Master_Keralys Posted October 15, 2003 Author Share Posted October 15, 2003 On topic, please? It would actually be a more balanced game, IMO. No throwing reborn off of cliffs with ease. It would also be something new. In the past it's always been Jedi v. Sith. Don't get me wrong, I love that part, it's what makes Star Wars so cool. But having something different would aslo be cool. That's one of the neat things about KOTOR, is that it's the same universe, but you're not killing stormies, and everything's just a little bit different. Something similar could work for the NJO. Or, who knows, maybe they could do a Galaxies game for that! J/k. Seriously, though, I think a JK type game would be interesting. And who says you can't start off with full force? Start as Kyle and develop newer, deeper skills, or something. That'd make everyone happy, it'd really be JK3 then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I thought that the new Jedi Order was what Luke founded after Return of the Jedi. In which case, all the Jedi Knight games have been set during that time. If you mean a JK game based on those books, where they fight those weird Klingon wannabes, the Yahsagasa Vong, then no. That's pretty much the worst idea ever. A fighter sim based on that storyline might work, but not a Jedi Knight game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Arthur C. Clarke said in 2010: A second Oddysey that the events depicted could be thought of not neccisarily as a sequel, but could also be thought of as events in a different Universe or such. This is how I choose to view the entire NJO storyline - it may happen in one possible set of circumstances, but thats just one dimension..... Makes me feel better Anyway, as you can see Keralys, making a mod of such a kind would have a massive polarised response, you'd have a load of people that would hate it and a load that would love it as an idea. On a purely technical point of view - it would be a massive leap as you'd need a tonne of new models, skins and such - wheras most mods can re-use a good deal of what is already in JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 Originally posted by Kengo This is how I choose to view the entire NJO storyline - it may happen in one possible set of circumstances, but thats just one dimension..... Makes me feel better I just crack open a case of beer, and eventually I forget the NJO exists. That makes me feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pnut_Man Posted October 15, 2003 Share Posted October 15, 2003 I am curious though, what do fans expect to see in the next Jedi Knight Sequel? The Dark Jedi Groupee has been used- Dark Forces II Jedi turning to the darkside and going back to the light- Mysteries of the Sith Jedi returning to the force, fighting huge dark jedi group- Jedi Outcast Jedi Academy fighting huge dark jedi group- Jedi Academy Jedi Academy fighting even larger dark jedi group- Jedi Knight 3- NO..Just no... I'm not too sure what the Jedi should be fighting, besides the Yuuzhan Vong. You may say they're some crazy star trek ripoff, but from reading the 'good novels' in the njo, i've firmly held the belief that the Yuuzhan Vong are the deadliest things ever to invade the galaxy. If you want to talk about ripoffs, then refer to the most recent Star Trek Movie, now that's a Yuuzhan Vong ripoff if you ask me. Fighting against Yuuzhan Vong, creating strategy to overcome amphistaffs, thud bugs, finding and utilizing weak spots on the Crab armor; sounds like a solid game to me. Not to mention the True Natures of the force glimpsed in Traitor, Dark Jedi, Light Jedi, or a Vergereism Force User Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Personally, I don't see why a Star Wars Jedi based FPS has to be set post ROTJ. Why not one around the prequel times? Or around the time of KotOR? Or how about one, without Jedi? I was thinking, a cool storyline for a fps game, would be set far back in the SW timelines, when the Sith empire had no contact with the Republic for some time: maybe a story of some clan chief or local boss man, getting killed by a rival clan chief, and the young player character seeks revenge, becomes stronger in the darkside, and eventually rises enough to make a play for the throne of the Dark Lord of the Sith. I mean, there are plenty of stories you could do that doesn't involve the fate of the galaxy. Like, I don't consider DF2: Jedi Knight to be about saving the galaxy - I mean of course Jerec would cause some **** if he wasn't stopped - but the story was more about Kyle Katarn himself, and his personal quest. Maybe more small scale stories about an individual's personal quest? Being a small scale, you can fit it anywhere and not have many continuity problems as well - between the movies, and most EU material, there are plenty of gaps where small stories can fit in on their own. To reiterate my argument from my first post; which has nothing to do with my opinion of the NJO series, but a logical hurdle I can see with the making (and marketing) of an NJO game: "Whereas, a game based on the NJO series, would for one: need to be relative to that book series, which not everyone can relate to; and it would limit the storyline of the game - it would force it into continuity within that series of books." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterofmayhem Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Well, looks like it got a bit off the track up there. I still say it would be a cool idea. I like the idea of some different enimies for starters. The fighting against reborn etc is getting a bit old. Also, why can't the game have it's own little sub stories that take place during the whole NJO time period? It doesn't have to follow everything that happened in the books. If i remember correctly, there may even be some sort of reference to Kyle Katarn in those books??? It would be something new! Not the same old boring stormtroopers and reborn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire13 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Oh how about setting it at the time of the Episode II, where you get sent on missions to prevent unrest throughout the galaxy. Then in the final mission, you get to fight as one of the Jedi on Genosis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kengo Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Prime I just crack open a case of beer, and eventually I forget the NJO exists. That makes me feel better The NJO has driven Prime to drink...see what it does to people? Good point there Pnut_Master, I think its fair to say they could do with something a little more original for a future JK series game if indeed there was one. Everyone seems to love the way KOTOR took things to a time no one else had used, whilst setting it in a recognisable Universe. That would be a good one to try. All the games actually set in the SW original trilogy that I can think of were like on the old consoles such as the SNES and stuff and ...well they were amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Pnut_Master I am curious though, what do fans expect to see in the next Jedi Knight Sequel? The Dark Jedi Groupee has been used- Dark Forces II Jedi turning to the darkside and going back to the light- Mysteries of the Sith Jedi returning to the force, fighting huge dark jedi group- Jedi Outcast Jedi Academy fighting huge dark jedi group- Jedi Academy Jedi Academy fighting even larger dark jedi group- Jedi Knight 3- NO..Just no... I agree with what you are saying. To reuse the 'Cultist' and 'Reborn' angle yet again would simply be a cop-out, and very unoriginal. And I don't think everyone here is saying 'Don't make an NJO game at all'. If the NJO is as popular as you say, then fine, they should make a game about it. But it doesn't really have to be a part of the Jedi Knight series. It could use similar concepts, to be sure, but it could still form part of a completely new series focused around those novels. As others have stated...there's no reason why the next Jedi Knight game can't be set in an entirely different time period. Personally, I don't even think there should be a 'Jedi Knight III'. The numbers are now becoming meaningless, IMHO. I think they've made the right move my dropping the number from Jedi Academy. As far as I'm concerned, Kyle's story has been told, and it's time to move on. Rather than simply have another Jedi Academy game, where you become yet another student fighting Dark Jedi...it needs to now step beyond it's bounds, and venture further afield. Taking up on what idontlikegeorge said, the next game in this series really needs to refocus on characterisation. Jaden Korr was basically a cardboard cut-out with no depth whatsoever, and that, in my view, was a major mistake. People followed Kyle's exploits because they grew interested in the character, the decisions he had to make...and find out where his story would end. Well, I did anyway. I want to see another strong character come into the limelight, with a history, some emotional baggage, and a personal quest to fulfill that ties into the narrative of the current story. And that can be done in any number of ways, and in any time period. I personally like the Jedi Knight style, where your character has no formal training in the Force, but is nevertheless able to use the Force. Someone who has a different life, different concerns, who is suddenly thrust into a dangerous situation and has to use powers they do not fully understand to help them through. Maybe they stumble across an old lightsaber and realise they can use it. Personally, I'd like to see a lot more stealth and exploration in such a game. Someone who's being oppressed, and has to fight to free his/her own people from tyranny, perhaps. Basically, the story does not have to tie-in to the main characters in the SW universe. There are other tales, and other heroes, and other events that transpired on other worlds, while Luke and Co. were fighting the Empire on Hoth and Endor. I wish they would expand on more of the other planets and systems mentioned in the movies and EU. Not just a fleeting visit. I mean, how much of Corellia did we really see? Just a tram. How much of Ord Mantell? A small uninhabited corner... Let's have an epic battle elsewhere in the universe, with a mixture of all the different races we've come to know. I'm tired of seeing Grans, Trandoshans and Rodians as stock villains. By the same token, I'd be disappointed to see the next game feature the Vong. One thing is certain...they need to shed the stale trappings of the past and widen the potential, or I'd rather not see another game in the series at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Prime Stated I just crack open a case of beer, and eventually I forget the NJO exists. Poor NJO, always getting knocked about, even by the mighty Prime ! But, apart form the books/rpg side of things, the NJO hasnt flooded over into any other media, not comics, not (video)games, I cant figure out why LFL would do this...... Can you remember how many games TPM had released with it !!! 90% of them crap, except (pod)Racer, which was old skool racing fun SW style..... MTFBWYA *goes back to reading 'The Final Prophecy'...Tahiri ! You GO girl* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 But, apart form the books/rpg side of things, the NJO hasnt flooded over into any other media, not comics, not (video)games, I cant figure out why LFL would do this...... Can you remember how many games TPM had released with it !!! 90% of them crap, except (pod)Racer, which was old skool racing fun SW style..... Yeah, but the marked difference there is that TPM was a movie made by GL himself. There were bound to be games to tie-in to the movie, no matter how bad they were. NJO is just a part of the EU, and not popular with everyone. It's probably taken Raven some effort simply to get a lot of the EU content into Jedi Academy as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by idontlikegeorge I mean, there are plenty of stories you could do that doesn't involve the fate of the galaxy. Maybe more small scale stories about an individual's personal quest? Being a small scale, you can fit it anywhere and not have many continuity problems as well - between the movies, and most EU material, there are plenty of gaps where small stories can fit in on their own. I agree completely. Just because a story is grand in scale doesn't garruntee that it is good, and small scale doesn't make it bad. Stories that deal with one planet or one small area of the galaxy can be just as interesting, and give a lot more freedom. One thing I loved about the Dark Forces story was that it tied into the movies but was rather small scale. Originally posted by Kengo Everyone seems to love the way KOTOR took things to a time no one else had used, whilst setting it in a recognisable Universe. The big difference between a game like KOTOR and an NJO game is that all the elements in KOTOR have a direct connection to the movies. Even though the droids, ships, Sith, and so on are all different styles, they have for the most part a counterpart from the movies. Many NJO concepts and enemies have no connection to the movies, and an in some cases conflict with movie canon. For the casual fan, the jump to KOTOR is much smaller than the jump to the NJO would be. Originally posted by StormHammer But it doesn't really have to be a part of the Jedi Knight series. If the story isn't going to be about Kyle Katarn (either directly or indirectly), I don't think it should be a part of the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series at all. Jedi Knight is about Katarn and his legacy. If a game is going to take place in a different era with different characters, it should be under a new series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 Too divisive, perhaps. However, I think some game in the time needs to happen; it has the potential to be a great field. Maybe an RPG or something would work better. Or maybe, a Jedi Knight type game, just not under the title. I also think an "x-wing" style sim in that era would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Originally posted by Prime If the story isn't going to be about Kyle Katarn (either directly or indirectly), I don't think it should be a part of the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series at all. Jedi Knight is about Katarn and his legacy. If a game is going to take place in a different era with different characters, it should be under a new series. Then perhaps it is time to make another series, because I really had a sense of closure to Kyle's story in Jedi Academy. To continue Kyle's story in any way would really require you to have access to the full range of Force powers he displayed in Jedi Academy. He is a Jedi Master - and there is not a great deal that he would not be able to handle with ease. That has always been the problem inherent with the series - making the character too powerful to begin with. Frankly, it would be rubbish if they reduced his powers yet again - and I have a feeling a game where you have full access to all of his powers from the very beginning would require the gameplay to be extremely challenging from the very start. I'm not saying it would be impossible to make such a game...but it would certainly require a great deal more creativity to realise appropriate challenges, and it would most likely alienate any new players because it would necessarily require prior knowledge in the use of Force powers and saber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remirol Nacnud Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I haven't read the books btw, so this is just my first impressions. The Vong seem a desperate attempt to keep the characters busy. Well, once they've pretty much conquered the galaxy, what is there left? Once all of the Emperor storylines etc are finished with(as I understand it, the remnant is fading in the NJO) so you have to bring an enemy in from another galaxy. It just gives me the feeling of a childs fantasy. OK, SW is a fantasy story, but it's great because of both the detail of this whole new galaxy in our minds, and the basic storylines(good vs evil) that are shown within it. But when you continue on to the vong.....it seems more like a kid having a fantasy. "and this happened, and then this happens, then this happens" I'm not sure if you'll understand what I mean, but I hope you do. And yes, being a Jedi where the force and your sabre aren't useful would be pretty boring. But as I understand it the story ends up with Luke travelling to other galaxies to discover a way to defeat the Vong(is that correct?) So perhaps there could be a little something about him discovering a new attunement to the force....or something. Just to take away the "they don't exist in the force" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Originally posted by Remirol Nacnud The Vong seem a desperate attempt to keep the characters busy. Well, once they've pretty much conquered the galaxy, what is there left? Once all of the Emperor storylines etc are finished with(as I understand it, the remnant is fading in the NJO) so you have to bring an enemy in from another galaxy. Yeah, I agree completely. They couldn't end it when they finally finished beating the dead horse that was the evil Empire. Couldn't let the characters have only the problems of stabilizing and restructuring a Galactic Civilization (that's too easy), so gotta bring in the next horde of super-villain armies to put the fate of the galaxy in jeopardy! ...again. Yeah, it's boring having the same ol' Dark Side adepts/etc. making a play for Galactic Dominance, but the Vong are different! Instead of the Dark Side, they exist outside the Force, and instead of technology, they use specially-evolved organisms and other organics! Wow! Hmm. Maybe if the New Republic was called the Terrans, and the Jedi Order called the Protoss, it would all fit like a glove! In any case, the whole galaxy-in-jeopardy situation is just as old as any plot lines anyone else is bored with. What makes the Zerg (oops, I mean Vong) different, is all on the surface, and not within their use in the flow of the storylines. Not to say the Vong isn't interesting in and of itself, or certain characters/character stories aren't interesting in the NJO era, I don't think it, as a whole, really fits, or was even needed, in the Star Wars EU storyline flow. And, more to the topic, it's not that a NJO game wouldn't be fun, I'd probably play it if it was a good game, despite my disliking of the whole NJO line... But don't expect it to just happen, game developers need good markets for such things, you know? It's all about money. And besides, they don't make games FOR YOU. You have to make your ideal game - So in the meantime, look at community-made mods to get any NJO-game fix you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 Fitting in with the rest of the NJO wouldn't be that big of a deal. Nor would not reading the books have to be important. While there are certainly some distinct differences between the two, how much different would this be than the Clone Wars games having continuity with the book and comic series? Now, before you all start yelling there are distinct differences. Namely, that picks up right after the movies and everyone knows all the characters and everything. That's great. It still introduced a lot of new content and ideas, especially for just casual fans. It did fine. Likewise, the NJO game (regardless of whether its under the JK title or not, you should be a Jedi) could slowly introduce new content and ideas to a fairly familiar universe. You could actually start out doing basic Jedi work in the galaxy with the Empire not a problem, and then move on to the Vong coming in and all that. A slow introduction would solve most of the problems you guys have complained about. And you guys are right about closing the series. Kyle's done, his story has been told. (Though I do want a book on him in the EU beyond the novelizations of the games:D ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Master_Keralys A slow introduction would solve most of the problems you guys have complained about. But it doesn't solve the biggest problem where a large percentage of the Star Wars fan population is anti-NJO. Intorducing them slowly or otherwise is not going to solve this. And unless this is changed, it is less feasible for Lucasarts to make an NJO game instead of an game based in the traditional eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 True. Although I've had my complaints about certain parts of the NJO, I've never understood the hatred that people have for it. Perhaps it's because they have been happy with the secure, comfortable universe where everything ended up the same at the end as in the beginning. Now, though, people are at risk, as is the future; I think that many SW fans dislike that. But I love it; it makes the series more real in my opinion. It's also possible that a game would actually help people to like the NJO better, by giving them another perspective on it. Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Keralys Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Bump! Bump bump bump!!!!!! Don't let good threads die! Given that the NJO is now finished (and don't post spoilers on that!), it might actually be good tactics for LEC to make a game. It would get people to pick up the series that haven't read it and it would sell well regardless of the era. Especially if it wasn't advertised as an NJO game. Why not just a game in that era? It's not like all Jedi ever do is fight Yuuzhan Vong... there's still plenty of regular missions to do, and the political intrigue would make for an excellent situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiberator34 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I don't know what people have against NJO but I just finished reading the Unifying force(the last book in the series) and I have to say a game based in that time period would be awesome. And I think you could play Klye Katarn because the Vong themselves aren't affected by the force, so being a Jedi master might be something of a good thing. Also there are enemies like the Peace Brigade(humans who are vong lackies) and the Vong's slave thrails(who would be harder to affect with the force but not impossible). What the game would require of players is less of an attitude of "Kill em all!" and more of an attitude of "How do I survive and fulfill my mission?" Personally I think its rediculous how in the Jedi Knight games you end up personally killing EVERY storm trooper, criminal, and dark jedi in a level. The higher challenge would make players THINK and maybe stealth would become more of an important factor too. All good points for a potential NJO game. Also powers like telekinesis could still prove advantagious to Jedi( a vong can still hurt when you hit him with a big rock ya know) On a separate note, the reason SOME of the NJO books are bad is because the authors have such different writing styles and differnent goals when they write these books. Collaboration can only go so far when you've got that many different people writing for the same overall story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodstevens Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 the NJO story is anti star wars... Why.... the force is irrelivant.... big time dumb.. star wars is about the jedi and force. good and evil light and dark. the force is every where (yoda said that one...) force binds every thing together... plus the vong... i dont care what explination is given its just not star wars with the vong more like trek.. Having something that doesn't exist in the force is wrong to the star wars mythos and still a jedi able to move faster than perception can cut any vong down to size...even if this hairbrain i dont believe in the force so it don exist is BS.. read "heir to the empire" or some other good start wars books but not NJO its just not star wars. the force tells/guides the jedi and helps the reaction to action. with out the force it a jedi would be useless and star wars useless. please no more of this Vong BS, its dumb and doesn't fit into star wars. The force exists in all life thats just the way it is in the star wars mythos..doesn't matter what galaxy they are from the force is every where so again this vong thing is big time dumb organic weapons ... cool big ugly weirdos... cool Force absent...HUH? not possible in the star wars mythos... repeat after me not possible is star wars.... the NJO is over just forget it happened ... I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by bodstevens the NJO story is anti star wars... Why.... the force is irrelivant.... big time dumb.. star wars is about the jedi and force. good and evil light and dark. the force is every where (yoda said that one...) force binds every thing together... plus the vong... i dont care what explination is given its just not star wars with the vong more like trek.. Having something that doesn't exist in the force is wrong to the star wars mythos and still a jedi able to move faster than perception can cut any vong down to size...even if this hairbrain i dont believe in the force so it don exist is BS.. read "heir to the empire" or some other good start wars books but not NJO its just not star wars. the force tells/guides the jedi and helps the reaction to action. with out the force it a jedi would be useless and star wars useless. please no more of this Vong BS, its dumb and doesn't fit into star wars. The force exists in all life thats just the way it is in the star wars mythos..doesn't matter what galaxy they are from the force is every where so again this vong thing is big time dumb organic weapons ... cool big ugly weirdos... cool Force absent...HUH? not possible in the star wars mythos... repeat after me not possible is star wars.... the NJO is over just forget it happened ... I did I say you should only knock the NJO if you know enough about it to knock it ! Zonama Sekot(a planet) is very alive in the force. The Vong are very closely linked to Zonama Sekot. This is what the whole NJO series is about, and what the final book "THE UNIFYING FORCE" aims to illustrate... I cant wait to finish it ... To each their own, nonetheless MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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