Tinfoil espionage operatives

[Joshi]

Originally posted by RayJones

joshi: 3 times infinity is 3infinity, of course! only that math says infinity is infinity no matter "how often". but 3infinity is more infinite than infinity.

however, how you want to "share" something among nothing is still unclear.

 

3x is 3 times x, fine, that's because x can be defined as a constant value. Infinity cannot be defined as a constant value, it is infinate. to multiply the infinate by 3 is stupid because you can get 3 multiplied by everything, it's mathematically impossible, therefore, 3 X infinity is infinity.

 

Secondly, there is no how about it, if you try to share something among nothing, you are asking how many nothings are there for me to share into this something, which is infinate, therefore, if we share something among infinity, we end up with nothing. It's a simple concept.

 

And Zoom, who's to say god head doesn't get in the way? Who's to say god even has a head, or maybe he has tentacles. Do we know?

 

You know, if we created two objects in some 3D software that could reflect the surface it sees and face them towards each other in parallel, would we stare into infinity (assuming that our viewpoint is between both reflective surfaces and we don't inadvertantly create a head)?

 

And if no one downloaded the page he still would have said something as he would have percieved it. If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it does it make a sound? Yes, the tree saw it happen and heard it crash. it cannot tell us, but it is a living thing following the basic principles of MRSGREN and therefore the answer must be yes. (here we go)

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

3x is 3 times x, fine, that's because x can be defined as a constant value. Infinity cannot be defined as a constant value, it is infinate. to multiply the infinate by 3 is stupid because you can get 3 multiplied by everything, it's mathematically impossible, therefore, 3 X infinity is infinity.

 

infinity cannot be defined because you cannot express infinity in a number. that is why you cannot calculate with infinity. what you can do is examine how a formula "works out" if you let a variable go against infinity, means what happens to the result if you use really large numbers. (or for the "division by zero" matter, use numbers that go really really close towards 0)

 

a simple equation: y=3*x .. y is three times larger than x..

now if you let x go against infinity, y will always be 3 times larger than x.

and that is true because you never (can?) reach infinity as limit.

at least with math. but you cannot leave math aways since your calculation (division) is completely based on the laws of math.

 

Secondly, there is no how about it, if you try to share something among nothing, you are asking how many nothings are there for me to share into this something ..

 

sharing nothing among something (infinite or not): you have one (or more? hey why not..? ) table(s) and nothing to put on it.

 

means: it wont bring you anything except that you have one (or more? hey why not..? ) table(s) ..

 

is different from

 

sharing someting (infinite or not) among nothing: there is this chick (or more? .. hey.. .. *cough* ) that wants to be taken on a table but you have no table to do her on it.

 

means: there is no chance you will do it on a table, no matter how hard you try. and why should you even try? you just cant.

 

but how about the kitchen sink instead?

 

which is infinate, therefore, if we share something among infinity, we end up with nothing. It's a simple concept.

 

put in a formula it could be as simple as this: y=3/x (hey.. does that mean you have 3 souls? or a soul for 3? )

as said before, the larger x is, the smaller y will be. thats what "your" theory basically says. but you cant define the "final" reflection of yours (the "final" divisor) because there always will be a "next one". you only can define a reflection you want to set as x to use it in your equation.

so y will never be 0 it will be "damned" to be sooooo close to 0 for ever.

 

this is where infinity might kick in somehow.

 

If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it does it make a sound? Yes, the tree saw it happen and heard it crash. it cannot tell us, but it is a living thing following the basic principles of MRSGREN and therefore the answer must be yes. (here we go)

 

if a tree falls then snoopy will cry.

 

also there will be everything that makes us percieve something like the sound of a falling tree.

 

hmm.. and according to the theory that there is no sound if noone percieves it.. is how can there be a falling tree?

 

skinkie: for deconfusion read right after reading one of wallys err.. thingies.

things will be much clearer then..

 

zoom: err.. nope. no clue.

[Joshi]

Asymptote! That was the word I was looking for earlier. But never mind that, it's not needed now.

 

In the laws of math, when something is considered "to be sooooo close to 0 for ever", it is then considered to be 0. But what you're basically saying is that in real life, when one stands between two parallel mirrors, ones sould would be small as heck, but never gone, which i understand. But still, I according to the laws of mathemetics, anything divided by 0 is infinity. I'm staing this as fact, many people believe this and then discard it and go for the "anything divided by 0 can't be done" still having fresh in their mind the fact that it could be infinity, only infinity can't be calculated in math and so they don't.

 

but saying anything divided by 0 can't be done is just saying, well it can be done, only we can't do anything with the result considering it's infinate.

 

Therefore, anything diveded by infinity is 0

 

And you're right, if no one see's the tree falling, are we even sure this so called tree exists?

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

Asymptote! That was the word I was looking for earlier. But never mind that, it's not needed now.

 

In the laws of math, when something is considered "to be sooooo close to 0 for ever", it is then considered to be 0.

 

neeeee.. asymptote is what we need here.

 

sooo close to 0 is not equal 0. what you mean is that the limit of y is 0 if x goes against infinity. that does not mean y will ever become 0.

 

But what you're basically saying is that in real life, when one stands between two parallel mirrors, ones sould would be small as heck, but never gone, which i understand.

 

me just got the idea that a mirror is limited to a certain resolution. there is a countable number of atoms/molecules which make up the mirror. so there is definitly a point where no further reflection is possible. bye bye infinity.

 

.. according to the laws of mathemetics, anything divided by 0 is infinity.

 

yes, it it would only be logical, except for the fact that 0/0= infinity is somewhat unlogic since 0/x with x<>0 is always 0, also, this is clearly non-practicable.

 

but who knows. math also found a way to squareroot negative numbers..

 

I'm staing this as fact, many people believe this and then discard it and go for the "anything divided by 0 can't be done" still having fresh in their mind the fact that it could be infinity, only infinity can't be calculated in math and so they don't.

 

i would not say i believe it, but it's a possible solution for a "not solved" issue.

 

 

i consider the matter of infinity as somehow complex, and we have already a simple way to deal with it in math, but not the "philosophical" kind of way you want it.

 

however math does not need to divide by 0 or calculate with infinity itself.

 

but saying anything divided by 0 can't be done is just saying, well it can be done, only we can't do anything with the result considering it's infinate.

 

ok, it cannot be done the mathematic way. and like i said there is no mathematical need for doing this. there are ways to solve equations concerning this matter.

 

the rest is only philosophical theory, since you just cant do it with the girl on the table if you got none. no matter if the girl or you or you both or whatever the result is, is turning infinite or not. my analogy stands. dividing by 0 makes no sense in any rational concern.

 

And you're right, if no one see's the tree falling, are we even sure this so called tree exists?

 

that is what leads this question ad absurdum, although i think zoom would point out that the monkeys saw the tree and made it existing. hey. but they didnt saw the tree's roots, and that's why it finally falls?

[Sivy]

somebody pull my finger

[Ray Jones]

*pulls*

[Sivy]

oh crap

 

...

 

*runs to the toilet*

 

 

 

 

this thread was getting too intellectual, lucky I was on hand to lower the tone

[Ray Jones]

because of people like you mankind will be doomed.

 

[Joshi]

I'm just gonna do this whatever way.

Basically, yes, mirrors can only see so far until you see no more, but technically, it should go into infinity, it just doesnt because it's a cheap crappy mirror, as are all mirrors which is why I don't buy one unless I can see infinity in it (guess how many mirrors are in my house, go on, guess!)

 

Basically, this is just the idea that if a purely reflective surface faced another purely reflective surface in parallel, it should stare into infinity.

 

Also, any number divided by 0 is impossible to calculate.l

 

Also, any number divided by 0 is infinity.

 

There are always two trains of thought to something, mathematical theory says both are true, we just disregard one because it doesn't help us in any way in actual math. Much like we disregard asymptotes equalling 0 when we do stuff like small angle approximations, it's just little cheats we do.

[Zoom Rabbit]

Okay, never mind the whole mirrors thing. It's confusing, depends too greatly upon factors like point of view, photon--particle or wave?, atomic resolution...and besides, it's all done with mirrors anyway.

 

 

Let us instead visit the concept of infinity by hacking on a yardstick...or a meterstick, if you prefer. *(Produces a cheap wooden yardstick and places it on top of Joshi's nice mahogany desk. Draws his samurai sword and cuts the stick precisely in half.)*

 

I reduced the length of the stick by half. Now, I can do that again *(Does so.)* and have a fourth of a stick left. I do it again, and again, and again...and I will always have some portion of stick left.

 

Here's the tricky part. At some point, the piece of stick will be too small for me to cut, even with precise sword control such as mine. Fortunately, I can magically shrink myself down to size for the sake of argument, even past the subatomic level. I'd be carving up the last quark, and still have some left.

 

My point? There are an infinite number of sword cuts in a finite space. Or on Joshi's desk.

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

Basically, this is just the idea that if a purely reflective surface faced another purely reflective surface in parallel, it should stare into infinity.

 

theory mostly works, i had the same idea years ago and assuming the right circumstances it would "stare" into infinity.

 

Also, any number divided by 0 is infinity.

 

why is 0 divided by 0 infinity if 0 divided by any other number gives 0?

 

 

zoom.. theoretically .. yes. and are you trying to say there is no smallest "bit" existing?

[Joshi]

My...my desk!

 

You twit! I'll have you know that cost me twelve dinari, three cows and half a goat!

 

But what you're basically saying is that no matter what you do, you will always have a fraction of that stick left and since you can do this and infinate amount of times without actually losing this fraction of a stick to nothing, you end up with a fraction of 1/infinity equalling a number very extremely close to 0.

 

However (oh it's no fun not to argue) think about it this way, after how many decimal 0's does another interger apart from zero actually appear?

 

Or in other words, it would basically be

1 X 10^-Infinity, and so basically, you would get 0.0000000 recurring, meaning you get 0

 

Oh yeah! One the spot baybe, one the spot!

 

Now someone prove me wrong (it's not a challenge, it's a prediction)

 

EDIT

Sorry, didn't see rays post.

okay, so with the exception of 0 divided by 0 (which could either be 0 as it is 0 divided by a number, 1 as it is the same number divided by itself, or infinity for the reasons I've stated above, but we won't go into that) any othe number divided by 0 should be infinate.

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

Or in other words, it would basically be

1 X 10^-Infinity, and so basically, you would get 0.0000000 recurring, meaning you get 0

 

wouldnt it be "0." and then and infinite amount of "0" and then a "1"?

 

and would that mean that the "infinite" amount isnt infinite at all because there is another digit for the "1"?

 

is there anything proven yet?

 

[Joshi]

The word infinate is basically meant to denote anything that's ongoing. Ten divided by 3 is 3.3 recurring. This means that the .3 will go on forever, to infinity.

 

Therefore, there can never be a 1 as the point 0 would just keep going forever, making it 0.

 

But yeah, nothing is really proven, the only way to prove something (anything) is by disproving all other alternatives, and we won't do that so nothing can be definate.

[Zoom Rabbit]

Originally posted by RayJones

zoom.. theoretically .. yes. and are you trying to say there is no smallest "bit" existing?

 

Ah, yes...that is confusing. What I was really looking at with the yardstick model was space, not matter. The stick was just something to cut up on top of Joshi's nice mahogany desk; what I was really doing was taking a given length and dividing it in half. You can divide the remaining space in half an infinite number of times.

 

I'll leave the math to you guys. Dammit, Jim--I'm a line cook, not a mathematician! (I study the use of numbers in numerology and kabbalah, but they usually deal with integers of ten or below.) You want a perfect cheeseburger, talk to me...you want the equation behind the cooking time of the cheeseburger versus ambient kitchen temperatures and gas-flow variance to the cooking surface...talk to Ray or Joshi.

 

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit

What I was really looking at with the yardstick model was space, not matter. The stick was just something to cut up on top of Joshi's nice mahogany desk; what I was really doing was taking a given length and dividing it in half. You can divide the remaining space in half an infinite number of times.

 

that is correct.. (you and your stories!! )

 

 

Originally posted by Joshi

The word infinate is basically meant to denote anything that's ongoing. Ten divided by 3 is 3.3 recurring. This means that the .3 will go on forever, to infinity.

 

yes, but still there is the one number "directly" before 10/3.

yes, it is there.

 

Therefore, there can never be a 1 as the point 0 would just keep going forever, making it 0.

 

err.. 1x10^-1= 0.1 means a "0" followed by 1 "1".

 

1x10^-10 =0.0000000001 means 10 "0"s followed by 1 "1"

 

according to this principle 1x10^-(infinity) would be an infinite number of "0"s followed by 1 "1" (err, and not "0." and infinite "0"s and a 1, like i said before.. that would be 1 "0" too much.. )

[Joshi]

But where would the 1 go? You can't calculate infinity and so the 0's would go on for infinity. Theoretically, yes, a 1 should appear at the end, but what I'm satying is, there is no end, the 0's just go on forever, they have to, leaving no -place for the 1. the one has to have a place for it to be for the number not to be just 0, but it doesn't have a place because it's place is beyond infinity and I'M NOT BUZZ LIGHTYEAR!

 

I think I've made my point

[Zoom Rabbit]

Oh, stoppit Joshi...you are too Buzz Lightyear. You aren't fooling anyone.

 

 

I thought infinity was represented mathematically by a number 8 lying on its side, which handily avoids mentioning zeroes altogether...

[Joshi]

So it's not an actualy number then (actual numbers being anything constructed by the characters 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 0)

 

the 8 on it's side is just used to represent something, like pi or alpha and omega.

 

It's all greek to me.

 

And I would like to point out to everyone that I am not Buzz Lightyear! I would like to make it absolutely clear that I am nothing like my father!

 

 

Oh crap.

[Ray Jones]

Originally posted by Joshi

But where would the 1 go? You can't calculate infinity and so the 0's would go on for infinity. Theoretically, yes, a 1 should appear at the end, but what I'm satying is, there is no end, the 0's just go on forever, they have to, leaving no -place for the 1. the one has to have a place for it to be for the number not to be just 0, but it doesn't have a place because it's place is beyond infinity and I'M NOT BUZZ LIGHTYEAR!

 

I think I've made my point

 

yes you did. denial of the infinity of infinity. ignorance of the infinite small, quasi nothing yet something .. thingy. the digital nature of analogy. the beginning of existence. the birth of chaos. ..

 

TO TEH HOUSE OF PAIN WITH YOU!!!

 

muhahahahar.

 

*gets hit by running wall*

[Dr Edison 007]

Dr. Edison: Ah, oui? J'espere que vous soyez femme...

 

You speak French too, how romantic Zoom.

[DrMcCoy]

Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit

Dammit, Jim--I'm a line cook, not a mathematician!

 

that's (kind of) my line...

although i'm no line cook but a doctor (dammit zoom/jim/sith_master2000/whoever!)

 

hmm, but i'm a mathematician (well, sort of... i like math and i got back a math test today... 13 points... (which would be an A- in american grades (iirc)) (it will change into 14 points (an A) hopefully, because one assignment was formulated really strange and the teacher took the test with him again to check that...)) (and although i hate LISP, i like brackets ( ))...

[Ray Jones]

"mathe/physik leistungkurs" huh? huh?

[Joshi]

Originally posted by DrMcCoy

hmm, but i'm a mathematician (well, sort of... i like math and i got back a math test today... 13 points... (which would be an A- in american grades (iirc)) (it will change into 14 points (an A) hopefully, because one assignment was formulated really strange and the teacher took the test with him again to check that...)) (and although i hate LISP, i like brackets ( ))...

 

Funny, I thought you were going to make a point there.

 

Oh and Ray, I know of and believe in the infinity, of infinity. I have no ignorance of the infinite small, quasi nothing yet something .. thingy, but I do believe that there may be something else. And the digital nature of analogy can kiss my arse. The beginning of existence started with a bang, followed by the dropping of an egg and cress sandwich.

 

I have stared into the infinite

 

And it is nothing.

It is also blue (not black, common misconseption)

 

And Chaos was never born, he was around before the birth of time, he was around before pestilence, famine, war and death. He was the beginning.

 

And now he's a milkman going by the name of Ronnie Soak. (Soak spelled backwards, gettit?)

 

Which just goes to show what putting your faith in chaos will bring you (unbelievably punctual milk)

 

And the house of pain is nothing compared to Hagars House of Ribs.

 

And was the wall running, or was the world just moving around it?

[DrMcCoy]

ray: exactly... mathe+physik lks!

 

and if you like messing with infinities, you should consider reading this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156858198X/qid=1085470445/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/102-8495202-1463360?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

it's completely insane, but funny though...