Where Obsidian(eh, Lucasarts) went wrong... My constructive thoughts. (Spoilers)

[NenDaiKi]

I believe that although the influence system was a good idea, it was obviously unfinished and tore down many parts of the game. To this date I do not know if my first time through was not as fulfilling as it should have been because I was told too LITTLE of the story, or because I learned too much early on.

 

I just read a topic that implies most people

don't see the Malachor 5 cutscene with Traya early on, whereas I saw it while at Telos.

I can't imagine how the game would have played out had I not seen that. However, immediately after playing it I thought I knew too LITTLE.

 

The feeling of knowing too little comes from the influence system. The influence system should ENHANCE the storyline, but instead it is necessary. A first time player will almost certainly not understand the right way to go about things and end up like me and many others.

 

On the other side of this, if you DO know how to get by with the influence system, the character's entire story gets thrown at you in one conversation. These are the big problems.

 

In KOTOR1, you were guaranteed the important information about characters, but it would not be spilled out at once, taking away the character's personality for the rest of the game. By the time you got through all of the character's story in KOTOR1, you were headed to fight Malak. That is where the story is borked. Now, for the small but noticeable stuff...

 

This stuff basically comes down to something similar to above. The dialogues are IN NO WAY finished. Bioware had everything fine tuned, but Obsidian's game screams "Finish me!!". Immediately after waking HK47's ass up, you can talk to him again and he'll act like he's been with you for weeks. There are many such problems, and they made my experience far less enjoyable. However, I maintain that underneath it, they did not screw up the great story Bioware started. The problem lies in the fact that you will have to play through multiple times to reall understand what the hell happened.

 

Personally, if they fixed this for the PC release, I think it would be a nice gesture on Lucasarts part to give free copies to owners of the XBox version to make up for rushing the sequel to the greatest game ever. But that is wishful thinking.

 

How do you guys feel? And if anyone knows about the PC release, chime in with some info, cause I am beginning to regret I got impatient and got the XBox version. :|

 

I still love it though!!!

[Master Zalius]

I think your right. I haven't had a chance to play the game over again since I my first time through because of school but I growing impatient to play it again because I just want to go back and redo a lot of what I missed to try to unlock more of the game. I never saw the Malachor cutscene and I'm curious to find that next time through. I didn't grasp the influence system at all till very far down the road when I started to find that valuable information was being lost because of previous dialogues.

 

I whole heartedly agree that Xbox users should recieve a free copy of the fixed (completed) version as it comes to be because I noticed many bugs and some lockups along the way (mostly in my adventures through the START MENU screen).

[Drazin]

I think the influence system, while not perfect was an excellent addition to the game which helped to immerse you in the story and make you feel more like a part of the group instead of a spectator. I will not deny there are a few problems concerning it, but that is expected when something is done for the first time.

 

The replay value of the 2nd game is much better than the first by a wide margin. I think it is mainly due to the influence system and being able to recieve different dialogue responses and actions through different choices each time.

 

I highly doubt there will be any free issues of the game being released, but perhaps a downloadable patch to correct things will be available. I only wish I could download them from my PC and burn them to disc for my Xbox, because to be honest... I am not paying for a 1.5M DSL line for my PC and the costs for an Xbox as well.

 

I just really enjoyed this sequel and despite its glitches and bugs I believe it has improved upon its predecessor and made for a more immersive game. I only wish the storyline itself had quite the impact that the first game had, the plot twist that made you jaw drop just wasn't there in the second.

[dumac]

i found glitches with influence so i can see the cutscene with traya

[90SK]

I agree, though I think you can thank Microsoft for the rushed release. If you recall the devs mentioned several times that they were planning on a combined release in Feb.

[NenDaiKi]

Yeah, and I had bought the PC version of KOTOR 1, so I was fully planning on getting the PC version of KOTOR 2. I got impatient, but I didn't expect a bumped up release to mean this.

 

Something deep inside makes me wonder if they could have fixed so much by February. Something else makes me suspect if they hadn't been hassled and were free to decide on the release themselves, they may have waited longer if the Feb release wasn't up to standards. Funny like that...

 

 

I've heard about the HK factory since coming here, and now I notice where it is mentioned in game. It makes me angry to know this was left out, but does anyone know if it was a scrapped design like the astrogation droid guy, or if they ran out of time due to being rushed?

 

 

One thing I cling onto is that the original promised downloadable content but never got any. In KOTOR 2, patches and such could be the key to redemption. I pray I can play this game as it was meant to be played one day.

[Montross87]

The HK factory quest was about 90% done (diologue for the HK droids and everything) all that was really left was a few designers notes. The HK factor was HUGE! It was like the size of the regualr military base, but 2x that size.

It was most definitely scrapped do to it being rushed, very dissapointing indeed.

[tk102]

Hope it makes it into the PC version then.

[stingerhs]

the best thing to do with any game release is to hope for the best, even if a release on another system didn't turn out perfectly. whatever happens, just don't let your glass become half-empty when it comes to the pc version of tsl.

[Darth333]

Do not hope too much: Obsidian stated that there would not be additional content when the PC version is released *Darth333 hides from incoming tomatoes *

 

 

...but we'll take care of this soon enough at Holowan Labs.

[NenDaiKi]

Then KOTOR 2 has been forever scarred.

 

They could redeem themselves by adding it into KOTOR 3 though. The whole game of KOTOR 2 as it is leads into the future, never really solving anything. So the idea that you get dialogue about it now but never see it can be understood. GO-TO and HK47 leave it open ended. There are many ways to do it, so I won't go about mentioning them.

[Zonzai]

NenDakai,

 

I think most people found what you have said to be true of this game. And it is indeed Microsoft's fault. You can be as certain of their money-grubbing greed as snow in Antarctica. They say that love is blind, and sometimes those who love KOTOR will deny TSL's faults to the death but don't worry, years from now when we all look back at TSL we'll all be saying pretty much what you have just said.

 

Darth333,

 

I love you and all of the guys at Halowan Labs! You are the only reason that KOTOR2 still holds some hope for me. At least having such a bugged game will give you plenty of stuff to enhance.

[thebighirt]

I may get flamed for this but.... Jesus people, don't you think that we may be acting a tad bit spoiled about this whole thing? I mean, bloody hell, most reviewers have given it pretty damn high ratings, and yet everyone is saying "its the end of the series" oh my goodness "it wasn't perfect." The "devs owe us our money" blah blah blah. No offense, but its a bunch of bs. Get over it. The world isn't perfect, no game is perfect, and if the makers of the game (who but long hours working to try to make it good, especially since it is the company's first game) saw the "doomsayers" crap, then they probably say well, screw them, there's no reason to make a KOTOR III if that's the kind of response we get. I have no problem with people saying I don't think this was done well, or this part of the game could have been better, but when people start saying "this has forever tarnished the memory of KOTOR," GET REAL.

[FiEND_138]

^^

<---- Won't flame you. I agree with you to a point, but that just may be me...

 

Granted it could have used a bit more polish to get some of the "bugs" (which I have yet to experience, but everyone says are game-ending or it's riddled with) ironed out, but theres not a whole hell 'uva lot they could do when LA & MS were breathing down their necks for an X-Mas cash cow.

 

I also agree with statements like "forever tarnishing the memory of KotOR" are foolish. As you said, 'GET REAL'.

 

The dialogues are IN NO WAY finished. Bioware had everything fine tuned

O yes, Juhannis worked perfectly A-OK even after patch 1.03

 

Then KOTOR 2 has been forever scarred.

Why? They have to cut an area due to time constraints & that means we should tamper the dirt & flower the grave? Guess we should get our shovels back out for K1 & the cut planet Sleheyron, it's mentioned quite a bit & never seems to go anywhere.... As others have said if the files ship with the PC it may show back up in the game in some form. Granted, I wouldn't have minded them axing the now 'pointless' dialog, but atleast it gives something for lightsiders to talk to HK about without a loss of influence or DS gain.

 

I still love it though!!!

Glad to hear it. Atleast some of you're thoughts were constructive, not the usual bash fests I've grown sick of over at OE's boards.

 

The more I get an oppurtunity to play this chapter, the more I enjoy it over it's predecesor. Kudos to OE, & I truely hope they land the deal for / want to do the 3rd in the series.

 

 

*Hopes his drunken ramble makes some kind of sence*

[Achilles]

Originally posted by FiEND_138

*Hopes his drunken ramble makes some kind of sence*

Not bad for drunk. I gotta tell you; having spent the last 4 months in a hole (on purpose to avoid spoilers), I have to admit that I'm a little conflicted. On one hand I see reviews saying TSL is better than KotOR, 9 out of 10, 9.3, Game of the Year, etc, etc.

 

..and on the other, what appears to be an ocean of pissed off gamers. I'm not sure where the happy middle is, but it seems hard to believe that LA would have killed the goose that laid the Golden Egg so that x-mas 2004 would be good for stockholders. Don't get me wrong, they're all greedy, but spoil the franchise? I guess I'll just have to see for myself in a few weeks.

[FiEND_138]

^^

I wouldn't worry, just leave expectaions at the door & enjoy the ride.

 

& you'll be playing it on PC & as I recall the devs saying it would be "a more polished game".

 

[NenDaiKi]

Now they're saying it will be fixed?

 

Anyway, I'm not gonna argue with you people who disagree. Like I said, it is still a great game, but the fact that it is a very much unfinished game still remains.

[SpaceAlex]

Originally posted by Achilles

Not bad for drunk. I gotta tell you; having spent the last 4 months in a hole (on purpose to avoid spoilers), I have to admit that I'm a little conflicted. On one hand I see reviews saying TSL is better than KotOR, 9 out of 10, 9.3, Game of the Year, etc, etc.

 

..and on the other, what appears to be an ocean of pissed off gamers. I'm not sure where the happy middle is, but it seems hard to believe that LA would have killed the goose that laid the Golden Egg so that x-mas 2004 would be good for stockholders. Don't get me wrong, they're all greedy, but spoil the franchise? I guess I'll just have to see for myself in a few weeks.

 

I'm confused aswell. Some say it's a great game and that everyone should play it, others say it's incomplete and buggy.

So i've came to a decision. I'm gonna buy the game and decide for myself.

I get a feeling i will like the game though. Maybe even more than the first one.

[NenDaiKi]

You'll definitely love the game. But you'll wanna kill someone when you realize how much better it would have been had it been polished. A lot of confusion in the storyline stems from buggy dialogues.

 

I liken it to Goldeneye on the N64. Anyone who knows all the stuff that was found in that game via the Gameshark understands what I'm getting at. That was the GREATEST FPS of its time, but we still wanted all the stuff they cut out. In this case however, it was a rushed release schedule that messed it up. There really wasn't that much left out, again. I still maintain my main problem is the polish.

[FiEND_138]

Originally posted by NenDaiKi

Now they're saying it will be fixed?

When all the yelling began about spliting the releases, the devs said when questioned about the differences between Dec. - Feb. that "the PC & international versions would be a more polished game". I'd post a link, but I don't feel like digging through pages over at OE's board.

[Zonzai]

I'll explain exactly why fans "seem to" dislike this one. When KOTOR1 came out there weren't many good rpg's for xbox. And there weren't even many games only for xbox that were truly great. Needless to say, it was a great game, not exactly revolutionary but still great. It's greatness was due to the Star Wars universe, Bioware's massive rpg experience and the truly impressive story. On top of those strengths it was spit-shined and polished to a glistening glow now legendary among the RPG community. This is what we all expected from KOTOR2.

 

While it is Star Wars and the story is pretty good, it lacks Bioware's touch and (at least in the xbox version) anything resembling a spit-shine. Nobody expected a confusing plot with confusing dialogue and many glitches. We (for the most part) still love KOTOR2, but we are more than slightly dissapointed with the obvious lack of completion and startlingly screwy dialogue (which pretty much messed the plot up). And what's worse with everything that KOTOR1 had going for it we expected even better things from KOTOR2 - and there are better things, but the things that were so good before aren't as good this time around. That's where the fanboys (like myself) are at.

 

On one hand it is great and on the other it could have been truly phenomenal - it had the potential to be even better than KOTOR1 but fell flat. And all through the game that "could be truly great" is built up so much that it is undeniably amazing, and then... "splat"! I really don't like that splat part and sometimes it makes me as mad as some people seem get when they hear about how mad that makes me (and people who share my opinion).

[90SK]

I agree, pretty much with everything you just said. At least we have the consolation of knowing that PC version will have less glitches and more mods. Though, IMO, the story was (or is-whatever) fantastic, though confusing. It was nice that everything was slightly more seperate than the first one.

[FiEND_138]

Originally posted by C. Skye

IMO, the story was (or is-whatever) fantastic, though confusing. It was nice that everything was slightly more seperate than the first one.

I think thats what I enjoy most about it. The story is not black & white like the 1st one. I really like these grey areas where if you're not paying attention then your ummm..... lost (lack of a better word). As for those saying "glitch riddled dialog that screws the plot", I still have yet to experience anything of the sort (in regular game play as well). Now I'm not saying "bugs" aren't there (seems quite a few are experiencing the same glitches), but I have not experienced them myself, guess I'm just lucky like that.....

[montnoir]

This being my first post, I start off things saying "Hello everyone! You seem to have a nice and friendly place here".

 

Now for my 0,02$. As a computer RPG gamer I can safely testify to the fact that, RPG-s overall are not known for their bug-free shells. On the contrary, 98% of all released rpg-s were bug-ridden badly. Usually it takes apatch or two to get the bugs ironed out, but rpg-s in general are not exactly super-sellers, which usually means not more than a patch or two max. Which means they still remain somewhat bugged.

 

KOTOR1 was a super-seller, very much thanks to the Star Wars setting, not for it's groundbreaking roleplaying gameplay (because there was no groundbreaking roleplaying in it) and Bioware did a great job initially plus the extra SIX months, they had for the pc realease.

 

Anyway, my point is that bugs in rpg-s are as normal as stats in rpg-s and that is a fact.

 

In my first rpg, I was appalled and my second and my third, but when I got to my tenth and it was still as riddled with bugs as all others I realised that, that is just the way of things and now - I have grown so accustomed to bugs in rpg-s that I hardly even see them, much less remember them.

[Zonzai]

Originally posted by montnoir

This being my first post, I start off things saying "Hello everyone! You seem to have a nice and friendly place here".

 

Hello and welcome.

 

Originally posted by montnoir

As a computer RPG gamer I can safely testify to the fact that, RPG-s overall are not known for their bug-free shells. On the contrary, 98% of all released rpg-s were bug-ridden badly. Usually it takes apatch or two to get the bugs ironed out, but rpg-s in general are not exactly super-sellers, which usually means not more than a patch or two max. Which means they still remain somewhat bugged.

 

Anyway, my point is that bugs in rpg-s are as normal as stats in rpg-s and that is a fact.

 

And a buggy release is more acceptable if there will be updates for it and even moreso for an RPG - I agree completely. The problem with the Xbox version is that there won't be any patches. Micro$oft has made it very clear that Xbox Live will never support patches to fix bugged game releases. And since so many of the bugs that are in KOTOR2 weren't ever in KOTOR1, how they even made it into the game is another question entirely.

 

But yes, as soon as a patch is released for the PC version I will pick up KOTOR2 for the PC. Don't get me wrong, I love KOTOR2, I love it enough to buy it again even with all of it's flaws, I just hate that it could have been even better than KOTOR1 but M$ forced Obsidian into releasing an unfinished product (and I hate M$ too, but that's besides the point). The point is that a couple of months is all it would have taken to make KOTOR2 even better than it's predecessor. Which, with all of the hype before release and the few but cool details about the new things that were going to be added to the game, is what everybody expected it to be.

 

Now, let me just say, welcome again. I am only trying to explain why the original poster of this thread posted it. And also why people, such as myself, feel so strongly dissapointed in this game. My response is not intended to invalidate your point because it is a good one and I thank you for it. I just want everybody to have a clear understanding of everybody else's feelings on the subject. And if anybody feels that my own or anybody else's feelings are invalid they are just as entitled to feel that way as we are all entitled to feel however we like... or whatever. This is the disclaimer, that's all. And thanks for the post.