SkinWalker Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Thats what I was led to believe. It may just be speculation, or maybe its in the Bible, I cant remember. IMO, your just dissapointed that I have something to counter your status speech. But imagine God like a good parent, find out why you obey your parents, and unless its for some warped reason, thats why I obey God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 No, your counter is superfluous. I respect my parents becasue of the respect that is in turn given back to me, and the things that I can see them doing for me. I would not have the respect for my parents if they would never even TALK to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegis Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 yaeb you're wrong, they're right. That point you see is fake, its holding a carrot in front of you, let it drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior No, your counter is superfluous. I respect my parents becasue of the respect that is in turn given back to me, and the things that I can see them doing for me. I would not have the respect for my parents if they would never even TALK to me. ditto. Besides your comparison of god and parents is crap. Unless your parents are omnipotent it's very different, I can believe in parents because I can see them, and I can recognize their "power". God is supposedly an all powerful being with absolutely no flaws, this in itself is hardly reasonable. Also, what kind of loving parent never shows themself to their kid? If there is a god, he's a deadbeat dad. I demand my child support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by ET Warrior No, your counter is superfluous. I respect my parents becasue of the respect that is in turn given back to me, and the things that I can see them doing for me. I would not have the respect for my parents if they would never even TALK to me. God does talk to me, and he does show himself to me. But in different ways that just physically. In order to hear, you must listen. If you dont think he exists, then when he does show himself to you, you wont see him, or recognise him as God. And why is it different just because he is omnipotent? He is a parent to all, even if you dont believe in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 When I was really little I thought God talked to me. I'd ask him questions and I'd hear the answers in my head. It took me awhile to figure out that was myself thinking answers to my own questions. I learned it was me when I started asking questions that I didn't know the answers to, and God never responded When I was older I wanted him to talk to me, and I wanted to be able to see him, and so I tried and I tried. But never once have I had an experience where I said I truly felt as though I had seen/heard God. And that's when I was a firm believer. I want to know what God SAYS to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack "odc" one. Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn 4. Sin is seperation from God. Lemme explain it better. Why do (or did) you listen to your parents? I already explained why i listen to my mom or dad. And i cannot say that (a) god gave me love, feeded me, gave me clothes or tought me things, to name only a few points. Your parents have an active influence on you, they are the ones that (should) tell you what's going on, what's right or wrong, how things work. Your parents lead you on your way into life. I don't think you can really compare "real persons" like them to a higher being (assumed "he" is like this). God or religion may "give" you advice or a guidline in whatever situation of your life, but your parents care for you (well, most parents do) they can help you in an active way. God won't. But yeabginn, that wasn't my question or point i tried to make. So why do you switch topics again, let's stick to one until we finish it, so what do you think of my "interpretation" of heaven? I think it's more that you have to offer. But yes i know, it's probably only a theory, like all the others including yours and that of your religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 But if you convince yourself that your parents dont exist, I mean truly convinve yourself, then to you, they wont exist, same with God. only its easier, since you dont see him. God says alot of things to me, he offers me council when I am angry, he urges me to do the right thing. He told me that one of my friends wasnt going to Heave, yet. So I led him to christ. and I think, jack, that your view of heaven is wrong. I dont know exactly what heaven is, but it is eternal fellowship with God, and I dont know exactly what else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 No, even if I truly convinced myself of their non-existance, the minute I saw them again I would be forced to concede that they DO in fact exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 "Can You Prove God Exists? Before we answer this question, we must distinguish five questions that are often confused. * First, there is the question of whether something exists or not. A thing can exist whether we know it or not. * Second, there is the question of whether we know it exists. (To answer this question affirmatively is to presuppose that the first question is answered affirmatively, of course; though a thing can exist without our knowing it, we cannot know it exists unless it exists.) * Third, there is the question of whether we have a reason for our knowledge. We can know some things without being able to lead others to that knowledge by reasons. Many Christians think God's existence is like that. * Fourth, there is the question of whether this reason, if it exists, amounts to a proof. Most reasons do not. Most of the reasons we give for what we believe amount to probabilities, not proofs. For instance, the building you sit in may collapse in one minute, but the reliability of the contractor and the construction materials is a good reason for thinking that very improbable. * Fifth, if there is a proof, is it a scientific proof, a proof by the scientific method, i.e., by experiment, observation, and measurement? Philosophical proofs can be good proofs, but they do not have to be scientific proofs. I believe we can answer yes to the first four of these questions about the existence of God but not to the fifth. God exists, we can know that, we can give reasons, and those reasons amount to proof, but not scientific proof, except in an unusually broad sense. There are many arguments for God's existence, but most of them have the same logical structure, which is the basic structure of any deductive argument. First, there is a major premise, or general principle. Then, a minor premise states some particular data in our experience that come under that principle. Finally, the conclusion follows from applying the general principle to the particular case. In each case the conclusion is that God exists, but the premises of the different arguments are different. The arguments are like roads, from different starting points, all aiming at the same goal of God. In subsequent essays we will explore the arguments from cause and effect, from conscience, from history, and from Pascal's Wager." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack "odc" one. Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn But if you convince yourself that your parents dont exist, I mean truly convinve yourself, then to you, they wont exist, same with God. But i thought god exist? So why should i try to convince myself that my parents do not exist? God says alot of things to me, he offers me council when I am angry, he urges me to do the right thing. How can you sin then? And what if it's your inner voice talking to you, your "inner sense" for right and wrong? and I think, jack, that your view of heaven is wrong. I dont know exactly what heaven is, but it is eternal fellowship with God, and I dont know exactly what else. Of course it's my way to interprete it, i wouldn't claim it is right, either. It's just what i think to fit the "legend of heaven" into my view on things. And after all we both can be wrong and it's all complete different from what anybody has said or assumed in human history. And reelguy227, that came really from you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 no its not from me ,if yu notice its quoted at the beginning and the end of the document its from a Catholic author named Peter Kreeft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 But if you convinve urself that they are not ur parents, then they wont be to you. and sometimes, I act foolish and dont listen to God, so I mess up and sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack "odc" one. Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 Just like you cannot convince yourself that there is no god, i cannot convince myself that they are not my parents. Because they are. And again why should i do that? What would it "prove"? And why are you don't listening to god sometimes? Because you had a bad day or something? Or do you "just don't feel like doing so"? reelguy227: OK. Then tell me in your own words what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 10, 2004 Author Share Posted August 10, 2004 no, I sometimes dont listen to God because I act foolishly. Either its that I am so angry and my head is so clogged with anger that I dont hear listen for him, or that I think I know best anmd end up screwing up. Just because I am a christian doesnt mean I am perfect. I screw up, but each time I mess, up I learn to watch out for it. Like if I fallin a hole wheile not paying attention, after the fall, I'd watch my path more so I dont fall and get hurt anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 10, 2004 Share Posted August 10, 2004 in my own words ha,i just got three words : God is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Kreeft, Peter (2004). Can You Prove God Exists? Ignatius Press. Found on the web at: http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/gods-existence.htm And, actually, what Kreeft is saying is that "god is real becuase he has to be to explain that which we cannot explain." The supernatural has been invoked by man to explain the unexplainable for probably over 100,000 years. Lightning was once thought to be "bolts thrown by the gods." There are pre-axial (primitive) religions today that believe mountains are gods that need to be fed -if not, droughts can occur, El Nino not being an understood phenomenon. Wanting a god to exist doesn't make it so. By the way, it seems unlikely to me that there is only one god. Whatever force created it would be capable of creating more than one. Perhaps this is the origin of Elohim in the Pentateuch instead of El. "Elohim" is a plural form of the name of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 You cant prove God exists to those who dont want to believe. I'll read ur article in the morn, cuase its getting late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn IMO, your just dissapointed that I have something to counter your status speech. Actually I had just reached a point at which I realized that further debate would merely criticize your religion, which is something that I dislike doing unless provoked. I am an anthropologist, after all. Are you provoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 no one can create the God who created all ,its a mystery ,but its true ,u just dont want to believe it skin walker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 not necessarily, no. U r really an anthropologist? I thought u were taking classes on it. EDIT- and lets set a page to stop at, cause I can argue forever. I;m thinking either 15 or twenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by reelguy227 no one can create the God who created all Then where did God come from ? *Cue spooky music.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 he was just there. something had to be first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelguy227 Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn he was just there. something had to be first. you tell em yae ,yu tell em ,whoo hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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