Developers roundup: let's make our own unofficial game

[Canine_Shamus]

...now all I gotta do is learn how to animate using ags...

[woxel1]

I wish I could help on this project, but I don't think I could find the time. Maybe I could host the webpage for the project

 

I'm so moved by the love on this messagboard (certain parties excluded) that I made this silly song in the spirit of Sam & Max:

http://www.penguinbros.com/Music/stereotypical/clublagomorph.mp3

 

I wish I could say it was totally original. The arrangements are, certainly, but it was but a drag and drop affair in Apple's GarageBand. Oooh... if only I had that MIDI Keyboard. Well, good luck, guys.

[Chron-O-John]

Perfect track for sam and max music

[Brushguy]

Awesome MP3 track...I'll use it in the full version. And the title "Club Lagamorph" could be an area in the game...

 

But, about that demo I was making...

 

 

Here it is!

http://www.freewebs.com/keatonsworld/samandmax2demo.zip

 

The only places you can go are Sam & Max's office, the hallway, outside sidewalk, and the Geek's lab. To go to the lab, PUSH the red-white-and-blue colored switch in the office.

 

My only gripe is that there are a few sloppy spots, and the 3D landscape studio I use is a bit blocky, i.e. the green sofa in the office is a bit mis-shapen. Other than that, I think it's a great demo. Also keep in mind that what the full version looks like is not set yet. This is just my vision for it, and it will only look like this if I am chosen to lead the project.

 

Also, tygerbug, I used your Sam and Max sprites ZIP, so thanks. But I was wondering, since you did the "next generation" pictures of Sam and Max separately, how long did it take you, because it would look nice to have the original Hit the Road sprites rendered. But if you think it would take too much time, I'll settle for normal sprites.

[Brushguy]

woxel1, if you want to, you could help write some music for the game. It doesn't matter if the music isn't completely original.

 

I've been looking over the demo, trying to be very critical with it, and it would help if James Isaac could do an AGS engine for the game, different than the one in the demo. Also, I honestly think that my backgrounds are too blocky to fit our needs for the game, so if anybody thinks they can do a better job than me, please step up. I'm still up for Hit the Road sprites in the game, unless it won't be too much trouble for tygerbug to render the sprites.

 

Finally, the final game has to be assembled on one of our PCs, since we're all in different locations on the planet. Once we decide on that person, send all the content to him/her for assembly.

[Chron-O-John]

How come I am unable to post attachments and the rest of you are allowed to do so? This is unfair!

[James Isaac]

I can't download that file...

 

But can't I do the programming aswell? Like tygerbug said, we do need a lot of programmers.

 

And, brushguy, do you have any other games you have programmed that I can try out? Seeing as I can't download the S&M demo.

[Brushguy]

@ Chron-O-John: to post attachments, you need a website to host your stuff, and then make an URL link here.

 

@ James Isaac: sorry, thought you said you could program the GUIs in AGS. If we're gonna do AGS, we'll need somebody to make an improved engine for the game, because I can't do GUI engines.

 

@tygerbug: I'd like your opinion on the demo.

 

As for downloading the demo, this is a common problem with these forums. You should right-click the link and press "Save As," or copy the URL to the address in your browser window.

[James Isaac]

I tried downloading the demo in a lot of different ways - straight from the site, and through GetRight, but it wouldn't work - the best i could do was get it downloading at 1.31 kb/s . Can you e-mail it to

 

And, Brushguy, I am a bit confused as to what you want me to do, so lets start from the beginning again...

 

I have never used AGS before, but I have used a lot of other programming languages, and I am sure I will be able to pick up AGS. So yeah, whatever you want me to do I'll have a go at.

 

And, btw, me and the DOTA team are not definetly helping - it depends on our impressions after the demo.

[Brushguy]

James Isaac, a few posts ago, you said that you were fluent in several programming languages, and mentioned AGS. I'm not trying to force you into doing it or anything. It was just a misunderstanding. If you don't want to do anything in AGS, fine. If you do, that'll be great.

 

Okay, to download the demo, try going to http://www.freewebs.com/lucaskeen , and click the link at the bottom of the page that says to download the demo. And yes, Freewebs download time is extremely lousy. I can't e-mail it to you because Hotmail only allows 1 MB attachments. The demo's 3 MB.

 

Finally, I need at least a few opinions on the graphics of the demo to know whether you want me to go ahead and do backgrounds for the game or find somebody else to do it.

[toenail1]

You never IM'ed or emailed me about writing yet.

[James Isaac]

Phew. 1 hour later and I managed to download it

 

Well, the game certainly is.... intresting. The backgrounds are quite good - except for the 2d drawn objects like the TV and a few low poly models. I recommend you celshade it though - I think it would look a lot better. And some of the zbuffers need attention.

 

If you e-mail me the source code for that game, I'll try to work out AGS, and then programme a GUI (that's what you wanted, right?).

 

And, are we going to buy a domain and get hosting for this project? If we get $40 together, I can get us http://www.samandmax2.net or something with really good hosting, like this one: http://www.dotagame.com .

 

So, can you e-mail the source code for this game please brushGuy?

 

And, do you have MSN or Yahoo messenger? Becuase that way it would bea lot easier to talk to you.

[tygerbug]

Um, I've been avoiding replying because I didn't like the style of the demo and didn't want to say it. But I know I gotta respond.

 

So, here goes.

 

Good points of your demo:

 

Max tags along quite well. I was surprised at how naturally he follows along.

 

There is not much dialogue yet, but a lot of it is good.

 

 

 

The game is too slow, though. Way too slow.

 

The talking animations are also inconsistently cropped and imported, resulting in jerky animations in actual gameplay. The "talking from the side" Sam is put on over a frame that is wrong for it.

 

 

The main thing is the backgrounds and the way they work.

 

 

The graphic look of the demo would be okay for a weird little amateur 3d game. But it ain't Lucasarts. The color scheme of neon greens and purples burns into my retinas. It's ugly.

 

We really need to work in the standard Lucasarts art style here. I can tell that you're not a traditional artist ... or even a photoshop artist really ... but it's got to look like Hit the Road/Day of the Tentacle/Monkey Island. You could find someone else to do it.

 

The real problem is not so much the colors or graphics, which could be just placeholder test graphics and still create a perfectly playable game. The thing that Lucasarts got right was perspective. There was a slightly warped cartoon perspective, sure, but it was always carefully arranged to give you a wide open playfield. When you walk around in a Lucasarts game, you can walk anywhere and usually still see your character. Huge objects don't obscure him in the foreground. The character always obscures the objects, and still seems small in the roomy, spacious, warped perspective of the room.

 

This really does require 2d art, as I've yet to see a 3d artist pull it off.

 

Study the backgrounds in any classic Lucasarts game. It really is a genius style, and completely evocative of the way Steve Purcell draws and paints.

 

Study the backgrounds in the cartoon series (I'm thinking particularly of the episode "The Invaders"). Maybe even capture them and use bits of them.

 

Look at this background:

 

http://samandmax.net/images/concept/freelancepolice/1.jpg

 

See how simple and playable that is?

 

 

Or even this:

 

http://samandmax.net/images/concept/freelancepolice/7.jpg

 

 

More like that. That kind of perspective.

 

 

 

Anyway, it's a decent start. Hope to see some more Lucasartsy backdrops though, from a different artist probably.

 

 

As for the sprites ...

 

My "next generation" Sam and Max were just heavily shaded and finished versions of how Sam and Max looked in certain Hit the Road cinema cutscenes. It was intended to show how the game could look, but there is no further animation of these size characters, and they aren't extrapolated from the Hit the Road sprites really (apart from Sam's feet).

 

When I did that concept art:

http://orangecow.org/1media/sammaxnexxtscreengrab.gif

 

I really had the TV series sprites in mind, which would give that same "next" generation look of higher-res finished animation.

 

 

As for your DVD screencapping troubles, that happens often with DVDs. You have to try a couple of different screen capturing programs .... one will work.

 

Still, the demo has more pressing design problems right now than what sprites to use. I'd rather see a visual style for the backgrounds which looks Sam and Max-y right now.

 

 

 

Oh - the demo downloaded outrageously slowly for me too.

 

Anyone else wanting to DL it at the moment can get it off my webspace nice and fast:

 

http://orangecow.org/1media/samandmax2demo%202.zip

 

 

I also wouldn't mind having the AGS source for this demo.

[James Isaac]

I still think we should go with cel shaded 3D scenes. It makes them look cartoony, but also realistic. It is also easier to create.

 

And yes. The beginning of the demo was very strange. Why was the camera so low? And then max goes walking through the table.

 

And I never realised that max tagged along, but if he does, I'm intrested in knowing how you coded that =).

 

Anyway, tygerbug or brushguy, if you have MSN Messenger please add me so we can talk there.

[Brushguy]

I'm just as disappointed with the demo as you guys are. I'm wishing I'd never done it.

 

First of all, the reason the objects are so blocky and flat is because that the program I'm using is built for 3D shooters, not blowing people away with smooth polygons - I just moved the camera into parts of the rooms and took screenshots. And the reason the sprite talking animations are so sloppy is because I was rushed to finish the demo and get it onto the internet, because I felt guilty about making you guys wait for so long. The majority of the time I spent working on the demo was designing the 3D landscape.

 

Anyway, this is a start, no matter how disappointing it seems. I would still enjoy writing dialog for Sam and Max though, if you aren't too mad at me. I guess from now on people will be talking down to me.

 

I can tell that you're not a traditional artist ... or even a photoshop artist really ...

 

That's where you're wrong. I am an excellent artist with 2D hand-drawn backgrounds, and I don't want you treating me like I'm no good at drawing. If we're going to do 3D-rendered backgrounds, I'm the wrong guy for it, as you can see (because all the software I have is meant for in-game polygons) and you need to find somebody else. I'm just horrible in 3D environments. In the demo, the Geek's lab doesn't look like a cave...

 

I know where you're going about the perspective and you're right about 3D not being right for that. I have lots of hand-drawn Monkey Island-style backgrounds with great perspective and drawing in my fangame, Goodbye Monkey Island ( http://www.freewebs.com/lucaskeen fyi if you don't like the download time, there are some screenshots you can look at).

 

The problem with the perspective in the demo is that if I move the 3D camera back too far in the environment, the walls get in the way.

 

Anyway, I'm really sorry this didn't turn out the way it should have. Just for discussion's sake, would it have been better if I said "My 3D studios are too blocky for a demo, so I can't do a demo with 3D backgrounds."

 

Enough lamenting over that. Moving on. tygerbug, when I talked about the sprites, I meant taking all the Hit the Road sprites in your ZIP and rendering them like you did with those heavy render shots of Sam and Max. Still, the TV show sprites seems like the only way out right now, but like I said earlier, I can't do that. Same thing with the backgrounds, if you want them ripped from the show.

 

As for the AGS open-source code, I can e-mail you the files, tygerbug and James Isaac, without the game locked.

 

And I never realised that max tagged along, but if he does, I'm intrested in knowing how you coded that =).

 

On the first screen, choose the "First time player enters screen" dropdown menu. Choose the event "Follow another character" and have MAX follow SAM. It's not that difficult.

 

I'm hoping that I could still have a reasonably-high position in making this fangame after this embarrassment. So if there's any way I could redeem myself, please tell me.

 

I do have a hand-drawn background of Sam and Max's office, but that's only if we're doing 2D backgrounds.

 

EDIT: Here's the link, to prove I'm not a lousy artist. Right-click it and choose "Save As" to get around that annoying forum bug.

 

http://www.freewebs.com/keatonsworld/SCAN0005.gif

[Canine_Shamus]

What are you talking about, I loved the demo, the 3D looks so bloody sweet. I know it LOOKED like ****, but the sheer design behind it was amazing, I thought it was a step in the right direction, keep up the work!

[James Isaac]

Hey, we aren't gonna kill you becuase of that.

 

You had a go at a style, and it didn't suit the game. No problem - we'll just try another method.

 

But here's what I think we should do: Not make a full length adventure, but only do a mini one. We shouldn't try to make this too big or we'll just get upset when we don't have the time to complete it. Maybe 10 rooms or something, quite a bit of gameplay. But we want to keep it short. And I highly recommend that we use SLUDGE - it really isn't that hard to understand.

 

Can someone e-mail me the sprites, and backgrounds if you have any to (my yahoo inbox is full), and I'll try to get you a SLUDGE demo done soon.

 

On the first screen, choose the "First time player enters screen" dropdown menu. Choose the event "Follow another character" and have MAX follow SAM. It's not that difficult.

 

Oh right, I thought you'd coded the function yourself

 

Look here... I have an example of what the cel shading could look like on backgrounds:

 

 

Now, I know this doesn't look very good. The cel shading actually works quite a lot better on objects... but anyway, what do you think? That is a really quick test that my 3D modeller made and then cel shaded, then I put it into low res so you can see what it would be like in-game (I assume we are making this game in 320x240)?

 

Here is an example of the same artist's cel shading of 3D objects:

 

 

That is a cel shaded render of an early version of the UFO for Day of the Aliens. Now, in my opinion, I think that looks great, and would go well in any 2D game. So, do you want to use cel shaded backgrounds? Or should I try to use my 2D background artist?

 

Update

 

Look, I edited a screenshot from Sam and Max, and included the UFO. Now, if that was properly textured, I think it would fit in perfectly:

 

 

Do you want cel shading?

 

But whatever you think, please just e-mail me the current backgrounds and sprites, and I'll get to work on the SLUDGE demo.

 

 

~James

[Brushguy]

@ Pork Soda:

You're right about the 3D graphics. The studio I used was built for 3D shooters, so that's why the polygons were so blocky and low-res. If an exceptionally good 3D landscaper with smooth models come along, we'll reconsider the 3D idea.

 

@James Isaac:

 

Since I did an AGS demo, I think you could try a SLUDGE demo, James Isaac. And then, graphics aside, we could compare the AGS demo and the SLUDGE demo and see which one would be better.

 

If we decide on SLUDGE, your team will have to handle most of the programming. I could learn it, but what program would I need?

 

As for people griping about doing the game when we get it ready to program, after we get all the voices, graphics, sprites, etc. the way we exactly want it, you can make it as large as you want. Game creating is my hobby and I rarely let a game project hang in the air without working on it. So when we're ready, send me the stuff and I'll assemble.

 

The cel-shaded graphics look cool, but we'd need a cel-shaded Sam and Max to fit them in. It would be sweet if you could blend in 3D cel-shaded objects, like the UFO at Frog Rock in HTR.

 

Finally, I can't e-mail you the open-source AGS files because it's 2.4 MB and Hotmail only allows 1 MB. If you're willing to download it, I could host it on Freewebs.

[James Isaac]

But one of the advantages of SLUDGE is all the possibilities that are avaliable to the coder, so that will not be visible to the user of a demo, but for us it will be a great advantage. In AGS, you click a load of buttons, then type in a bit of code, then the game is made, but in SLUDGE, there are a lot more things taht you can code..,

 

And it isn't hard to learn. All you do is get the example project with a GUI you like, and then modify it. Brushguy, to get SLUDGE, go to Hungrysoftware.com and download the development kit and the engine and an example project that has a GUI you like. Then you can start by editing what the people say, then save, then compile.... and then you start to understand more, and before you know it you'll be a master.

 

So what backgrounds and sprites am I meant to be using? I don't get it. Should I just rip everything from SnM? If so, can someone please send me the character sprites because I am too lazy to get them myself

 

So, do you want me to get my 3D Modeller to remake part of the carnival in the same style as sam and max to see how it looks? But we should still keep 2D characters IMO. I think it would look nicer and still keep the origional sam and max look.

 

And I reckon before we spend too much time on this project, we should e-mail LucasArts and say something like "We are making a fan game based on Sam and Max, please reply if you have any objections." And if they reply, we probably would have got it shut down anyway... if they don't say anything, then we did warn them...

 

And you don't need to bother sending me the game source code unless we decide to use AGS (please, please no )...

 

And, I repeat...:

 

And, are we going to buy a domain and get hosting for this project? If we get $40 together, I can get us http://www.samandmax2.net or something with really good hosting, like this one: http://www.dotagame.com .

 

But here's what I think we should do: Not make a full length adventure, but only do a mini one. We shouldn't try to make this too big or we'll just get upset when we don't have the time to complete it. Maybe 10 rooms or something, quite a bit of gameplay. But we want to keep it short.

 

Opinions please...

 

And also, what resolution are we going to do this at? Retro Sam and Max or 640x480 or higher?

[Brushguy]

I'll download SLUDGE and check it out.

 

What I meant was that if we do cel-shaded graphics, I'd like your team to do them. But if we do cel-shaded backgrounds, chances are that everything else on screen will have to be cel-shaded.

 

Right now, I don't think any of us need to do anything. We're just speculating on the game.

 

As for the HTR sprites, tygerbug made a ZIP a few posts back that's 4 MB.

 

I'll e-mail Lucasarts, if I have enough guts. Should we show them some screenshots or something, or just say, "We're making a fangame, speak now or hold your peace."

 

As for the length of the game, I still say full-length.

 

As for the screen resolution, I say 640x480.

 

As for the web domain, I'll get back to you on that.

[James Isaac]

There's nothing wrong with e-mailing LucasArts - all we are doing is checking if they are ok with what they are doing - it's the right thing to do

 

I'll start working on a demo that should be done soon then...

 

And, how about we choose a story that could be short, and then we work on that, and if production goes well, we lengthen it and make a full length game.

 

Bringing sam and max hi res will be challenging, but fun... so are we going to draw hi-res sprites ourself?

[Canine_Shamus]

I don't have a problem with you guys using the old sprites, I just think that they should be smoothed out, and maybe a made a little more modern so they'll fit in a cell shaded enivronment. I also think that the length of the game should be short. If it does go well, then you can keep adding 'chapters' on, hell, if we get good enough at this it could be a monthly thing... but I'm getting ahead of myself.

 

I think if you stay short and simple, it will be better, and easier to rap your head around. Plus, I think the shorter it is, the more pontential it has for it to be a high quality game.

 

Plus, I think think simple ideas always turn out better, anyways, because then you can focus on the small stuff.

[James Isaac]

Yup. Good explanation . I agree with you.

 

I am working on the SLUDGE demo, and I am having so much fun with it, and I have a really cool suprise ready for the release of it which should be really cool. So that should be released by tommorow, so get ready

[Brushguy]

I hope your demo is better than mine. I'm actually looking forward to it.

 

If the demo is a success, and you guys still trust me after my bungle demo, you can send me the stuff to put into SLUDGE, since you're tied up with "Day of the Alien," James Isaac. I may need some help programming it, since I've never used SLUDGE before.

 

BTW, is your demo open-source, so I can look at the lines of coding and study it?

 

And doing the game in chapters would be great. On the second page of this topic, I put forward my "Sam and Max & the Artificial Intestines" story idea, but it's only 3 parts.

 

But who says we can't extend, eh? I haven't thought up an ending yet, so I guess we could go as long as we want with this game until we run out of ideas.

 

Here was my story...

 

SAM AND MAX & THE ARTIFICIAL INTESTINES

Part 1: The USA. Sam and Max look for the spy organization to deliver the intestines to and get kidnapped by Mack Salmon.

Part 2: In Mack Salmon's underground base. Escape it with the intestines.

Part 3: In Outer Space. Find the secret spy organization on a distant planet and deliver the intestines.

 

Anyway, after we settle on a story, be it this one or another, we need to focus on puzzles.

 

But where did tygerbug go? It's been a while since he posted.

[toenail1]

brushguy, still no email, PM, or IM about this writing stuff, when are you going to let me know?