Prime Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by g//plaZma lol everyone's jumping on the Spider Al bandwagon headed for the land where 3 months is the minimum for a non pre-mature patch. The patching Al was refering to was for gameplay alterations. These issues are actual bugs, such as the MP server browser issue. These should be fixed as soon as possible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceButler14 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Yeah, balance change or no balance change, I don't care too much, assuming the only way to saber someone isn't flip-kicking them with a saber taped to your boot. But, I've already sent my complaint to LA about the game-killing bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Something i posted in a different thread: Umm.. been thinking... do we "deserve" a patch. Think about it, id like one, but think about how many people have acted. Raven is probably sick of hearing are complaints, back when they did talk to us about what was happening was when half the community was complaining about it. Look at JKII, it split, half of the community like the "honor code" and the other half didnt, which made Raven have to choose sides for JA (which isnt easy, because they knew whoever didnt get all the stuff they wanted would complain) the proof is in the forums think about JKII, half the community wanted a patch, Raven took there ideas, then made the patch based on what the community wanted, then the communty didnt like it, and basically spat in Raven's face. Remember, they arent paid to make a patch (or... we arent paying for it) The patch shouldnt bother with all this crap... Heres what i suggest: Fix the ATI card problems Fix the server bug Fix the skin bug Fix the CD bug (you know for people who couldnt play, because the system wouldnt accept Disk 1, because of LA's CD security thing) And any other bugs... If all they do is fix the bugs, who can complain? In fact, i bet they would get thanked by the people experiencing these errors! The rest of the people, can go get a refund. Why do they release modding/mapping/scripting tools? So if you dont like something, you change it, and quit complaining! Id like other stuff, but someone else doesnt like what i like, and in the end, the game dies and no one plays it because we are all being selfish, and quit the game when we dont get what we want! Not all people, just some people. Discuss?? ok, onto talking about what this thread... Razorace... dont worry about it. Im sorry you cant mod right now, and i know you must be anxious to get your open jedi project up and running with some coding, but please try and have patience. - The ingame browser is broken. Only about 15-30 of the 500+ JKA servers are showing for ANYONE. I don't even get ANY servers unless I toggle the server game filter from All to Jedi Academy and back whenever I refresh my server list. When servers (that honest people like myself pay for) aren't seen by the majority of the game's players, the server admins will eventually admit defeat and shut down their servers. Thats definatly acceptable, and i agree completly. Like i said in my quoted statment at the top, this and the ati bug, and the cd bug need to be fixed. But im sure the reason for the CD bug is because of the leak in JA, and copied CDs. Remember, JKII SP was downloadable (no, i didnt DL it mods, please excuse this, but im trying to get a point accross! I havnt seen the files, ive only heard about it). Thats why only the SP part of JA has this weird CD thing happen when you try to load it, before the console. It was because they lost money on JKII SP! That understandable, but its not fair to the people who have the error and bought the CD. That should get fixed as well as the MP Server bug, which i think is also a result of LA trying not lose money on the leaked beta. People, whats the point of a business, any business, including Raven, LucasArts, Activision, etc... ? To make money. They must have lost a gigantic sum of money, on jk2 SP cracks, which made it downloadable, and the leaked JA beta. I can understand why they wouldnt want the source code and stuff released. Whos ganna quit buying? - Several game features cause an unreasonable amount of slowdown vs. Jedi Knight 2. Joystick Force feedback is turned on by default and causes a significant frames per second (fps) drop. Dynamic Glow also causes a similar drop. Thats an issue, but you could turn it off. The easiest way for raven to patch that is to take it out the menu **HINT HINT RAVEN** Secondly, there's the issue of no SDK or any real modding documentation. That depends on what your talking about. They did give us siege documentation, and something about models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Razorace... dont worry about it. Im sorry you cant mod right now, and i know you must be anxious to get your open jedi project up and running with some coding, but please try and have patience. I've waited patiently for over a month and we've gotten little to nothing. Many other recent titles have received more support in a smaller time period than we have. Since we have payed equally for the same sort of product, it's not unreasonable to get a similar level of support. It's much more honest and fair to be open about my displeasure instead of just quietly quit buying Raven/LucasArts games and taking my money elsewhere. Besides, I'd much rather get satisfaction with Raven/LucasArts than have to deal with boycotting them. Thats an issue, but you could turn it off. The easiest way for raven to patch that is to take it out the menu **HINT HINT RAVEN** While you can turn off the dynamic glow, you also lose some of the better eye candy in the game. Since similar games have glow options that work perfectly (Tron 2.0), it's not unreasonable for Raven to patch the thing so it doesn't cause major fps drops on most people's systems. As for force feedback slowdown, they need to either turn it off by default in a patch or make a official statement that it's the source of a lot of many peoples' game slowdowns. Right now, a lot of people have been felt hanging with no information on why their game is running slower than JK2. That depends on what your talking about. They did give us siege documentation, and something about models. To be fair, that is true. But the stuff they have given us is fairly minimalistic (A lot of it was just old stuff from JK2) and only really relivent to mappers and modellers. As a codder, I'm totally stuck until we get the SDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeskywalker1 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 While you can turn off the dynamic glow, you also lose some of the better eye candy in the game. Since similar games have glow options that work perfectly (Tron 2.0), it's not unreasonable for Raven to patch the thing so it doesn't cause major fps drops on most people's systems. I know its cool, but we can live without it.. heh, the game is made on an ageing system, and the graphics are still good enough to compete with games out now, when they are turned on medium. To be fair, that is true. But the stuff they have given us is fairly minimalistic (A lot of it was just old stuff from JK2) and only really relivent to mappers and modellers. As a codder, I'm totally stuck until we get the SDK. Well, they never really released any documentation for jk2, just the code. At least, not any that i know of. I can understand your ready to get your mods up and running. But think about it like this, your not ganna lose any time because no one else can code right now either. So theres really no competition yet, except for those annoying admin mods, that dont really contribute anything to the game anyways. Right now, you have time to plan your mod out, or if you have it all planned out, do some advertising, which i have seen you have some threads on BTW, and it look like an interesting project. I look forward to seeing and possibly contributing to it if i can. Do you accept maps? If so what kind would you accept? Maybe make a map pack from some really good mappers (my detail needs some work, but whos perfect right?) the community is crying for siege maps, I plan on taking that up after Christmas. It will come out.. the question is when? Now wouldnt this look dumb if LA told raven that they could release this stuff tommorrow? Maybe there are still collecting data on the bugs, or perhaps they are harder to fix than it seems. I think it would be nice to get some feedback from raven, at least on the how far they have gotten on the editing stuff, or the patch. Heres what ive learned from experience as a mapper/scripter: never give yourself a deadline. Too many times have a I said im almost done give me another week (to a clan) and then im still working a month later, because right after i say that the whole thing screws up. I guess i shouldnt make excuses for Raven/LucasArts though... because I dont know what they are doing. And it isnt fair that LA has done this or that, for legal issues. But then again, these are just rumors. How do we know its because of these things? We dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy867 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Well, with my 2 cents, it may as well seem like more. The problem people have nowadays is that EVERYTHING MUST BE released now, not later. But Star Wars Galaxies is a PRIME example of what happens once the suits rush things, you release a buggy game that no one likes. And yes, Raven is aware of the in-game browser. SO WHO CARES? Its not like they can do anything when their hands are tied with LucasArts, who recently have gone through a company shake-up when their President resigned without any warning, or without any reason. So right now, the company has much BIGGER things to worry about than one game, like what is in store with the future of the company and how things will be handled. So until the issues with LA gets resolved, and with the release of the X-Box version next month, we may as well expect a patch next month, since economically speaking, it'd be easier to release the X-Box version simuntaneously with the patch. Raven is definitely trying to offer what support they can. They've already got the dedicated server files out, included a patched version for Linux users, and they've released the mapping tools, and I am sure they are working on getting the SDK ready, so that once LucasArts gets their stuff situated, they will then be able to focus on Raven and give they ok which will allow for a SPEEDY release. When i say speedy, itd be much faster to have Raven be working on it now so that they can release it when LucasArts says so, as opposed to waiting for Lucasarts and then working on it. So from my point of view, I just enjoy using the All-seeing eye since I never really relied on the in-game browsers, even for Outcast. I figure taking away the game engine will allow for better support and reliability. Only thing I think I need is for an option for my dedicated server to detect if my server connection is lost and try to re-launch itself if it is down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Tsaya If you weren't so fast flaming every post and trying to offend everyone you might notice that I quoted the expression "immediate patch" and was merely answering to razorrace. But posting answers instead of flames is a concept you don't understand, isn't it? since when is saying earth to someone a flame? thats not really a concept you understand, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 LA pretty much got out of the first party development scene because, quite frankly, their in-house team simply could not compete with the aggressive and innovative software development that was being done by other companies and teams at the time. Now while I agree it was a smart move to have these third party teams like Raven develop their games, they should have taken a look around the software industry and observed how the most successful companies (id, blizzard, and valve) were constantly patching, communicating and supporting the products they sold. If I'm supposed to somehow feel sorry for LA because the company is in turmoil, well call me cold, but I don't feel the least bit sorry for them. It's the classic case of a big, out of touch, corporate giant not having the slightest clue about what the people buying their products want, and more importantly, being so arrogant that they feel that the name attached the product will generate enough revenue on it's own to justify a lack of quality control. They put themselves in this position by having their collective heads up their colons and not paying attention to the changes and shifts in software industry. Eight or nine years ago, you had limited choices in the way of computer games, but now the market is flooded with them. Before you could rely on the "what else are they going to buy?" attitude, but now if a company does give their customer base what they want, those people can and will take their money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 But think about it like this, your not ganna lose any time because no one else can code right now either. So theres really no competition yet, except for those annoying admin mods, that dont really contribute anything to the game anyways. I'm not concerned about the "competition", I'm worried about getting my money's worth and the community as a whole. If Raven/LucasArts had been up front and honest about this slow support cycle, I could have simply waited three months and gotten the game on discount. Right now, you have time to plan your mod out, or if you have it all planned out, do some advertising, which i have seen you have some threads on BTW, and it look like an interesting project. All the plans have been in place for sometime now. We're just waiting for the SDK and for the website and forums to get set up. I look forward to seeing and possibly contributing to it if i can. Do you accept maps? If so what kind would you accept? Maybe make a map pack from some really good mappers (my detail needs some work, but whos perfect right?) the community is crying for siege maps, I plan on taking that up after Christmas. Since maps can basically be downloaded seperately easily and effectively, we have no plans to include maps in the project unless we get something totally mind blowing. The intention of the project is to establish a development platform of materials and not be a "wow, these maps/models/etc are cool!" pack. However, we are including mappers in the project. There's a lot of additional features that could be added for mapper use (additional vehicles/map entities/functions/etc) that we intend to provide a standard for. The idea is to prevent the hassle of having to package every vehicle you use and/or include a unique code mod just to do something fancy for your map. Instead, you can just add your vehicle/map mod to OJP, and instruct everyone to get the lastest OJP release (or compatible mod) to run your map. It makes things easier for everyone and allows unique maps (like the old Saga maps) to be playable with OJP compatible mods (every mod that is based off the OJP code) instead of just with the mapper's custom code. I think it would be nice to get some feedback from raven, at least on the how far they have gotten on the editing stuff, or the patch That's my point. We need something official on the issue. If a patch is honestly going to take a while to create, that's fine. They just have to tell us that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed LA pretty much got out of the first party development scene because, quite frankly, their in-house team simply could not compete with the aggressive and innovative software development that was being done by other companies and teams at the time. I don't really think that was the case. LucasArts was a constant quality developer/publisher up to around 1999. That year Episode 1 came out and suddenly Star Wars was really popular again. I believe the suits came in, scared away all the talent, and then set up shop. LucasArts has suffered ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidala from Chop Shop Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Originally posted by Andy867 Only thing I think I need is for an option for my dedicated server to detect if my server connection is lost and try to re-launch itself if it is down. Hi Andy, this is what I use. It works very well: http://serverdoc.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FK | unnamed Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 What was the last Star Wars game they did 100% in-house (just curious, I can't remember off the top of my head)? I remember even the SNES and the N64 console ports being done 3d party and the last 100% LA PC Star Wars game was the old JK1/MotS if I'm correct. I'm not sure about Force Commander but I know Battle Grounds was built off AoE. Maybe some of the E1 games were done in house, but as I recall they all were developed by 3d party teams. Either way, they have not produced much in-house Star Wars product for quite a few years now. Other companies were (at the time) pushing the envelope and experimenting with new things like open gl and such, but LA has never been a "cutting edge" company as far as the technology went and thus got left behind. I think LA really took for granted that the "star wars" name was all they would ever need to sell games and when companies like id software really started pushing the importance of the technology contributing to the overall experience and other companies followed suit, LA pretty much had to throw in the towel because they had never invested much time in that area. But beyond that, look at it like this for a second (back on topic): LA does not really have much experience in true multiplayer games if you think about it. Granted you had the old X-wing games and such, but when I say “true multiplayer” I’m talking around the time quake world went live and online gaming exploded into basically what it is today. Sure people could LAN and direct connect in those old games, but it really was not until quake 1, and a little later quake world came out that online gaming really took off with the general public. Now that would basically give LA one game and one expansion worth of experience in terms of multiplayer support, before they called it quits. And remember we are talking around the time of quake 1 and quake 2, and although I’m sure many people played Jedi Knight back in the day, the numbers in terms of the size of the community they had to support was much smaller simply due to the fact that the majority of people gaming at that time were playing quake 1/2 and little else. It’s basically the same as today, millions are playing Counter-Strike and thousands are playing JK2/JA. If LA’s only experience in dealing with online gaming was a single game and it’s expansion, and that community was a much smaller sect to begin with, it’s no wonder they seem totally oblivious to their customers wishes. If it just seems like the guy calling the shous @ LA is living in 1996 when it comes to being in touch with the mp gaming world... maybe he still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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