Violence

[Spider AL]

SkinWalker:

 

The earliest examples of agriculture, which also offer a record of human activity begin with the Mesolithic period in Natufian Palestine. This marks the period in which people began to become sedentary and move from hunting/gathering to domestication of animals and plants. Between 10,000 and 7,000 years BCE.

And possibly earlier. Also I always think it's important to remember that nomadic life doesn't preclude intellectual and innovative sophistication. We seem to talk of humanity as if it evolved into its current reasoning form ONLY after it started farming en masse.

 

Kain:

 

For one, even if Selene got nailed by some psycho broad, the only thing I'd do is push the other woman away. Two, if it was a guy he'd be lucky to be able to leave under his own power.

 

This is just the way I was raised and its also my own beliefs. I don't care if anyone agrees with it or not, I just think its wrong.

Why do you think it's wrong? Or do you just go around holding beliefs without understanding the logic behind them?

 

Oh, and insulting people. Nearly forgot that.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Kain:

 

Why do you think it's wrong? Or do you just go around holding beliefs without understanding the logic behind them?

 

Oh, and insulting people. Nearly forgot that.

 

You just don't get it, do you? What do you get out of trying to drill everyone's beliefs? Do you like making enemies? My beliefs are a bit complex, and sometimes they tend to contradict each other, but its all situational anyways.

 

Its wrong because I've been raised to know its wrong, that mixed with my own twisted sense of self-honor makes hitting women wrong unless its a life and death situation. I also believe people who hit women for no reason deserve to be dragged into the street and shot.

 

But then again, atleast I'm not you. And that makes me feel better everytime I think about it.

 

And I have not yet begin to insult. You'll know when the insults start flying.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by Kain

You just don't get it, do you? What do you get out of trying to drill everyone's beliefs? Do you like making enemies? My beliefs are a bit complex, and sometimes they tend to contradict each other, but its all situational anyways.

 

Personally Kain, if you don't want people to drill your beliefs, don't go drilling others in the first place:

 

And that attitude will get you a lack of sex. Seriously, why hit a woman? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Does it show her who's boss?

 

1 word definiton of DELETED

[Spider AL]

You just don't get it, do you? What do you get out of trying to drill everyone's beliefs? Do you like making enemies?

Actually as Tyrion said, you were the one trying to "drill" my beliefs. Still, you've asked a valid question, and one that deserves an answer. No, I don't like "making enemies". Do you consider yourself my enemy after one post on the internet? That would be amusing.

 

But while I never instigate it, I don't shy away from conflict, online or otherwise. Hooray. For. Me.

 

My beliefs are a bit complex, and sometimes they tend to contradict each other, but its all situational anyways.

Well situational notwithstanding, don't you think it might be an idea to have a set of beliefs that DON'T tend to contradict each other? We can choose what we believe you know, it's called "having morals". Morality isn't hammered into you by rote during childhood, it's only and solely what you yourself believe to be right genuinely, born out of experience and analysis of the world.

 

Its wrong because I've been raised to know its wrong

Okay, so you've admitted there's no logic behind your position. Now please, and this is a plea not just to Kain but to everyone, PLEASE question what you've been "raised to believe". I can't imagine anything more unhealthy than belief without your own logic behind it.

 

But then again, atleast I'm not you. And that makes me feel better everytime I think about it.

There you go trying to insult me again.

 

And I have not yet begin to insult. You'll know when the insults start flying.

If that was supposed to be ominous in any way, I currently stand unimpressed. Threatening me with even more immature jibes is not the kind of thing likely to bother me. Try threatening me with physical violence...

 

I need a good laugh.

 

[Kain]

Werd, Tyrion, indeed I did. I'll admit when I'm wrong.

 

Spider: I don't like having enemies, its bad for the soul, causes unessicary stress, and basically makes one overly violent. Though if I do recall, you said my beliefs were outdated, which I won't speak for everyone here, but I find VERY offensive.

 

You're right morallity isn't hammered into your brain at childhood, but it is affected by what your parents told you was right and wrong. I was raised to believe in God, accept Christ as my saviour, violence isn't the answer to ANY situation, and to never EVER hold myself back in terms of what people expect of me and what I do.

 

My morals, on the other hand, are a lot different. I think religion is a leash for the weak willed, violence can be a nessicary evil when required, large groups of people are entirley to ignorant to be around for too long, women may be equals but they don't deserve a beating unless they are threatening your life or outweigh you to the point where if you stood there like a scarecrow you're gonna goto the hospital, conformity is for people who want to be in the spotlight but are too afraid to be an individual, rich people suck, using nice words is a sign of conformity and thus is dodged at all costs, being polite to strangers is like putting a welcome mat across your chest, humans tend to have their heads so far up their own asses that they can barely see the light of reason anymore, and the most important of my morals: Don't question me or my beliefs - they work for me and if you don't like, go piss on somebody else's parade.

 

And I don't insult you when I say I'm glad I'm not you. I'm glad I'm not Tyrion, glad I'm not Groovy, glad I'm not SkinWalker, glad I'm not ANYBODY that I know. I'm ecstatic that I'm my own person and anyone who doesn't like it needs to pull their heads out of their asses. And if it is insulting, my bad.

 

I'm not being ominous, I'm just saying. Being threatened over the internet is just admitting that you really have no life outside of it, and that saddens me...

 

Just thought I'd dress up my name. --SkinWalker

[ET Warrior]

I'm with Kain in that I won't hit a girl. And there are several reasons, mostly how I was raised.

 

But also, I think it's stupid to say that women are just the same as men, when that is an obvious fallacy. Women are not the same as men. They aren't built the same, they don't think the same and they don't act the same. Granted, there is the occasional girl who by genetics or training is a lot stronger / better fighter than a guy.

 

But if you took average girl A and put her in a fight with average guy A. Odds are if the guy doesn't hold back the girl is going to get the tar beat out of her because men are just built stronger.

[CapNColostomy]

Hmmm...I don't hit women, and I don't recall it being a belief that was drilled into my head during childhood. I've just decided for myself that there's nothing braggable about hitting people who are physically weaker or inferior to me in fighting. I also don't beat up on retarded children. So what does that mean?

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

Hmmm...I don't hit women, and I don't recall it being a belief that was drilled into my head during childhood. I've just decided for myself that there's nothing braggable about hitting people who are physically weaker or inferior to me in fighting. I also don't beat up on retarded children. So what does that mean?

 

I myself wouldn't hit a woman or a man unless they had started it first. I don't exactly get a boosted ego when I punch men or women or anyone, however I will do it if it they are threating me. And if a woman can threaten me, then she is not physically weaker than me.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by Tyrion

I myself wouldn't hit a woman or a man unless they had started it first. I don't exactly get a boosted ego when I punch men or women or anyone, however I will do it if it they are threating me. And if a woman can threaten me, then she is not physically weaker than me.

 

Not to be argumentative, but a child can threaten you. And they're definately physically weaker than you. I guess, anyway. I mean, how much can you bench?

[Kain]

Hm Spider, your 'morals aren't beaten into your skull as a child' theory is being tested by everyone who says its wrong.

 

Which begs the question: What were you raised to believe and how has it changed?

 

I mean, I was raised to NEVER hit a girl/woman, and I usually won't. But if she wails on me and theres no sign of her letting up, the most she'll get is shoved.

 

Example: My freshman year of highschool, I bought a 20 oz Ice Tea. I like tea, I was thirsty I wanted tea. So I buy one, but before I can drink it, the bell rings, so I get into my class and I set it down. Then some bitch decides to take it upon herself to take it. Me, being the forgiving and laughing guy I was, didn't push the matter. I was a bit sarcastic when I asked for it back, and we laughed. Of course, I figured since she laughed she was gonna give it back. I was wrong. The class ended and I walk up to her and say 'Hey, can I have my tea back?' and she says no. So I grab it. She death grips it. I pull it hard enough to break her grasp and put her on her bum. She gets all pissy at me and punches me in the side of the head twice. I ignore her and walk to my next class. Then one of her ******* buddies walks in(when I'm not looking, mind you) and hits me. Yea, well I snapped and tackled him against the board and threw him over a desk. I got suspended, even though she stole from me, hit me, her buddy hit me, and then I threw him over a desk in self defense(kinda, it was a bit blind rage and a bit self-preservation).

 

Shows my patience for even the rudest and most violent of women...even though I rambled a bit. The only way I woulda hit the girl is if her and her buddy decided to 2 on 1 me, then I woulda pushed her aside and taken her buddy. If she kept coming at me, I'd probably deck her once and push her away again.

 

I just don't like hitting girls.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by CapNColostomy

Not to be argumentative, but a child can threaten you. And they're definately physically weaker than you. I guess, anyway. I mean, how much can you bench?

 

Well, a child can't really threaten you physically, unless they have a knife or a gun. In which case, it's still probably fit to defend yourself.

 

And as for how much I can bench, I forgot.

[Kain]

Originally posted by Tyrion

Well, a child can't really threaten you physically, unless they have a knife or a gun. In which case, it's still probably fit to defend yourself.

 

And as for how much I can bench, I forgot.

 

If anybody came at me with a knife or a gun they'd be beaten, though age and sex would determine the extent.

 

But thas me.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by Kain

If anybody came at me with a knife or a gun they'd be beaten, though age and sex would determine the extent.

 

But thas me.

 

Well, I'd beat them just enough so that they wouldn't be a threat, which is obviously determined by thier qualities, age and sex among them.

 

Idealy, though, I'd get a long iron rod, smack it into another inanimate object, give an evil crazy-**** stare, and pretty much just make them wet thier pants silly.

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by Tyrion

Well, a child can't really threaten you physically, unless they have a knife or a gun. In which case, it's still probably fit to defend yourself.

 

And as for how much I can bench, I forgot.

 

But a woman can? I fail to follow that logic. Perhaps it's something as simple as we know different women, thus making Kains "circumstantial" comment relevant. I don't know any women, myself, that I'd feel threatened by unless they had a weapon. I was just saying that if a woman threatens you, "I'm gonna kick your ass Tyrion" you'd feel justified hitting her, because that is a threat, but it stops at children? Obviously you know the answer. That's all that matters. I really don't care what the answer is, not because I'm trying to be all "I'm right and you're wrong", but because this is all pretty irrelevant to me, since I commit acts of violence on a nearly daily basis. So I already know where I stand on the subject.

[Spider AL]

Kain:

Werd, Tyrion, indeed I did. I'll admit when I'm wrong.

And yet an apology to Spider for immaturely calling him nasty names is not forthcoming. Figures.

 

Spider: I don't like having enemies, its bad for the soul, causes unessicary stress, and basically makes one overly violent.

You should stop insulting people then. You might make a few enemies that way. Not me of course, but then I'm used to childish behaviour online after a decade of witnessing it.

 

Though if I do recall, you said my beliefs were outdated, which I won't speak for everyone here, but I find VERY offensive.

Actually I think you'll find that I pointed out that ONE of your beliefs was outdated, namely, your sexism. Naturally I stand by that, everyone knows that sexism is outdated.

 

You're right morallity isn't hammered into your brain at childhood, but it is affected by what your parents told you was right and wrong.

Once you're old enough to have a mind of your own, I'd HOPE that you'd question what your parents told you was right and wrong, and decide for yourself based upon logic and reasoning and experience of the real world. But apparently you have not, as you've put forward no logical REASONING behind your sexist belief, but merely restated it in various ways.

 

women may be equals but they don't deserve a beating unless they are threatening your life or outweigh you to the point where if you stood there like a scarecrow you're gonna goto the hospital

But men DO deserve such a beating if they're NOT threatening your life? Equality means that we judge people on their individual makeup, not on stereotypes like gender and age. I personally know at least three men over fifty that could kick my behind up and down any street you care to mention... they're my instructors. I've seen female fighters on TV that could probably kick all of our behinds in a fair fight. When confronted by an opponent, you must judge their threat level and respond proportionately... So if a woman with a gun threatens me with death, I'll respond with severe, full force because that would be the strategically safe decision. But if a lightweight, inexperienced man threatens me with his fists, I wouldn't injure him heavily because such a man simply doesn't pose the same threat to me as the woman with the gun.

 

You'd probably just try to take the gun away from the woman and give the poor little nerdy man an almighty beatdown, I suppose. But that's sexist, something you've admitted to being.

 

and the most important of my morals: Don't question me or my beliefs - they work for me and if you don't like, go piss on somebody else's parade.

That's not a "moral", it's rank arrogance AND hypocrisy, since you go around insulting others' beliefs willy-nilly.

 

And if it is insulting, my bad.

Your bad then. And please, don't chicken out now. You were insulting then and you're still insulting, at least have the courage of your convictions and admit it.

 

I'm not being ominous, I'm just saying. Being threatened over the internet is just admitting that you really have no life outside of it, and that saddens me...

So now you're implying that because I pointed out the immaturity of your petty "threats", I must have no life? How immature are you going to GET?

 

I just don't like hitting girls.

You know Kain, you could just say "I don't like hitting people who are weaker than me and not a threat to me" and that'd be fine. But instead, you have to be sexist. Not just sexist towards the weak men you profess a desire to beat, but sexist towards women in general because you discount the possibility that there are women who could kick your buttocks. There are, by the way.

 

It's the same as saying "I just don't like hitting white people."

 

ET Warrior:

But also, I think it's stupid to say that women are just the same as men, when that is an obvious fallacy. Women are not the same as men. They aren't built the same, they don't think the same and they don't act the same.

Of course women are on the whole, weaker than men. But on the whole, working class people are better fighters than middle class people. Does that mean that you'd give a smaller working class man a more severe beating than a heavier middle class man? That would be discriminatory, just as Kain's sexist stance is.

 

One must judge opponents on their individual weight, apparent strength and apparent confidence. So if I'm faced with:

 

a: A small, weak-looking man who's only started on me because he's drunk a few too many,

 

b: A woman with more muscles on her arms than I have on my legs and an evil glint in her eye,

 

Of course I'll fight "B" harder than "A". Self-preservation dictates that I do so. I might be able to restrain the man who's weaker than me safely, but a woman who looks stronger than me? Might not fare so well. So then, I'd go full force to disable.

 

And before you ask, NO I've not met such a woman, but IT COULD HAPPEN.

 

Once again, anything but judging opponents on their individual merits is prejudiced.

 

 

CapNColostomy:

Hmmm...I don't hit women, and I don't recall it being a belief that was drilled into my head during childhood. I've just decided for myself that there's nothing braggable about hitting people who are physically weaker or inferior to me in fighting. I also don't beat up on retarded children. So what does that mean?

That means you've never met a female opponent who's obviously a better fighter than you. I've never personally met such a female either, but because I don't want to be a sexist, I keep an open mind and an un-prejudiced attitude. In short, I judge opponents as they appear, I don't pre-judge.

 

What I'm saying is, if a seven-year old child were to come up to me with a knife and say "I'm going to kill you", the severity of my response would not be dictated by the fact that he's just a child, but by his small size and combative inexperience. I'd treat a newbie midget the same lenient way as I'd treat a child. I think that's the crux of the argument.

[Kain]

Spider, you're looking at everything individually and then trying to turn us against ourselves. Its not going to work. Its totally arogant for you to sit there and disect each and everyone of our moral systems and yet all you can say is 'Well, I'll treat everyone the same' without putting any of your logic behind it.

 

I'm done beating around the bush with you, so here's what I'm getting at: I don't need an analysis from someone I don't know and someone I don't like. My beliefs are my own, and if you don't wanna accept them or me for that matter, like I said, go piss on somebody else's parade.

 

And to that thing about the big woman vs the slim man, its a good thing you called me on that, for I feel I must clarify and you reminded me to. For one, anyone coming at me with a weapon is going to get the weapon taken from them, punched once, and then pushed away. Now, the extinuating circumstance to this is if I feel they can take the weapon back or cause me severe physical harm over a short short period of time, I'll probably keep hitting them, maybe with the weapon if I'm severley outweighed. If the guy is the same size, I'll probably throw the weapon aside and go hand and hand. If its a girl and she's the same size as me (ie: same weight, size doesn't much matter), then I'll probably hit her if she gets back up still excessivly violent, but if I get an opening, I'll hold her down, not sit there and beat her into a pulp. If its a guy of lesser weight then me, he'll get the same treatment as the girl of my size. If its a guy of obviously less prowess period(short skinny and couldn't fight to save his life), I'll just subdue him and hold him down, probably after the first hit. If its some psycho broad(and they're in herds around here), and she's hitting me, I'll probably let her get away with about 5 before I decide that she's gonna keep doing this until I'm down, I'll haul off and knock her on her petite lil arse. Thats a bit to take in so I'll simplify:

Big Man(50+ lbs on me): Beat down

Big Woman(50+ lbs on me): Subdue and hold

Equal Man(equal lbs): Subdue and hold

Equal Woman(equal lbs): Try and hold without much punching

Small Man(-50 lbs on me): Try and hold without much punching

Small Woman(-50 lbs on me): Try and ignore; if violence persists, hold down

 

Oh and by-the-by, when I said My Bad, thats an apology, so after that, you're the one still throwing petty insults around. But it is true, if you think hitting a woman is justified because of equality, most women aren't going to wanna be around you.

 

Just wanted to make sure everyone knows that.

 

And I hope we got this ugliness behind us Spider.

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Kain

I'm done beating around the bush with you, so here's what I'm getting at: I don't need an analysis from someone I don't know and someone I don't like. My beliefs are my own, and if you don't wanna accept them or me for that matter, like I said, go piss on somebody else's parade.

 

Kain, if you don't want people to discuss your "beliefs," then might I suggest not mentioning them in a "discussion" forum? And if you do (and you have), I'd ask that you (and Spider), degrade a discussion to a bicker-fest.

 

But it is ironic that the way this topic has gone is indicative of typical human behavior. Particular that of male human behavior. It all boils down to who the alpha-dog is. Its a shame that Homo sapiens find it so hard to push aside their primate instincts and embrace their intellect and critical thinking, which is unique to our species of primate. All the talk about who would kick who's butt when.... bleh.

 

True confidence comes from knowledge in the mind, honesty in the heart, and strength in the body. In that order, IMO. What someone's gender is shouldn't matter about whether or not you think you'd "fight them," but using the least amount of force necessary to control the situation is what's important. Whether its walk away or physically defend yourself, in the end the gender won't be an issue.

[Spider AL]

Spider, you're looking at everything individually and then trying to turn us against ourselves. Its not going to work. Its totally arogant for you to sit there and disect each and everyone of our moral systems and yet all you can say is 'Well, I'll treat everyone the same' without putting any of your logic behind it.

By pointing out the flaws in your logic I am somehow trying to "turn you against yourself"? Look, if I'm making you feel uncomfortable, feel free to ignore my posts in this thread. Nobody's making you read them.

 

Secondly, I was waiting for you to ask me for my reasons in print. Now I can put the case for MY morality in a way you never could for yours... logically.

 

First, there's the strategic. It would be strategically inadvisable for me to in some way ignore the danger posed by female opponents. They could be armed. They could have a bottle of acid, a knife, a gun. They could wait for my back to be turned and then glass me over the head. Discounting females as non-violent and non-threatening is the perview of those who have never had their faces scratched in a barroom brawl. If they can get close enough to scratch me in the face, they can get close enough to cut me with a rusty razor. If you're in a fight you have to take your opponents down. If there are multiple opponents and one of them is a woman I'm going to put her out of commission, just "shoving" her and leaving her running around so that she can find a brick to hit me with is a BAD idea.

 

Secondly as stated before there's the moral reasons for being wary of female foes. When faced with an opponent I must judge them on their individual merits, not merely for the strategic reasons stated above, but for a moral reason: Not being discriminatory. If I were to be racist, that would be wrong. Sexist, also wrong. Ageist, also wrong. I would like to think that I treat everyone as individuals not just in combat but in everyday life, judging them on their own personality and their own merits, not on some stereotype.

 

I'm done beating around the bush with you, so here's what I'm getting at: I don't need an analysis from someone I don't know and someone I don't like. My beliefs are my own, and if you don't wanna accept them or me for that matter, like I said, go piss on somebody else's parade.

What you want is to be able to insult people on internet forums... and not to receive a response AT ALL. Just remember YOU were the first one to insult anyone's beliefs.

 

Well mate, if you throw a tantrum with me, I'm going to have to slap you down with the sword of logic, and the hammer of not descending to your level. This forum isn't a place for you to take your angst out on anyone who disagrees with you, it's a place for serious, rational debate. Enough said.

 

Big Man(50+ lbs on me): Beat down

Big Woman(50+ lbs on me): Subdue and hold

Equal Man(equal lbs): Subdue and hold

Equal Woman(equal lbs): Try and hold without much punching

Small Man(-50 lbs on me): Try and hold without much punching

Small Woman(-50 lbs on me): Try and ignore; if violence persists, hold down

I find this totally acceptable and similar to my own scale, since in that list you're judging your opponents on their weight and muscle mass, not solely on their gender. This is at odds with your oversimplified "moral" idea about not hitting women at all. Bit of a change of tack from you, so I suppose I must have gotten through to you somehow. Hooray. For me.

 

Oh and by-the-by, when I said My Bad, thats an apology,

Ha! Hardly. What you said amounted to: 'I didn't insult you at all, you need to pull your head out of your ass... But if it was insulting, my bad.' so you'll have to forgive me if I laugh out loud at your idea of an apology. I never expected a serious one though.

 

But it is true, if you think hitting a woman is justified because of equality, most women aren't going to wanna be around you.

Okay, either you're just not paying attention at all, or you're trying to insult my ability to endear myself to women. Either way you need to reconsider your situation.

 

Naturally, as long as my girlfriend doesn't try to whack me, I'm sure she'll be fine.

 

And I hope we got this ugliness behind us Spider.

I don't know you. So you've insulted me in some forum thread, what do I care? The only ugliness around here is the ad-banner at the top of the page. You seem to take this place too seriously.

[Kain]

So I apologize and I break down my morallity towards violence in the simplist form, and you don't accept the apology, call me illogical, and take the credit because you reminded me to break it down. Yea, we're not egotistical:rolleyes:

 

Skinwalker: Werd

 

I'm done here. Apparently I'm too outdated at my venerable old age of 19.

[Spider AL]

So I apologize and I break down my morallity towards violence in the simplist form, and you don't accept the apology, call me illogical, and take the credit because you reminded me to break it down.

Actually you fail miserably to apologise, demonstrate your own illogic quite well without my help, and make a complete u-turn by agreeing with my philosophy instead of the one you propounded at the beginning of the discussion.

 

Apparently I'm too outdated at my venerable old age of 19.

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