Revan....Male or Female??

[Gavroche]

Revan is more interesting as a male, I think.

 

To continue Allronix's reflexion about the romances (I agree with what you say about Carth's one), I think both of the cases are as interesting.

 

There is a barrier to the relation in the tow romances :

Carth's vengence desire and his absence of confidence in the others in this side, and Bastila's Jedi Code and the fact she knows WHO she is falling in love for in the other side...

 

There is also the irony of the relation with both of them : Carth is a symbol of the Republic and Bastila is the key of war, the one who killed Revan (that's what say the Story before Revan reappears, everybody, even Malak, thought him dead).

And they don't just love this ex-Dark Lord, the ex-Dark Lord has reciprocal feelings !

 

So, there is a kind of parallelism in the two romances. But Bastila's redemption sounds more credible if she comes back because of her love for Revan.

There is a "traditional" side with Bastila's romance and redemption which disappear with a Female Revan.

 

 

Jolee's comparison to Sunrider fits a LOT better with a Female Revan, given Sunrider's situation.

 

Mmm, but when he tells his story with Nayama (who fell to the DS, ala Bastila), then you can hear a kind of fatalism or sadness in Jolee's voice when he and Revan are telling the others what happened in the Rakata Temple, because he has been in the same position that Revan before and knows that Bastila is too important to be spared if she doesn't want to come back to the LS, contrary at Nayama who has been spared.

[Totenkopf]

Quote:

Some Hutts are hermaphrodite; NJO's Borga the Hutt

 

 

 

*Wonders how Hutt's reproduce* *Shivers*

 

Does that mean a Hutt can take the expression "Go F*** yourself!" as some form of constructive criticism?

 

Also:

 

But the simplest answer is male chauvinism in Star Wars writers. They could never be threatened by a woman's power and instead resort to a females' powers of seduction to gain power. I guess women aren't seen as powerful enough to stand up to men. Like Traya against Nihilus and Sion. She had to be sneaky and treacherous to remove them both.

 

 

seems more likely a form of market bias as males tend to play VGs MUCH more than females (or so marketing gurus tell us).

[Jediphile]

But the simplest answer is male chauvinism in Star Wars writers. They could never be threatened by a woman's power and instead resort to a females' powers of seduction to gain power. I guess women aren't seen as powerful enough to stand up to men. Like Traya against Nihilus and Sion. She had to be sneaky and treacherous to remove them both.

 

seems more likely a form of market bias as males tend to play VGs MUCH more than females (or so marketing gurus tell us).

 

To the former - nonsense. The latter is where you find your answer. When the fanbase is predominantly male, is it then truly so strange that the writers actually take this into consideration and write accordingly? The major characters of Dragonlance were also male in spite of the primary author being a woman (Margaret Weis). Does that mean she's oppressed or something?

 

Honestly, it really annoys me that it is practically impossible to see male protagonists these days without hearing cries of chauvenism. It is chauvenism, but reversed, as in chauvenistic towards males, who are not allowed to fictional male characters in peace without sexist comments. (And that's not considering the possibility that many male writers are reluctant to write female characters, because they are then bashed for not writing them "correctly" or "fairly".)

 

I remember somebody on a board once accused me of sexism because I dared to say I thought Janeway (on Star Trek: Voyager) was a bad captain. Well, does the fact that Janeway was a woman preclude her from making bad decisions and so being a bad captain? The critics didn't even bother to consider the arguments offered against Janeway's abilities, which speaks volumes...

 

Sexism can certainly go both ways, neither of which is particularly endearing.

[MrVorlon]

To the former - nonsense. The latter is where you find your answer. When the fanbase is predominantly male, is it then truly so strange that the writers actually take this into consideration and write accordingly? The major characters of Dragonlance were also male in spite of the primary author being a woman (Margaret Weis). Does that mean she's oppressed or something?

 

Honestly, it really annoys me that it is practically impossible to see male protagonists these days without hearing cries of chauvenism. It is chauvenism, but reversed, as in chauvenistic towards males, who are not allowed to fictional male characters in peace without sexist comments. (And that's not considering the possibility that many male writers are reluctant to write female characters, because they are then bashed for not writing them "correctly" or "fairly".)

 

I remember somebody on a board once accused me of sexism because I dared to say I thought Janeway (on Star Trek: Voyager) was a bad captain. Well, does the fact that Janeway was a woman preclude her from making bad decisions and so being a bad captain? The critics didn't even bother to consider the arguments offered against Janeway's abilities, which speaks volumes...

 

Sexism can certainly go both ways, neither of which is particularly endearing.

Eh. Theory shot down in flames.

 

By they way, were you really angered by that? It was just a theory, not a belief. No reason to get annoyed by it. Just let it bounce off you.

 

The Janeway thing was dumb. She is a bad Captain. Unbelievable she became an Admiral. Plus she committed genocide against the Borg. Even Picard stopped short of doing that.

 

I'm partial to the men following testosterone thing. My lack of brain-listening and following my hormones gets me in trouble quite often.

[kata_mad]

But Bastila's redemption sounds more credible if she comes back because of her love for Revan.

There is a "traditional" side with Bastila's romance and redemption which disappear with a Female Revan.

 

This is the main reason I play male, as I too think it makes more sense for bastila to redeemed in this fashion.

[Jediphile]

^^^^ Besides, the irony of the great and all-powerful Revan having to humble himself and risk (not to mention humiliating) instant death at Bastila's hands in order to redeem her really appeals to me. Revan had to redeem her with his heart, while all his renowned power was useless.

[MrVorlon]

Quote:

seems more likely a form of market bias as males tend to play VGs MUCH more than females (or so marketing gurus tell us).

Even better than my own idea.

[Jediphile]

By they way, were you really angered by that? It was just a theory, not a belief. No reason to get annoyed by it. Just let it bounce off you.

 

I wasn't angered by what you said, but rather by how some people seem to take that sort of thinking to heart. And come on - you really can't deny me my chance to get up on my soapbox over it, can you?

 

The Janeway thing was dumb. She is a bad Captain. Unbelievable she became an Admiral. Plus she committed genocide against the Borg. Even Picard stopped short of doing that.

 

That's my point, too, to an extent. No male captain who made the sort of command decisions would EVER be admired, let alone promoted. Heck, I even lost a lot of respect for Sisko over some of his choices (though those were brave to do plotwise). But for Janeway it's different - she has to not only be excused, but also admired for it, and why? Because she's a woman... That's not right. I remember some guy once decided to hold a trial against Janeway for her transgressions on Trekweb. Hilarious. Not least because of all the people crawling out of the woodworks with really silly arguments in Janeway's favor, simply due to her gender, thus underscoring the point of the "trial"...

[Melly]

I think the main gripe with Revan being chosen LSM is that there are very few really strong female characters in Star Wars. Not other fandoms, just Star Wars. I mean I can only really think of three: Leia, Mara Jade, and Yssane Isard, compared to a slew of strong male characters seems a little pathetic. And that Revan, as a LSF, would have been a perfect chance to even the odds a little. A chance which LucasArts passed up.

 

I don't really care either way, what I do care is when fellow fans, in communties, much like this one, that "correct me" when I call Revan she or her, by saying: "Revan is LS male, it's canon, deal with it." Which is just plain wrong. Revan is whatever the heck I want her, him, it to be.

[Weed Master]

wow, seriously ppl its a game who cares whats canon and whats not.

[Totenkopf]

^^^^^

.......have you ever played KOTOR (TSL) on weed?!?

 

just paraphrasing John Stewarts charcter in Half Baked (in case anyone didn't get the joke).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allronix

Jolee's comparison to Sunrider fits a LOT better with a Female Revan, given Sunrider's situation.

 

 

Not so sure that holds up. As I understand it, Nomi was supposed to have become a jedi as an adult. Technically, so is Revan's alter ego. Like Nomi, Revan is a powerful force weilder (sp?). I don't think gender makes any difference in JB's assessment. No comparison is ever perfect. But as I've stated before, it's only a game, so whatever floats your boat (I still prefer male, LS/DS doesn't matter much to me. DS usually more fun).

[Jediphile]

Besides, if anyone in the "Tales of the Jedi" plots have powerful similarities to Revan, then it would seem to me to be Ulic rather than Nomi, since Nomi never made the mistake of arrogantly thinking one could embrace the dark side while resisting its corruption that both Ulic and Revan did.

[reven0123]

reven is male it has been confirmed ill hunt down the information that states he is and ill post the link to it some time this week and jediphile reven was not arrogant when it came to the darkside he made a sacrifice to save the galaxy to be its greatest saviour he would be its worse conquerer to be its greatest hero he would become its worse villian, im not ranting here just telling you what i think just as you did erm i cant think of anymore to say when i do ill post some more.

[Emperor Devon]

reven0123, whether LA says Revan is male or not is irrelevant... Any proof you might find doesn't matter, because Revan is whatever the player wants him/her/it to be. It's that simple.

[KPH2293]

I think the main gripe with Revan being chosen LSM is that there are very few really strong female characters in Star Wars. Not other fandoms, just Star Wars. I mean I can only really think of three: Leia, Mara Jade, and Yssane Isard, compared to a slew of strong male characters seems a little pathetic. And that Revan, as a LSF, would have been a perfect chance to even the odds a little. A chance which LucasArts passed up.

 

You left out Bastila and Padm'e. And if they did choose Revan to be an LSF, a larger number of people would've been angry with the decision, than they are now. Because from what I've seen, more people prefer a male Revan. (Including me) Basically, any one of the choices for what Revan is would've had controversy. To me, the choice they chose has the least amount of controversy.

 

Light side is normally always canon. And the majority of the time, they choose a male character for canonical continuity.

 

Revan: LSM

Exile: LSF

Jaden Korr: LSM

Rookie One: LSM

 

 

But Bastila's redemption sounds more credible if she comes back because of her love for Revan.

There is a "traditional" side with Bastila's romance and redemption which disappear with a Female Revan.

 

I agree. To me, the romance option is much better written, while the jedi code option is too generic. This is a method that is used to redeem minor characters. Like random Dark Jedi.

 

When the fanbase is predominantly male, is it then truly so strange that the writers actually take this into consideration and write accordingly?

 

I agree; it's not strange.

 

 

Honestly, it really annoys me that it is practically impossible to see male protagonists these days without hearing cries of chauvenism. It is chauvenism, but reversed, as in chauvenistic towards males, who are not allowed to fictional male characters in peace without sexist comments. (And that's not considering the possibility that many male writers are reluctant to write female characters, because they are then bashed for not writing them "correctly" or "fairly".)

 

I have to agree with this as well.

[Melly]

You left out Bastila and Padm'e.

Bastila is emotionally unstable (that's not to say she's nuts or anything, but she has a very undeveloped sense of self, which is why she was such an easy target for Malak). And Padme started out strong but when Anakin went to the DS she just gives up and dies. Sorry, I wouldn't call either of them a "strong female character".

 

And if they did choose Revan to be an LSF, a larger number of people would've been angry with the decision, than they are now. Because from what I've seen, more people prefer a male Revan. (Including me) Basically, any one of the choices for what Revan is would've had controversy. To me, the choice they chose has the least amount of controversy.

 

Actually that's not necessarily true. As I stated before the only reason that there are more votes for male Revan here is because the majority of female players do not post here, they post on KFM. Mostly to get away from being ridiculed for preferring to play as a girl. **gasp**

 

I've been ridiculed before, on this very board*, in my very first post actually, for referring to Revan as she. Which is simply a force of habit (I played Revan as a she the first time, and it stuck). Yet I rarely (if ever) see people get all bent out of shape when someone refers to the Exile or Revan as he. I get the feeling that the community has no idea how insensitive it can be at times to fellow KotORians. So sad.

 

(*and on other boards as well for saying I like the Carth romance, saying that I like female Revan better, heck even for liking Juhani and saying I wished her romance had been implemented. )

 

And thank you to Emperor Devon for his last post. It really doesn't matter what 'canon' says because no amount of LucasArts stating "Revan is male, Exile is female" is going to stop people from loading up a female Revan game or a Male Exile game.

[Jediphile]

Bastila is emotionally unstable (that's not to say she's nuts or anything, but she has a very undeveloped sense of self, which is why she was such an easy target for Malak). And Padme started out strong but when Anakin went to the DS she just gives up and dies. Sorry, I wouldn't call either of them a "strong female character".

 

Bastila is young and her youth shows at times. So what? I still consider her a stronger character than the Exile, who has been hiding from his past for a decade and still - as I see it - continues to acknowledge it throughout TSL. This might have been planned plotwise for a big revelation in KotOR3 (and I hope so, because otherwise the storytelling is, well, not so good), but it still doesn't paint a picture of a strong character.

 

As for Padme, I do think you're being a little hard in your evaluation of her. It's not just that Anakin fell to the dark side. No, Padme lost EVERYTHING she ever fought for, not just her beloved Anakin. Given how idealistic and compassionate she is about liberty and democracy, you do have take the fact that she had just seen her beloved republic fall into account. She didn't just lose her beloved husband. No, she lost her entire world. And I don't agree that she just gave up, either - Anakin sucked the life out of her in his anger, I think.

 

Actually that's not necessarily true. As I stated before the only reason that there are more votes for male Revan here is because the majority of female players do not post here, they post on KFM. Mostly to get away from being ridiculed for preferring to play as a girl. **gasp**

 

Nah, that tastes too much like the "silent majority" to me. And of course, the good thing about speaking up for the silent majority is that they never step up to correct you if you're wrong, since they are - after all - silent...

 

I've been ridiculed before, on this very board*, in my very first post actually, for referring to Revan as she.

 

Well, "the mother of fools is always pregnant", as the saying goes. "One born every minute." I hope you don't cast everybody who prefers a male Revan into that category, since that would include me, and I think it's pretty silly to redicule people for referring to a character with optional gender according the gender you prefer. I prefer a male Exile and will continue to refer the Exile as male, no matter what. Tell you what, I'll never "correct" you for referring to Revan as female, if you never "correct" me for referring to the Exile as male. Deal?

 

And thank you to Emperor Devon for his last post. It really doesn't matter what 'canon' says because no amount of LucasArts stating "Revan is male, Exile is female" is going to stop people from loading up a female Revan game or a Male Exile game.

 

Yes, that's pretty much it. It's one thing that LA has set canonical genders and alignments for Revan and Exile, but I don't think that should EVER apply to the games themselves. Revan's gender was optional even in TSL, so I want it to stay that way, even if Revan appears in KotOR3. Same with the Exile btw. I want to be able to set the Exile to male, since I liked the male Exile's story better.

[KPH2293]

Bastila is emotionally unstable (that's not to say she's nuts or anything, but she has a very undeveloped sense of self, which is why she was such an easy target for Malak).

 

One would need to be strong to resist torture (Force lightning) from a Sith Lord for a week, before giving in to the dark side.

 

Actually that's not necessarily true. As I stated before the only reason that there are more votes for male Revan here is because the majority of female players do not post here, they post on KFM. Mostly to get away from being ridiculed for preferring to play as a girl. **gasp**

 

I wasn't trying to ridicule you.

 

Pretty much every forum site involving this matter, has a majority favorite. For example:

 

Bioware: Divided, equal. (This site often has wars on this matter)

 

KFM: Female (I think most of the writers their prefer female. And this site does seem to be in the shadows. It managed to elude my notice, until someone pointed it out to me)

 

Here: Male

 

no amount of LucasArts stating "Revan is male, Exile is female" is going to stop people from loading up a female Revan game or a Male Exile game.

 

I agree, I doubt this is going to silence the players who don't agree with canon. One of the reasons I follow continuity is because I sometimes study Star Wars history in my spare time. Even though I do follow canonical continuity, I normally play both Revan and the Exile as LSM's.

[Emperor Devon]

Bastila is young and her youth shows at times. So what? I still consider her a stronger character than the Exile, who has been hiding from his past for a decade and still - as I see it - continues to acknowledge it throughout TSL.

 

My Exile openly accepted her past and considered it o be a glorious one, so I don't think KotOR III will have a plot twist specific to one alignment.

 

Nah, that tastes too much like the "silent majority" to me.

 

Have you been to KFM before, Jediphile? That place is full of fan fics about female Revans and Exiles, that greatly outnumber the male ones. And since the people who write the fics post at the KFM forums...

 

And thank you to Emperor Devon for his last post. It really doesn't matter what 'canon' says because no amount of LucasArts stating "Revan is male, Exile is female" is going to stop people from loading up a female Revan game or a Male Exile game.

 

Agreed! Why people care if LA thinks Revan is best as a LSM and the Exile as a LSF is beyond me. Even if the way I play those characters didn't disregard the "offical" way, it would still have no bearing.

[Melly]

Bastila is young and her youth shows at times. So what? I still consider her a stronger character than the Exile, who has been hiding from his past for a decade and still - as I see it - continues to acknowledge it throughout TSL. This might have been planned plotwise for a big revelation in KotOR3 (and I hope so, because otherwise the storytelling is, well, not so good), but it still doesn't paint a picture of a strong character.

Um, I never said the Exile was a strong character, female or not. I was talking about Revan would have made a nice addition to the few strong female characters in the Star Wars galaxy if they had made it canon (I'm not saying they should have, in fact I'm in the camp that it shoudn't have been made canon at all. However, if they had to do it I still considered in a missed opportunity.)

 

As for Padme, I do think you're being a little hard in your evaluation of her. It's not just that Anakin fell to the dark side. No, Padme lost EVERYTHING she ever fought for, not just her beloved Anakin. Given how idealistic and compassionate she is about liberty and democracy, you do have take the fact that she had just seen her beloved republic fall into account. She didn't just lose her beloved husband. No, she lost her entire world. And I don't agree that she just gave up, either - Anakin sucked the life out of her in his anger, I think.

Um, she could have lived and fought in the rebellion like Mon Mothma, Bail Organa or Garm Bel Iblis, and stood up to the tyranny that was to come, like she did when the Trade Federation attacked Naboo, but instead she gave up. Even the medic droid says she "lost the will to live". I'm beginning to think it was very out of character of Padme actually. Bad writing.

 

Nah, that tastes too much like the "silent majority" to me. And of course, the good thing about speaking up for the silent majority is that they never step up to correct you if you're wrong, since they are - after all - silent...

I suggest you check out the forums on KFM, they are anything but silent.

 

Tell you what, I'll never "correct" you for referring to Revan as female, if you never "correct" me for referring to the Exile as male. Deal?

Deal. I never would anyway. I only correct people when they talk like Revan being male is the only way to play the game. Anybody that says "Revan is only male, LucasArts said so." I WILL correct them by saying, "Revan is either. As you can choose either at the character creation screen. If the character's were meant to be only male or female then they wouldn't have made it a choice." Same goes for the Exile being only female too.

 

Yes, that's pretty much it. It's one thing that LA has set canonical genders and alignments for Revan and Exile, but I don't think that should EVER apply to the games themselves. Revan's gender was optional even in TSL, so I want it to stay that way, even if Revan appears in KotOR3. Same with the Exile btw. I want to be able to set the Exile to male, since I liked the male Exile's story better.

If they don't they are going to lose a HUGE fanbase. All the ladies, and not a few of the men, are going to be seriously hacked off if the "canonical" genders are forced on them.

 

 

Yoshi626, I know you weren't ridiculing me. I was talking about other things that have happened before mostly on the Bio Boards, in the Onasi Order thread where other players would come in an ridicule us about liking and talking about Dustil, Carth and their relation to Revan. These things along with senseless character bashing (which is strictly forbidden on KFM) drove many of the ladies that posted on BioWare to KFM.

 

Anyway, I think you and I had a recent discussion over there about the advantages/disadvantages of the Bastila vs. Carth romances. A'ja'la here.

[reven0123]

reven0123, whether LA says Revan is male or not is irrelevant... Any proof you might find doesn't matter, because Revan is whatever the player wants him/her/it to be. It's that simple.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revan#_note-LFL

 

ive found the info and that picture youve got linked in youre sig emperor devon is sick and twisted its gonna give me knightmares for a week now thanks!

[Emperor Devon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revan#_note-LFL

 

Er, why did you give me a link to some canonical proof when I said that has no bearing in the way you want Revan to be?

[Totenkopf]

I can only guess that the point of citing canon is to say that anything else is wrong.. nyah, nyah,nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah. ;^/ But seriously, what difference does it really make how you play your PC?!?!?! Pardon the heresy here, IT'S JUST A GAME. WILL YOU GET A LIFE PEOPLE!! (sorry, had a Shatner moment there....)

 

PS: for anyone that doesn't get the joke, William Shatner did a priceless bit on SNL years ago about excessive fan devotion. If you get the chance, take a look.

[KPH2293]

 

Anyway, I think you and I had a recent discussion over there about the advantages/disadvantages of the Bastila vs. Carth romances. A'ja'la here.

 

Jeez, I'm an idiot. I should have recognized the Bao-Dur fanship. Though this now makes me suspect that their are some more Bioware posters here. So if you post on Bioware, speak up now!

 

 

If they don't they are going to lose a HUGE fanbase. All the ladies, and not a few of the men, are going to be seriously hacked off if the "canonical" genders are forced on them.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they did. They did this for that jedi academy game. I can think of 2 reasons why they would do this:

 

1. Canonical storyline

 

2. It might make the KotOR 3 story easier to make, if it revolves around Revan, and your not playing as him

 

Query: Did Revan have a canonical gender and alignment, when KotOR 2 was made? A question I hope someone can answer, cause I don't know.

 

I was talking about Revan would have made a nice addition to the few strong female characters in the Star Wars galaxy if they had made it canon

 

Maybe, but I still think Revan's better as an LSM. And here are a few reasons why:

 

1. Regardless of what gender you choose, people still think Revan's gender is male. I mean, shouldn't the galaxy know what gender a famous figure is?

 

2. I like the Bastila romance, better than the Carth romance. (Though this is no surprise to you, considering how many times I have said this in the Bioware forums) And as Gavroche said: "Bastila's redemption sounds more credible if she comes back because of her love for Revan." And I think the Jedi code idea is weird, because its also used to redeem minor characters.

 

3. KotOR 2 makes more sense to me. here's why:

 

If you choose Dark side Revan, either gender: Revan could have took over the galaxy, and then fought the true Sith. Rather than fight it on his own, and leave his empire to die. He could have beaten the true Sith with these factors:

 

His apprentice's (Bastila) battle meditation

 

The Star forge supplies his fleet with endless ships

 

Basically, choosing Revan as dark side (Either gender) in KotOR 2, makes the story completely illogical (IMO).

 

If you choose Light side female Revan: Bastila doesn't make one appearance, and it never mentions what happened to her. Therefore, it cuts out one of the 3 main KotOR characters. This implies she was either killed on the Star forge, or a plot hole.

 

(I'm not saying they should have, in fact I'm in the camp that it shoudn't have been made canon at all. However, if they had to do it I still considered in a missed opportunity.)

 

I think they had to make it canon. KotOR has a very good story, and it deserves to be in the star wars histories. As for Revan, they had to give him a canonical gender and alignment. It would be weird to read a book that never mentions the main characters gender or alignment. I would be really annoyed to read a book that says something like "Revan grabbed Revans lightsaber, and attacked Revan's enemies" I mean come on, doesn't that sentence sound stupid to anyone else? And it would be even worse if they called him "it". Because that would be creepy.

 

Er, why did you give me a link to some canonical proof when I said that has no bearing in the way you want Revan to be?

 

I believe he wanted to prove that Revan is canonically Light side male. That, he accomplished.

[SithRevan]

Query: Did Revan have a canonical gender and alignment, when KotOR 2 was made? A question I hope someone can answer, cause I don't know.

The answer to your question is nobody knows if revan had a specific gender that he/she was supposed to play and also I think that LS female romance was better in K1 because carth goes a little deeper with a female character than bastila does with the male character. Though that is just my opinion!

 

Example: Carth I think in one of the cutscenes asks revan to marry him or so I have heard he does anyway.