obi Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior Don't put us all in the same boat as GW PLEASE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiE23 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 I bet all over Al Qaida forums there all saying OWNED* Excuse me for sounding like im on their side (I am not!) but its about time they bombed a train full of people! Airplane: To risky cause of security Boat: Life boats and life preservers, duh! and it cleans its self Bus: Not alot of people and can be cleaned up over the weekend Train: Low security, tons of people, and it takes a few weeks for people to clean up the mess! VIP Killings: well, thats different Bombs in busy malls and stuff: Kind of stupid Any way, Al Qaida is sick and retarded, "Al Qaida! YOU GO TO HELL! YOU GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE! And go **** all of those virgins, and then you will have to raise those kids! MUWAHAHAHA!!!!" TiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie™ Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Tie: That is just sick 1000th post! W00t!!!! erm...sorry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiE23 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by MMMPIE!!! Tie: That is just sick 1000th post! W00t!!!! erm...sorry.... Which part is sick? and happy 1000th post day MMMPIE *hands Spam/1000th post gold medal* TiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie™ Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Tie 23 Which part is sick? You should know, or i'm gonna worry about you... Thanks for the medal though Now let's try to keep this serious, lots of people have died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Tie 23 but its about time they bombed a train full of people! ...WHAT? Your entire analogy and description of the terrorist targets is grossly inappropriate. Perhaps you shouldn't post in these serious threads because you come off more offensive than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiE23 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Guys, this is reallity, there is no way we can get though life without laughing at the stupidity of the human race! "There is theory that suggests mankind cannot resist war because we forget the pain so easily. Such as child birth or how our antcestors who keep hunting animals even after they where trampled or mauled, and extreme pain, and to still continue." Quote from Micheal A. Stackpole and about the "About time they bombed a train...." I am only thinking about what there trying to acomplise (SP) and how they do it... Like I think about how smart it was for the Germans in WWI to use mustard gas, and for how smart it was for the Americans to us a Atomic Bomb on Hirosima in WWII, and the invention of the bomb, the gun, the bullet, the bow and arrow, black powder, and like stuff like that. TiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Tie 23 Guys, this is reallity, there is no way we can get though life without laughing at the stupidity of the human race! There is a difference between laughing at the stupidity of humanity, and belittling the loss of many human lives. There's also a way to show some tact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiE23 Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior There is a difference between laughing at the stupidity of humanity, and belittling the loss of many human lives. There's also a way to show some tact. Fine then... In simple words, WE ARE GOING BLOW ARE SELVES UP! Its all about wether we blow them away first, or they blow us away first. either way its going to happen one day, and that will be that, end of story, end of us! Well, i hope not. Heres a little video about this matter The End Of The World And BTW, sorry for not saying how sad it is about the train *No sarcasm!* TiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Its a sad day for human kind. But dont call it stupidity of the human kind. Such things are perfomed by small groups of induviduals who claim to be terrorists. And terrorists are terrorists and always will be terrorists. You are either against them or with them, and when you are against it makes you a target. Simple is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 See, the main thing wrong with americans as I have debated with numerous Brits and the like: we think we are too powerful. We are too brash we think we're ultimate and that no one can stop us. I feel that we rushed to war... in both Vietnam and Iraq. I'm not saying all Americans are ignorant.. just 85%. I think that GW is an idiot... but that's just me you don't have to agree. I mean all these people with the war on terror and stuff... we could be cleaning up America containing crime and making a better image for ourselves... but the war is stupid... I remember when I was riding in a car with this American... he and his buddy up in the front seat were talking about Iraq. He felt that we were the best the most elite people in the world... we had a bit of an argument I told him thats a great incentive for war[sarcasm]... he felt that we were doing so much good for the world because of our eliteness we're wiping up Iraq and making it a better country... good lord the amount of ignorance in people annoys me! What it all boils down to is that there will always be wars... live & die that's what the human life consists of: power struggles... major and minor human life will always be the price. Vote for me when I'm running for President, though I'll probably be assassinated(first Vietnamese President anyone?) tie... your sense of humor is incredibly.... i dont have words for it... but its bad... ever seen a comedian laugh at his own joke when no one else in the room laughs? yeah, its like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wassup Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 Well I hoped that this thread would stay on topic, but I guess people just can't control themselves anymore. Have a good day everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Spain threatens Iraq troop pull-out Spain's Socialist Party prime minister-elect says he will pull troops out of Iraq - unless the UN takes charge. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said: "The war in Iraq was a disaster, the occupation of Iraq is a disaster." He called for a grand international alliance against terror and an end to "unilateral wars". The Socialists won a shock poll victory after voters appeared to turn on the government over its handling of the Madrid bombings that killed 200 people. Spain has more than 1,300 troops in Iraq http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3512144.stm Police 'identify' Madrid bombers Spanish police are reported to have identified six Moroccans who they believe carried out the Madrid bomb attacks that have killed 201 people. Five of the suspects are still at large but one is in custody, the Spanish newspaper El Pais quotes security sources as saying. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3515138.stm Looks like being an islamic terrorist group, but not al quaida directly. Although i'm sure there are those that will claim their involvement. It's kind of worrying that terrorists have basically just changed the government of a democratic country. ----- I still maintain that terrorism is a comparatively (very) minor threat in the world which thrives on publicity and fear. All this hype on the "War on terror" just adds to that publicity and fear and basically gives the terrorist exactly what they want without particularly adding to anyone's security. Of course it is shocking when there is a big disaster, and terrible for those directly concerned, but in the same way that one big air crash getting far more publity than all the little car crashes doesn't alter the fact that planes are far safer than cars, one big attack doesn't alter the fact that the risk of terrorism is minor. ------- The only way to stop terrorism (as seen in northern ireland) is to either cut off their funding and grass roots support (ie, all the americans stopped funding them after 9/11) and/or address the concerns that lead to the movement. In ireland we cracked down hardcore style in the 80s, massive police and army presence, internment (imprisonment without trial) and so on. It just lead to and increase in grass roots support among those who felt oppressed and more attacks. Similarly, Israel has been bringing massive force to bear on palestinian millitants for years, the harderthey crack down the more support the millitants gain and the more deaths there are on both sides. The US cracking down on international terrorism is just going to have the same effects IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 TiE, This is going to sound bad coming from a preacher, but.... STFU. How dare you even joke about such a thing! I know you have said you're sorry, but to the family of the victims, and the survivors, that would not be enough. Gah. How DARE you! *is disgusted* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie™ Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by toms Spain has more than 1,300 troops in Iraq http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3512144.stm Finally some good news... Thank you for sharing that, i didn't know that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermie Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by Alegis Gensan it's a moral issue for them, osama is for em like..the ideal. If he gets caught they will no longer think they're unstoppable, but what results it could have? Who knows basic Bush thinking. I dont think their network will fall together without Osama. there are a lot more money providers/organisators than him. they kill themself for the "better causes", so I think they will panic less, than if they should kill any of the western leaders... my heart go out to the families left back. but there have died more people in the middle-east because of USA politics than of terrorist attacks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rccar328 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Open letter to the people of Spain Here's some highlights: The terrorist attack that massacred 200 of your countrymen, and injured over a thousand, was a horrific act. The world grieves with you. We all know it could have happened to our people in our countries just as easily as it happened in Madrid last Thursday. But no matter how tragic and horrible that act was, it was not a victory for the terrorists. The victory for the terrorists in Spain came on Sunday. The professed goal of the attack, according to numerous al-Qaida communiques, was to punish Spain for its support of the United States in the war against Iraq. Sunday, in your free elections, you voted to place the Spanish Socialist Workers Party in power. This morning your new leadership announced that it would withdraw the Spanish troops from Iraq, and in effect abandon the coalition. Your actions proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to al-Qaida that if they kill enough people in a mass-casualty attack they can swing the popular vote. You've proved they can influence elections. This attack in Spain disgusts and saddens me. I am saddened because once again, terrorists have murdered innocent people. I am disgusted because the goal of the attack was obviously to influence the Spanish election, and the people of Spain allowed it to accomplish its goal. When will people understand that appeasement does not work? Prior to World War 2, many European nations went to Hitler and signed non-aggression treaties. It didn't do them any good. They allowed Hitler's troops to invade Poland in the hopes that he would be satisfied and stop there. It didn't happen. Now, in a pitiful act of appeasement, a nation has allowed a terrorist organization to influence its election. The saddest part of all is that their action in no way guarantees that Spain will not be attacked at a later date. The simple truth is, the only way to effectively end terrorism is to get rid of terrorists. Appeasement will never get the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by rccar328 I am disgusted because the goal of the attack was obviously to influence the Spanish election, and the people of Spain allowed it to accomplish its goal. [/b] There is precious little that indicates that the prime purpose of this act of terrorism was to change the course of the Spanish election. The date of the acts was very symbolic (911 days after 9/11) and the Spanian goverment was one of the major supporters of the Iraq war, and it might well be a coincidence that the Spanish election was in this time period as well. Besides that, you alledge that this act was committed by the Al-Qaida simply for the purpose of changing the goverment from a conservative to a socialist. This argument does not hold ground. The PP (the conservative party which was previously in power) could just as well have made this as evidence that Al-Qaida and other terrorist organizations need to be struck down hard, and that it's the PP that needs to be in power to ensure the safety of Spain. After 9/11 president Bush did this, and his popularity soared far up, so why shouldn't the same thing happen in Spain? How could the Al-Qaida know that the PP would (sorry for the expression) screw up when dealing with this incidence? I could easily turn your allegation against you by saying that it may just as well be in Al-Qaida's interest to ensure that the PP would continue in power. But on the other hand, I believe there's a fair chance the bombings had little to do with the election, so I won't. When will people understand that appeasement does not work? Prior to World War 2, many European nations went to Hitler and signed non-aggression treaties. It didn't do them any good. They allowed Hitler's troops to invade Poland in the hopes that he would be satisfied and stop there. It didn't happen. Now, in a pitiful act of appeasement, a nation has allowed a terrorist organization to influence its election. The saddest part of all is that their action in no way guarantees that Spain will not be attacked at a later date. The simple truth is, the only way to effectively end terrorism is to get rid of terrorists. Appeasement will never get the job done. While it's true that appeasment is horribly ineffective, I would like to ask you what relevance this fact has to do with this debate. "My most immediate priority is to combat all forms of terrorism". This was said by José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, the leader of the socialist party in Spain (PSOE) and the new prime minister of Spain. He promises that combatting terrorism will be his main task in the time ahead. It is true that the PSOE has withdrawn all Spanian forces from Iraq, but this was actually one of the main political issues the PSOE had during the election. The PSOE has always critizised the war on Iraq, and mention it as "a cathastrophy". There were two reasons for why the PP lost so much popularity to the PSOE just after 3/11. Firstly, they put all the blame on the ETA, even though there was considerable evidence that Al-Qaida was behind it. This was though to be only due to the goverment's anti-ETA opinions. Secondly, people believed that these acts of terrorism were directly caused by Spain's role in the Iraqi conflict as a part of the occupation force (9 out of 10 Spanians actually opposed this war). They believed that any actions from Spain that would cause so much hate and anger for people to attack them directly, should be critizised. I'd like to ask you again: What relevance does appeasment have for this debate? (I didn't answer to all of his arguments, simply because I believe I have already answered these in my previous post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 i don't get the appeasment bit either. You don't have to appease terrorists, but you do need to address the issues that give rise to their grass roots support. Using your (dodgy) analogy) of WW2, if someone had managed to defuse a lot of the issues at a grass roots level that left the population of germany feeling agrieved (eg: economic problems based on WW1 debts) then it is entirely possible that Hitler would never have gained enough support to start the war in the first place. Similarly, if a lot of the issues that aggrieve muslims around the world were addressed then Al Quaida would find it a lot harder to get recruits and hiding places. Basically, the spanish government (like a lot of other governments) went into the war in iraq against the wishes of it's people because it felt that it was in their interests to do so. It can't therefore feel aggreived when it is voted out of power because it's policy backfired. There was a poll in the UK that showed that 93% of people felt the war on terror/iraq had made us less secure and more vunerable to attack. I suspect a lot of people in spain feel the same way. If a government does something against the overwhealming wishes of it's public then it had better be damn sure it won't backfire on them. I think i was being too simplistic when i said the terrorists had changed the government, as the reaction by the spanish people was entirely understandable and i think the election timing was just unfortunate. However it is no different to GW using the 9/11 attacks to attempt to get himself re-elected. He capitalises on people's feelings of grief and anger, the same grief and anger that lead people to vote the way they did. BTW, the new spanish government haven't said they are withdrawing troops whatever, they have said they will withdraw troops unless control of operations is handed over to the UN and the US stops doing everything unilaterally. Frankly, i'm surprised a lot of countries haven't done this already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wilson Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 My heart goes out to the familes of the dead. But the sad teuth about terroist attacks is that the victims can never real 'win' or find peace. for example Bin laden. They havent caught him so a) families carnt see justice done B) his supporters will be greatly reasured and may go on to greater terrorist works. If they do catch him then he becomes a Maryter and preaty much B) happens. The point is that terroism should not be given a face, it should be given a name Ie. Al-quida and hunted as a group, not for the leader by himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rccar328 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Similarly, if a lot of the issues that aggrieve muslims around the world were addressed then Al Quaida would find it a lot harder to get recruits and hiding places. That's a pretty shaky argument, especially when you consider the goal of extremist Islamic terror groups (such as Al-Qaida). Their goal is to spread fundamentalist Islam across the globe. That's the only thing that'll get them to stop. Not a step I'm willing to take. Besides, if this report is true, staying out of Iraq isn't really helping France any.........go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by rccar328 That's a pretty shaky argument, especially when you consider the goal of extremist Islamic terror groups (such as Al-Qaida). Their goal is to spread fundamentalist Islam across the globe. That's the only thing that'll get them to stop. ...Not a step I'm willing to take... Speaking as a Muslim, I totally disagree. Many Muslims abhor the violence, and we reject their interpretation of the Quran, just as many Christians wouldn't be in agreeance with the philosophy of the KKK, despite it often promoting itself as a Christian organisation.... plain and simple, Al Queda and the like want to disrupt the western way of life in as drastic means as possible. Unfortunately this was why the Twin Towers were attacked, a global symbol of western capitalism..... mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 The problem with mankind is that we are too unaffected by the parameters of perfection ergo we do not seek it we seek instead power and the ability to control others... a way of life which will soon collapse and therefore lead to the complete extinction of humanity. Oh those darn emotions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rccar328 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 Many Muslims abhor the violence, and we reject their interpretation of the Quran, just as many Christians wouldn't be in agreeance with the philosophy of the KKK, despite it often promoting itself as a Christian organisation.... I completely agree (I happen to be a Christian who isn't in agreeance with the philosophy of the KKK). I never said, and it was never my intention to communicate that all Muslims are that way. I said extremist Islamic terror groups. Not the mainstream. The extremist fringes. And that's a whole other sack of banannas when compared to mainstream Islam. btw...I found another report, this one originating from the Associated Press, which corroborates the previous story about France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.