Hiroki Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Okay, this isn't really a debate, but a question about human evolution. Now PLEASE do not turn this into a Bible vs Evolution thread...I personally believe in the Bible, but I do like to know about Evolution. Its science fiction to me, just like Star Wars. So, my question is, what is the first known step that apes took twords being human? And then what about after that? And so on. I am not an expert, that is why I am asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Actually, I thought I made a very recent thread about this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 umm.....lol i already pissed of druid in his evo thread so i'll try not to do that here....but umm....approximately 4-5 million years ago (mya) fossils have been found depicting half upright, half all four traveling then their are several fossils found that show more advanced forms of walking until we get to the famous "lucy" fossil. lucy is important because her knees were able to lock upright, which is a bipedal characteristic only and signified that lucy was upright 99% of the time some fossils have been found in the oriental too, but i kinda forgot about when they got there (3-4 mya?) umm....then 2 of them split and one went north and lived through the ice age and one stayed in africa during an extreme drought ice age - although they survived the age, they could not become what is to be known as the modern human because of the constancy (sp?) of their lifestyle africa - had to be "creative" in the lifestyle in order to survive, so scientists associate this group as being the first humans umm.....the BBC has a video out called "walking with cavemen" that is very well filmed (IS graphic and would be rated NC-17 in the US) but that goes into more detail about what i just said above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 You think evolution is Sci-Fi, but we have proof of it. I think the Bible is myth, and theres no evidence proving me wrong... ...hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Fah, Kain, you could just let him believe it's science fiction, or at least answer his question. So, my question is, what is the first known step that apes took twords being human? And then what about after that? And so on. I am not an expert, that is why I am asking. Alright, you know how we're made of cells with DNA, right? And that bacteria evolve constantly, right? Well what happend in the start was that there were proteins growing in the ocean, which started to multiply. Then the proteins mutated naturally, giving them good traits or bad traits. The bad ones die off naturally, while the good ones made them able to have more offspring. This continues on and on, with traits being multiple levels of immunity, primitive thought, and multi-celluar organisms. Eventually this reaches a point so that we're created, as we have alot of traits that make us the top of the food chain. And we're evolving more and more everyday, too. Personally, I think that evolution and The Bible can go hand in hand as neither really contradict each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by --ZeeMan-- umm.....lol i already pissed of druid in his evo thread so i'll try not to do that here.... Lol hehe, not really, you didn't piss me off, I'm just embarassed that I got the wrong info. Originally posted by Tyrion Personally, I think that evolution and The Bible can go hand in hand as neither really contradict each other. Really? Doesn't the Bible state that err.. God created man? Doesn't Charles Darwin state that man came by evolution? IMO, this is a large enough contradiction. I feel that if one exists, the other cannot.. Something like a "Fight to the death" thing.. Yea yea I know I'm violent.. Originally posted by --ZeeMan-- then their are several fossils found that show more advanced forms of walking until we get to the famous "lucy" fossil. lucy is important because her knees were able to lock upright, which is a bipedal characteristic only and signified that lucy was upright 99% of the time some fossils have been found in the oriental too, but i kinda forgot about when they got there (3-4 mya?) umm....then 2 of them split and one went north and lived through the ice age and one stayed in africa during an extreme drought ice age - although they survived the age, they could not become what is to be known as the modern human because of the constancy (sp?) of their lifestyle africa - had to be "creative" in the lifestyle in order to survive, so scientists associate this group as being the first humans Ah, I've never heard of the "Lucy" fossil; could you elaborate please? Interesting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Bremen Really? Doesn't the Bible state that err.. God created man? Doesn't Charles Darwin state that man came by evolution? IMO, this is a large enough contradiction. I feel that if one exists, the other cannot.. Something like a "Fight to the death" thing.. Yea yea I know I'm violent.. Welll true- I don't mean the Darwin Evolution, although I do believe that. The Evolution I'm talking about is that organisms can grow and adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by Druid Bremen Ah, I've never heard of the "Lucy" fossil; could you elaborate please? Interesting.. ask and you shall receive: http://www.asu.edu/clas/iho/lucy.html and kain...just to be a jackass...but is there any evidence to prove you right either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I have to side with Tyrion this time around. No ammount of smartass "err..." will sway me on this. It's simple. If you believe in God, fair enough if you choose to ignore basic science. But if you believe in both,it means you can take sentences like"Doesn't the Bible state that err.. God created man? Doesn't Charles Darwin state that man came by evolution?" and wipe your prissy ass with it. Why? Because you can say God created evolution. But that's turning this thread into something it wasn't meant to be, isn't it? I have no answers other than those that pacify me. Take or leave them at your leasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 One, Evolution is not Science Fiction. Two, This is not a debate. Three, There are no stages. Man just developed slowly, as the time flowed and still is (into what???) Four, I'm outta here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by sabretooth One, Evolution is not Science Fiction. werd. Originally posted by sabretooth Two, This is not a debate. doesn't need to be, this is a forum for serious discussion AND debate. Originally posted by sabretooth Three, There are no stages. Man just developed slowly, as the time flowed and still is (into what???) Indeed. Originally posted by sabretooth Four, I'm outta here *insert smart ass statement here* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I'm no expert, but important "stages" included: - Opposable thumbs - allowing use of tools. - Standing upright - aided in viewing world around you, long distance travel - Eyes moving to the front - can't remember why this was important, but it was. - Diet. I can't remember the details, but something about our diet (cooked meat?) was what provided enough of the right stuff to allow our brains to grow. I think. But i think basically our main advantage was our adaptability. Many other species became specialists in one thing or another, but that kind of lead them down evolutionary dead ends from which they couldn't improve. I guess you could think of us like Humans in most RPGs.... flexible and good at everything, but not excellent at any one thing. Other creatures would have specialised in certain skill trees, but that would have blocked off others... meaning that they weren't flexible and could only do their speciality. If you look closely at humans we still have left over bits that we don't use, and bits that are highly inefficient. This also adds weight to the arguement that we eveolved, as if we were created "as is" then why would god do certain things so badly, or leave in bits we didn't need? And of course, humanity has grown taller in just the past few 100 years, kids inherit features of their parents, etc... big encarta article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 BBC WALKING WITH CAVEMEN web site... all your questions answered. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/cavemen/ fact files, 7 major stages as flash games, clips, etc.... Standing Tall, Food for Thought, Tooled Up, Fire Power, On the Hunt, Language, Imagination. bbc.co.uk.... probably the best website in the world. wish i worked there. sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by toms - Eyes moving to the front - can't remember why this was important, but it was. Predators have eyes in the front to hunt easier. Prey have eyes on the sides to look out for predators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Humans are still evolving. Given 5 generations, we will have evolved out of our pinky toe because its completly useless. We're also evolving out of our pinky finger, but that may take a bit longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted May 22, 2004 Author Share Posted May 22, 2004 What the hell Kain? I haven't noticed any lack of pinky toe or finger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Thats because its not 5 generations from now right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 5 generations? kinda short amount of time kain...only 250-300 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Bremen Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Make it the max, 500 years, and we still might not find any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 Where did you get this Kain? I do not see what they hurt, there would be no reason to get rid of them. Also, our pinky finger gives us a better grip. The pinky toe...alright, you have me there. I am not sure what it does. Edit: Oh, and acording to evolution, it would thousands of years ATLEAST for something like that to happen. Not hundreads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I watch Discovery all the time, and I recall hearing that a few months ago. And as for it taking 1000's of years; yea obviously. Of course, humans have been as is for many millenia, and as such we're in the process of removing what isn't needed; the pinky toe. Why is the pinky toe being removed? It doesn't help for anything. The weight shifts to the inside of the foot when walking and standing. Its just a worthless apendage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MennoniteHobbit Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 I believe in the adaptation part of evolution... I mean, humans have had to adapt to our environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 It all began down in Africa a long, long time ago. Climate changes and tectonic movements (you do believe in those, no?) forced our common ape-ancestor out of his cozy little forest and on to the steppes. Because they'd have to walk a whole lot, they gradually evolved longer legs and a more upright posture (which is ideal for that sort of movement), and because they had to stick together against common enemies, our already smart ancestors grew bigger brains and learned to hunt in packs etc. They "soon" (soon meaning a few million years) spread upwards and outwards, claiming new territory, but they were never able to live in their old forests - they had gotten so estranged to their forest-dwelling cousins that they could no longer breed with them. And thus, the tale of humanity began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 Well, I can see why the pinky toe might not really be useful for anything much, but not the pinky finger. If we lost our pinky finger, how would British Royalty drink there tea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiroki Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Okay, I was reading up a bit on something, and came across: Homo Erectus. But I heared that Homo Erectus also came from something that was very humanish, can somone clear this up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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