rut-wa jodar Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Why did Luke go to Jabba`s palace,unarmed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 He probably was overconfident and though he was already powerful enough with the force. Remember, he easily got passed those 2 gammoreans. Then just before he fell in the rancor pit he tried to steal a guard's blaster via the force... I think however, the best reason was already stated by TK. He gave his saber to R2 so he could get it back later. If he had kept it on, Jabba's guards would have stripped it off him when they threw him in his cell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Originally posted by coupes. I think however, the best reason was already stated by TK. He gave his saber to R2 so he could get it back later. If he had kept it on, Jabba's guards would have stripped it off him when they threw him in his cell... this is exactly true. The ROTJ novelisation states as much mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Solo Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 I think that is right. He wasn't in fear without a weapon because he knews that he is already stronger than Jabba's guard pigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pho3nix Posted January 1, 2005 Share Posted January 1, 2005 Yeah, it was part of his plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybroom Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 He also thought that he could mind trick jabba like he did the twileck guy who I can't remember his name. Luke thought he could get in --> mind trick jabba --> get han, chewie and leia --> get out simple!!! I think not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 not likely. it is doubtful that he expected to be able to cause Jabba to cooperate. if Jabba did cooperate, then Luke would have given up Artoo and Threepio. Unless he intended to make him give the gift back too. Not very Jedily of him though. btw, the Twi'lek is Bib Fortuna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Solo Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by guybroom He also thought that he could mind trick jabba like he did the twileck guy who I can't remember his name. Luke thought he could get in --> mind trick jabba --> get han, chewie and leia --> get out simple!!! I think not That is good. It can also be that he overrated himself because he had no experiences. Was he a fuel Jedi at this moment? I cannot remember at time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 The saber was his contingency plan. Luke knew (or would probably have guessed) that he would have been stripped of his weapon, if not simply to gain an audience with Jabba then definitely if taken prisoner. He figured he could get Solo and Chewie through peaceful means, bargining if possibly and mind-tricking if necessary. If those means failed, he could fall back on the Force to help him in combat (Force Choke, telekinetics on the blaster). In any event, he kept the saber hidden for use as a weapon of last resort. Granted it almost cost him his life in the Rancor pit. Makes me wonder if he'd done enough research to know whether R2 was in Jabba's palace or on the sail barge... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-wa jodar Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by Kryllith The saber was his contingency plan. Luke knew (or would probably have guessed) that he would have been stripped of his weapon, if not simply to gain an audience with Jabba then definitely if taken prisoner. He figured he could get Solo and Chewie through peaceful means, bargining if possibly and mind-tricking if necessary. If those means failed, he could fall back on the Force to help him in combat (Force Choke, telekinetics on the blaster). In any event, he kept the saber hidden for use as a weapon of last resort. Granted it almost cost him his life in the Rancor pit. Makes me wonder if he'd done enough research to know whether R2 was in Jabba's palace or on the sail barge... Kryllith I think this is the best explanation i`ve heard. BTW! I always thought that Force choke/grip was a darkside force power, weren`t Jedi only allowed to use lightside force powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Luke reformed the entire Jedi code, heck, he even got married in EU. I actually wonder, WHY is jabba immune to the force? Don't hutts have midichlorians or something? Or maybe it's a psychological thing? hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shok_Tinoktin Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 All living things have midichlorians. Hutts are strong minded, and thus cannot be so easily influenced with the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Dark Jedi Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 He went in as his plan. What he did was go in unarmed to Jabba then got thrown into the Rancor Pit. He got taken to the Saarlac and got his saber back and killed everyone. Simple. And it is amazing he planned this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupes. Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by rut-wa jodar BTW! I always thought that Force choke/grip was a darkside force power, weren`t Jedi only allowed to use lightside force powers? Luke was slipping towards the dark side at this point I beleive. Remember, Obi-Wan was dead and he hadn't visited Yoda in a while... So he basically had to learn a lot of stuff by himself, sometimes not doing so the "right" way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 And he wasn't doing that so much as an attack, but as a defense. Thus not dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybroom Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 He was using it as an attack, he could have force pushed them if they attacked him. and kyle katarn in JA uses force lightning as an attack, so i'm not sure it's all darkside, just the way you use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by guybroom He was using it as an attack, he could have force pushed them if they attacked him. that would've made noise, causing panic and then he would've been in trouble. So no, he couldn't force push. Originally posted by guybroom and kyle katarn in JA uses force lightning as an attack, so i'm not sure it's all darkside, just the way you use it. using the force for attack and dominating one weaker than you constitutes using the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedispy Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Luke went unarmed by mere mortal standards. However he was armed with the greatest weapon, the force. Mere blasters are nothing against the cunning of a Jedi. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybroom Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 I disagree - a blaster in the chest is a blaster in the chest. Period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedispy Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 a blaster in the chest is a blaster in the chest. Ah but what if the blast to the chest was ineffective? Using primary canonical sources (ie NO EU), we can see that blasters can be ineffective to a Jedi. Vader was able to block blasts with his hands in ESB. No lightsaber, just pure force absorption (sp?). Since, at the time of the OT, Emperor P & Yoda were more powerful than DV, it can be reasonably assumed that they had this power too. Darth Vader was not a Jedi Master, so it is logical to follow that any Jedi can do it, assuming that their midichlorian count is high enough. If we were to place this blaster blocking ability into Jedi Academy, then he would have had force protection all the way maxed up (even more than possible). Since Luke was the son of the 'Son of Suns' (eh...would that make him the Grandson of Suns??) it would only stand to reason that he too would be able to (eventually) perform the same trick. As for midichlorian count, Vader and Emperor P both acknowledged that this one padawan (in ANH and ESB) was strong in the force, and had the ability to destroy them both. Again, quoting only primary canon (no EU) you have to admit that Luke's force potential was powerful, enough to kill both Darth Vader and Emperor P (even if that's not what happens in the end). To contradict Han Solo, my point is: A good blaster at your side is no match for hokey religions and ancient weapons. Exclamation point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guybroom Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by jedispy Ah but what if the blast to the chest was ineffective? Using primary canonical sources (ie NO EU), we can see that blasters can be ineffective to a Jedi. Vader was able to block blasts with his hands in ESB. No lightsaber, just pure force absorption (sp?). Since, at the time of the OT, Emperor P & Yoda were more powerful than DV, it can be reasonably assumed that they had this power too. Darth Vader was not a Jedi Master, so it is logical to follow that any Jedi can do it, assuming that their midichlorian count is high enough. [blah blah] Exclamation point. Vader had a suit on - surly that helped him Exclamation point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by guybroom Vader had a suit on - surly that helped him Nope, it was his use of the force that absorbed the blaster fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedispy Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Yes yes...to Insane Sith you listen! Now based on EU, it has been argued that since Anakin was the Son of suns, that he had the same ability that Corran Horn has (that energy force recharge thingy....o.k. so I can't remember what it's called). However that's based on EU, and therefore has no canonical support. Getting back to the point, I think Luke's biggest reason why he didn't carry any weapons is because he had: 1. The force. 2. Confidence in the force. For a Jedi, circumstances are rarely an if scenario, but a when scenario. Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Qui Gonn didn't foresee his own death. Ampersand (eh....running out of punctuation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by InsaneSith that would've made noise, causing panic and then he would've been in trouble. So no, he couldn't force push. using the force for attack and dominating one weaker than you constitutes using the dark side. Were the Jedi in AOTC or TPM using the Dark Side when they were force pushing Battledroids with furious abandon? Or is the principle of "self defense" (ie: let the other guy take the first swing, then go all out) applied here, like in the ending to Jedi Knight? What about the concept of "pre-emption" being tossed around in political circles today with the Iraq war and other instances of US foreign policy. Since Jedi can forsee the future, does that mean they can take pre-emptive action against threats? What's the difference between using the Force to knock somebody down or choke them, vs. using the Force to guide your lightsaber to cut that person in half? I'm not saying there's an easy answer, I'm just curious what people's thoughts are. As to Luke's going into Jabba's unarmed, a lot of us thought that this was the "pure Jedi way" back in the day. That violence is always a last resort with the diplomatic Jedi or something. While they do use diplomacy in the prequels, we never see Jedi entering a situation without their lightsabers, even the supposedly wise and powerful ones like Yoda and Qui Gon Jinn. Is Luke wiser and more powerful than they are? Yoda uses the Force for attack in AOTC. Some say he was being defensive, because Dooku attacked him first, etc etc. Yoda is the one from whom all this "never for attack" stuff comes from. It could be that Yoda has changed his mind and thinks he was wrong about the Force in the past, and is trying to correct his teachings so that Luke will be a new type of Jedi. I see it differently now. I see it more like Luke was looking at various possible futures, and in the one where his friends lived to be rescued he had to do it this way. In other words this was the most likely path to success. Plus it gave him the moral high ground because he could then say that he tried diplomacy first, and violence second. If you read any of the Frank Herbert's Dune novels you'll see a good example of what I'm talking about. As to Jedi taking blaster fire.... Vader is the only Jedi we've seen canonically (G-level canon) block/deflect blaster fire without a lightsaber. In AOTC the Jedi take heavy losses against a Force armed primarily with blasters. We learned two things from that film: massed firepower and distractions can cause Jedi to die. So I'm thinking it takes an exceptional or experienced and lucky Jedi to be able to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Originally posted by Kurgan Were the Jedi in AOTC or TPM using the Dark Side when they were force pushing Battledroids with furious abandon? Or is the principle of "self defense" (ie: let the other guy take the first swing, then go all out) applied here, like in the ending to Jedi Knight? It's applied here as their doing so was in means to protect the people of the Republic. Originally posted by Kurgan Since Jedi can forsee the future, does that mean they can take pre-emptive action against threats? I'd assume only with the councils agreement could they do a pre-emptive strike. Originally posted by Kurgan What's the difference between using the Force to knock somebody down or choke them, vs. using the Force to guide your lightsaber to cut that person in half? If you're doing it only so you could destroy them it's dark side. As it's a very sadist kind of thing. But if it's your only (or simplest) option of eliminating an enemy, it's on the line. Because you're still attacking with your power, but because you're doing it for the greater good, it's a bit on the line. So I'd say that'd be a very dark-jed/anti-hero kind of thing. Originally posted by Kurgan As to Luke's going into Jabba's unarmed, a lot of us thought that this was the "pure Jedi way" back in the day. That violence is always a last resort with the diplomatic Jedi or something. While they do use diplomacy in the prequels, we never see Jedi entering a situation without their lightsabers, even the supposedly wise and powerful ones like Yoda and Qui Gon Jinn. Is Luke wiser and more powerful than they are? I say it's Luke wanted to test himself for his conflict with Vader. If he could take get out of Jabba's alive with force only, he would find himself more confident in facing Vader. But probably gave his lightsaber to R2 as a precautionary tactic just incase he couldn't handle it yet. I say he did rather well, as I'm sure some lesser jedi have perished from situations like that. Originally posted by Kurgan Yoda uses the Force for attack in AOTC. Some say he was being defensive, because Dooku attacked him first, etc etc. Yoda is the one from whom all this "never for attack" stuff comes from. It could be that Yoda has changed his mind and thinks he was wrong about the Force in the past, and is trying to correct his teachings so that Luke will be a new type of Jedi. I'm assuming you mean the using the force when he's in the lightsaber duel with Dooku and he's bouncing around. Using the force is part of that style, and considering Yoda's age that was his best means of movement. If you mean when Dooku did force lightning, Yoda was doing a reflective technique. He absorbed the energy and reflected it back. All was done in defense of the young jedis, Obi-wan and Anakin. Originally posted by Kurgan I see it differently now. I see it more like Luke was looking at various possible futures, and in the one where his friends lived to be rescued he had to do it this way. In other words this was the most likely path to success. Plus it gave him the moral high ground because he could then say that he tried diplomacy first, and violence second. If you read any of the Frank Herbert's Dune novels you'll see a good example of what I'm talking about. Indeed. What he did was diplomacy, but I don't think thats the reason he went without a lightsaber. See my response given above. (It could be but it's not my thought at this point in time) Originally posted by Kurgan As to Jedi taking blaster fire.... Vader is the only Jedi we've seen canonically (G-level canon) block/deflect blaster fire without a lightsaber. In AOTC the Jedi take heavy losses against a Force armed primarily with blasters. We learned two things from that film: massed firepower and distractions can cause Jedi to die. Indeed, and we have to take into account that Vader/Anakin, is the chosen one. This could play heavily in the ability to use the force to block blaster fire. Also yes, any jedi with lack of concentration will meet their end, especially when outnumbered. We know this from the teachings of Yoda, that to use the force effectively you must concentrate. And I'm guessing that when you become a jedi master it's because you've found yourself capable of concentration in even the most intense situations, which is probably why meditation is a high priority for jedi. Originally posted by Kurgan So I'm thinking it takes an exceptional or experienced and lucky Jedi to be able to do that. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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