they have to know what's happening easy enoguh, the simple blue puff round your hands in JK2 was fine for me.

There was also no blue puff, red glow, or any other effects in the movies. Same goes for just about any other SW game there is, many have their own effects for the simple reason that they look cool. Therefore, your argument is moot, stop trying to make up excuses for your mistake.

 

Also, you have no idea how much i know about graphics programming, I don't think you're in the position to comment. I can speak about anything I want to do with the game.

By your ignorant comment of saying it's too slow on a P3 700, I can infer that you don't know anything about it, especially since all you could respond with is, "You don't know me". If you really knew anything, you would have told me what you knew.

 

uh huh, in JA you could more or less go everywhere you could see, with exception of the tram level and a few others i could mention.

Nice totally random, irrelevant comment.

[cheeto101]

Hmmmm, ok people, The whole thing with you guys not understanding the red bein slow an powerful thing... well heres your answer.......

 

Its a game, theyre not tryin to re create the combat from the movies, theyre simply tryin to make a fun, enjoyable game. And guess what, the whole paper rock scissors thing they got goin with the saber stances, its a part of the game.

 

Honestly, come on people. If they had it like the movies, we would have a bunch of people running around with light stance killin people with one hit. To create actual swordplay (i.e fairly stationary, swords hittin eachother etc etc) would mean revamping the entire system which is not something they wanted to do in JA. You dont like the system, mod your own or switch games cause ill garundamntee you that raven aint gonna revamp their whole saber combat system.

[Kurgan]

You do know the Push/Pull "mirrored bubble" effects can be toggled off right? Turn it off and it'll look just like JK2.

[Agen]

Originally posted by Kurgan

You do know the Push/Pull "mirrored bubble" effects can be toggled off right? Turn it off and it'll look just like JK2.

How, I'm interested?

Also what i meant by the blue and red colour is that it does just enoguh to give the idea of what's happening, not go through a big animation.

 

By your ignorant comment of saying it's too slow on a P3 700, I can infer that you don't know anything about it, especially since all you could respond with is, "You don't know me". If you really knew anything, you would have told me what you knew.

Well, it's fixing something that isn't broke, why? The Push/Pull effect in jk2 was fine. Also you don't know me, I don't know you either... I could simply go and get a bunch of rabble off the internet, to prove things if i didn't know it anyway so it is pretty pointless for me to say anything on the subject technically.

The fixed something that wasn't broke.

Oh and Kurgan what's the code for disabling it?

 

Hmmmm, ok people, The whole thing with you guys not understanding the red bein slow an powerful thing... well heres your answer.......

 

Its a game, theyre not tryin to re create the combat from the movies, theyre simply tryin to make a fun, enjoyable game. And guess what, the whole paper rock scissors thing they got goin with the saber stances, its a part of the game.

 

Honestly, come on people. If they had it like the movies, we would have a bunch of people running around with light stance killin people with one hit. To create actual swordplay (i.e fairly stationary, swords hittin eachother etc etc) would mean revamping the entire system which is not something they wanted to do in JA. You dont like the system, mod your own or switch games cause ill garundamntee you that raven aint gonna revamp their whole saber combat system.

 

Listen to the man

[Darth Kaan]

I guess some people don't realize that this is a game and only a game. You can play it and have fun or not play it at all. It's a simple matter of choice...

[cylonwwiiol]

Man i guess the little kids like this system.As a STAR WARS FAN i would like it to be more like the movies.MP is nothing like the movies maybe its the little kids that grew up with ep 1 and 2(ugh!)

 

I only threw out the gamepad thing cause i thought it would have more options just an idea thats why i asked what yall thought.

[EmPreSS]

The reason the slow moving red swings do more damage is this...

 

Ok, think of it boxing terms. A power punch takes alot of energy and does the most damage... also leaves a fighter more open. Quick jabs are fast but don't do much damage. Quick flurries take less energy to do but also do less damage. A big knockout swing takes alot of energy to do, but will also do alot of damage.

 

I hope this clarifies things a little.

 

Also, imagine how absurd the game would be if the red swings were fast.... there would be no stopping them or getting away.

 

Also, you can swing an axe very fast and hack at a tree.... but it won't dig very deep. But take that same axe, lean back, take a giant swing and you'll cut very deep into a tree.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Flashblade

What are you talking about it does what I want? I want it out remember? You may think of it what you want but the fact is that it is physical BS and it was never ever portrayed like that in any of the movies! A lightsaber cuts of limbs if it hits them. It kills if one is being stabbed with it or if it hits something vital! All that yellow, blue stuff is bull as well. Fact is if there was real blocking and parrys there would be no need for saber stances that do different damage!!! Saber stances should vary by style not by speed or damage!!

But the problem is that this is a video game, and not a movie. They are different mediums trying to achieve different things. The movies are trying to make the fights look pretty. FPS games are trying to make the fights fair and fun. If you want to watch pretty fights in a game, play Knights of the Old Republic.

 

The fact is that the JK series would suck if the lightsaber fights were exactly like the movies. Out of all the lightsaber fights in the last 5 movies, how many hits has there been? Just guessing, but I think there was 2 in Phantom Menace, 3 in AOTC, 1 in A New Hope, 2 in Empire, and 1 in Jedi. That's 9. Single figure hits out of five movies. How many swings? Hundreds? Thousands? In any event, the hit ratio is something like 1%. Sounds like that would make a fun game, doesn't it? Right now people get frustrated about weak sabers. Imagine how pissed players would be if they got a hit 1 out of every 100 swings. Duels would go on for twenty minutes without a hit. Boring!

 

And back to the one hit kill thing. In the 5 movies there was two lightsaber fights that ended with a killing blow. Most of the time it was limbs getting chopped off. How fun would the game be if you had your hand chopped off, and then you had to spend the rest of the game with one hand? We have seen that there have been a majority of lightsaber hits that aren't fatal.

 

Lets take this "like the movies" premise a little further. Only dark siders should use a lightstaff, because that is what we see in the movies. And no one can start with dual sabers. They have to pick one up. That's not very fun. Guns would be practically useless against lightsabers, which would make gun/saber games pretty boring. Actually, scratch that, in any gametype Jedi Knights would not be able to use guns at all, because they don't in the movies. We should also get rid of Protect, Absorb, Heal, Drain, Rage, and Force Lightsaber Throw because we don't see these in the movies. We might as well get rid of jump after knockdown, jump kick from knockdown, backflip off a wall, sideflip off a wall, wall-run, wall grab jump, run up wall backflip, and long jump. We don't see those either. But the point is mostly mute anyway, since really the only gametypes should be Duel and Power Duel, since we have never seen Jedi in a saber only FFA, and definitely not in a CTF match.

 

Yes I'm taking it a bit far, but you see the point. Trying to make a game exactly like a movie is very restricting, and ultimately not very fun. The developers have to draw the line somewhere so that they can make a game that is playable and enjoyable.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

And you DO know that this is utter crap logic wise a "slow" swing more powerful then a fast?

But then again, Star Wars uses nothing but "utter crap logic". That is why it is fun

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

This saber system has absolutely nothing to do with swordplay of any kind!

But swordplay has very little to do with a mouse and a keyboard either. But, alas, these limitations need to be taken into consideration when making a game. Like it or not, swordplay is not going to be duplicated in a FPS. So the next best thing is to try and make it fun, and in the case of MP, try and make it usable by a normal player so they can be effective.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

I know all of this so what? As long as my blade is not moving to counter attack moves this is not a representation of sword combat I m still waiting for the game that gets that done as I see it this is far from being impossible!

Sure it may be possible, but I suspect that if you really wanted swordplay (which is quite different from lightsaber combat) in a FPS, the control system would be so difficult that average players would get so frustrated that they would hate it. And since average players make up the majority of customers, making a game unplayable for them is business suiside.

 

And the blade moves when defending, so what's the problem?

 

Originally posted by Neo61015

Also a block button would be a definite improvement to the current way that JK games do the saber fighting.

But why would a block button really make a difference? If you are saying that you want a block button so that when you hold it down you are "defending", then all that does is make you run around holding a button down all the time. What is holding a button going to do to improve automatic defense?

[Emon]

^^ ZING ^^

[Lord Sokar]

Originally posted by cylonwwiiol

Man i guess the little kids like this system.As a STAR WARS FAN i would like it to be more like the movies.MP is nothing like the movies maybe its the little kids that grew up with ep 1 and 2(ugh!)

 

Ugh yourself.

 

I'm not entirely sure I want to stand around and poke each other with sticks like old men (as in Episode 4, or wtf ever).

 

If the latest two movies did nothing (which it didn't... much), at least it brought some kick ass saber moments.

 

I find that the system is a little better with the proper blocking cvar's set. I know when I'm going to block (that's while NOT swinging and keeping the other player near your crosshair) and when I'm going to hit someone (like after a long swing and they're wide open).

 

But that's just me.

 

If only all admins would drop the tracesaberfirst and ghoul2collision (if it really does turn off).

[Deadeye]

Why is it that when ever the old argument about making the saber combat more like movies to people chime in with "well there's only 9 times in all the movies where someone gets hit." "That would be a terrrible game!" ?

 

Jeez, they don't mean EXACLTY like the movies, just MORE like them. I'm an advocate of the "more like the movies" view, and I agree: of course we should not have 1 hit kills. -duh

Most people in this camp just want more blocking, and faster moves. I always use blue stance, b/c it's by far the most fun to use. Balancing? -screw that. JO, and JA are way unblanaced b/c the player character is by far the most powerful entitiy in the game. So the AI, not even the boss characters, are not even a close to a match for the the player. If I wanted to beat the game as fast, and as effective as possible, I would use lightning/guns on all the troopers and red stance on the saber wielders. I choose not to b/c it's so unenjoyable. I also choose blue stance mostly in MP b/c it's more fun. I don't care about my ranking or getting killed. But if some people think that using Red Stance is fun, then to each his own then. I hate it and wish it were gone. Use your noodles and come up with a better saber system. Must we be locked into this stance system? Good idea, yes, but not the only one.

 

Also, people are trying to justify and explain away the rediculousness of the realism of red stance. For those people who think it takes time to concentrate, or that it's like boxing or that slow swing equals more destrcution, go get out your replica saber. -Come on, we all have one Go outside, or a big room, and take a swing closest to what a red stance would look like. Then take a swing that looks like blue stance. Now tell me, which one would you use if you were being attacked and had to beat someone with a stick? This isn't rocket science, and screw the force's involvement in this. You swing fast and hard to do damage. If you wanna look at a realworld example, watch Kendo, watch baseball, and watch the damn movies!

 

Also. People who say this is a game and not a movie. All that shows is a general lack of faith in this form of media we love so much -video games. Do you really think that sword fighting is going to be forever impossible to re-create? Red stance may balance some parts of the game, but it's still an incorrect representation of a swinging weightless blade. -It's a cop out. I don't have the answer, and most people here don't, but we all have some good ideas. -Someone (developer) will find a way to make good-looking, and good-feeling sword combat. -Raven did not do this. Don't get me wrong. They did a really good job, and I will continue to buy theirs' or anyone's JK-series game. As a whole, though, JO and JA are rather weak, uninspired games. They could have been so much better, and more on par with other highly reviewed games that have come out and are forthcoming.

 

Here's what happened to JA, and JO. Raven got the title, and began to create a melee combat system. This took up most of the development time, leaving the story, and level design rather weak. The game came out to very good reviews. So Raven gets a second title. Because of the good reviews, they simply add some more moves, and try to polish up the existing game. They have no reason to re-work the saber system. -They passed the test, and that's just fine. They don't care about really bearing down and creating a really deep involving Jedi game like Bioware did with KOTOR. Everyone got paid, and the titles are selling well. Why sweat it? -I wouldn't. But I really wish some one would create that deep, involving Jedi game.

 

If you want to use the, "it's a game, not a movie" argument, then fine, don't think of it as a movie, think of it as a swordfighting thrid person game. Guess what. It's still not like real swordfighting. -And it's not b/c it doesn't have one-hits kills.

[cheeto101]

And hey, Gues What......your argument is still absolutely useless, because raven aint gonna change their entire saber system. They might make a few changes with a patch or two, but nothin groundbreakin,

 

You want a more sword fighting ish game, then mod your own or go play that crouching tiger hidden dragon game (man, all the movies ive seen of that game look crazzinesss, sooo wanna try it, actually looks like movie sword fighting).

 

Honestly, when in history has a company completely redone a game's mechanics just cause a few people on the forum are complainin?? You want major changes, then you gotta mod.

 

They aint called TCs for nothin.

[Deadeye]

And hey, Gues What......your argument is still absolutely useless,

 

Is this directed at me? Because I agree, Raven ain't gonna do a thing. That was the point of the last part of my post about what Raven did with JO, and JA.

 

And yeah, that Crouching Tiger game looks sweet with their melee system. Maybe if they got it right, then the next Jedi game will too. Like I said before, someone will get it right, or more right, and all will be right with the world.

[cheeto101]

ahhh k, i gotcha, just misinterpreted. S'all chill.

 

Actually, i wonder if there is gonna be any anim tools this time around, i wanna see a flashy twirly single saber stance, kinda like the red kata twirls. Thats the future of JA i think, new stances and new sabers. (Which are alredy poppin up, you guys seen that light disc, its pretty kickin)

[Flashblade]

Originally posted by Prime

But the problem is that this is a video game, and not a movie. They are different mediums trying to achieve different things. The movies are trying to make the fights look pretty. FPS games are trying to make the fights fair and fun. If you want to watch pretty fights in a game, play Knights of the Old Republic.

 

The this is not a movie argument is invalid for me! This is a movie license game and when I buy such a game I want to experience something true to the movies and not so far off!

 

The fact is that the JK series would suck if the lightsaber fights were exactly like the movies. Out of all the lightsaber fights in the last 5 movies, how many hits has there been? Just guessing, but I think there was 2 in Phantom Menace, 3 in AOTC, 1 in A New Hope, 2 in Empire, and 1 in Jedi. That's 9. Single figure hits out of five movies. How many swings? Hundreds? Thousands? In any event, the hit ratio is something like 1%. Sounds like that would make a fun game, doesn't it? Right now people get frustrated about weak sabers. Imagine how pissed players would be if they got a hit 1 out of every 100 swings. Duels would go on for twenty minutes without a hit. Boring![/quote

 

How can you know since such a saber combat system does not exist. How??? It would not work like this system so don't compare it to what you experience now. That is why I bring up the ETM Kung Fu system time and again. Think of something simillar for saber combat. You would have to introduce stamina to the mix and than this game would be about wearing out your enemy. That's how Luke lost his hand, Vader his, Qui Gon died. They were all exhausted and couldn't fight back anymore. You say it yourself people bitch about weak sabers. Why do sabers have to be less then lethal? Because the saber system is so flawed that one hit MUST be survivable!

 

And back to the one hit kill thing. In the 5 movies there was two lightsaber fights that ended with a killing blow. Most of the time it was limbs getting chopped off. How fun would the game be if you had your hand chopped off, and then you had to spend the rest of the game with one hand? We have seen that there have been a majority of lightsaber hits that aren't fatal.

 

The fact remains lightsabers are lethal if a light saber runs through your body you get cut in half. If a lightsaber hits something vital (like Qui Gons stomach) it kills. If it runs through an arm the arm is gone end of story. But since this would happen at the end of the battle what is the problem?

 

Lets take this "like the movies" premise a little further. Only dark siders should use a lightstaff, because that is what we see in the movies. And no one can start with dual sabers. They have to pick one up. That's not very fun. Guns would be practically useless against lightsabers, which would make gun/saber games pretty boring. Actually, scratch that, in any gametype Jedi Knights would not be able to use guns at all, because they don't in the movies. We should also get rid of Protect, Absorb, Heal, Drain, Rage, and Force Lightsaber Throw because we don't see these in the movies. We might as well get rid of jump after knockdown, jump kick from knockdown, backflip off a wall, sideflip off a wall, wall-run, wall grab jump, run up wall backflip, and long jump. We don't see those either. But the point is mostly mute anyway, since really the only gametypes should be Duel and Power Duel, since we have never seen Jedi in a saber only FFA, and definitely not in a CTF match.

 

Yes I'm taking it a bit far, but you see the point. Trying to make a game exactly like a movie is very restricting, and ultimately not very fun. The developers have to draw the line somewhere so that they can make a game that is playable and enjoyable.

 

The lightstaff is not darkside only it is a training saber and that is the reason it is normaly not used as a weapon since it is very hard to control. Why can nobody start with dual sabers? Guns useless another why? Why should we get rid of the force powers? And actually Yoda uses against Dooku some kind of absorb on the second force lighting. Saberthrow? Can you tell me what Vader does when he throws his saber at Luke? Since you have to keep that button pressed for the blade to be there he must have used the force when he threw it in Lukes diraction. Understand me I do not want to get rid of things that add to the game I want to have something changed that is utterly wrong!

 

But then again, Star Wars uses nothing but "utter crap logic". That is why it is fun

 

Disagree the Star Wars Universe is build on the same physical system as ours and things that go against this system are being explained to make it believable. If it would go against everything we know it would have been a flop!

 

But swordplay has very little to do with a mouse and a keyboard either. But, alas, these limitations need to be taken into consideration when making a game. Like it or not, swordplay is not going to be duplicated in a FPS. So the next best thing is to try and make it fun, and in the case of MP, try and make it usable by a normal player so they can be effective.

 

ETM again. What does a mouse and a keyboard have to do with Kung Fu fighting? Answer nothing but Shiny managed to create a fun and easy to play representation of real looking Kung Fu fighting. If this can be done for hand to hand melee it can be acomblished for sword or saber fighting as well!

 

Sure it may be possible, but I suspect that if you really wanted swordplay (which is quite different from lightsaber combat) in a FPS, the control system would be so difficult that average players would get so frustrated that they would hate it. And since average players make up the majority of customers, making a game unplayable for them is business suiside.

 

And the blade moves when defending, so what's the problem?

 

ETM anyone? The blade moves a little but most of the time not. Does it move into a believable counter position? No!

 

But why would a block button really make a difference? If you are saying that you want a block button so that when you hold it down you are "defending", then all that does is make you run around holding a button down all the time. What is holding a button going to do to improve automatic defense?

 

This is not directed to me but I answer anyway. I do not want just a block button. That can be done all one has to do for this is to deactivate automatic defence and type in console bind [key] block. I want that the blades moves to counter I repeat myself I know!

 

One more thing anyone got a link to this Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon game I haven't heard of it so far!

[KaiaSowapit]

Disagree the Star Wars Universe is build on the same physical system as ours and things that go against this system are being explained to make it believable. If it would go against everything we know it would have been a flop!

 

Like sounds in outer space?

 

Look we can all debate ourselves silly about "realism" vs "fun" but ultimately what I think it boils down to is some of us have memorized the various keystrokes to perform a red dfa on demand and some of us haven't.

 

Admittedly, I fall into the latter category. Yes I can perform a red dfa (the sequence isn't THAT hard to pull off), but have I practiced it ad infinitum to the point where I can unleash one as second nature? No. Nor do I have any interest in learning. My skill falls somewhere between pure chaotic button mashing and the occasionally intentional special, and that's the way I like it. Ironically this style seems well suited to the new system in Academy and the use of dual sabers, which many have complained has resulted in the "nerfing" of red stance.

 

Boo hoo.

[cheeto101]

hmm go check out fileplanet or filefront and just search for the game, Im pretty Sure theres a couple movies of cthd there.

[Astrotoy7]

Fun is a huge factor for me, and great graphics, cool SW music is always a bonus for us SW fans!! If I really wanted something that was so technical I would take up fencing Wait for your patches boys....It's only been 2 weeks now

 

Raven has done a great job, and yes it's basic marketing nouse to cater to a general audience, from casual MP gamers like myself(I only play at Lan get-togethers with friends or with a horrde of bots/npcs), to the more intense MP fan

 

At the end of the day though, fun is still the aim - F - U - N - !

 

MTFBWYA

[Flashblade]

Originally posted by KaiaSowapit

Like sounds in outer space?

 

As far as I know that was not invented by Star Wars. Some very early Sci Fi series had this allready and yes this is the accepted exception from the rule so why bring that up?

 

Look we can all debate ourselves silly about "realism" vs "fun" but ultimately what I think it boils down to is some of us have memorized the various keystrokes to perform a red dfa on demand and some of us haven't.

 

I do not see a reason why this has to be realism vs fun. As I see it it would be realism + fun!

 

Let me paint a beautiful picture for you people. After a long (or short with adjustable stamina for the quick kill whores) saber battle your char and your opponents char are exhausted. Your chars and your opponents chars force control begins to slip and the likeness of an fatal deadly error increases! Do not tell me that when you honestly form this picture in your head that it doesn't start your adrenaline rushing. You would always have a satisfying battle whether you won or lost. No more quick unlucky deaths.

 

As for a mod as some suggested. I would love to work on such a mod however I lack programing and modelling skills for such a project all I could do would be to work on the concept and beta test and maybe offer leadership. However to create a real sword combat experience you would need motion capture that is something no mod team will ever can do.

 

And another thing sure I know that the system won't be changed I am no idiot but Raven people are reading this forums and if they see that a more true to the movies saber combat experience is being wanted, they may attempt this on the next title (in the case there will be one). And as i allready said I do not see a conflict between fun and easy to do and real looking I really don't!

[cylonwwiiol]

flash has the right idea i think the "fun" crowd are teenagers who didnt grow up with star wars like we did.

 

And what you call FUN "hack n slash" i DO NOT!!!!!!!

 

its lame and takes the IQ of an eggplant to do this.

[Emon]

This thread is so stupid. If you're anal about "realism" in a fictional universe, then go off to play your "realistic" games like CS, because we don't need you here causing trouble.

[boinga1]

If you don't like "hack 'n slash", play KOTOR. If you want "true to the movies" play KOTOR.

 

However, you MAY have realized that the players participating in Jedi Academy games do not have the power of the Force. Therefore, we cannot know our opponents moves before they happe, and cannot be ready for a move we do not know is coming. If the characters in the movies fought without the Force, THE MOVIES WOULD BE a hack 'n slash affair. Heck, the original trilogy fights ARE very much hack 'n slash. Big, slow attacks that any man with half a brain wouls stab under to kill you. So, in truth, Jedi Academy combat is really MORE LIKE the movies than "cinematic" combat (like KOTOR) is.

[Prime]

Originally posted by Flashblade

The this is not a movie argument is invalid for me! This is a movie license game and when I buy such a game I want to experience something true to the movies and not so far off!

But to most people the Dark Forces series is true enough to the movies we love. We understand that compromises have to be made so that the game is playable. If you decide that the Dark Forces game is not true enough for you, that's fine. But I suspect that you will be waiting forever for a FPS that has accurate lightsaber combat.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

The fact remains lightsabers are lethal if a light saber runs through your body you get cut in half. If a lightsaber hits something vital (like Qui Gons stomach) it kills. If it runs through an arm the arm is gone end of story. But since this would happen at the end of the battle what is the problem?

Sure, and there certain moves now that are a one hit kill (especially someone with 100 health and no shields). If you really want every move that way, you can have it. cg_saberrealisticcombat 10. I don't mind requiring a few hits to someone because I have seen this in SW as well.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

The lightstaff is not darkside only it is a training saber and that is the reason it is normaly not used as a weapon since it is very hard to control.

I've never heard that before. Do you have a reference for that? Anyway, I was trying to make a point about making a game too faithful to a movie (or real life). If you take it too far, you get silly things like the above. Even though we only see a darksider using a lightstaff, it isn't bad that the game diviates from this.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

Why can nobody start with dual sabers? Guns useless another why? Why should we get rid of the force powers?Saberthrow? Can you tell me what Vader does when he throws his saber at Luke? Since you have to keep that button pressed for the blade to be there he must have used the force when he threw it in Lukes diraction. Understand me I do not want to get rid of things that add to the game

Again, my point was not to take these things out, but to show how silly it would be to do so just because we see or don't see certain things in the movies. I'm trying to say that you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise there are going to be too many limitations on the game.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

I want to have something changed that is utterly wrong!

But what is so wrong with saber combat as it is now? I attack, my saber swings in the direction I specify (in the most basic sense). When I am not attacking, I'm defending, and when someone swings at me my saber moves to a point where it blocks it. It is quick (like "real" lightsaber fighting), but it does happen. This looks like lightsaber fighting to me.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

Disagree the Star Wars Universe is build on the same physical system as ours and things that go against this system are being explained to make it believable. If it would go against everything we know it would have been a flop!

But there are huge differences. It is a fantasy world, afterall. The Force, faster than light travel, system-spanning holocommunications, lightsabers, anti-gravity, and so on do not exist in our world. Sure they are explained in their world's terms, but it is still a deviation from our world. But that is what makes it fun.

 

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

ETM again. What does a mouse and a keyboard have to do with Kung Fu fighting? Answer nothing but Shiny managed to create a fun and easy to play representation of real looking Kung Fu fighting. If this can be done for hand to hand melee it can be accomplished for sword or saber fighting as well!

I've never played that game, so I don't really know how it plays. It may be what you wanted, and that's great, but I have heard a lot of complaints about the fighting in that game (along with everything else in the game), so I doubt it got it perfect either.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

ETM anyone? The blade moves a little but most of the time not. Does it move into a believable counter position? No!

In my JA (and JO for that matter does. If I am attacked and I block it, my blade sure moves more than a little bit. The same thing happens when I block blaster fire.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

As far as I know that was not invented by Star Wars. Some very early Sci Fi series had this allready and yes this is the accepted exception from the rule so why bring that up?

He probably brought it up because you said, "Disagree the Star Wars Universe is build on the same physical system as ours and things that go against this system are being explained to make it believable."

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

You would have to introduce stamina to the mix and than this game would be about wearing out your enemy. That's how Luke lost his hand, Vader his, Qui Gon died. They were all exhausted and couldn't fight back anymore.

Uh, what? Qui-Gon died because he was tired? What are you basing this on? The guy barely looked like he was breathing hard. And Luke got his f-ing ass kicked because Vader was unstoppable. He lost because Vader was stronger and more skilled. Are you saying Luke would have won if he was in better physical shape? In both cases they lost because their opponants made good moves that caught them off guard.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

Let me paint a beautiful picture for you people. After a long (or short with adjustable stamina for the quick kill whores) saber battle your char and your opponents char are exhausted.

Your chars and your opponents chars force control begins to slip and the likeness of an fatal deadly error increases!

And there you lost me.

 

The problem with this is that you will likely never get into a situation where both players are equally fatigued (apart from the start). Once one player1 "hits" player2 and lowers player2's energy level, the battle will be more or less over between two equal players. This is because as soon as the above happens player1 now has an advantage over player2. So now player1 is even more likely to hit and fatigue player2, and player2 is now less likely to hit and fatigue player1. So what is likely to happen next? Player1 hits player2 again, increasing the energy difference between the two. Now player2 has a much lower chance of defending against player1, who is all but assured of victory. How much fun is it to be player2? And more importantly, how much fun is it to fight a game duel when, on average, you know who is going to win within the first few moments?

 

This has been brought up many times before, and IIRC Raven has said that the reason they never implement something like this (or dismemberment and so on) is because no one wants to play a game where they are handycapped against another player.

 

Originally posted by Flashblade

Do not tell me that when you honestly form this picture in your head that it doesn't start your adrenaline rushing. You would always have a satisfying battle whether you won or lost. No more quick unlucky deaths.

I can honestly tell you that I would not like that system, because it is the truth

 

It would be very unsatisfying because knowing who would likely win right away is not fun, and being a player who is becoming more and more handycapped is not fun. And the deaths would be likely quicker than they are now. At least now both players are equally likely to score hits, which means on average the fight will last longer. The above will be quick, because the losing player's ability to defend themselves decreases, meaning the other player can kill them faster.

 

Now the system you have discribed may be much more representative to how a real life swordfight goes, but again this shows why games sometimes have to diverge from real life a bit to make the game fun

[Emon]

I nominate Prime for world dictator.