Kjølen Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Pope John Paul II dies at 84 This is a sad moment for not just Catholics. The Pope was a great man that did wonderful things for everyone. Catholics, other Christians, Muslims, Jewish, Athiests, everyone. It is relieving though, that he was finally released from his painful life to somewhere much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 ...Well, I despise the organized (christian) church(es), so I somehow couldn't care less... *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenail1 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Even if you hate every religion on the planet with a burning passion, you can not hate this man. He did countless things that helped unity on this planet, not just between the religions, but also between the races. He also helped bring democracy to Eastern European countries (including Poland). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JofaGuht Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Toenails right. I'm not the biggest fan of catholicism but this pope was a good pope. He did a lot of reforming and apologizing for crappy stuff Catholics did hundreds of years ago. Of course, this is a tad bit of a different character, but a very funny comedian, Mitch Hedberg, died on Wednesday of heart failure. That really sucks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikinor Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 I am Catholic. Man today was just weird. That guy was the Pope when I was born. It will be weird to have a new person being the Holy Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien426 Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 For someone's sake, people, you actually let yourselves be impressed by all the hoohaa that TV specials about the pope's death tell you? If those things he did were really that grand then you'd heard that praise when they happened or in some other documentaries. I for one haven't seen any of that. And what's more, you believe that it was all his doing? Could be, but I think he is (much like all the other leaders) the sum of what his advisors and schemers tell him to do and what he decides to do. His image to the outside world may have been that he's a strong man and decides for himself, yet he's been pretty old and prone to get swayed by people close to him. This pope told people not to use birth control, dagnabbit! Even if you're catholic, you shouldn't be so blind to call someone great after some flattering obituaries. I despise the amount of warshipping that goes on with the pope(s). What's the first two commandments? Then why do catholics pray to images of mother Mary? "The 264th pontiff traveled more and beatified more people than any pope in history" (from CNN.com). Come on, this is the 21st century. It was never that easy to travel and use mass media and do all the other things that are said to have made him so modern and influential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JofaGuht Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 I haven't seen any of the specials. I'm basing off what I know, the evidence makes me assume that he was better than previous popes. I'm 100% nonreligious. All the stuff you're pointing out, Alien, seems to be stuff on why religion is bad as opposed to why the pope was. Stuff like that birth control crap, I don't hate the pope for that, I hate the fact that people let their lives be controlled by a belief. I, personally, don't really think there should even be a pope, and if so than they should have less power. It's just this one seemed to be a tad more clear-minded than the other ones. I don't feel grief-stricken by his death or anything, I just acknowledge it. Mitch Hedberg's death, however, pisses me off a tad more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by toenail1 Even if you hate every religion on the planet with a burning passion, you can not hate this man. ...I have never said that I hate him, I just don't care that he's dead now... ...Apart from that, what Alien said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fealiks Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 thats sad. The fact that hes dead, and was a brilliant man, and that my programme was interupted with a newsflash (j/k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 3, 2005 Author Share Posted April 3, 2005 You people seemt o be missing the POINT of a Pope. Our belief, anyway, states that the Pope's teachings are infallable. Now The Pope of course can't teach your Calculus, but his teachings of the church. He was a great man, and his teaching of restrictions, like birth control is simply the Church's belief. Our belief states that the Pope speaks the word of Jesus Himself, has the power of the Holy Spirit to teach people what God would have wanted. Now, saying this, there were a LOT of murderous and other Popes in our history, but they say "If what the Pope says is always correct, then why didn't those Popes say it was ok to have more than one wife, just to save themselves?" Never has there been a Pope, even the ones that did horrible things, that taught against the Church. That is what we believe to be Jesus or the Holy Spirit working through the Popes to keep the Church's rules sacred. As for a beautified obituary, well who cares about that? It's not the Pope's fault that it was all over TV, so you can't blame him for that. The reason why it was so big, was because so many people loved him. So many people loved the Pope, so when he died they were saddened, and relieved that he wasn't in pain anymore. These are our beliefs, you don't have to believe them, so long as you don't bash them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by Kjølen Our belief, anyway, states that the Pope's teachings are infallable. ...Which is, sorry to say that, stupid in my eyes... Nobody is infallible... Originally posted by Kjølen Now The Pope of course can't teach your Calculus, but his teachings of the church. He was a great man, and his teaching of restrictions, like birth control is simply the Church's belief. ...Which basically means that he's just a puppet... Originally posted by Kjølen Our belief states that the Pope speaks the word of Jesus Himself, has the power of the Holy Spirit to teach people what God would have wanted. . . . Originally posted by Kjølen Never has there been a Pope, even the ones that did horrible things, that taught against the Church. That is what we believe to be Jesus or the Holy Spirit working through the Popes to keep the Church's rules sacred. ...So the horrible things are wanted by the church... Woopidoo... Originally posted by Kjølen As for a beautified obituary, well who cares about that? It's not the Pope's fault that it was all over TV, so you can't blame him for that. ...I don't blame him, I blame the people... There are thousands of "normal" people dying every day and nobody cares... Then one man with a long and fulfilled life dies and everybody is oh-so-sad... Originally posted by Kjølen These are our beliefs, you don't have to believe them, so long as you don't bash them. ...I don't have anything against your believes, as long as you don't bug me with them and/or force them upon me... But reserve me the right to laugh at you when you begin to speak about (what seems to be for me) ridiculous things (you can, of course, laugh at everything you think is ridiculous, if you want to...)... *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 3, 2005 Author Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by DrMcCoy ...So the horrible things are wanted by the church... Woopidoo... ...I don't blame him, I blame the people... There are thousands of "normal" people dying every day and nobody cares... Then one man with a long and fulfilled life dies and everybody is oh-so-sad... No no, that's not what I meant. Let's use Pope Alexander I. I believe he was the Pope that killed maaaaany of his political rivals. I'm not saying that the Church wanted these horrible things, I'm just saying that the Popes who may have killed, womanized and such, never actually tried to change the rules to say that killing and womanizing were ok, even to save themselves. What I'm trying to say is that the Holy Spirit works through the Popes, so that they can deliver the message of what God wants through teachings. Now, you are right that no one is infallable, even the Pope. I never said he was infallable, like I said, don't ask him for help Maths homework, or to name every moon around Jupiter, but that in his teachings of the Church, he is infallable. Whatever the Pope teachs, is what Jesus is teaching, THROUGH the Pope. As for the funeral, it's not that big of a deal either. Thousands of people die, and then the people who knew the deceased have a funeral. The fact that many people knew the Pope, is what made his death more nationalized. It's like if Bill Gates died, you would hear about it in the news, and they might even give a biography of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by Kjølen Whatever the Pope teachs, is what Jesus is teaching, THROUGH the Pope. ...K... *shrug* Originally posted by Kjølen As for the funeral, it's not that big of a deal either. Thousands of people die, and then the people who knew the deceased have a funeral. The fact that many people knew the Pope, is what made his death more nationalized. ...It's just that everywhere I go, all I see is "Oh the pope died, let's wheep and mourn", in every forum, on every TV channel, everywhere... Like I said, I couldn't care less about his death, so it's bugging me a bit... Originally posted by Kjølen It's like if Bill Gates died, you would hear about it in the news, and they might even give a biography of him. ...And I would dance and sing and stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 3, 2005 Author Share Posted April 3, 2005 Well I understand how it can be annoying you a bit, but the people have the right to mourn for him. As for Bill Gates, yeah I thought about using someone more POPULAR to reference to. But in all honesty, I have nothing against Bill Gates. He made Microsoft, he became very successful, he went through the trouble of making contracts with major computer manufacturers to have Windows on their computers. Now he just sits back and lets his excecutives do the work. It's not his fault that his OS sucks, he just owns it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Originally posted by Kjølen Well I understand how it can be annoying you a bit, but the people have the right to mourn for him. ...Hmm, I think you're right... ...I would be quite sad as well if Linus Torvalds or RMS died, for example... But not to that extend and it certainly wouldn't create such a big fuss in the media... *shrug* Originally posted by Kjølen It's not his fault that his OS sucks, he just owns it. ...Objectable... And it's definitely his fault he's telling lies about his and other's OS, for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 3, 2005 Author Share Posted April 3, 2005 Bill Gates is basically a puppet now. After Windows 3.x series, he had no part of the building of his OS. Now he just talks at conventions and makes billions. This is my belief, at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshi Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 I told myself that I wasn't going to post here for reasons that should become apparent soon, but I feel strongly that I have to interject here. First of all, yes, many forums and TV stations are talking about the death of the Pope, much like they talk about the latest Star Wars movie or newest Harry Potter book. The fact that you can choose not to go to them has seemed to pass you by. This is one thread in amongst many in this forum of which you can post in and yet you seem to want to post in this one despite the fact that you disagree with the message or whatever. First of all, this is a thread about mourning, a while ago we had one about the death of an author. If I hadn't liked that author, would I have badgered them about putting up a thread mourning his death? No, I would have left it to them, when it comes to someones death, my opinion on their life actions doesn't matter. Secondly, Originally posted by Dr McCoy ...I don't have anything against your believes, as long as you don't bug me with them and/or force them upon me... But reserve me the right to laugh at you when you begin to speak about (what seems to be for me) ridiculous things (you can, of course, laugh at everything you think is ridiculous, if you want to...)... I can't see anyone here forcing their beliefs on you, again participation in this thread is completely optional. But frankly, I see no reason why we should "reserve you the right to laugh at them when they seem to speak about (what seems to you) ridiculous things". Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing, but you have to learn tact and learn that these are peoples beliefs we're talking about. No matter what someone believes you reserve absolutly no right to laugh at them because of it. That kind of thing offends people, deeply, it's called rascism and you have no right to do that. You are entitled to you opinion, and if this were a religious ranting thread then by all means, do so at your own risk. But this isn't a religious rant thread, this is a thread to mourn the death of someone who meant something to certain people in this board who don't need you telling them what's so wrong about the Pope. I personally wasn't going to come into this thread because frankly, the Pope didn't mean that much to me, but you guys didn't need me coming round telling you that, it would have been as useful as a thread being opened asking if anyone knew the Secret of Monkey Island and me coming back with a simple 'no'. But as moderator of these baourds, I feel it's important that i at least read these things just to make sure nothing annoying is happening, like innocent mourning threads turning into fully fledged religious rants. So I'm going to say right now, if you want to discuss this, start a thread, but keep it clean. Otherwise, leave it out of here. RIP Pope John Paul II Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 3, 2005 Author Share Posted April 3, 2005 Thanks, Neil, that was extremely well put. My thoughts exactly, but it really wasn't that big of a deal to me. I don't mind that anyone thinks my beliefs to be ridiculus. And this was a civilized conversation too. DrMcCoy and I exchanged our thoughts in a very civil way, compared to some other religious discussions that have went horribly wrong in the past in these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toenail1 Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 Just pretend he wasn't the pope. Imagine that somebody is telling you about how somebody they cared about died (maybe their friend or family member). Now wouldn't you feel sorry if one of your friends came up to you and told you that their cousin died, or one of their other family members? This should be no different, if you don't like what the pope stood for, then don't even think about it. Treat him as a normal person. If you still don't care, then the fact that you're posting about it seems a little odd... And no, I am not a "devout" catholic. I haven't been to church since I was around 3. I have friends who are extremely religious, and others who are aetheist and share the same beliefs (or lack of beliefs) as you. Nothing I said here was pointed as a flame at anybody though. I respect everybody on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikinor Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 The Pope was a great man regardless if you are Catholic or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted April 4, 2005 Author Share Posted April 4, 2005 Originally posted by toenail1 Just pretend he wasn't the pope. Imagine that somebody is telling you about how somebody they cared about died (maybe their friend or family member). Now wouldn't you feel sorry if one of your friends came up to you and told you that their cousin died, or one of their other family members? That is exactly my point. People should at least be respectful of the dead. Somehow I don't think people would tell you this after someone you cared about just died: I somehow couldn't care less... *shrug* A simple "Rest in Peace" would have been nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien426 Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Originally posted by VikingLarz The Pope was a great man regardless if you are Catholic or not. I disagree. Originally posted by Joshi ...this is a thread to mourn the death... Where does it say that? People can't expect anything but that the topic is "Pope John Paul II" like the title says. Originally posted by Joshi ...many forums and TV stations are talking about the death of the Pope, much like they talk about the latest Star Wars movie or newest Harry Potter book. The fact that you can choose not to go to them has seemed to pass you by. Wrong. They don't disrupt programs for Star Wars or Harry Potter. In another forum people said that the movie "Shrek" was abruptly interrupted by the news of the pope's death. Just ten minutes before the end! I had missed a movie and wanted to record its rerun yesterday. No can do. It was cancelled. Who would want to watch a documentary after 2.00 am when they are run all day long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrMcCoy Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Originally posted by Joshi No matter what someone believes you reserve absolutly no right to laugh at them because of it. ...Well, let's imagine there's someone who (strongly) believes that we live in a hollow sphere or that he himself is Jesus or something. Wouldn't you laugh at him? I certainly would... And even if you think that the "no right to laugh" only applies to religion, well, where should we draw the line? Originally posted by Joshi That kind of thing offends people, deeply, it's called rascism and you have no right to do that. ...No, that's not rascism, I'm not judging persons by their race, but by their deeds... ...But anyway, I'm sorry I was harsh and maybe even mean, the whole pope thing just got on my nerves... Originally posted by Joshi RIP Pope John Paul II ...Hmm, yeah, may he rest in peace, no matter how this rest actually looks like... Originally posted by toenails1 Just pretend he wasn't the pope. Imagine that somebody is telling you about how somebody they cared about died (maybe their friend or family member). Now wouldn't you feel sorry if one of your friends came up to you and told you that their cousin died, or one of their other family members? ...If I didn't know the now dead person, I wouldn't care, I would only be sorry for that friend that he lost someone... I wouldn't mourn for the dead person, I would try comfort that friend and try to be helpful of some sort... But yeah, I probably wouldn't show him/her my lack of interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien426 Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 The only channel in Germany that didn't change its program had an excellent 13.8% market share. It showed the movie Die Hard 2: Die Harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Jones Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Surprisingly people tend to become incredibly grumpy or to die after some time. Mainly because of wether to less or too much sex. It's that simple. Really. That's why the devil's in hell, the err.. lord in heaven and Bill Clinton will live for ever. Man. Freud rules. And maybe the pope did some cool things, but he was against the usage of condoms too (well, i assume that's not because that just sucks when the cardinal blows). Also i'm not sure what's more worth crying about: the death of one old man or those little children in third world countries. Religions are so self centered sometimes. *slaps mccoy* Don't be so.. err.... attitudicallyitish! ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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