Elijah Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog How old was she? 17? 24-17=7 year age difference. by the time the girl is 70 he will be 77, not that big age difference. Just becuase she is below the "oficial" 18 year old mark doesn't mean she isn't capable of sound judgement. if she were allowed more freedom, she might have made the right choices. but seeing her freinds out having fun and believing she should too must have drove her mad. Are you blind? Look around you, the highest pregnancy rate, is teens, the highest STD rate is teens, the Highest drug use, and abuse, is teens, nearly every substance that can be abused, is abused by teens, and you some how think that her mother should have trusted her, even with the attitude she had? And out of love for her daughter, and not wanting her to become part of those statistics, she was a bad mother? I admit, killing her was a bit extreme, but you have to admit that the "mommy" rules were too airtight to breathe. Maybie the mother didn't handle it right. I would understand if the 24 year old guy were a creepy goth punk.The POINT of my other post was NO, they were NOT to airtight, they were not that unreasonable, MANY parents don’t want their daughters sleeping with their boyfriends, that is in NO WAY a strange thing to ask of your kids. The girl has her own rebellious problems and proved it by killing her mother, if she was the trust worth child you speak of, needless as to what her parents did, she would have respected them. My parents were strict, stricter than this girls mother, and I give EVERY bit of respect to them, because I AM who I AM because of it, and I thank them for that. What kind of party were you going to? If you had gone, you could have left if you saw them doing something illeagal.Do you know how many teens I know will the balls to do that? When all their friends are doing something, and they just leave? yea about 2, besides myself, and I know a lot of people. I was never like that when I was a teen. Not all teens are stupid. when I was a teen I studies and planned for the future.Some how I believe your not telling the truth, because your obvious blindness for this generation is apparent. EDIT: All i'm saying is the mom could have contributed to this too. there are drunk child abusers. for all we know she was one of them. and for all we know, she was an amazing woman who had her life stolen by an ungrateful little punk ass girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeleneRayne Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 This is just horrible. Her mother...her own mother. My mother didn't let me stay with Kain until I was of age and I had some type of protection. Only because she LOVES and wants nothing harmful to happen to me. That was obviously what the mother was trying to do for her child. She cared for her and for what, to die by her own hand. Truly a sad thing to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 3, 2004 Share Posted December 3, 2004 Originally posted by SeleneRayne This is just horrible. Her mother...her own mother. My mother didn't let me stay with Kain until I was of age and I had some type of protection. Only because she LOVES and wants nothing harmful to happen to me. That was obviously what the mother was trying to do for her child. She cared for her and for what, to die by her own hand. Truly a sad thing to happen. Well, you are of course correct there are circumstances however when going up against your parents is justified, maybe even up to the level of murder but i personally cant imagine the circumstances myself. but this most certainly was not such a case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 3, 2004 Author Share Posted December 3, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah Well, you are of course correct there are circumstances however when going up against your parents is justified, maybe even up to the level of murder but i personally cant imagine the circumstances myself. but this most certainly was not such a case murder isn't justifiable. Because murder is killing for the sheer joy of killing. Killing via self-defense is fine though. Sorry, just had to correct your words. Precisely at ZDawg and his talk of she was a good mother that had her life taken by an ingrateful little child/prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by Elijah Are you blind? Look around you, the highest pregnancy rate, is teens, the highest STD rate is teens, the Highest drug use, and abuse, is teens, nearly every substance that can be abused, is abused by teens, and you some how think that her mother should have trusted her, even with the attitude she had? And out of love for her daughter, and not wanting her to become part of those statistics, she was a bad mother? The POINT of my other post was NO, they were NOT to airtight, they were not that unreasonable, MANY parents don’t want their daughters sleeping with their boyfriends, that is in NO WAY a strange thing to ask of your kids. The girl has her own rebellious problems and proved it by killing her mother, if she was the trust worth child you speak of, needless as to what her parents did, she would have respected them. My parents were strict, stricter than this girls mother, and I give EVERY bit of respect to them, because I AM who I AM because of it, and I thank them for that. Just becuase she went to a party with a boy don't mean she will SLEEP with him. Originally posted by Elijah Some how I believe your not telling the truth, because your obvious blindness for this generation is apparent. since i can't prove it though the forums, you have to take my word for it. (I didn't even get a girl, I din't even get a single freak'n DATE! girls din't like me.That is probably why I din't even come close to sleeping with anybody.) My high school had thousands of teens and I only saw ONE who got pregnant. some high pregnancy. Originally posted by Elijah and for all we know, she was an amazing woman who had her life stolen by an ungrateful little punk ass girl. That is just an assumption. Never assume. "ASSUME" makes an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME". (my favorite quote from Spider Al) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 "ASSUME" makes an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME". (my favorite quote from Spider Al) Just becuase she went to a party with a boy don't mean she will SLEEP with him. Parent's don't know that their kid will or will not sleep with another person. Best they can do is restrict it. You say you only saw one who got pregnant. Does that make it any better for parents to know that their daughters are whoring themselves out, but only one unlucky kid just happened to get pregnant. 8| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by InsaneSith murder isn't justifiable. Because murder is killing for the sheer joy of killing. Killing via self-defense is fine though. Sorry, just had to correct your words. murder is for the sheer joy of killing? only in your opinion, there can be good reasons for murder. My ex girlfriend for instance has a damn good reason to kill her mother, and if she ever did so i'd see nothing wrong with it (annoyingly since i cant go into the reasons, that example isnt as strong as id like it to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Through that "good reason" (which I find unlikely, I might add) you become happy that you killed someone. This euphoria hides the truth from your eyes. You don't really realize the circumstances of your decision till after it sinks in that you have taken another's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by Mike Windu Through that "good reason" (which I find unlikely, I might add) you become happy that you killed someone. This euphoria hides the truth from your eyes. You don't really realize the circumstances of your decision till after it sinks in that you have taken another's life. She wouldnt be happy if she did it, it would make her feel worse. but, in comparison to what has happened to her, no death that she could inflict on her mother would come close to the pain that her mother inflicted on her, she would never be happy if she did it, and i can only fathom that to be the only reason she has not only not done it, but attempted no harm on her mother in any way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by Mike Windu Parent's don't know that their kid will or will not sleep with another person. Best they can do is restrict it. You say you only saw one who got pregnant. Does that make it any better for parents to know that their daughters are whoring themselves out, but only one unlucky kid just happened to get pregnant. 8| So you just keep kids locked up in their rooms in fear of premature intercourse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog So you just keep kids locked up in their rooms in fear of premature intercourse? she wasnt that extreme - for one thing the very fact the girl had a boyfriend at all shows her mother allowed her a social life. no i just think the mother showed due care and attention to her child and got killed for it. very tragic in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah she wasnt that extreme - for one thing the very fact the girl had a boyfriend at all shows her mother allowed her a social life. She still could have had a boyfriend in school when she is not at home where her mother can't keep them away. although being 24 and still in school, you'd have to have been get held back an awful lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 4, 2004 Share Posted December 4, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog She still could have had a boyfriend in school when she is not at home where her mother can't keep them away. although being 24 and still in school, you'd have to have been get held back an awful lot. as far as im aware, her mother didnt allow her to sleep over at his house, and if i were a parent id make exactly the same choice as well. But nowhere did i find anything that said she was forbidden to have this boyfriend at all but even if she was its not unreasonable for a parent to be concerned about a relationship between their 16 year old daughter and a 24 year old man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah murder is for the sheer joy of killing? I think you miss IS's point (correct me if I missed the point). I think he means that murder is by definition not justifiable. Killing is not synonymous with murder. If I'm not mistaken, murder is defined only by the legal definition of what it means to committ a murder. Killing in self-defense for example, is not a murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin I think you miss IS's point (correct me if I missed the point). I think he means that murder is by definition not justifiable. Killing is not synonymous with murder. If I'm not mistaken, murder is defined only by the legal definition of what it means to committ a murder. Killing in self-defense for example, is not a murder. precisely. and no, all the mother did was forbid the little slut from staying the night at her boyfriends house. The girl herself emphasized that point in her livejournal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin I think you miss IS's point (correct me if I missed the point). I think he means that murder is by definition not justifiable. Killing is not synonymous with murder. If I'm not mistaken, murder is defined only by the legal definition of what it means to committ a murder. Killing in self-defense for example, is not a murder. well i maintain there are circumstances in my view where murder could be understood at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Originally posted by Leper Messiah as far as im aware, her mother didnt allow her to sleep over at his house, and if i were a parent id make exactly the same choice as well. But nowhere did i find anything that said she was forbidden to have this boyfriend at all but even if she was its not unreasonable for a parent to be concerned about a relationship between their 16 year old daughter and a 24 year old man maybie the mother didn't know she HAD that boyfriend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog maybie the mother didn't know she HAD that boyfriend. she did, thats why she wouldnt let her stay over at his house. I read quite a way back in the journal before it was taken down, and it gave no suggestion she was concealing her relationship. There was just no justification in this case for murder, none at all. The girl deserves to be properly punished for the crime she committed, there are no mitigating circumstances here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 since you know more about this than I do, I suppose you have the better viewpoint. those are good points you made. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leper Messiah Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog since you know more about this than I do, I suppose you have the better viewpoint. those are good points you made. thanks. well i dont claim to know everything about the girl, i just had the benefit of reading some of the journal. Oftentimes she seemed very aware she was writing for an audience so anything she says can be taken with a pinch of salt. you may be right after all - its not inconcievable that the mother did abuse her in some way, but based on the little i have seen i deem it unlikely and the crime was unwarrented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Originally posted by kipperthefrog Just becuase she went to a party with a boy don't mean she will SLEEP with him. A party is the best enviroment for peer pressure to work at its greatest. Do not be so blind. since i can't prove it though the forums, you have to take my word for it. (I didn't even get a girl, I din't even get a single freak'n DATE! girls din't like me.That is probably why I din't even come close to sleeping with anybody.) My high school had thousands of teens and I only saw ONE who got pregnant. some high pregnancy. You do realize that 90% of all girls who become pregnant while still in school are either asked to leave school or are taken out by parents? Never assume, it makes an ass out of both of us. That is just an assumption. Never assume. "ASSUME" makes an "ASS" out of "U" and "ME". (my favorite quote from Spider Al) *cough hyporcite cough* Good job assuming her mother was such a bad person who deserved to be murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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