PoM Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 @Vlad: If you weren't so calm all the time, this thread would already have been locked for flaming. Anyway, i think we're actually starting to get off topic, and this is not the kind of thread i wan't locked.. So..Let's skip the "force" and "god" talk. This thread was actually about every humans natural abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 I'm back! NOW: An auras exist in the form of a magnetic field, but the belief that one can sense another's aura and come up with conclusions of their spiritual, emotional and physical aspect has never been proven. The magnetic field proves, in a way, that telekenesis might exist. And empathy is different, empathy consists of being sympathetic with a another person, trying to understand their reactions, emotions. Telekenesis is not always developed from birth... But empathy is born into people, and you can't deny empathy. Scientists have attempted to obtain evidence for telepathy. A pioneer in this effort was Joseph Banks Rhine of Duke University. In 1927, Rhine began conducting what are still considered the most famous experiments in this area. Rhine tested hundreds of people using specially designed cards developed by his colleague, Karl Zener. These so-called "ESP cards" consisted of a deck of 25 cards, five each with one of five figures on its face (a star, a cross, a square, a circle, or three wavy lines). After the cards were shuffled, subjects attempted to correctly guess the figure on the card after the figure was mentally "sent" to them by a person looking at it. The number of correct responses was then compared to chance. Through years of experiments, neither "senders" nor "receivers" of telepathic messages were ever discovered to be performing beyond chance. Hence the verdict: Telepathy doesn't exist. How did they conclude that? Details, DETAILS! How do we know that telepathy doesn't exist, if they didn't even say the resaults of the test. Perhaps you should try to prove the existence or the non-existence of God before. What the heck is wrong with you? Of course God doesn't exist! LINK:PROOF And cut this God disscusion CRAP! We're talking about the Force, which is consisted of emapthy telekenesis and connection to each other, should we start looking for the truth (since it is unknown), and who wants to? Do we want an answer to this question? OF COURSE WE WANT TO! I believe that the Force exists, one way or another, but just believing cannot confirm neither the existence nor non-existence. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, OR NO? well da science has proven that already You bet it has. @Vlad: If you weren't so calm all the time, this thread would already have been locked for flaming. I think that lukeiamyourdad will lose his temper long before anyone on this thread. Anyway, i think we're actually starting to get off topic, and this is not the kind of thread i wan't locked.. Yes, we are, so let's get back. And lukeiamyourdad, stop mentioning God PLEASE! So..Let's skip the "force" and "god" talk. Agreed. This thread was actually about every humans natural abilities. Yes, it is... The Force consists of those abilities. But the problem is: We don' know the truth. We don't know enough about this. This subject hasn't been explored enough, professionally. There is not enough evidence, proof or information to confirm anything. Yes I believe in the Force. But to know the truth, we need to start conducting some research ourselves. And to convince the scientific community to listen to us, and start some research themselves. It looks like that jedigoku has already started researching, so we should start too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada What the heck is wrong with you? Of course God doesn't exist! LINK:PROOF For once, I absolutely agree with you. I am a fanatical, hardcore Atheist. You don't need proof to show that god doesn't exist - it is rather obvious. Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada And to convince the scientific community to listen to us, and start some research themselves. They'd laugh at us. But, I suppose I can do some research, when I have time... College is piling more homework on these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by jedigoku dude scientist prove new stuff everyday why do you need proof of that So if the scientists some illogical crap, conclusion of a badly done research, it must be true is it? Are you sure you're asking questions instead of believing whatever is thrown at you? Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada The magnetic field proves, in a way, that telekenesis might exist. It proves nothing. A human's magnetic field is so low you won't get any "reading" unless you're less then an inch away, due in part to it's low magnitude and all the interference. Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada And empathy is different, empathy consists of being sympathetic with a another person, trying to understand their reactions, emotions. Telekenesis is not always developed from birth... But empathy is born into people, and you can't deny empathy. Because empathy is a supernatural power? Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada What the heck is wrong with you? Of course God doesn't exist! LINK:PROOF It proves nothing. Disproving christianity and the existence of an omnipotent God are two things different from each other. You CANNOT disprove that an omnipotent God controls our everyday life nor can you prove it. I mention God because He deserves to be mentioned. It's hypocrisy to deny God and believe in other metaphysical mumbo-jumbo. It shows no sign of critical thinking. Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada How did they conclude that? Details, DETAILS! How do we know that telepathy doesn't exist, if they didn't even say the resaults of the test. Through years of experiments, neither "senders" nor "receivers" of telepathic messages were ever discovered to be performing beyond chance. But seriously, how can you even say you're atheists? How can you say you don't believe in God and believe in telekinesis, telepathy and the such? You're not Atheists. You're anti-christians. That doesn't make you an atheist. How can you simply read a science article and automatically say it's accurate and scientifically proven if you haven't asked any questions about it? If you haven't looked for something that disproves it? And finally, God is totally relevent to the discussion since this is all about beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad But seriously, how can you even say you're atheists? How can you say you don't believe in God and believe in telekinesis, telepathy and the such? You're not Atheists. You're anti-christians. That doesn't make you an atheist. If someone believes god does not exist, and believes in telekinesis, they are still an atheist. An atheist is a person who believes god does not exist. Although I agree with you on how the force does not exist, the only thing you appear to do here is flame Vladimir. If you do not have anything to contribute to the discussion (or cannot say it without flaming someone) you should leave. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad So if the scientists some illogical crap, conclusion of a badly done research, it must be true is it? jedigoku never said that. He said that scientists come up with new stuff daily. He did not say, however, that all of it is true. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad Because empathy is a supernatural power? Please keep any sarcastic comments to yourself. We all know empathy is not supernatural. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad I mention God because He deserves to be mentioned. It's hypocrisy to deny God and believe in other metaphysical mumbo-jumbo. It shows no sign of critical thinking. Are you sure you know what a hypocrite is? A hypocrite is someone who does things he berates other people for doing. Believing in god and telekinises is not hypocrisy. Although I disagree with Vladimir about the force, try not to turn this thread into a flame war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by Emperor Devon If someone believes god does not exist, and believes in telekinesis, they are still an atheist. An atheist is a person who believes god does not exist. I know that. But an atheist would be somebody who uses critical thinking, by using that, he concludes that God does not exist. Yet here, critical thinking is applied to what somebody wants to apply it to, not everything. Originally posted by Emperor Devon Although I agree with you on how the force does not exist, the only thing you appear to do here is flame Vladimir. If you do not have anything to contribute to the discussion (or cannot say it without flaming someone) you should leave. Flaming someone and attacking his credibility are two different things. I flamed no one. Originally posted by Emperor Devon jedigoku never said that. He said that scientists come up with new stuff daily. He did not say, however, that all of it is true. He replied to this: Link? Source to back up the claim? with this: dude scientist prove new stuff everyday why do you need proof of that Make the connection. Originally posted by Emperor Devon Please keep any sarcastic comments to yourself. We all know empathy is not supernatural. Then why did someone include it in a discussion about supernatural abilities? Originally posted by Emperor Devon Are you sure you know what a hypocrite is? A hypocrite is someone who does things he berates other people for doing. Believing in god and telekinises is not hypocrisy. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hypocrisy He does it. Disproving God when he cannot be disproven and then turn back and claiming to believe in another supernatural thing is hypocrisy. Originally posted by Emperor Devon Although I disagree with Vladimir about the force, try not to turn this thread into a flame war. There is no flame war, since no one was flamed, nor did I truly insult someone. Saying their comments show hypocrisy is not flaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 So if the scientists some illogical crap, conclusion of a badly done research, it must be true is it? What is wrong with you? We are just disscusing do we want to know the truth or no; And now you're saying that even jedigoku is wrong?! Now lukeiamyourdad, if you continue like this, I'm seriously going to report you to a moderator. It proves nothing. A human's magnetic field is so low you won't get any "reading" unless you're less then an inch away, due in part to it's low magnitude and all the interference. Hey! Easy! We're trying to figure out is it true, not convincing each other not to believe in something we don't believe ourselves. Because empathy is a supernatural power? Emapthy is not that supernatural, all people can show commpaisson, care and understanding. It proves nothing. Disproving christianity and the existence of an omnipotent God are two things different from each other. If you're going to continue like this, I'm gonig to report you. You CANNOT disprove that an omnipotent God controls our everyday life nor can you prove it. I know I can't, but can YOU? But seriously, how can you even say you're atheists? How can you say you don't believe in God and believe in telekinesis, telepathy and the such? You're not Atheists. You're anti-christians. That doesn't make you an atheist. Are you serious??!! If someone believes god does not exist, and believes in telekinesis, they are still an atheist. An atheist is a person who believes god does not exist. Thank you, Devon. Although I agree with you on how the force does not exist, the only thing you appear to do here is flame Vladimir. If you do not have anything to contribute to the discussion (or cannot say it without flaming someone) you should leave. Like it is said: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. jedigoku never said that. He said that scientists come up with new stuff daily. He did not say, however, that all of it is true. Correct. Please keep any sarcastic comments to yourself. We all know empathy is not supernatural. You betcha'. Although I disagree with Vladimir about the force, try not to turn this thread into a flame war. I'll be calm, don't worry. I understand why lukeiamyourdad is mad, but... Can he calm down a bit, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Go ahead, report me. If you can't handle a debate, it's not my problem. I know I've done nothing special, except attacking your credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 I know that. But an atheist would be somebody who uses critical thinking, by using that, he concludes that God does not exist. Yet here, critical thinking is applied to what somebody wants to apply it to, not everything. That's not always true. Flaming someone and attacking his credibility are two different things. I flamed no one. Now you're using the same excuse I did at the begining of this thread. Then why did someone include it in a discussion about supernatural abilities? Because you are trying to divide people into super-natural and non-super-natural. And i don't like that. There is no flame war, since no one was flamed, nor did I truly insult someone. Same excuse I used. I know I've done nothing special, except attacking your credibility. Another excuse? Now that is just lame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I repeat the same excuse over and over again because it is what it is. In the Senate chambers, there has been much more heated debates that wasn't considred flaming at all. IMO, I flamed no one. Because you are trying to divide people into super-natural and non-super-natural. And i don't like that. Any reason? And you people are not using critical thinking or anything. My comparison to believing in God hasn't been succesfully refuted. It is a belief, not backed up by facts. The same thing here. It's a belief, backed up by no facts. If you truly wanted to apply anything scientific, you'd first look for facts, then believe. This time, it's exactly like what a religious man would do. I'm going to believe in God first, I'll look for proof later. You need the proof first before making any conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 And you people are not using critical thinking or anything. Maybe not yet. It comes with time, but I think that you are going too far, there is no need to attack anyone, just calm down. If you truly wanted to apply anything scientific, you'd first look for facts, then believe. Well THAT'S the PROBLEM! There is not enough facts. We need to find more facts. This time, it's exactly like what a religious man would do. I'm going to believe in God first, I'll look for proof later. Oh, come on. We are not going to force anybody to believe us. You need the proof first before making any conclusion. OF COURSE WE DO! THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad I know that. But an atheist would be somebody who uses critical thinking, by using that, he concludes that God does not exist. Critical thinking has no place in it. An atheist is a person who believes god does not exist, for whatever reason. I doesn't matter whether they apply any thinking at all to becoming an atheist. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad Then why did someone include it in a discussion about supernatural abilities? Vladimir thought it had some connection to the force, that's why he mentioned it. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad He does it. Disproving God when he cannot be disproven Let me pose a question to you about god: Where did he come from? Everything has a beginning. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad turn back and claiming to believe in another supernatural thing is hypocrisy. That's like saying an atheist isn't an atheist because he believes in UFOs. Religion and Supernaturality are two completely different things. Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad I know I've done nothing special, except attacking your credibility. Which is flaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Critical thinking has no place in it. An atheist is a person who believes god does not exist, for whatever reason. I doesn't matter whether they apply any thinking at all to becoming an atheist. Correct. Vladimir thought it had some connection to the force, that's why he mentioned it. You got it... He does it. Disproving God when he cannot be disproven He's a CHRISTIAN? THEN WHY DIDN'T HE FU****G SAY SO???!!! I wouldn't have insulted him that much, if he just said so. Then I am sorry for insulting you lukeiamyourdad. Let me pose a question to you about god: Where did he come from? Everything has a beginning. Just my point. That's like saying an atheist isn't an atheist because he believes in UFOs. Religion and Supernaturality are tow completely different things. You just read my thougths... That's what I wanted to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Which is flaming. Correct. All right... Can we now please drop this stupid does-God-exist-disscusion and start disscusing about the do we want to know the answer, truth, and do are we going to start researching. And before lukeiamyourdad starts flaminig anyone. I'll just say: DROP IT! The Force and God are not the same thing. And believing in the Force (all people have it) doesn't make you religious. End of story. Bye-bye. See you later. Now let's begin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada You just read my thougths... Curses. Now the world will know I'm telepathic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Curses. Now the world will know I'm telepathic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Kenobi Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 All this debate and insulting over "the force" which we all know is a non-realistic thing is hilarious Ole' Georgie thought it up in his head and that's the only place that it exists. Just as Marvel comics thought up the X-Men. Just cause they have powers in the comics doesn't mean people in the real world have "mutant powers." If that were the case there'd be a line at every toxic dump with crazies hopin' to get some cool powers by taking a toxic waste bath. :elephant: Aah now after the dancing pink elephants the mood is lightened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevanA4 Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 @ lukeiamyourdaddy incase you didn't know before the outside world hears about something that they have proven it is tested and retest many times so what do you want me to prove. @ everyone plz lets leave religion out of this thread @everyone I don't want this thread closed @Devon thanks for the support @Vladimir-Vlada I would be willing to do research but the reality of it is that we would be laughed at and anybody willing to listen to us wouldn't be anybody important in the scientific community @ those who want to do research picking a point at which to start would be a difficult task and I'm not saying this to put people down I'm very much a realist and have a ferm concept of what is possible and what is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 I don't see how attacking someone's credibility is flaming. Seriously, have you people ever been in a debate? Attacking one of the debater's credibility is far from anything uncommon and not even an insult. If you feel that your credibility is attacked, you must prove that you're a credible person. How is that flaming? Now come up with something more then "hey, flaming!" Critical thinking has no place in it. An atheist is a person who believes god does not exist, for whatever reason. I doesn't matter whether they apply any thinking at all to becoming an atheist. That's great. I'm sure by not thinking about it, you can deny the existence of God. That sounds ridiculous. You need to think about it. You're not born religious or an atheist. You have to think about! That's like saying an atheist isn't an atheist because he believes in UFOs. Religion and Supernaturality are two completely different things In which way is it not similar? Both are not based on facts. Both are based on "sightings" and the such, things that cannot be proven. As a matter of fact, no I don't believe in God, but I cannot prove his non-existence, nor can somebody prove his existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by jedigoku @ lukeiamyourdaddy incase you didn't know before the outside world hears about something that they have proven it is tested and retest many times so what do you want me to prove. I want you to provide a link or a source to back up your claims. Saying "scientists discovered life on Pluto" without anything to back it up is worthless. Saying:"Scientists have discovered life on Pluto" then a link to the article or a reference is what I mean by proving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Devon Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad That's great. I'm sure by not thinking about it, you can deny the existence of God. I didn't say that. Someone can decide to become an atheist without putting much though into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 That's logically impossible. Religion is still a big part of society. You cannot simply say:"Hey, I'm an atheist" without putting a lot of thought about it. Look at famous atheists, Marx, Sartre, Camus. None of them denied God without a long explanation, just as you cannot truly be an atheist without having put a lot of thought about it and came to the conclusion that he does not exist. Don't mix agnostic and atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 @ everyone plz lets leave religion out of this thread I want to leave it out, but lukiamyourdad keeps irritaiting Devon and me. @everyone I don't want this thread closed Neither do I. @Devon thanks for the support Thanks Devon... @Vladimir-Vlada I would be willing to do research but the reality of it is that we would be laughed at and anybody willing to listen to us wouldn't be anybody important in the scientific community Well that is a problem that acnnot be denied, so we are going to gather a lot of arguments to convince them to listen to us. @ those who want to do research picking a point at which to start would be a difficult task and I'm not saying this to put people down I'm very much a realist and have a ferm concept of what is possible and what is not. Yeah, but there must be somone willing to at least listen to us. I don't see how attacking someone's credibility is flaming. My excuses won't work with you either... That's great. I'm sure by not thinking about it, you can deny the existence of God.That sounds ridiculous. You need to think about it.You're not born religious or an atheist. You have to think about! CUT THE GOD CRAP ALREADY! And if you are going to continue about religion, and if you are going to continue to bug me and Devon, then I am just going to say:SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!! As a matter of fact, no I don't believe in God, but I cannot prove his non-existence, nor can somebody prove his existence. Same thing with the Force... Saying "scientists discovered life on Pluto" without anything to back it up is worthless. Well, that's a pretty dumb example. I didn't say that. Someone can decide to become an atheist without putting much though into it. Correct. Look at famous atheists, Marx, Sartre, Camus. None of them denied God without a long explanation, just as you cannot truly be an atheist without having put a lot of thought about it and came to the conclusion that he does not exist. So you are saying: If we don't have an explanation why we are atheistic, then we are not allowed to be??? That is such an arrogant thougth. I am going to say this only once: If anyone starts about religion or starts bugging anyone on this thread will be reported to a moderator. This is especially sent to lukeiamyourdad who keeps bugging me and Devon. P.S. I am sorry if I insulted anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada My excuses won't work with you either... It may be an excuse, yet it is a fact. Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada CUT THE GOD CRAP ALREADY! And if you are going to continue about religion, and if you are going to continue to bug me and Devon, then I am just going to say:SHUT UP ALREADY!!!!!!! You're avoiding the argument and throwing it back into some kind of religious debate when it isn't. It's only a comparison. Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada Same thing with the Force... Then why do you believe it does exist? Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada Well, that's a pretty dumb example. Read the entire post please. Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada So you are saying: If we don't have an explanation why we are atheistic, then we are not allowed to be??? That is such an arrogant thougth. Yes. Why would you be an atheist then? Originally posted by Vladimir-Vlada I am going to say this only once: If anyone starts about religion or starts bugging anyone on this thread will be reported to a moderator. This is especially sent to lukeiamyourdad who keeps bugging me and Devon. Hey, if you can't handle the heat of a debate, you can't handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir-Vlada Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 It may be an excuse, yet it is a fact. A fact that you are trying to make me stop believing in something you don't by flaiming me. And jedigoku and Emperoe Devon. Then why do you believe it does exist? Ever heard of the word from Serbian and Turkish language called: inat? Well it means: rebelliosness, resistance and so on. Well that's it: I believe because I want to, and so that you would have a reason to halt us all from telling the truth... Yes. Why would you be an atheist then? So that you could ask that dumb question, and like above... Hey, if you can't handle the heat of a debate, you can't handle it. Hey! I'm no Moderator, so I can't control something I like to disscus with each other and form a dictatorship out of a web-page made for people to talk to each other. So I can't handle the heat... But I can effect the heat, and I will try to stop YOU from your flaiming, INSULTS and calling US ZEROES. If you continue to call any of us zeroes (I won't mind if you do me:p ) I will SERIOUSLY report you to a moderator, and this is your final warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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