The War in Iraq

[Ray Jones]

it's funny how you support war.

 

 

however.. i dont think war is a solution, but i also think saddam was "no solution" either. he's done his **** long enough. on the other hand.. he'd died sooner or later. the problem "saddam" would have been solved on it's own.

 

and consequently there would be many others to "take care of". but it's plain wrong to fight all evil little men with bombs and troops..

 

violence does not solve problems.

[VanLingo]

First of all, ET Warrior, you better not have sent peaches! You see, canned peaches contain sugar additives that are VERY bad for soldiers in the heat of Iraq.

It's quite obvious that you only said that because I did. The only I reason I said "peaches" was because it was the first thing that came to my mind. Please don't lie to make yourself look better.

 

Second, YES! Send a letter to a random soldier! Heck, women VOLUNTEERED (that's a taboo word nowadays in this country, especially with the liberal media twisting every charity around) during the World Wars.

If you're having trouble finding a way to do this (God forbid you actually make an effort), here's a link: http://www.defendamerica.mil/nmam.html. Or you can visit your local church and drop a letter. I'm sure they won't mind spending a couple of bucks on stamps to say "thank you".

 

PenzerTekk -- Bush is a Facist, huh? I suppose that the majority of voters which elected him are as well.

I have a solution: LEAVE THIS COUNTRY.

You say that we were never in any real danger -- tell that to the families and friends of THESE PEOPLE. << This is a list of the victims from the September 11, 2001 attacks. I dare you to say that they died for a good reason and knowing that they would perish.

Finally, if a draft comes my way, I will be proud to serve and defend my country. I am not in the least worried about it. The same can be said for any other real, red-blooded, patriotic American (which are the only people that should be living here).

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by VanLingo

First of all, ET Warrior, you better not have sent peaches! You see, canned peaches contain sugar additives that are VERY bad for soldiers in the heat of Iraq.

 

Jesus, now I'm a terrible person because I sent peaches? Fine, i'll just pretend I haven't done anything to help them, because I'm obviously a liar, and you're obviously right. I'll probably burn in hell.

 

I dont particualrly trust you. IMO

And I personally don't care if you trust me. I did what I did, and it would be pointless for me to make it up.

 

 

And as for sending a random letter....I'm sure that'd be swell. Dear random soldier, Thanks for fighting in a war I don't believe in, our government sure is a bunch of pricks for making you lay your life on the line for something so pointless. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

The same can be said for any other real, red-blooded, patriotic American (which are the only people that should be living here).

Yeah, because you are only patriotic if you're willing to KILL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS for a government that doesn't even care about your own life. That makes sense

[Azurik12x]

haha i laugh at people who say war in iraq is bad. if its so bad why dont we just let the terrorist come to america and kill us all? thats what will happen if Kerry is elected. he will pull out all the soldiers and then osama and his friends will blow us up.

[boranchistanger]

Bush is a fascist.

A ferkin greedy warmongering fascist and if he gets elected again you better bet that draft will be coming your way, then you try and defend that ass and his sole desire to get in the history books.( Does everyone just forget that he ignored the UN and told them to SHOVE IT. In that aspect he's as bad as saddam for ignoring UN rulings on weapons etc)

 

He did? What UN rulings did he break? There are no UN Resolutions condeming US action and the US was actually defending the 14 OTHER RESOLUTIONS THE UN FAILED TO BACK UP!

 

And you seriosuly believe that is why Bush did this, to get into history? Give me a break. I huess that is why Roosavelt sent troops to Europe and the Pacific, or when Truman sent troops to Korea? How about when Wilson sent troops to Europe for no stinking reason in 1917 to save the "democratic" nations of Europe. And there is no need for the draft, casualties have been too low for a draft. A draft would also screw any Republican running for office in 2008, so Bush wouldn't be that stupid.

 

And once again I would like to add that Bush cannot do anything without the approval of congress. over 75% of congress (Made up of Democrats and Republicans) approved military action and gave Bush the go-ahead. Without that then Bush couldn't do squat. And I assume the leaders of the 30+ countries who volunteered to join the coalition are also fascist? Give me a break. Only the coalition assembled for World Wars I, II and Gulf War 1 were larger than this one.

 

The US attempted to justify an invasion by saying that the US WAS threatened...you know...what with the whole "THEY GOT DA NUKES!" and all. If you FOOL the pppulation into believing they are in danger, they will support military action.

Hitler was not in supreme control of Germany though he had the LOTS Of power. He contacts the powers that be an informs them that german citizens are being oppressed and butchered in poland and that he has sent armed forces to free such citizens. The paper work is done yadda yadda. Hitler gets the reigns.

The people think it needs to be done... and support action,they were FOOLED.

Bush and his flunkies made it out that they NEEDED to go into Iraq so that weapons of mass destruction would not fall into terrorist hands..or...something along those lines.

People thought they were in danger...and that bad **** could go down....so...

JUSTIFICATION in the eyes of the blind propaganda poisoned populace.

 

Yep, I can think of a thousand time Bush, Blair and the leaders of almost every other country, including France Germany and Russia, said "THEY GOT DA NUKES!" Bush always included numerous other reasons in his speeches, the liberal media always just pointed to that.

 

And you forget also that the majority of the German people were against the war in 1939. They didn't believe the maniac who ruled over them like a dictator. In 1914, when Germany rightfully went to war for her self-defense, the populace was all for the war. In 1939 the populace was very against it. You just never hear about it because everyone who spoke out was shot in 1939!

 

And Hitler never said Germans were being prosecuted in Poland, he only said that Poland rightfully belonged to Germany, very different from Bush and Iraq. And as for propoganda, I do agree there has been a lot of propoganda. I mean, the Michael Moore film along with all the editorials in the newspapers making up "facts" and so forth. Man, the media has been pounding into our heads that Buishg is a Nazi and only went in for oil and that Iraq is a mess....

 

Oh, you mean propoganda for the war? All I can say is that I barely see Bush talking on TV once every 2 months. Every other day I hear Michael Moore and other liberal fanatics.

 

First of all, ET Warrior, you better not have sent peaches! You see, canned peaches contain sugar additives that are VERY bad for soldiers in the heat of Iraq.

It's quite obvious that you only said that because I did. The only I reason I said "peaches" was because it was the first thing that came to my mind. Please don't lie to make yourself look better.

 

Peaches are food, at least he sent something lol. I feel so bad that I haven't sent anything.

 

Finally, if a draft comes my way, I will be proud to serve and defend my country. I am not in the least worried about it. The same can be said for any other real, red-blooded, patriotic American (which are the only people that should be living here).

 

Same here when it comes for the draft. I would actually volunteer if there is a draft, that way I don't have to serve with people who have unwillingly been picked off the street.

 

But I disagree with your last part. People are allowed to disagree in this country and just because they do so doesn't make them un-American. Since I oppose our wars in Kosovo, Bosnia and Somalia does that make me un American? Since I disagree with the way the Afghan war has been executed does that mean I'm un-American? Of course it doesn't and I can't stand it when people say that.

 

And as for sending a random letter....I'm sure that'd be swell. Dear random soldier, Thanks for fighting in a war I don't believe in, our government sure is a bunch of pricks for making you lay your life on the line for something so pointless. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

Man, I bet that soldier would be overwhelmed by your support lol. I find it good to send letters, which I have done, do soldiers. Just thank them for what they did. Van lingo, please thank your friends for me for the great job they have done and for protecting this country. They are the true heroes.

 

Yeah, because you are only patriotic if you're willing to KILL OTHER HUMAN BEINGS for a government that doesn't even care about your own life. That makes sense

 

Yep, sounds like Bush alright. Oh wait, rather than trying to put us in misery and make the government even more powerful he actually cuts spending and lowers taxes big time! And he actually prevents drillers from mining off the coast of Florida. And he, oh my God, he actually goes after terrorists rather than allow them to stay as they are. How evil this man is, how eviiil.

 

-Boran

[Mike Windu]

Personally, I don't think the war in Iraq is good at all. But hey, we're there anyway, it's no use to try and prevent them now. I'd help the soldiers, even though I don't support the war.

 

Kudos to you ET. You said mostly what I wanted to say.

 

This "war on terror" propaganda was only meant to be for Osama.

 

Couple years later no Osama.

 

People start getting anxious.

 

Oh hey, I got an idea. Let's go into Iraq! It's perfect!

 

[cue spreading of lies here]

 

 

[PanzerTekk]

I would have bought the peaches/whatever can'd good and ate them. Charity begins at home.

 

I dont live in the US. THK GOD. I wouldn't lower myself to dwelling and by dwelling there support such a fuk'd up swill of a nation.

 

IF you are drafted you wont be defendig your country at all. You will be defending the foreign investments of a few suits and possibly dying for said investments. GO YOU!

I would go to war for my country for the right reasons. The right resons being an ideological war such as ww2. Its good that we will most likely never see something like that again. Just these selfish actiosnof expansion and investment

 

I will never trust or defend the actions and intentions of the US. It is an opportunist nation and throughout history they have proved this.

WW1 WW2. Hang out of the fight until absolutely necessary. The US did not want war with hitler....actually..they weren't even ready for war, but thats another topic.

And dont mess with me when it comes to WW2 history. Read past the damn books you were given in high school and you may find some answers.

If I wasn't a lazy bastard I'd post numerous passages.

 

Honestly...I dont blame you for being poisoned by the people who claim to lead you...its not your fault. Media rules your life and its just ratehr sad that you let it happen.

 

Nothing but a subtle fascist state.

Your country is out of whack.

I just hope I live long enough to see it fall apart.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by VanLingo

Judging by your attitude, I'd say you were French.

 

Alright! Your first baseless accusation and jump to conclusions about me was wrong, and yet you seem to have learned nothing. Well, maybe you'll get lucky and he WILL be french, otherwise you'll have to pull the OTHER foot out.

 

Yep, sounds like Bush alright. Oh wait, rather than trying to put us in misery and make the government even more powerful he actually cuts spending and lowers taxes big time!

 

Yeah! And then, after sending our troops to Afghanistan, he tried to slip in a combat pay cut! What a real swell fellow.

[VanLingo]

Hmm. And you accused us of believing propaganda...

 

I talked to my two Army friends about the pay cuts -- both say it's bull. I spoke with a former Navy SEAL yesterday -- same thing.

My grandfather served in Korea -- his pension is untouched.

 

If anyone is a victim of propaganda, it's you fellas.

 

Once again, the difference between us is: you'd rather sit in your demilitarized box and watch TV. I'll speak to real people who matter.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by VanLingo

you'd rather sit in your demilitarized box and watch TV.

 

That's fantastic! I don't watch TV!

 

 

 

Oh, and the paycuts didn't pass, because everyone realized that cutting their combat pay right after you start a war is pretty crap. So your military friends weren't affected by it.

 

I'm amazed you managed to talk to 4 different people about it in the 10 minutes between my post about it and your reply...you're quick.

[PanzerTekk]

I dont watch TV either.

And I'm also not french.

 

Really hard for you to believe that the US is not loved around the world isn't it?

 

I come to my conclusions on my own through research and digging. I dont go.." wow...a war with iraq...they MUST be doin bad things. I have faith in my president...after all...he's president...he wouldn't be president if he was an utter ass hat would he?....would...he?"

 

Just proves...

 

A: Something fishy go thim in power.

Or

B: The majority of your population are a bunch of hick retards who act out deliverance every tuesday with glee.

[VanLingo]

My inquiries were a response to another thread. There was a link to some videos that were about the alleged cuts. When you posted, it just happened to be something that I was already looking into.

[boranchistanger]

And you said the US had propoganda going on? LOL, just listen to you guys!

 

Before I get into Iraq I would like to address one quote.

 

I will never trust or defend the actions and intentions of the US. It is an opportunist nation and throughout history they have proved this.

WW1 WW2. Hang out of the fight until absolutely necessary. The US did not want war with hitler....actually..they weren't even ready for war, but thats another topic.

 

Are you Europeans that ignorant? You guys still don't understand that the US saved your guyses buttoxes twice in both wars. If it was not for US intervention in 1917 (An intervention that was unneccessary and against the wrong side) the German offensive in the west would of been decisively successful and the result would of been a German victory (Wouldn't that have been nice).

 

World War 2 was also an instance in which the US saved the European's buttoxes. In 1941 the Nazi invasion in the Soviet Union was being very successful while Rommel in Africa was being just as successful. In Africa Rommel's Afrika corps were completely overwhelming that nincompoo known as Montgomery. The Brits simply did not have the manpower nor the firepower to stop the Nazi war machine (Plus they were up against a genius).

 

So, US is attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941. US is now in the war. US troops are now coming to Europe, once again, in droves. US tanks are fully capable of matching Nazi Panzars and Patton is at least somewhat able to fight Rommel. So, the tide now turns in Africa (The key point of the war was here) forcing Hitler to draw away troops from the Eastern Front and therefor leading to the inevitable turning point at Stalingrad. From that moment on there was never any doubt that the Allies would win.

 

So, once again, I cannot stand the fact that Europeans hate America even though they saved their buttoxes 2 times in 2 wars. And I'm not even talking about after WW2. Ever heard of the Marshall plan? Ever heard of the reconstruction of Germany? Have you ever heard of the communist party of France (Which was stopped from gaining control of France thanks to US intervention)? Have you ever heard of the Cold War for God's sakes? Remember, if there ever was a war between USSR and US that the US forces would be once again doing the majority of the fighting in Europe?

 

OK, enough of that.

 

I dont live in the US. THK GOD. I wouldn't lower myself to dwelling and by dwelling there support such a fuk'd up swill of a nation.

 

OK, this "f'd up swill of a nation' has the world largest economy, has the world's most powerful army, is not Socialist like you Europeans, actually doesn't have a currupt government and the general welfare is phenominal. Besides that it has the best healthcare in the world, gthe most new technological innovations every year and is the protector of the free world.

 

Wow, what an f'd up country. Better than any of you European countries. Once again, complete propoganda by your governments.

 

Honestly...I dont blame you for being poisoned by the people who claim to lead you...its not your fault. Media rules your life and its just ratehr sad that you let it happen.

 

Alright! Now we got the media ruling our lives. So, since the media rules our lives then why aren't we all anti-war? Since you don't live in the US you obviously don't know that the media in this country is extremely liberal and left. Fox news is the only station which has a conservative bias on it. The libs got NBC, ABC, CBS, WB, MSNBC, CNBC, CNN and others.

 

And as for leader's propoganda. Like I said, I rarely ever hear Bush or any of his administration. You would have to watch CSpan to even possibly get a view of him. Once again, European propoganda you guys are getting.

 

Nothing but a subtle fascist state.

Your country is out of whack.

I just hope I live long enough to see it fall apart.

 

You know what Van Lingo, I would love to see this guy's face if the US falls apart. I would love to see his face when he suddenly realizes that his country is now defenselesss against its enemies. I would love to see his face when his country's economy falls apart because of no US to trade with. I would love to see his face when the reality comes in that the UN can't police the world like the US has been doing for 50 years. WOuldn't that be funny!

 

Yeah! And then, after sending our troops to Afghanistan, he tried to slip in a combat pay cut! What a real swell fellow.

 

Like Van Lingo said, it's bull. Talk to any soldier in the service right now and he will laugh if you ask him if he's got a paycheck cut. My Grandpa still recieves money from World War II and my uncle fvrom his Vietnam service. Their pensions have only increased, not decreased. Oh, and remember to, if there was a paycheck cut, congress would be the culprit, not the president.

 

I come to my conclusions on my own through research and digging. I dont go.." wow...a war with iraq...they MUST be doin bad things. I have faith in my president...after all...he's president...he wouldn't be president if he was an utter ass hat would he?....would...he?"

 

Wow! You have a disturbed mind. You are the most misguided fellow I have ever heard post on these forums! Tell me, why did we go into Iraq, why did the entire congress approve and indorse and vote on it? And how were we able to get over 30 countries in our coalition? I'm pretty curious to hear your response.

 

-Boran

[PanzerTekk]

(Oh by the way...not french or from any other european nation...keep at it bucko. i'm sure you can hit it sooner or later)

 

"Besides that it has the best healthcare in the world,"

 

bwahahahahahaha. If u have the money you mean. A socialist nation is way superior then your selfish capitalist BS. Dont even try. Just dont. INFACT...my country is fighting to keep our hospitals from being privatized like your BS health system. The way your system works.

If you cant pay..you are ****ed or have to pay what you can.

If you CAN pay..you get the royal treatment and are skirted infront.(brief)

Thats just wrong. Because you have more money does not mean you are more important.

wealth does not mean you are better and in need of faster medical attention over someone else who is just as sick as you.

 

ON TO WW2

And you know what...if the US had just kept up shipping goods to britain and the USSR... (which they eventually did after much begging and pleading from S.W churchill and stalin. Hell, it took them years to convince the US to open a 2nd front against hitler, but hey.....long topic..)...and decided to NEVER actually send troops..Hitler still would have lost. By the time the US was seeing action in Europe the fate of the war had been decided, as the USSR, the Red Army, mother russia had already started destroying germany across the Ost front. By the time the US enetered into it, it was a matter of who got what and how they could stop the communists from taking germany and hell..whatever else they wanted.(It was all about ideology and keeping communism down)

The US DID NOT win ww2. THE USSR did the deed and came out on top...how and why they collapsed years afterwards is irrelevant.)

They skirted in at the last minute to get the glory. Sure it was needed and appreciated , but IT was NOT a must.

 

whats this,..Patton vs Rommel..wtf are you goin on about here? The US had no military presence in africa (apart from its machinery sent to the british) until that campaign was all but over. Its funny...but the US's first military action in the EURO/Africa theatre of war was against...yes..THE FRENCH!@!...Wouldn't have guessed it would you. Vichy france....they landed on the shores of northern africa and were actually repelled in some cases by the honour bound french forces.(though they obviously swept over the units that were actually resisting in short order)

 

And I have said it to my friends and to others I talk to about the US....(my gf is actually american...sad but true)..I would be willing to tough out the collapse of the US and its ramifications world wide then to stomache this tripe they do to the world over and over. If sanity is not brought to the leadership of the US I fear for the world and what might happen.

 

 

Guess I'll address one last quote..

 

"general welfare is phenominal."

 

I assume you mean...like..the welfare system. You wanna know what else is Phenominal? The amount of people on it. Now thats BLOODY phenominal.

The US does not care about its population.....hell ..that would be socialist. HELL..that would make sense.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by boranchistanger

actually doesn't have a currupt government

 

Like Van Lingo said, it's bull. Talk to any soldier in the service right now and he will laugh if you ask him if he's got a paycheck cut.

 

To the first part of that quote...HA! HAHA! HAHAHA! Ever heard of a man named Richard Nixon? And that's only one of the FAMOUS incidents of government corruption. If you truly believe that ANY government of ANY nation isn't corrupt, you are more naive than even I gave you credit for.

 

As to the second part...

Originally posted by me

Yeah! And then, after sending our troops to Afghanistan, he tried to slip in a combat pay cut! What a real swell fellow.

 

TRIED, so they obviously DIDNT get a paycut. That doesn't change the fact that Bush WANTED them to get paid less than what they do for fighting in the war.

[boranchistanger]

Your lack of knowledge is extyremely disturbing. Ypou live in Canada, and Canada's government actually has forbiddon Fox news from being shown in Canada yet allows liberal CNN to be shown. You talk about government propoganda!

 

Canada has become almost as socialist as France and it is really unfortinate. You talk about the Canadian healthcare system yet your citizens scurry across the border whenever they need any major medical treatment. You know why? Because Canadian, along with other socialist country's, healthcare systems create aweful health treatment methods along with increadiably long waiting lines!

 

And you are increadiably wrong about the US healthcare system. Every citizen in the US has access to healthcare, the best in the world actually. You know why everyone does? Because of the good heartedness of others. That's right, people in the US actually help others. When a man in my city needed a $100,000 heart transplant he was able to get the money because of the good heart of others. We had a very nice fundraiser which got so much money that operations for others were paid for.

 

And most companies give there employees healthcare benefits anyway. Even assemply line workers get healthcare and it's a heck of alot bettyer than Canada's.

 

Now, time for a little economic lesson. The problem with Socialism is simply that people are not modivated to work. And that is why healthcare in Canada stinks so bad. Doctors don't have the incentive (Money) to do their work to the best of their ability and therefor do a really crappy job. Drug companies don't create new, innovative drugs simply because the government in Canada does everything possible to make the Drug Companies miserable and basically takes away any reward for the Drug companies work. Just think, would you invest all that time and money into making something if you get nothing for it? Most people won't. And that is why the Canadian Healthcare system SUCKS.

 

My favorite part about the Canadian system is that the government actually decides when you are sick and when they deem you "sick enough" for medical treatment you have to wait an eternity for treatment. So, by the time you get into the operating room your pretty much doomed.

 

And you know what...if the US had just kept up shipping goods to britain and the USSR... (which they eventually did after much begging and pleading from S.W churchill and stalin. Hell, it took them years to convince the US to open a 2nd front against hitler, but hey.....long topic..)...and decided to NEVER actually send troops..Hitler still would have lost.

 

Not true at all. You must be reading the Candian version of World War II. You state that the US never sent troops to Africa until it was practically over is highly incorrect. US casualties in Africa were far over 50,000, and that just doesn't happen when all the fighting there is over. And then you forget to achknowledge the US's main part in the invasion of Italy.

 

But besides that there is one key thing you are wrong about. You say that without US troops to allies still could have won the way they did. That is highly incorrect. Without US troops Britain was unable to do squat other than chill in their battleships, the army just wasn't large enough. This would of allowed Hitl;er to dedicate more troops on the eastern front. And even if the Russians were able to advance at the rate they did Germany still would have come out on top because they would of had time to fully inplement their rocket systems along with their fighter jets. This would of guaranteed air superiority and completely turned the tide of the war on all fronts. It was US led invasions of Italy and France which didn't give Hitler the time he needed to harness this technology. He only needed 2 months more after the war ended before these new weapons could be implemented.

 

I would be willing to tough out the collapse of the US and its ramifications world wide then to stomache this tripe they do to the world over and over. If sanity is not brought to the leadership of the US I fear for the world and what might happen.

 

The US is insane now? Since when is bettering an area of the world being insane? Since when is defending your country being insane? Just because Canada has never been attacked doesn't mean they're safe either. The fact that they are cooperative with terrorists though does make them less vulnerable.

 

I assume you mean...like..the welfare system. You wanna know what else is Phenominal? The amount of people on it. Now thats BLOODY phenominal.

The US does not care about its population.....hell ..that would be socialist. HELL..that would make sense.

 

And Hell I wasn't talking about welfare. THe welfare system in the US needs serious reform and many of the socialist welfare programs we have are, well, socialist. And, Hell, Socialism would be terrible for the US just like it has been for Sweden, France, Germany and Canada. While some socialist programs are fine, full blown socialism is horrible.

 

 

To the first part of that quote...HA! HAHA! HAHAHA! Ever heard of a man named Richard Nixon? And that's only one of the FAMOUS incidents of government corruption. If you truly believe that ANY government of ANY nation isn't corrupt, you are more naive than even I gave you credit for.

 

And you obviously know about how quickly Richard Nixon was brought to justice. The US government is not corrupt compared to other governments. In a truly corrupt government like France, leaders liek Chirac are allowed to get away with making illegal buisiness deals with Iraq even when he is completely violating international law.

 

TRIED, so they obviously DIDNT get a paycut. That doesn't change the fact that Bush WANTED them to get paid less than what they do for fighting in the war.

 

Find me a reliable quote that Bush ever siad "I want the military to have a paycut". ANy quote, as long as it is credible, which means any news producer other than Al Jazeer.

 

-Boran

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by boranchistanger

And you obviously know about how quickly Richard Nixon was brought to justice. The US government is not corrupt compared to other governments. In a truly corrupt government like France, leaders liek Chirac are allowed to get away with making illegal buisiness deals with Iraq even when he is completely violating international law.

 

Nixon was brought down quickly because his corruption was brought to public eye. He got CAUGHT by people who weren't in his inner circle. You dont' think most presidents engage in unlawful and corrupt activities? Well, you get my mark for most naive person on these boards, because that's just foolish.

 

I'll get you a link on the pay cuts sometime, I'm not in the mood to go news searching.

 

Edit - I suppose perhaps a statement from a US Senator would sway you?

[VanLingo]

Quoted from the link that ET Warrior posted

The Pentagon wants to cut combat pay for soldiers by $225 a month by eliminating pay raises that Congress approved earlier this year.

The first thing liberals want to do when a Republican is voted into office is make him accountable for every branch of the government.

Also note that this is not so much a pay cut as it is a Clinton fix. The fact that Clinton's demilitarization of American was soon after replaced by huge pay raises disproves the move as a "budget cut".

 

What I think is really funny is the Canadian whining. I wanted to make some quip about "don't like it, vote it", but then I remembered -- you don't vote!

I guess you're whining is warranted. It's all you're allowed to do.

[PanzerTekk]

Health care blah blah....people helping others who need money blah balh.....you think that only happens in america? I am not saying our own system is flawd, but thk GOD the conservatives didn't get in power here. If they ahd we would have been down the privately owned hospital road...WHICH is bad bad bad.

And the reason you are in a line is because YOU are no more important then someone else who is just as sick as you are. People go across the border to get medical treatment from the US if they have the cash....the only reason.

(Cough cough affordable medicine that we are selling a truck load of to US companies and people because your prices are insane for simply medicine)

Its just another money making angle in the US. Thats it.

 

I'm not beating down on americans...i'm beating down on AMERICA.

And I never said that canada was free of propaganda.....I dont watch Tv(but when I do I see more mundane fluffy thigns then ...5 killed, 3 killed, war war war this ugy is bad..that guy is bad)..I find other sources if I want to know about a topic....I make it my responsiblity to NOT be fed propaganda till I smile and nod or turn apathetic.

I wont be conditioned.

 

Even though the..."If the US never went to europe with troops the allies would still have won" is largely a WHAT IF scenario I honestly believe that the soviets would have continued to decimate the germans.

The germans just didn't have the manpower anymore. the end.

When the german forces were in sight of the Kremlin spires(suburbs of moscow) the high command found out that there were WHOLE new divisions of Red Army soldiers being sent at them. They were baffled because they appeared out of the blue....

The manpower that Russia could harness was absolutey crazy.

After the entire stalingrad/pride/personal slight to Stalin it was over for the germans. It was only a matter of time. Americans or no americans.

They made a gamble. Take Moscow before winter. They failed. The war was doomed.

The events that took place on the eastern front decided the war. Everything else was just frosting on the cake.

 

June 22nd'41

Gernmany declares war on russia in a lightning war.

The USSR went 3 years essentially fighting the German war machine alone.

Apart from researching a nuke the germans had no chance. Even with new tank tech they had no chance....the USSR had finally bested them in what was considered the German advantage.

Your theory of the US diverting needed resources from the Russian front and thereby giving the victory to Russia(essentially) is flawed. All the best crap was already over there. The soldiers holding the fort in the west were 2nd to 3rd rate trooops for the most part. HELL...many of the troops defending the german bunkers on d day were in fact conscripted POWS from the east.

Maybe the fact that the Russians were already in germany long before the US forces came a knocking helps you see that the US was not the cause of Germanys defeat.( if there direct intervention was even needed at all)

 

O...US casualties in Africa. Ya they had casualties, but the majority of fighting was already done and Rommel was in retreat for the most part. And if the # is 50k men then thats a drop of water in a large pond.

 

But thats not what makes me mad. I'm just stating a more then likey scenario that would have happened.

 

Uncle Ben had some good advice bush and the US should listen to.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

 

Anyways...we totally hijacked this thread. heh.

[Shadowman17]

boran, or for that matter, anyone out there, give me good examples of the liberal media (More than three, if you can).

[boranchistanger]

Alright, the World War II stuff shall be discussed somewhere else. Time to get back to iraq! Panzar, I would like to discuss WW2 with you sometime though, do you have AIM or MSN Messenger?

 

Health care blah blah....people helping others who need money blah balh.....you think that only happens in america? I am not saying our own system is flawd, but thk GOD the conservatives didn't get in power here. If they ahd we would have been down the privately owned hospital road...WHICH is bad bad bad.

 

OK, let me get this straight. You want government to own everything? You're a stinking communist if that is the case! Let's not continue this debate in this thread, though I would like to discuss this with you in private.

 

And the reason you are in a line is because YOU are no more important then someone else who is just as sick as you are. People go across the border to get medical treatment from the US if they have the cash....the only reason.

 

Ummm, the reason you wait in long lines is because of the Law That Government is Inneficient. That simple. I'll discuss this with you in private though.

 

I'm not beating down on americans...i'm beating down on AMERICA.

 

I just cannot understand this massive anti-American hatred in the world, I just can't. He has yet to give me one negative thing that America has done.

 

And I never said that canada was free of propaganda.....I dont watch Tv(but when I do I see more mundane fluffy thigns then ...5 killed, 3 killed, war war war this ugy is bad..that guy is bad)..I find other sources if I want to know about a topic....I make it my responsiblity to NOT be fed propaganda till I smile and nod or turn apathetic.

 

I share your same philosophy so I don't watch the liberal media, not even Fox News for that matter.

 

Uncle Ben had some good advice bush and the US should listen to.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

 

Indeed, and would you please give me an example in which Bush has abused his responsability?

 

Edit - I suppose perhaps a statement from a US Senator would sway you?

 

Most times, no. I don't trust senators, especially John Edwards.

 

boran, or for that matter, anyone out there, give me good examples of the liberal media (More than three, if you can).

 

OK, where to start.

 

New York Times has had over 200 Editorials and news reports all about Abu Gharab in the past year. Only 5 news and editorial stories have even mentioned Saddam's mass graves.

 

When CNN reports a story they always lean towards a liberal side. For example, when discussing The Bush campaign today they had the Governor of New Mexico Richardson and some insignificant member of the Bush campaign. So, obviously the Governor of New Mexico won out on that. And notice too how CNN always reports the attacks in Iraq before anything else. And do you ever notice how MSNBC, CNN, ABC, NBC, and CBS always, whenever there is opinion involved, have a LIBERAL person talking about the topic and NEVER a conservative guy?

 

Oh, and here is a Washington Post Front Page News story which talks about the Senate Intellegence Report. I love how they twist around the facts.

 

"In accusing the CIA and its top leaders of engaging in a "group think dynamic," the committee said analysts and senior policymakers never questioned their long-held assumption that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction."

 

There are more than three examples for you.

 

-Boran

[Ewok Homie]

No offense.. but the war in iraq was one of the worst things america has done in a politicol stance. And boran if you still want to know one bad thing america has done think of what we did to the indians. Not to mention in uganda most of people fighting in the civil war that has been going on there are childern from 7 to 16. So dont you dare say iraq needed to be saved over that. And when you say all the soilders in iraq are supporting the war think again over 50 percent stated that we should not be there. In a war dont you think all the soilders should be agreeing that we should be fighting? And michal moore is no idiot just because he is finding things wrong with your beloved dumbut bush.

[yaebginn]

I didnt read the whole thing, but ewok homie, Michale Moore is a liar. Go to http://www.moorewatch.com if you dont believe me.

[boranchistanger]

Oh, so now we bring up the Native Americans. Now, that happened how long ago? Over 150 freaken years ago! And I find it quite remarkable too that there are more Native Americans today than there were in 1776. Very wierd isn't it?

 

Now, you mention Uganda. Like I said earlier, why should US forces die for something that will not benefit the country they are fighting for? WHy should Americans die for no reason just like they did isn Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia and others (All under Clinton by the way). The UN is responsable for preventing genocide and solving other people's problems. The US, like I said earlier, has 2 things in its foreign policy: US interests and improving the world around the US. Now, Iraq fits both of those requirements so it is a very legitimate war. Wars like World War I and Vietnam do not meet both requirements so they are therefor not legitimate wars for the US to get involved in.

 

So dont you dare say iraq needed to be saved over that.

 

Once again we did not go into Iraq to "saave Iraq" though that is a side effect. We went in to simply establish a democracy in the Middle East which will be a crucial part in winning the war on terror. See the 5th post in this thread, I explain it all there.

 

And when you say all the soilders in iraq are supporting the war think again over 50 percent stated that we should not be there. In a war dont you think all the soilders should be agreeing that we should be fighting?

 

Nope, I honestly don't give a crap what the soldiers think. I care about what's the right thing to do and Iraq WAS the right thing to do and 10 years from now you will look back and say "Thank God the government didn't listen to me." And, btw, troop morale is very high, according too numerous studies by the coalition provisional authority.

 

And michal moore is no idiot just because he is finding things wrong with your beloved dumbut bush.

 

Alright, let's get one thing straight, Bush is not a "dumbet". He scored better on his SAT's than Kerry, graduated Yale with honors and has been extremely successful in everything he does. His speech makes hiom come off as dumb but in reality, he is extremely smart.

 

Now, Michael "Krispy Kreme" Moore is not an intellkegent human being. He is a Socialist, and he has admitted so. And no socialist person is very smart. Michael Moore uses lies to get his point accross, like this example in Fahrenheit 911.

 

Moore implies that the African American inner city community is suffering the most in Iraq. In fact, 70% of the casualites in Iraq have been to white-males.

 

Moore says that the Bush family has strong connections with the Bin Ladin family along with the Saudi Royal family. In fact that is a completely false claim, shown by Bush's repeated pressure and threats of sending troops into Saudi Arabia. Bush has also authorized a ton of money to be sent to Saudi rebel forces.

 

Finally, Michael Moore makes that old claim that Bush "cheated" his way into office. He says that if there was a recount Gore would have won. Unfortinately Michael Moore overlooks the fact that numerous studies have been executed by newspapers and news stations and all have found that under any recount Bush would have won Florida.

 

So this man is a liar and, well, a Socialist. And I hate guys who are liars.

 

-Boran

[Shadowman17]

Democracy has been in the Middle East for around 80 years in Turkey.