Republicans Come here

[El Sitherino]

"what is the point of your atheistic feable life according to atheism? that when you die ,there is no point ,your dead and all the things yu did in this life had no meaning now that your dead in the ground "

not true, If you do truely great things with your life they have made an impact on someone. Having a child definitely has an impact on the world and your life does have meaning.

 

"theres no point for you ever existing, techincally ,no matter what yu say ,there really is no point to atheism ,its to live this 100 years on this earth ,what to have a little fun and then die ,whats the point? "

not true, I'm here to continue my species survival. I'm here to just ... live. I choose to be happy about things, I'm not some sad, depressed, gloomy "god-less" person, I'm a happy, god-less person. I don't care if I have fun. I do care if others have fun. I want others to be happy.

 

"at least i have something to fall back on ,my God . all of the things i said here are from an atheistic point of view they are not my opinion."

 

everything you said is from a mock atheist point of view, what you think atheists are like. I respect that you fall back on God. But he's not your God, is supposed to be everyones . Also, just because we don't accept your use of god as a fact doesn't mean we don't accept your beliefs. We're just tired of you throwing them at us, and bombarding us with them.

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by yaebginn

no, because there is a good possibiliy that the sperm wont make it, with a fetus, its already definite.

not true. Also should a mother have a miscarriage would you hold her responsible for criminally neglegant homicide, because she didn't check to make sure there wasn't something on the stairs to make her slip and fall, or such as that?

[reelguy227]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

 

everything you said is from a mock atheist point of view, what you think atheists are like. I respect that you fall back on God. But he's not your God, is supposed to be everyones . Also, just because we don't accept your use of god as a fact doesn't mean we don't accept your beliefs. We're just tired of you throwing them at us, and bombarding us with them.

 

i never was bombarding u with them ,u were making feel like crap saying my God isnt real and stuff and so i retaliated thats all.

[El Sitherino]

noone said your god isn't real, we were saying the shroud was fake. but I will say now, I find the possiblity of a god to be .01%

[reelguy227]

the shroud aint fake ,thats what i believe ,yu believe God isnt real ,i believe the shroud aint fake ,so shutup about all this stuff ,its never going to get resolved!!!!!!

[Kuuki]

"God is an imaginary friend for adults." - Morgan Freeman, the Big Bounce

[reelguy227]

Whats the point of atheism?

[El Sitherino]

To live life to the best you can. To be happy, and to allow others to be happy.

 

or atleast I think that's what it is. I'm agnostic/buddhist/humanist. And that's pretty much my point to life is to make others happy and to be happy myself.

[Kuuki]

otherwise if one's any better

 

be buddhist or shinto

[reelguy227]

Originally posted by InsaneSith

To live life to the best you can. To be happy, and to allow others to be happy.

 

or atleast I think that's what it is. I'm agnostic/buddhist/humanist. And that's pretty much my point to life is to make others happy and to be happy myself.

 

but still ,whats the point ?yu live and then yu die ,whoopdie doo .

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by reelguythe shroud aint fake ,thats what i believe ,yu believe God isnt real ,i believe the shroud aint fake ,so shutup about all this stuff ,its never going to get resolved!!!!!!

 

The earliest written record of the shroud is a bishop's report to Pope Clement VII in 1389 (Nickell, 1987). The report stated that the shroud began as faith-healing scheme with pretended miracles being staged to defraud gullible pilgrims. The bishop even stated in the report that a predecessor of his had "discovered the fraud" and that the truth had been "attested by the one that painted it."

 

The shroud's cloth is of a complex herringbone twill weave was not in use during the first century, but was common in medieval times.

 

Walter McCrone, a world-renowned serologist tested the "blood" and found none of the properties of blood (hemoglobin, identifiable type, protein, etc.), but instead found that the stain contained red ochre and vermilion tempera paint (McCrone, 1999).

 

If I were catholic (my wife is), I'd be pissed at anyone who tried to pass this off as proof of divinity.

 

Originally posted by reelguy

Whats the point of atheism?

 

Why would atheism have a point? It's not a belief, but rather a lack of it.

 

references

 

McCrone, Walter (1999). Judgment Day for the Shroud of Turin. New York: Prometheus Books

 

Nickell, Joe (1987). Inquest on the Shroud of Turin. New York:Prometheus Books

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by reelguy227

but still ,whats the point ?yu live and then yu die ,whoopdie doo .

you say that as though it's a bad thing. Besides, noone lives forever. You just live life to the fullest and try to make a lasting (happy) impression. Do something with your life.

[jack "odc" one.]

Originally posted by yaebginn

1. everyone is younger than someone else. you are either a young man or an old man, take whicher is given to you. and youth is also maturity, not only age

2. the dictionary says obey is to carry out the command of. nothing about blindly. basically, to do what you are told.

3. I understand what you mean now, it all depends on what dictionary we're using.

4. I am a christian, but I do sin. I dont think this is one of them. I want to see justice done. I dont want to dance while you suffer, but I would like to see justice done. but now that it seems we were using a definition of obey, you probably wont get burnt by your views, since they are almost identical to mine, in the obeying sense.

1. It wasn't me, talking about "youth" and "rebelling". Don't try to slip out like that now, just because you couldnt make a "hit" with it. Of course everyone is younger or older than someone else. That is rather pointless and has nothing to do with yor statement. And of course it's not only about the age but also about maturity. But maturity usually comes with/through experience and knowledge which usually comes with the "age".

 

2. Correct. But it says nowhere that i can't think about the "commands" i am given and life is not about following orders, it is about COOPERATION, what of course, implies up to a certain point, a structure of command and "obeying". But this is not the obeying what you were talking to the begin of.

 

3. I'm not using a particular dictionary here. It's my own thoughts and views on things. But basically, yes.

 

4. I know that you like to think you are all sinners, but isn't the point to try NOT TO SIN. Especially not on purpose? And thins sounds like sinning on purpose, sinning to have fun out of it. Is that the point of your religion?

 

reelguy227:

Yes, you live and then you die, what else, please? And why should/must there be something else? And why is it such a "strange thought" to you? Why is it so hard to accept that there are people thinking otherwise?

[yaebginn]

1. How exactly am I trying to slip out of my statement. You could be older than me, for all I know, but the level of maturity that you have shown reflect prety badly on you.

2. And what form of obeying was I talking about. From what you have recently siad, we just have a different defintion of obeying.

4. I didnt fully understand what you just wrote. But I'll answer best I can. We are taught to do good. We slip up, everyone does, save for Jesus. and I do like to see justice done. It is a good feeling to see that that person may have l;earned a lesson, or to be proved right. I sin, alot. But this is not one of those sins.

[jack "odc" one.]

1. Now you are saying i am immature? No wait. You said "ahh, the youth" and meant i am immature. Listen, i am old enough to have a own home, a woman on my side and a lovely kid. I don't think i got a hold of the whole experience and knowledge of the world yet, but i am surely not immature. And it is surely not immature if you think for yourself and not live your life obeying to someone all the time. So how exactly should i have shown a bad reflecting level of maturity? Because i stated my opinion and showed that i have different views? And i thought we were over this point already.

 

2. Maybe i was reading something into it. I'm not even sure what. Basically everything is said. Obeying is doing what you are told. I don't think our definitions differ much at this point. Only our views of the how may differ. If (for example) my boss wants me to do something, then i do it because it's my job. This is, of course a form of obeying. The point is he mainly tells me what's the result he'd like to see. What i am doing for the result is my part of the story. Of course there are tasks of what's to do and so on. But the thing is, and that is the point where i dont just "obey", that i can question his "requests" in form of suggestions, which are/must be of course, reasonable. Those reasons can be a simple information that i got but not my boss. So of course i obey in a form that i do my job as good as possible, but don't simply obey in the form that i am "just" doing what i am told.

 

4. Of course "we slip". My point is if you follow a religion, isn't it a big goal TO AVOID the sins which are "defined" in this religion? So how can you say you sin a lot? Aren't you afraid to go to hell? Or do you feel so safe because you believe in god? Why are there sins then, if it doesnt matters if i sin or not just because of my faith? What's with the whole "abortion=murder=sin" debate then? Isn't it pretty pointless, because one could say "OK, i did it, it is a sin, but hey i believe in god, i come to heaven anyways?

I always thought people are following a religion to be a good guy and to keep sins at a minimum and not to just believe and to say "Hey. We slip. Everybody does. I sin alot. But you go to hell, i don't because of my faith."

I see a big question mark here.

[SkinWalker]

I think the whole "obey" argument between you two guys has to do with the religious idea of "submission."

 

Both the Q'uran and the Bible talk of submission as an ideal:

 

there is only one religion acceptable to God - "Submission" - Quran 3:19, 85

 

Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you - James 4:7

 

In the religious context, the definition of submission includes "compliance -- (the act of submitting; usually surrendering power to another); the condition of having submitted to control by someone or something else; "his submission to the will of God" "

 

That's not to say that chrisitianity and islam are the only religions that require or expect submission, however. Religions of the World (2nd edition, 1988) notes as a characteristic common to most if not all relgions the requirement of total organization of life based upon a worldview, often entailing extensive personal commitment and sacrifice.

 

I think that the difference between the two of you is that Jack is "submitting (obeying)" an inner-authority, while Yaeb believes in a higher authority. The irony is that regardless of your worldview, the end result is the same: those that embrace the "higher" authority believe that righteousness and faith are the way to salvation and necessary to enter an "afterlife"; those that reject the "higher" authority believe that righteous acts and altruism are human qualities and are necessary to be human and to live now.

 

The end result is often the same unless righteousness becomes confused with selfish gain.

[yaebginn]

1. Its all on the way you said it. The way we view obeying must differ, because you see it as blindly following, I see it as doing what you are told. (you can do understand what it is you are doing nad still obey) and the way you stated it sounded very immature like, 'I dont have to do what I'm told' which once again goes back to how we defne obey.

2.we are more or less in agreement here.

4. We do are best not to sin. We do slip up, because we are not perfect. But we try not to sin because for one, it is easier to mess up. I gotta run to the store right quick, but I'll continue this thing when I get back.

EDIT- back. alright, sin is seperation from God. God cannot be with sin, which is why God left Jesus at the cross. And if we continually sin, and are living in sin, then we are gradually being seperated from God, and sin will seem less serious. Also there's somethings in Heaven, like if we do goodon Earth, we will get more in Heaven. But heaven is more or less a mystery to me.

[jack "odc" one.]

1. Hmm. OK. Maybe i said it in the context of "I don't have to blindly do what i am told." and it didn't came across like that and this may have sounded indeed immature.

 

SkinWalker made a very good point to that, too.

 

4.

And if we continually sin, and are living in sin, then we are gradually being seperated from God, and sin will seem less serious.

I read here something like "If you steal cars every day, you get used to it and stop thinking about it might be wrong to take foreign property."

i think there is nothig wrong with this statement, although you can get used to everything, that's basically what made us so "successful" as species.

 

Also there's somethings in Heaven, like if we do goodon Earth, we will get more in Heaven. But heaven is more or less a mystery to me.

Like InsaneSith said, if i do good during my life, it might last longer than myself. That's basically what i think heaven is meant to be, my life had an positve influence on the world - the results of my deeds are still in peoples mind - in a positve way. And the more influence it had, the more people will know me and the longer my 'name' will last.

Analogue to that there is the opposite, hell. If i did bad things people will remember me, too, BUT in a bad context.

Either way humans can learn from it regardless if good or bad.

And wether it's good or bad is not simply chosen by any instances, it's more really about the results of what i have done in my life. The thing is, there are so many people on this earth by now, that it's quite impossible to know everyones deeds and so they cannot stay in "human memory" as good or bad people. It just cannot work this way anymore. Or there must be something third "between heaven and hell" for those "unknown" people, which just die and "give their matter back" as SkinWalker said before. However, i like to interprete it that way.

[yaebginn]

4. Sin is seperation from God. Lemme explain it better. Why do (or did) you listen to your parents?

[El Sitherino]

because I can see them, and I can recognize their authority.

[yaebginn]

but why, what would happne if you didnt?

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by yaebginn

but why, what would happne if you didnt?

 

They would be disappointed in me, and lose their respect that they hold for me. I listen to them because they have always been wise and shown me respect, not to MENTION the fact that they have provided for me in every way of my life.

[yaebginn]

same with why I obey God.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by yaebginn

4. Sin is seperation from God. Lemme explain it better. Why do (or did) you listen to your parents?

 

Status. The one true common goal of all people. Parents can offer a form of status and acceptance that cannot be found with others, therefore we strive not to disappoint or let them down.

 

In later years, as we become adults, we need that same fullfillment of status and turn to various places: peers, society, employers, religion, etc.

 

There are those that hypothesize that "god" is but a replacement of the "parent," who seems to a child as omniscent and omnipresent and provides reward and punishment for good and bad deeds as appropriate.

 

But everyone seeks some form of status or peer acceptance, regardless of religious belief.

[yaebginn]

and if we obey God and be a good person , then we get more important duties in Heaven. I am not exactly sure on everything about heaven, because its in the future.