Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 It seems to me that the exhaust vent was a major oversight by palpatine... so were the lack of fighter defense etc.. could it be that palpatine meant for it to be destroyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TicaL Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Possibly, as he could have made the plans for the next Death Star. So he delibrately made visible weaknesses so he could devise an even greater weapon, although it never worked out that way... Or he never knew Obi-Wan was still alive (I believe he is the one wo says its a big space station, if I'm not mistaken, or Han :S). Therefore would never think anyone would realise as they weren't Jedi or had Jedi Powers of sense and sight. Or he didn't realise how out of place it actually looked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 i doubt Palpatine intended for it to be destroyed. There doesn't seem to be any motive. Also, it was hardly a "major oversight". There was a tiny exhaust port, hardly a crippling weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 hmm, it did end up crippling the death star, hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I doubt very much he wanted it destroyed. Let's face it, why would he? And I doubt very much he knew anything about something as trivial as an exhaust port. The Empire was arrogant, just look at the many many large vessels emploid by the Empire. Most military officers wanted large ships, to great horror for the treasurers I might ad , while caring little for fighter pilots. Time and again, they refused to accept that they needed better fighters with more defensive capabilities, such as shields. The success of the TIE design though was to have it be as small as possible, therefor such energy sucking systems as a shield generator would increase it's size (as is evident in both the Avenger and Defender). The TIE Advanced x1 do prove that they were looking into shielded, and hyperspace capabilities, but the side project that spawned out from that research was the TIE Interceptor. While it was equipped with angled solar/radiator wings to make the side profile smaller, and new ion engines, plus added firepower which suggest a better reactor but of the same size, it still lacked defensive systems such as shields. And hyperdrives. TIE Interceptor really is just an improved TIE Fighter, with little "new" systems in it, just upgraded systems. Cheap, easily maintainable fighters, and provides more funding for larger ships, such as the Lancer Frigate, which they could develop since they ended up producing TIE Interceptors instead of the more expensive TIE Advanced (later dubbed TIE Avenger). Of course, the Lancer Frigate was a flopp, and didn't really perform as well against fighters which is what it was made for in the first place. Anyway, I'm rambling , like I said, the Empire is/was arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 now, if they truly wanted to be a superpower, they should have had nothing but one SSD for a control base, and put all their other money into Interceptors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 I think that aside from diverting funds to bigger ships, they wanted to focus on quantity rather than quality (ironically the opposite of what they do with capital ships, go figure), as is evidenced by the swarms of TIEs in the battle of Endor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 the TIES did well though, if only the fool palpatine hadn't released the shield info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 "your over-confidence is your weakness..." - Luke Skywalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch the TIES did well though, if only the fool palpatine hadn't released the shield info He didn't release the info abouth the first Death Star, he only did this with the second one because it was part of his plan. This way he could trick the Alliance into thinking the Death Star was vulnerable and get them into a trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynk Former Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 But he didn't foresee the primitive Ewoks to be a threat and because of that the shields were taken down which led to the breakdown of his entire plan. Again, his overconfidence is his weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 The exhaust port wouldn't have been able to be penetrated without the Force aiding Luke's aim and timing. If it wasn't for the Force, the exhaust port would be impossible to hit - so it probably didn't make the designers consider it a weakness. Still, Tarkin should have listened to Chief Bast and evacuated when he had the chance. But who knows... maybe it was for the better. One less arrogant officer in the fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 Tarkin was a good, loyal man, however, it wouldn't have been impossible to hit the vent without the force... just highly improbable, there is a distinct difference. Wedge or Baron Soontir Fel could have done it IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Wedge couldn't even make it all the way through the trench run, let alone hit the exhaust port What I never really understood about their attack plan was the whole flying through the trench plan.. Why didn't they approach the exhaust port from a perpendicular angle and then had a straight shot into it? The Rebels are poor tacticians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 Originally posted by .:CoupeS:. He didn't release the info abouth the first Death Star, he only did this with the second one because it was part of his plan. This way he could trick the Alliance into thinking the Death Star was vulnerable and get them into a trap. uhh, we were talking about endor... and everyone says he didn't have the fighter support he needed at yavin... BTW Originally posted by ET Warrior Wedge couldn't even make it all the way through the trench run, let alone hit the exhaust port What I never really understood about their attack plan was the whole flying through the trench plan.. Why didn't they approach the exhaust port from a perpendicular angle and then had a straight shot into it? The Rebels are poor tacticians now, lets think about the problems with flying in perpendicular: You would leave yourself very open to the surface guns, they would slaughter you, after you fired, you would have to pull out, and then reverse direction, so the would have had to pull out into the trench, even worse IMO... Or they could pull out and get slaughtered by the surface guns again... sounds dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 because if they had flown straight at it all the surface guns could have blown them out of the air with little or no difficulty. It seems that the computer had miscalculated, not that the pilots couldn't get the timing right (not to say they could without it), and it is possible that they do it without the force, but as RC said, very unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 They had to come into the Death star at a perpendicular angle no matter how they did to get into the trench. It's a sphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 ever hear of a tangent?, or , for that matter, any angle less than 90 degrees, take a ball, and hold a pen tip to it, you can change the angle of the pen and still keep the pen touching.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Yeah, but if a ball has a hole in it, then that hole is gonna be a lot bigger when viewed from the top then the side. It also has a little bit of a different effect when the ball is big enough to look like it is flat. And if you were trying to stick a pen through the hole, it would be a lot easier from above. I'm sticking with the turbolaser evasion theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 i was just saying that there are other ways to approach a sphere then just perpendicular like ET warrior said. yes you would have the biggest target, but it would be stupid, you would be dead very very quickly, plus, the trench is so cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 You can come in tangent to a POINT on the sphere, but you're still going to be perpendicular to two other points on it, no matter your approach. I'm not saying the trrench run shouldn't have happened because it was awesome, I'm just saying it would have been alot easier if the alliance would've straight shotted it in there. They could've evaded the surface guns on the attack run in just as easily as they did when they were on approach to the deathstar, which you'll note netted them no casualties. It wasn't until they were flying parallel with the surface that they actually started dying from turbolaser fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant_kettch Posted October 15, 2004 Author Share Posted October 15, 2004 because they were then close enough for accurate TL fire, and many crashed, however, coming in perpendicular, every TL on the hempisphere could kill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 there is a difference between the approach and actually taking a perpendicular shot. if they had tryed to hit it perpendicular, than they would have to line up the shot, so they would not be able to evade. that is why the turbolasers could not hit them, they do not turn fast enough. if the person is flying straight, you know exactly where they are gonna go, so you just wait for them to get in your crosshairs, then fire away. also, if the torpedo was fired above the surface, it could have been easily intercepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 And yet they flew in very straight lines through the trench and were not hit......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 first off, the trench actually allowed for a lot more maneuvering than would be possible in setting up a 2 meter wide target. second, the pupose of the trench (for the Alliance) is that it is below all but the gun emplacements that are in the trench, so very few would be able to shoot at them. and finally, the guns stopped shooting because the TIEs might have been hit. what I said about the lasers having better shots, also goes for the TIEs who did get a lot of kills in the trench, but would have it even easier if the fighters had come in perpendicular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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