DK_Viceroy Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 Ok PLEASE explain all of that in greater detail so i'll at least know your not mad or talking in code Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I am not expecting payment. We can leave that there, unless of course you want me to get even more pompous. As to the Bioware comment it's pretty self explanatory when looked at in the proper context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 explain what bioware us for us if you please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Here DK http://www.darwinmag.com/read/040104/legal.html I made the assumption that bioware was not fully reemed, I *was* not privy to the actual agreements, however its better if LA is holding the leash good and tight. Irreguardless there shouldn't be too much of a problem either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 That's fascinating read every word of it but A what does reemed mean or is that a typo B what IS bioware you didn't answer that question and finally C What leash what are you talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Viceroy, just let him be. Don't turn this thread into another flame war like the one about my design. If Puzzlebox believes he can get around the legal concerns of LucasArts when no-one else has, who are we to stand in his way? Puzzlebox, I still don't understand why we can't review it unless LA rejects it. I still think our opinions may help you, since we have been discussing it for a couple of years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 On topic:Deflection, but space battles would kill it if they tried to implement it I think. It would have to be done either seperately via another engine but I don't see that working out. Off:Vostoc my thread about your topic was not a flame war, almost every post we presented a number of points and engaged in valid discussion about your ideas. DK I know that you are not that inept and I think you are trying to goat me. "explain what bioware us for us if you please"=? "explain what bioware is for us if you please=This is how it relates to what I'm saying DK"- http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic/ As for the leash reference you must know what I mean. I don't want to keep dragging this out, I said what I wanted to do, egotistical? yes, but we can drop it all ready. On topic again:Cut-scene editor, Empire Earths was acceptable, too bad the game wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 Maybe you could have a mode where it's just ground and then have space battles for nitro's conqeur the galaxy. There are many games with both ground and space combat I think the best one is Imperium Galactica 2 and that one is quite old yet it's got some stunning visual effects. considering how effective some engines are I think it could work but maybe you could turn it off. especially since if we want realism. someone with a high enough rank to command a planet's armies { the player } would propably get access to a small fleet to try and intercept the enemy. it may detract from the ground batles at time but like i did over a year ago I still support space battles but not at the expense of gettiong a game idea we all like and agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I don't think the answer to every problem is the ability to "turn it off". All games are different, you can't hope to please everyone by having fundamental features of the game just being turned off. There are some things that should of course be optional, like cheats, but any fundamental gameplay concepts shouldn't be negated with the un-checking of a box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 Well in that case why don't we get to work on a model that would give priority to ground battles but add the space element in and make it useful but not overpowered. which certainly will be challenging since the Empires star destroyers were designed with planatery bombardment in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I used to not be a fan of adding Space Battles, but I'm starting to come around to the idea. However, I think if it were to be included it should only be a minor, very simplified representation of space battles. A space-battle system that is as developed as, say, Homeworld 2's will only compete with the ground-based battles for development, so it is better to develop one to the best of it's abilities (ground battles) while the other one is a simplified version of what it could potentially be were the entire game devoted to it (space battles). What I mean is, ground battles and space battles both have different requirements, and an attempt to fit both of them into the same game will mean the developers effectively have to make two separate games. If they develop space battles as only a basic extension of the ground battles, it will be far less work and as such far more feasible. Also, in general the civs have less space-based units available than they do ground-based units, so development of the space battles to the same level of involvement that the ground battles ask for is probably unnecessary. I've got a few ideas as to how this could work. I might start yet another RTS design to incorporate them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 If it's that small, what's the point of even having one? When people want space battles, they want stuff like the Battle of Endor, not a pointless overly simplified skirmish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 who said it was a pointless over simplified skirmish we're only saying that it shouldn't eclipse the ground battles that's all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 It won't be small scale, it just won't have as many intricacies as the ground battles. For example, you won't be collecting resources in space, you'll have to collect them on the ground then use them to build stuff in space. I guess you'll just have to wait until I write up my new idea to see how it will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok However, I think if it were to be included it should only be a minor, very simplified representation of space battles nuff said. EDIT:It's kind of annoying when you always post at the same time as me Vostok Alright I'll wait and see but I'm still skeptical and against the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Yes. Even though you seem to have relented, I'll point out that a "minor, very simplified representation" does not imply that it will be small scale skirmishes. It just won't have all the intricacies as a fully developed space battle RTS like Homeworld 2, ie you won't be able to board enemy ships, mine resources in space, have a huge range of different ship types to choose from or set up minefields and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 Just wopndering though would credits be an excpetion like if you went to a neutral spaceport with a freighter you could get credits that way. or is credits classed as an ASSett or a resource? Space battles would propabnly revolve more around invading other planets maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 "Puzzlebox, I still don't understand why we can't review it unless LA rejects it. I still think our opinions may help you, since we have been discussing it for a couple of years now." "I would have thought someone as intelligent as yourself would see the benefits of comments from people who have been discussing the next Star Wars RTS for about 2 years now." I doubt it Vostoc, at least to any large degree, but I suppose I owe you something, comment away. Galactic Empire Command Base Hero Imperial Officer Probe Droid Armory Military Academy Stormtrooper Missile Trooper E-Web Team Technician Elite Commando Flight School Pilot Heavy Weapons Factory AA-MB AT-PT AT-ST AT-AT Warehouse Air Base Tie Fighter Tie Interceptor Tie Avenger Tie Bomber Tie Transport ATV Transport Command Post Imperial Officer Probe Droid Bunker Barracks Stormtrooper Scout Farm Animal Shelter Collection Platform Research Facility Housing Unit Population Complex Docking Bay Slave Bounty Hunter Freighter Utility Depot Utility Droid Maintenance Droid Construction Droid Sub-Station Large Sub-Station Portable Generator Resource Depository Utility Droid Bank Monument Recon Post Turbolaser Turret Reinforced Wall Laser Turret Barrier Wall Gun Platform Stockade Wall Name change from laser to gun platform-Vostocs GB2 Name change from power generator to Sub-Station-Vostocs GB2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 I suppose you do owe me something since you're using some of my ideas! It's a start, but since you haven't given any details I'm sure you'll forgive me for making assumptions. 1. The Technician sounds intriguing, what does he do? 2. I notice you've got a buildable Pilot... how do these work? This is one subject we've discussed a fair bit and I think you'd benefit from the conclusions we've come to. 3. I'm curious as to why you've got a TIE Transport and an ATV Transport, both of which are completely made up as far as I know, and you haven't got the Imperial Shuttle. 4. What does the maintenance droid do? Is he just for repairing? If so I think this unit is a bit silly, since most of the time he'll be standing around doing nothing. It would be better if the Maintenance Droid and the Construction Droid were combined. Those are all my immediate comments. Have you written up an Overview, covering much the same fundamental game mechanics as mine does? For example, how you collect resources, what type of resources their are, unit statistics, tech levels or their equivalent, how population works, unit classifications, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FroZticles Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Well I guess we all owe LA since we are using the brand name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 6, 2004 Author Share Posted August 6, 2004 Just thinking abouit starships would we have Super STar destroyers would they cost an incredibly large amount would they require an ongoing sum to keep them running Would you define what limits we should have for space battles and i'll try and come up with some acceptable framework. If i remeber rightly the Tie transport is just a bomber with elongated pods with no bombing equipment. ALso do the coulours you've written them in have any special meaning like what priority level they became availble at or are they for decoratrion also do you have any plans for units for the space ideas we're coming up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Ok, here are my thoughts. Puzzlebox's template - apart from your massive ego, this template is unworkable. Apart from an extreme lack of information, you use too many EU units while ignoring film units. Also, even I, having ready a great deal of SW EU, have no idea what a 'TIE Transport' or 'AA-MB' are. Following on from this, what use does the TIE Avenger have? This would seem to be covered by the Fighter and Interceptor, and if it replaces them, it alters greatly how the Empire is portrayed in the films. Viceroy - having added starships to my template, I definately say no. This is because of the huge size and cost, and also because we only ever see one - the Executor. Due to this, this ship does appear in my template, but as Vader's flagship, and therefore a hero vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK_Viceroy Posted August 6, 2004 Author Share Posted August 6, 2004 so maybe it could have abuild unit or be a toybox unit because it would be useful for Battle of Endor renactments. The AA-MB doesn't exist in star wars the closest i could think of is Anti Air MoBile. at least we agree they should cost a lot but would they require a maintence charge since they used more enrgy than a small industrialised planet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puzzlebox Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Vostoc- About "your" ideas, your template came from the community you said so it's more of a compendium of ideas unless most of the ideas were yours. The only things I used from it was to change the gun emplacement which was originally laser emplacement into the gun emplacement and to change power generator to sub-station, so you really can't say that in a defensive manner. 1.Power stations are very taxing on fuel vostoc, technicians lower fuel consumtion when inside them and increase resource output when inside buildings that generate them. 2.I struggled with this one for a while but ended up putting it in, it adds to realism in the manner I have it implemented, as well fighter aircraft and especially bomber aircraft in particular are very powerful in the game and add the proper significance to the unit class. 3.Technician should be blue not orange, pilot should be blue not orange, barrier wall should be heavy wall, laser to gun platform should be laser emplacement to gun platform, Tie transport should be transport, as to the ATV transport I added that for realism because I did not wish to see the dinky Lambda drop a couple of AT-ATs ever. I also neglected to add medical droid in the list. 4.Construction droids are hideously expensive, maintenance droids were something I implemented because they will be relatively cheap and will automatically get out of the depot and repair things in a given radius if a button in the depot is clicked, when there is nothing left to repair they will regarrison. As to if I've written up an overview, I suppose one could consider that to be a yes, however I did not write anything in a linear fashion and it is streamed everywhere and needs arranged, which I am in the process of doing along with a few other things which I've mentioned all ready. I suppose I could discuss some it but theres a wierd paradigm since you don't have the document and don't know how I intend everything to work, so while it might work because I know how I have it intentioned it might not work in your heads, this wouldn't be a problem if I were going to discuss all of it but oh well. Dk- Realistically no, that won't be possible given everything else, for RM anyway, Star Destroyers and the like will be toybox units available via the scenario editor however. The cost would be large at default but you can edit this if so choose, you may also change the building its created at and the parent civ away from the default if you like. Yes, the drain on fuel would be significant, but as with the other properties, you can alter the detracting stream. If you want me to give consideration to space battles from a stand off point of view and try to come up with some ideas if you want, but as I said I don't intend to have them in mine via a set in system that marries well with the game. I don't know what a TIE transport is DK, I googled it and found out a number of things, Twin Ion Engine-never knew the base for the acronym, found a new disgust for the EU, and I saw a schematic of a TIE transport, I also stupidly failed to capitalize it before. Mostly decoration, it can facilitate a little logic and was intended to split them up for you but those aren't indications of anything in the game past attacking, not attacking or purposeful in betweens. I could easily change my mind if I thought it were plausible. -Windu I was being nice by not dwelling on your template before windu but if this is what you want. A.You can't know if my template is workable or not because you haven't seen it and the only lack of information here is that which exists in your head. B.Index these film units I have ignored based on the information I presented via a numbered list, also, seeing as how I have given such account to the Expanded Universe units at the expense of these film units I am certain you wouldn't mind providing a similarly formatted list entailing which of these units aside from the TIE Avenger are taken from the EU and what should be done with them. C.The TIE Avenger is a shielded air craft that has a stronger attack against other aircraft than it's counterparts and is equipped with missile launchers for use against buildings and heavy weaponry as well as other aircraft, it is very expensive and is produced slowly however and as such is not meant for widespread use, not to mention it doesn't fly as fast. The TIE Interceptor is considerably cheaper and is capable of flying at excessive speeds making it ideal for strike missions where stealth and evasiveness is desired. The TIE fighter on the other hand is produced more quickly than the other two and is by far the least expensive, it is intended to be used in mass against opposing air forces and exist as the bulk of the Imperial Fleet. http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/tiefighter/ http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/tieinterceptor/ http://www.starwars.com/databank/starship/tieavenger/ The AA-MB is an Anti-Air Missile Battery and no the fighters do not replace each other so we don't need the stupid if so. I don't mind Vostoc's criticisms because his template would make for a good game, I just do not believe it would come close to mine. Your template on the other hand is abhorant, the weather effects and the kneeling and laying for bonuses and such would result in an unbridled click fest and is more suited a trench world war two game where you control a handful of brigades and there is no economy, as for your writing, learn some syntax and pray for a miracle. 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lukeiamyourdad Posted August 6, 2004 Share Posted August 6, 2004 Point C- As a huge Tie Fighter fan, I must point out that the Avenger is actually faster then the Interceptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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