-NGE- Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 completely hypothetical... but assume they were matched up, who would win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain LeChuck Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Vader. He eliminated the Jedi Order. Except for Yoda and Obi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tito Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Vader at his prime vs Malak, no doubt Vader... Vader after 20 years of no saberfighting (ie. as in ANH), probably still Vader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Darth Vader. Hes the single most baddest Sith Lord ever. -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-NGE- Posted January 1, 2004 Author Share Posted January 1, 2004 well technically Vader never got any further than the rank of apprentice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Well, as a light side Jedi he didnt get beyond the rank of Apprentice. But as a dark side Jedi, he became a Jedi Knight. I dont know if he rose above that rank, but hes still cooler than The Emperor. -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 uhm no. very wrong. vader as a light sider was a padawan which is above the rank of apprentice. i think he meant because the emperor, palpatine, was still alive, vade was never actually sith lord. but i don't think this is the case. i think there is a direct reference to him being the dark lord of the sith in the movies. maybe the emperor merely stepped aside from that title to take on his emperor role, and vader did become the dark lord. or maybe lucas just thought the title sounded cool, and had no ideas as to what the sith were at all at the time. but i prefer to think the former and not the latter. and maybe he was attempting to take his son as his won apprentice. either way, vader would kick malak's @ss so hard. the only reason malak was lord of the sith (which tecnically the term darth was not in existnce yet as bain had not destroyed all the sith jedi and decreed there to be only two at a time from henceforth yet) was because he and everyone else mistakingly believed he had killed his master. once veryone knows better you stomp his pathetic @ss all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Originally posted by eidospsogos uhm no. very wrong. vader as a light sider was a padawan which is above the rank of apprentice. Thats what I meant. He never rose above the rank of Padawan. Heh. Anyways, we know that Maul was first referred to be Qui-Gon as a Sith Lord. We also know that Vader always owned Maul, with this information we can only assume that Vader is also a Sith Lord. Right? -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 i think that's how lucas is trying to get us to overlook the incoherence of it all. assumption. don't get me wrong. i LOVE Star Wars. but i am the first to admit when he referred to vader as the lord of the sith, he had no idea what the sith were at the time. he just thought it sounded cool. but yeah i will go with vader as lord of the sith in his time. he may have died doing it, but he overpowered his master. who in my opinion by that time really wasn't so much his master anyway. besides he's called lord vader time and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Originally posted by eidospsogos but yeah i will go with vader as lord of the sith in his time. he may have died doing it, but he overpowered his master. who in my opinion by that time really wasn't so much his master anyway. besides he's called lord vader time and again. Exactly. He died surpassing his Master and that makes him the new Dark Lord. Its a shame he died in the Process, I would like to have seen how it ended when Luke would have become his new Apprentice. . Anyways, your right. -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Drail Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 this poll is easy: vader for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzerian Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Malak does spam lightning and drain alot tho:p it depends on how they fight i never seen vader use any other powers then grip and saberthrow There is no way to tell Malak had the starforge Vader bet luke easy when luke was padawan but when he was a jedi knight vader had the emperor helping him out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 sigh. we cannot use the movies as a direct comparison. the first movies were only the beginning of the development of the ideas of the force, force powers, the sith and the jedi. they really merely introduced these concepts. alot has developed since then, so that force powers available are quite a different matter. vader only used grip and saberthrow because that's all they had though up at the time. (though he did also use push and pull on random objects during his fights with luke) so i guess we will also assume from the movies, that bastila could probably kick the **** out of luke because all he could do was force jump, force pull, mind tricks, and levitate things. while bastila has battle meditation , force armor, master valor, master speed, adv lightsaber throw, force wave etc. you can't make direct comparisons of this nature. alot about vader has been added since the movies, and if you read any of the star wars comic books, or novels, you would know malak is nothing compared to vader. but i thought this could also have been gathered just from his presence in the movies. sure he wasn't all flashy with his powers, like malak, but his presence has always been and always will be one of the most powerful, dark, and ominous of any villian ever. malak would not stand a chance. (after all technically he could not even be called darth;)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Vader. No contest. I didn't even read any of the other posts. Because I know the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somrandomguy Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Vader easily. Which would therefore mean by extension, that Malak got his @ss handed to him by Mandalorians, because Boba Fett fought Vader to a standstill. On a side-note, Vader is a Sith Lord. He has the D20 Star Wars class, and D20 is canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 yes, but it wasn't originally canon. and d20 was a dungeons and dragons ruleset before it was adopted into the star wars roleplaying games. and the star wars rpg system was not thought up or adopted until years after the movies. so yeah we can say vader was a sith lord now. but i still say when the phrase was originally coined, it meant nothing. it just sounded cool. because if there was anything more about the sith mentioned, then it would have stood to reason that the the sith lord was obviously palpatine and vader was his apprentice. however we can ignore the facts and try to rationalize that MAYBE palpatine was so caught up in his emeperor role he just sort of surrendered the title to his apprentice. who had not yet found an apprentice of his own yet. as far as all this concerned, there is alot of canon to be tripping over. but saying that a games' categorization of vader years after he was originally introduced doesn't prove anything. it may be considered canon now. but it's very easy to come out with a category for every thing years after it first came out and say, well regardless of the inconsistencies this is what we meant. after all hindsight is 20/20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 but i think lucas meant for vader to be a sith lord and just didn't know it. that's a good reason. when did vader and fett battle and why? i would like to know how someone who's father was so easily decapitated, could stand toe to toe with the dark lord of the sith. oh one other thing. did anyone notice how even though we came up with a history for the title darth after the original trilogy, the movie almost directly refers to the word darth as vader's new name. a name he assumed after turning to the darkside. for instance, i know of several occasions where obi-wan calls vader darth as though it is his name and not a title. and as titles are meant to be terms of respect, i doubt obi-wan would be using it to honor him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 No question. Vader. Anakin Skywalker was conceived by the midichlorians, he brought Balance to the Force, and was the only one who could kill the powerful sith lord Palpatine..... Malak, is a no neck wannabee bad dude who gets his ass kicked by someone who has lost all their damn memory...... he's an OK game villain, but that's about it...... he'd be unspectacular anywhere else in the EU...... IMO MTFBWYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 so you think he actually fulfilled the prophecy huh? personally i think he failed in that regard. they only said if the prophecy was true anakin would do this. no one said the prophecy was true. unless you consider killing off all the jedi but two, thus making it equal to the two sith, i guess you could call that a bringing a balance of sorts. but personally i was always of the opinion that once again gui-gon was wrong, and anakin was in no way the one chosen to bring balance to the force. but he would still win against malak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedClown Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Vader, about no doubt (maybe Malak could go for a draw, if Vader once again had lost a hand, had to reconstruct his saber and refill his lungs). About the Darth-thing: darth was (afaik) bane's real name. So maybe all Sith after Bane renamed theirselves Darth to honor Bane. The fact that Malak and Revan are called Darth (and on top of that, they still bear their true names, Revan and Malak) is a bit shytty though. And last but not least, my opinion on Vader being the Lord, his power in relation to other Lords and...nuffn, that's all. So: Vader could've been a Sith Lord and still an Apprentice for all Sith (the fallen Jedi) were the Lords of Sith. But I don't think that a Dark Lord can just give his title to someone else. So imo it was a mistake to call Vader the Dark Lord. And Vader (just like Palpatine) could easily have been beaten by good ol' Exar Kun (like Suvam says: Kun was way more powerful than all Lords after him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-NGE- Posted January 3, 2004 Author Share Posted January 3, 2004 Exar Kun was badass. I was dissapointed there were no special artifacts to be found throughout the game which stood in relation to Kun. Only the mantle of the force and heart of the guardian crystals somewhat, but not what im looking for either. I was really dissapointed when I found out when I couldn't go to the planet Yavin to investigate the ruins. That would have been kickass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by eidospsogos sigh. we cannot use the movies as a direct comparison. the first movies were only the beginning of the development of the ideas of the force, force powers, the sith and the jedi. they really merely introduced these concepts. They may have introduced it all, but Lucas must have had some ideas about who was who and what not. If he didnt how can people have continued working on it? Those who started working on it, must have had something apart from the movies to expand on, if you follow me. alot about vader has been added since the movies, and if you read any of the star wars comic books, or novels, you would know malak is nothing compared to vader. I'm currently reading the Thrawn trilogy novels by Timothy Zahn. Vader is mentioned in them, but he has no actual role in it because hes well, dead. Anyways, still his role in those novels is quite important. All those who read them, know what I'm talking about. What comics/novels you had in mind eidospsogos? but i thought this could also have been gathered just from his presence in the movies. sure he wasn't all flashy with his powers, like malak, but his presence has always been and always will be one of the most powerful, dark, and ominous of any villian ever. malak would not stand a chance. (after all technically he could not even be called darth;)) Well seen point . Exar Kun was badass. I was dissapointed there were no special artifacts to be found throughout the game which stood in relation to Kun. Only the mantle of the force and heart of the guardian crystals somewhat, but not what im looking for either. I was really dissapointed when I found out when I couldn't go to the planet Yavin to investigate the ruins. That would have been kickass... I think I found his armor or something like that when playing yesterday. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure I found something related to Exar Kun. I can check if I found it, and if I did I'll take a screenie, and post -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 yes you find eaxr kun's light battle suit available for purchase on korriban. and no the people that were given rights to write history before and after the movies did not HAVE to be given any more to go one for writing what they wanted to write about vader. after all it was THEIR creative works that created and constructed vader into what he is today. Lucas only hatched the intital concept. i have no idea how much he actually concieved before others took over and came up with vader's history as it stands today. but it wasn't too much i can guarantee that. why do you think Lucas found it so hard to write the prequels, and impossible to write the sequels that were originally planned to follow. he sold away way too many rights, and thus what other authors had written had become canon. so yeah he may have had a LITTLE more figured out than we were given in the movies. but not very much for sure. especially due to the dark lord of the sith comment. why is it so hard for everyone to realize that Lucas is not the end all and be all source for star wars. he came up with the first trilogy, which was really good, and he saw the potential to make money off letting other people develop his original ideas. then 20 years later when i guess that was running dry, he decides to make more movies, but then has to stumble over what he allowed to become canon to get them out. and even has to cancel other planned movies because of the amount of rights he sold away. yes star wars was a greta idea, and yes Lucas did a great job with the frist trilogy. but i can gaurantee that he had nothing anywhere near the idea of what the force has come to be today in mind when he made the movies. and i think that is quite obvious from the sheer lack of force powers, as compared to the amount today, seen in the first three(or last three, however you want to look at it) movies. even if he himself DID come up with it all on his own, coming from someone who has written many an idea for comic books etc(i liked comics when i was kid okay ) it never happens that you have a COMPLETE and TOTAL vision of what you want to do all at once. ideas begin somewhere and they develop over time. regardless of what your FIRST idea may be aspects of it will be changed, and added to the original over the course of time. but to say that hundreds of talented and creative authors had to be given something to go on other than movie material to base their eventual portrayal of vader on is a silly comment. these are authors we are talking about here. if they had to be given something to go on to create an idea they would hardly be an 11th grade english student, let alone authors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Originally posted by eidospsogos and no the people that were given rights to write history before and after the movies did not HAVE to be given any more to go one for writing what they wanted to write about vader. after all it was THEIR creative works that created and constructed vader into what he is today. Lucas only hatched the intital concept. i have no idea how much he actually concieved before others took over and came up with vader's history as it stands today. but it wasn't too much i can guarantee that. why do you think Lucas found it so hard to write the prequels, and impossible to write the sequels that were originally planned to follow. he sold away way too many rights, and thus what other authors had written had become canon. so yeah he may have had a LITTLE more figured out than we were given in the movies. but not very much for sure. especially due to the dark lord of the sith comment. I wasnt referring to Vader in particular. I was referring to the whole Force/Jedi/Sith/Force Powers thing. -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 ahhhh. my apologies. i wonder sometimes how much they were given on that and how much they came up with on their own. there really is no way of knowing to be honest. but i figure they had alot less to work with than people think. i mean they had at least the movies, and whatever else Lucas shared with them about what his vison was at the moment. which i am sure at the time was probably not as extensive as thought. but you could also wonder how many of these people might have been willing to consult with him as they wrote what they did. throw their ideas at him, see if he thought they fit, allowed him to change certain details as he saw fit. really you can never know for sure. it's just that by now probably2/3 opf the SW universe was created by someone other than Lucas. if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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