Do you consider this cheating?

[CastleBravo]

Here is a question for you:

 

I'm sure everyone who has played MP has seen that some people have found an exploit, script or outright hack that allows them to do the dual saber kata-type move (crouch with sabers flying around them), but make the sabers spin at about 100x the normal speed. All that these people seem to do is jump into crowds, do the move, and kill off the guys that aren't smart enough to jump out of the way.

 

Leaving aside the question of if this is just a lame-ass way to play, is using the trick (or whatever) to speed up the move way faster than "normal" cheating?

 

Sorry if this has already been brought up, but the search function on this site doesn't work. Thanks.

[nabroc]

Yes, I do consider this as a cheat, but not something to get all pissy about - I don't even say anything when I see it. The reason for the 'mild' cheat classification is, one can still get out of their way and the roll in + stab still works fine (although it's harder to get the timing right, not being able to see the ending of this kata as well while they are spinning at 500rps).

Put it this way, if people feel the need to do it to get atleast some kills in - go ahead, but personally I view it as bad manners and would refrain from doing so myself.

[CastleBravo]

Originally posted by nabroc

Yes, I do consider this as a cheat, but not something to get all pissy about - I don't even say anything when I see it. The reason for the 'mild' cheat classification is, one can still get out of their way and the roll in + stab still works fine (although it's harder to get the timing right, not being able to see the ending of this kata as well while they are spinning at 500rps).

Put it this way, if people feel the need to do it to get atleast some kills in - go ahead, but personally I view it as bad manners and would refrain from doing so myself.

 

Actually, that's kind of how I see it. It is sort of cheating in my book, but it is also pretty easy to counter by jumping out of the way when it winds up and roll-stabbing when it winds down. Red-style overhand smash also has enough reach to nail them without getting hit if you have good timing. I get ALOT of kills using those counter-moves to this kata, so in a sense my score benefits from other people cheating and spamming what they think is an uber move, which is pretty funny more than anything else. It only seems to rack up kill counts because new players don't seem to know that it is an instant-kill move if you don't get out of the way.

 

Then again, on one server a guy was doing it, and every time 2-3 other folks would help me roll-stab him at once before getting back to the FFA.

[Master William]

I think Force Speed + Dual Saber throw is the same almost, the player gets like invincible.

This guy ran around doing the dual saber throw, and I blue lunged him 3 times, right in his stomache, and he didn't die!

That explains how Force Speed works like SP rage.

[idontlikegeorge]

I don't play MP, but from the sound of it, yeah, that sounds like a cheat/exploit. I don't think the saber shield is supposed to go that fast.

 

Of course, people could bitch that the regular dual saber kata is next to useless anyway, but that's gameplay for you, and always a grey area that has the potential to destroy games.

[Zappa_0]

You dont play MP! Your missing the best part of the game! Umm if there using force speed with that making it go faster, I dont think that would be cheating. I actually think its good thinking if your in a big battle and have to do it. This will go back to the Grip/Kick combo, Pull/Saber slash, ect. back in JO. The way I think of it, learn how to counter it and go on with the game. And somebody will always have something to complain about the game.

[Master William]

yeh but teh sk1llz r faek if u ch33t omg wtf lol

no h0n0rz n sk1llz u hav if u r teh whinar and ch33tar

 

omg!!!!11111111111

[SpaceButler14]

I'm of the opinion that any modification that changes the abilities of only one player is a cheat. I also really #$(*&(# hate that move. I always have the bad luck to be looking the other way when someone does it in an ffa. That's a lack of situational awareness for you.

[SpartaZx]

these guys were probably just upping their yawspeed and then doing the move and just pressing +left or +right and you spin alot faster. its not a cheat its just exploiting something in the code that makes it so you're kata hits more. the same thing happened in JO 1.03 with backstab but only the noobs used the yawspeed bs.

[Crow_Nest]

what is the "speed" you are talking about?

[Damabix]

It's not a script, hack, or anything else. It being an exploit is probably debatable.

 

If you have a laser mouse, and the mouse sensitivity turned up you can do it easy enough, maybe even with a ball mouse, but I don't have one to check.

 

I can do it, and can guarantee you I'm not using any kind of script or anything beyond what the devs put into the game. It is cheap, and something that needs to be fixed.

[CastleBravo]

Judging by the poll, it looks like the cheating douche bags showed up to vote.

[BloodRiot]

I'm gonna refer to the usage of scripts and/or hacks that allow player to exploit some non-cheat preotected option in the console only.

 

Personally I think it's the same thing as Athletes using drugs to enhance their performance.

 

In athletic competitions there are set rules about that sort of cheating and they are dealt with accordingly when such offenses are found.

 

In this game however, as far as I know there are no set universal rules and since the option in the console to up the yaw speed is not cheat-protected, I guess it's debatable if it's indeed a cheat or not.

 

However, I dont like it, I wont use it, and If I ever hosted a server I'd make sure it wasn't allowed there.

 

I guess the burden is on the hands and "feet" of admins and the way they view the exploit..or not.

 

So, in my book, this is more of an exploit than a cheat...but is nevertheless cheap...but that's just me.

 

Cheers.

[Darth_Misery]

This is a carry-over from the JK2 days. The yaw-speed tweak. It was popular with red stance horizontal slashes. You could use the tweak to spin around faster than normal to inflict more damage.

 

Now, it's used to "speed up" the saber shield and inflict more damage.

 

For me, it's just another way to rack up more kills for myself. Unless you're completely dense, the saber shield is easy to avoid and easy to counter in a variety of ways. I don't think that a lot of the players who use the yaw tweak with the saber shield realize what a risk that they take performing this. They're opening themselves up to a set of quick and lethal counters.

 

1.) Blue stance lunge (single or dual saber). This is my personal favorite. Usually, the yaw-speeder will take damage when he or she enters a fray to execute the move. Counter: position outside the saber shield and wait for the sabers to move inward. Execute the lunge for a clean, worry-free and devastating hit. If they've taken some marginal damage, the lunge will usually result in an instant kill.

 

2.) Red stance vertical strike (single saber). Again, wait for the sabers to to move inward and come down on their head with a red strike. Usually results in the severing of their head.

 

3.) Rolling stab (any weapon type). Be careful on the timing. Again, nasty damage or death.

 

One thing to NEVER use to counter this is a kata or a butterfly. Might inflict some damage or even cause death but chances are that you will die instead.

 

Let these idiots use this move and yaw-speed tweak as much as they want as far as I'm concerned. More kills for me!

[Iblis Reborn]

i have no problem with it

no i dont use it but thats probably just cause i use the staff

the move isnt too effective without it so i say go ahead and use it

i can usually kill the person doing it no problem but i do get caught unaware while fighting others sometimes (same as with the butterfly and the dfa and the rolling stab)

the only thing that bugs me about it is that it looks stupid

[FK | unnamed]

merry x-mas, now you can all do it so it's not a cheat.

 

 

set spinmove "vstr spin"

set spin "seta cl_yawspeed 6000;+left;say weee look at me!; set spinmove vstr normal"

set normal "seta cl_yawspeed 140;-left; set spinmove vstr spin"

 

bind X vstr spinmove

 

 

besides, like the dude said, just wait it out then roll+stab the guy doing this ^

 

it's easy as hell to kill them.

[Luc Solar]

I think it's kinda irrelevant whether or not something is "cheating" or "an exploit". That's semantics.

 

Most of us agree that using yaw-speed sucks. It's something that was "not meant to be". I can't understand why Raven (the same guys who patched out the yawspeed-spinning in JO 1.03) screwed up again with JA.

 

Is it in the game? Yes. So was the reconnecting bug in JO.

 

Can everyone use it? Yes. Everyone can also hack to the FBI database if they simply learn how to.

 

Is it possible to counter? Yes. This would be as irrelevant as being able to counter some newbie using an aimbot. Is using an aimbot ok, because you can counter it?

 

I'm waiting for the yawspeed grip. That would be cool, huh? Perhaps with a few changes in direction at such insane speed that the opponent could not even see what happens with his screen spinning so fast? Or how about (while admining) binding a key to saberdamagescale 3 and pressing it each time just before you execute the pull-throw? That would be fair too...I mean - the opponent gets x3 damage too, right? (Naturally, you'd set the damage at 1/10 every time you feel like you're about to get hit.)

 

Feel free to use these ideas to make our community a better place for everyone.

[GunShark]

I class it as a cheat full stop, no other way to consider it. If i had a public server running i wouldn't think twice about kicking anyone using this cheat/exploit.

[Shenku_Risato]

*looks at poll results*

 

19 people that go here use the cheap exploit

[FK | unnamed]

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is.

 

I use a mouse sensitivity of 50 along with an optical mouse and I can spin damn near as fast as the script I just posted.

 

And really, it is not that damn hard to counter.

 

The "start up time" for that move is looooooooooonnngg.

 

 

If you see a guy crouch and stick his arms out like he's pretending to be a bird, move your ass out of the way.

 

You have approximately 2 full seconds before all hell breaks loose, that is more than enough ample time to get away.

 

Now granted, I must admit I am pleased to see a lot of players on pubs FINALLY catching on to just how useful Rage can be in a MP saber only game.

 

It's quite effective when playing on a fast regen server when combined with drain and this particular spin move.

 

 

But by no means unbeatable.

 

 

 

Honestly, when I Rage+spin the only people I usually take out are the "RAGGGGGHHH" mouse1 button mashers who like to "hump on you" while holding down the attack key.

 

The smart people just step back and wait for me to come out of rage (roll+stab does not kill a level 3 rager).

[traj]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

Honestly I don't see what the big deal is.

 

I use a mouse sensitivity of 50 along with an optical mouse and I can spin damn near as fast as the script I just posted.

 

And really, it is not that damn hard to counter.

 

The "start up time" for that move is looooooooooonnngg.

 

 

If you see a guy crouch and stick his arms out like he's pretending to be a bird, move your ass out of the way.

 

You have approximately 2 full seconds before all hell breaks loose, that is more than enough ample time to get away.

 

Now granted, I must admit I am pleased to see a lot of players on pubs FINALLY catching on to just how useful Rage can be in a MP saber only game.

 

It's quite effective when playing on a fast regen server when combined with drain and this particular spin move.

 

 

But by no means unbeatable.

 

 

 

Honestly, when I Rage+spin the only people I usually take out are the "RAGGGGGHHH" mouse1 button mashers who like to "hump on you" while holding down the attack key.

 

The smart people just step back and wait for me to come out of rage (roll+stab does not kill a level 3 rager).

 

Are you on some kind of crusade to unnoob the noobs?

[Mex]

This move isnt really an exploit, all you have to do is put your mouse sensitivity up to max and spin like theres no problem and you got yourself about 5 kills if you're in the center of a fight.

 

But theres a simple way to avoid this. : Move out of the damn way if it annoys you so much.

[Master William]

you can't always move out of the way in a big massive saber fest.

It is cheating, no matter what kind it is, script, commands, whatever. In Battlefield 1942, there are servers who force you to use the cockpit, it cannot be removed.

 

However, certain people download cockpits that are nothing but empty, so they gain advantage - therefore cheating!

 

I told some people do to this once on another forum, and one of the mods locked it and said ''this is outrageous! you are telling people to cheat, this is almost enough for a ban!''

[GunShark]

Not sure but i think some people are not understanding the move, It wasn't spinning on the spot it was (with duel sabers) using the saber defence move where you standstill hit fire then altfire very quick and the blades spin about you in a protective barrier and what some people are doing is making the blades spin much faster than this force using move is set at by defualt.

All i can say is people who try to get advantages in this way are not worth playing against, Cheating bastards are ruining almost every MP capable game out there and it gets right on my tits. The way i see it is if you've got to resort to cheating in MP to try and win because you cant be arsed to learn how to play and to practice then the game isn't for you and you should try knitting, darning, playing with yourself or something else.

 

If i aint understanding some of the comments made so far i do apologise.

[Luc Solar]

Not that anyone cares, but IMHO:

 

Playing with a highly sensitive mouse = perfectly ok.

 

Using your highly sensitive mouse to spin around like crazy = perfectly ok, but making this possible in the first place is a mistake made by Raven (who obviously did not learn anything from 1.03).

 

Yawspeed-scripting & scripting special moves and combos = bleah. Do it yourself.