yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 one thing, how do you know that boran isnt lying? You cant be positive of almost anything. I'm not 100 hundred percent positive of alot of things. But whatever van lingo told me, its always backed up by hardcore proof and all. boran has no hardcore proof. lingo is trustworthy, boran is not. I have caught him being really sneaky before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadisticmonkey Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You're right, I can't be sure. But what hardcore proof does lingo have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Innocent until proven guilty. He doesnt need proof because he's innocent. Van Lingo doesnt have to present all thses facts, because he's not the offence. Boran should have hardcore proof if he's gonna accuse Van Lingo of such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XMajor Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 "Innocent until proven guilty" isn't exactly hardcore proof, though you would make a decent juror, yaebginn. Boran does have proof of the PMs, which could be doctored. The only way he can prove to me that they are not is to let me go on his name and look at his PMs. That is the ONLY way to prove the messages are not doctored besides visiting his house. Then, assuming the messages are real, there is enough evidence to prove that Van Lingo was in fact the hacker because the message said "I should have deleted your website and forums when I had the chance." At which point his clan should be dissolved. No need for a myg0t battlefront community. That is the only way to resolve this issue using hardcore proof. If those messages were deleted or never existed then Van Lingo is simply not guilty. I don't know why you guys say there was no motives for lying. For example: Boran wants his clan to be the best, and often is very up front that his clan makes everyone look bad. He noticed some trash talking going on about his clan by HD and decided to blame his hacker problem on Van. He then doctors some crazy posts all over the message boards, claiming it was Van. or Van: He's sick of IEF bragging and arguing with his clan all the time, so he hacks into Boran's account. He then logs onto Boran's name and makes that post about spam wars. You see that he has made accusations that he would have done a better job if he had hacked into Boran's account which in fact means he probably would've dumbed it down a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 even if you did go on his file, he said to me that he could hack into Van Lingo'sfiles. whats stopping him from doing that and planting the messages? and van Lingo doesnt need proof to prove his innnocense. If I said that the lady at wal mart was a nazi. she wouldnt need proof to prove she's not, I'd just need proof against her. and if I could give it, the case would be invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanLingo Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 This is getting nowhere. And it probably never will. I'm resting my case. The reason that I have no proof of innocence is because there is no such thing. What do you want me to do? Take a screenshot of the PMs I didn't send? Let you all see my outgoing folder? I never hacked boran's accounts nor claimed to. If I was a hacker, don't you think that I'd have a nicer website? I'm not a hacker, otherwise every single one of boran's accounts would be gone and his computer crashed. Three times now boran has accused, with sketchy evidence. Quotes (no basis whatsoever for accusation), fuzzy pictures (close enough to be believable, but still no dice), and moderator intervention (won't happen unless it's a policy break). It's my word against his. And you're welcome to believe him. By all means, go ahead. Just keep in mind: boran is a 14-year-old kid with nothing but summer time and wishful thinking that the IEF will be some overlord dynasty. I am a 22-year-old college video game junkie who just wants to play. EDIT: And XMajor, you're dangerously smart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XMajor Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Where did I say Van Lingo needed any proof? I didn't. He is the defendant. He just needs to prove Boran wrong and he, and you, are doing a good job. You make another good point about him being able to hack into his files which basically aquits Van Lingo. That is borderline reasonable doubt. "Hacking" is a tough issue. Gotta settle this. One week after the game is released - HD vs. IEF 30 minute match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanLingo Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 You know, I should probably shutup, but I'm gonna let a new cat out of the bag. (*Groan*, I know) Here is a link to a page that is compiled of two separate conversations between Yaeb Ginn and Boran. The second conversation was also witnessed by two more IEF members. Click here for the chat session log. Whether you believe the session or not is entirely up to you. However, the remainder of the conversation (which is not posted) is basically Boran claiming that he owns up to everything he says. So it would be very hypocritical for him to suddenly deny a chat session that featured three witnesses. Now, it seems to me that this is much more disturbing news than what this thread is about. Not only did I NOT claim to hack one website, Boran DID claim to hack them all! On top of all that, he admits to lying ("only Jesus never lied...everyone else has"). But this whole thread, he's been saying that he never lied to anybody! Personally, I think that this little chat is more relevant to the clan community (Boran claiming to have everyone's passwords) than my hatred of Boran. I have never carried a fight as far as he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 very good old boy. hey, doesnt zztop sing a song that goes, 'do do do do do do do do do <nernernerner> couldnt get much higher do do do do. Anyways, lets discuss this new bit of evidence, shall we? yeah, I remeber those. Good times. I wish I saved the part where I made fun of boran for using such big font, that was funny. but yep, the second one happened like, yesterday or the day b4. and the other one like, less than a month ago? maybe a bit more. Let's all take down the Forum Nazi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadisticmonkey Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I was IN that AIM conversation, and Boran never said that. I'm just gonna leave it now, and say that both of you are innocent as this going knowhere. EDIT: Ignore that 1st part, I was looking at the wrong conversation:p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 thats funny how fast you say Van Lingo's inncent once he produces a counter-attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadisticmonkey Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Jesus. I'm only stopping because I can't be arsed to argue anymore. It's just pointless if it's just going to be "He did this", "No I didn't". And for the record, that file could easily have been changed. Thats it. I'm not saying anymore unless I can be arsed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 b4, you were all down Lingo's throat. and now you're like, ' Oh, they're both innocent' as soon as Van Lingo has a case against boran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Strike Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Is it just me, or does that chat log feel really made up? I mean, come on, it sounds WAY too obvious. :jawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 its not made up, I was there. The second one, you ahve witnesses. But the first, I swear was real. Boran let alot out because he didnt think I'd copy it. it is real, though I dont know if boran will admit this one. cause right after the conversation, I emailed it to van lingo to warn him. I'm glad he saved it. the first one if my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global Strike Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'm not saying it is made up or anything, just that it feels, weird. :jawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I imagine it would. It was done a bit ago, though. so he woulda felt less need for precaution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt1 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Ok then, I was also in that chatroom. And GlobalStrike you are half right half wrong. You are wrong becuase that chat did very much happen. You are right becuase Lingo got ahold of it and cutted out some of the words. And yes Boran did say he lied. BUT not about accusing Lingo as a hacker. He lied about saying he could get into Lingos account. So next time Van Lingo when you try to defend yourself, DONT CHEAT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Not uh, I saw exactly what happened. Ur just sitcking up for him because he's ur leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boranchistanger Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 Alright, lets get this straight for the last time. The conversation that Van Lingo provided between me and Yaebginn is true true true. However, what I was saying is not what it appears. I LIED to Yaebginn there for the safety of my clan. At that time I knew that Van Lingo was the culprit for the whole hacker thing (the IP addresses matched after all) and I assumed he could do it again. Now, I made all it up to Yaebginn knowing that there was a good chance he would pass that on to Van Lingo. I hoped that that bluff would dissuade Van Lingo from doing a similar thing to the IEF like he did at the end of May. Now, think about this. The only possible way someone could pull something like this off is to get the password for the guy's account and password. There is no way even an expert hacker can do so. Now, on that day the "Antagonist" struck I had registered into Van lingo's HD forums. Now, the admin of the forum can look at anyone's password. At that time I used the same password for everything so, on that day, Lingo had access to my password on that day and therefor every other account I had. So, he simply went on my admin account on the IEF forums, my websites along with my email account and changed the passwords. Very simple. And Van Lingo had every motive to do so. I mean, the guy's clan was being completely overshadowed by the IEF's rapiud growth and my continued invlolvement into the clan community. Plus the fact the two of us got into a fight that morning also didn't help. Now, "the Antagonist" attempted to frame Rourk by saying to "Cancel the trial against me". At that time Rourk was on trial for some misconduct. Lingo and Antakah were the only other people outside the IEF who knew anything about ROurk's trial and Antakah was out of town or something during that time. Lingo only knew that Rourk was on trial though, he didn't know that ROurk has been my best gaming friend for the past 4 years and has had much worse things happen to him because of me than a stupid trial. lol. Now, every member in the IEF knows this so the antagonist couldn't of been an IEF member. So, I get my accounts back, immediately violate the agreement to cancel Rourk's trial (Which Rourk publically said was OK) and changed my passwords. And what do you know the guy never came back. Now, the IP addresses of Van Lingo's posts along with the posts made by the "antagonist" had the exact same IP address. And the fact that Van Lingo's denial of any involvement PM came only minutes after the "antagonists" last post. Now he admits in a PM that he is the culprit and flat out denies all of this. That's quite funny isn't it. I have a couple of questions for you Lingo. Why were my posts in your forum cancelling relations with HD deleated both times I typed them in? Why was my rebuttel which I posted after you used my account to post that fake message in my name deleated? And I'm glad you took the bait Van Lingo, you went into my old website account (Which I haven't changed the password since the end of May) and deleated half my member page? And then you try to recruit Luke Katarn who you have spoken out against numerous times by using that? Very interesting now isn't it. Now, a couple of responses. Personally, I think that this little chat is more relevant to the clan community (Boran claiming to have everyone's passwords) than my hatred of Boran. I have never carried a fight as far as he has. Let's see here, after hacking into my forums you allow your members to flame my thread. During that whole thing my members never flamed back at HD and I was the one who in the end proposed the peace. Might I ask what examples you have of the IEF taking a fight to far? For example: Boran wants his clan to be the best, and often is very up front that his clan makes everyone look bad. He noticed some trash talking going on about his clan by HD and decided to blame his hacker problem on Van. He then doctors some crazy posts all over the message boards, claiming it was Van. People say that a lot. When have I publically said the IEF was the best clan and that all other clans should go to HE double hockey sticks? I said the IEF was the best clan ONE TIME publically in the old IEF thread (Deleated by Van Lingo when he took my accounts). Privately I have said it however it was in the proper context of the chat. Yaebginn and I have had that debate numeroius times and each time Yaebginn has started it by saying HD is the number one clan. Now, it seems to me that this is much more disturbing news than what this thread is about. Not only did I NOT claim to hack one website, Boran DID claim to hack them all! And, as I have said before, I lied at that time and for good reason to. And I never brought down a clan for 2 days, attempted to frame someone by using your admin powers and so forth. Just keep in mind: boran is a 14-year-old kid with nothing but summer time and wishful thinking that the IEF will be some overlord dynasty. Nothing but summer time along with Golf everty other day, tennis league, baseball along with my political studies. Plus I like goiung to a couple of concerts here and there (The Blink 182 concert was pretty cool btw, recommend you all go see it). And I just laugh at that last statement as, unlike you, I have never tried to completely destroy another clan for no reason other than they're better. -Boran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 that took you so long? jeez its not that long. and I'm not buying that u lied. its alot easier to admit u lied then fess up. If u lied then, then whats stopping u from lying now? It's way way eaiser to say, 'oh yeah, I lied' then to fess up and explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boranchistanger Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 Originally posted by yaebginn that took you so long? jeez its not that long. and I'm not buying that u lied. its alot easier to admit u lied then fess up. If u lied then, then whats stopping u from lying now? It's way way eaiser to say, 'oh yeah, I lied' then to fess up and explain. Like I have said I have never lied in public. I will swear on my honor along with every thing I stand for that I am telling the truth that I lied. For me that's quite a bit to swear on. Now, as for the length, well, the first time I wrote it it was a lot longer, however the tupid forums made me relogin after I clicked submitted then it said invalid. So I had to retype it again. -Boran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaebginn Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 if your a liar, then that wouldnt mean muhc, would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boranchistanger Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 if your a liar, then that wouldnt mean muhc, would it? I guess every person in the world is a liar then Yaebginn? I lied once to you for the defence of my clan, wow. And I would like to extend an invitation for Van Lingo to get on AIM and have a discussion with me in front of those who are interested. I'm on most of tonight. -Boran EDIT: Discard that last part, I gtg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jed Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Let me, for the record, say that this wouldn't have gone on as long if I had thought people responsible enough to create a clan would be acting like elementary school students. Guess I was wrong. Any respect I had for any of you has gone down the toilet. And if this stupid bickering doesn't end, it will end bad for both sides. And for the record, for being one of the mods here, I was never asked to see any PMs. I hope you get your acts in gear before Battlefront comes out, because I sure as hell wouldn't want to play on any of your servers right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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