Lady Jedi Posted May 2, 2005 Share Posted May 2, 2005 clicky Good. Some of those bastards may turn from their ways, but they should never get the chance to turn back. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 It establishes a mandatory sentence of 25 years to life behind bars for people convicted of certain sex crimes against children 11 and younger, with lifetime tracking by global positioning satellite technology after they are freed. Now to make that the sentence for all molestation and rapes. I personally consider rape to be worse than murder. Atleast with murder you're dead. There's no pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Rape is a horrible, horrible crime. But there is the advantage of knowing what's on the other side of rape: feelings of humiliation, degradation, pain, social isolation, the possibility of STDs... but the chance to live the rest of your life. With death, ey, we don't know what's on the other side of it. Might be worse. Personally I'd rather not be raped OR murdered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I'm afraid someday, they will put that on everyone. A wolrd of total government control. I don't get it? how will that make things better? What cuases crime? when people rape, maybie its becuase they were a product of bad parenting and social neglect. Just like when people rob, it is becuase they are underpaid while fat cats hoard all the money. When people murder, it is becuase people are angry theyre lives are too tough, or they are too rich for their own good. I say crime is only a symtom of society's problems rather than crime being the actual broblems. Any one following me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Originally posted by kipperthefrog I'm afraid someday, they will put that on everyone. A wolrd of total government control. Two different things. Originally posted by kipperthefrog I don't get it? how will that make things better? Monitoring them will alert police to when the person is in a danger zone, such as a park where children play, or a school. Something of that nature. Allowing crime to be avoided. Originally posted by kipperthefrog What cuases crime? when people rape, maybie its becuase they were a product of bad parenting and social neglect. Or maybe they're just bad people. Originally posted by kipperthefrog Just like when people rob, it is becuase they are underpaid while fat cats hoard all the money. No. People are always screwed over. Yet not everyone robs people. Originally posted by kipperthefrog When people murder, it is becuase people are angry theyre lives are too tough, or they are too rich for their own good. As someone who's seen people killed, I call bull****. Murder is committed by people from all walks of life. Originally posted by kipperthefrog I say crime is only a symtom of society's problems rather than crime being the actual broblems. I say you're trying to justify criminal acts. These people don't deserve the same level of rights as a harmless citizen. They denied others their own rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness. If they're concerned about their rights being "denied". They shouldn't have done the crime in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Great idea. Republicans do good things, too, after all! If you're going to let those monsters back into society, at least know where they are at any and all times. I'm afraid someday, they will put that on everyone. A wolrd of total government control. That's like saying we're in danger of a government throwing everyone in jail just because criminals get thrown in jail. And everything Sith said in the post above me is hereby seconded (if that's a verb:p) by me. when people rape, maybie its becuase they were a product of bad parenting and social neglect. Rapists are weak people who think they have to abuse others to feel strong. That's pretty much considered a psychological fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Windu Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 The Winnie agrees. Rock on GPS tracking. Rock on. *eats a smackerel of honey* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 As with a lot of these things I think its a good idea if used sensibly and in moderation but i don't have much faith that it will be used in that way. We've reached an odd point in society where more and more people are willing to give up large amounts of their freedom and privacy in order to get a quiet life. Which i guess is understandable. But i can't help but think this is based on an unreasoning fear (or crime, terrorism, whatever) that politicians are exploiting to gain control. So i wouldn't be surprised if in a few years it was extended to all criminals. then a few years after that to all suspects, truants, etc... Then all kids... and by then it will be in everyone's phone and you won't get free burgers or somethign without it. I do think it's value is almost entirely as a deterent though. Ie... the hope that people will be less likely to commit a crime if they can be tracked and proved to have been there. The whole "we can stop them going into sensetive areas" argument is pretty irrelevant. Almost all sex offenses (especially against kids) are commited by people who know, or are related to, the victim. This myth of a "shadowy, black cloaked pedophile" who hangs around outside schools and playgrounds looking for kids to bundle into the back of a van is, thankfully, almost entirely in people's minds. So knowing that a sex offender is or isn't passing near a school is going to have pretty much no effect in stopping them re-offending... as they are most likely to be living with or visiting at home any potential victims. Frankly, i think tagging would be more use in crimes like antisocial behaviour (banning people from certain areas), burglary and gang situations.... but i understand that this move is pretty much just for show so they can say "we know where these people are!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Except that they're not allowed to see minors without supervision by a parent (of the child) and police officer. Originally posted by toms Almost all sex offenses (especially against kids) are commited by people who know, or are related to, the victim. This myth of a "shadowy, black cloaked pedophile" who hangs around outside schools and playgrounds looking for kids to bundle into the back of a van is, thankfully, almost entirely in people's minds. Except that child molestors are still likely to watch children and rekindle their desire. Not that they're there to pick out a kid and rape them in the back of a van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowTemplar Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 If the alternative is life in prison, I'm all for it. However, I am of the opinion that it cannot be stressed enough that this really is the equivalent of imprisonment. Cheaper? Yes. Less likely to get you butt-raped? Certainly. But it is still equivalent to imprisonment, and should be used as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I don't get it. Many of these people are disgusted by their previous actions, and wants to live better lives. If we put GPS tracks in all of them, it will be to paint them all black, minimizing the chances of successfully returning to society. And what purpose will it have anyway? "Man, how I want to molest that child, but I don't dare since they have me tracked!". I don't think any of them think that way. Jeez. Criminals are human too. Let's at least try to help them back into society, rather than freeze them out and make them commit crimes or suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 I don't get it. Many of these people are disgusted by their previous actions, and wants to live better lives. If we put GPS tracks in all of them, it will be to paint them all black, minimizing the chances of successfully returning to society. So you don't think it fitting that they should pay for their mistakes? I don't think it matters if they are disgusted by their previous actions, they RAPED A CHILD. The lasting physical and psychological damages to the child alone are enough to warrant a lasting punishment, and the risk of them returning to past behavior is something I personally don't believe is worth the attempt of returning them to everyday society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 So you'd want to use punishment as a revenge? A sort of "pay-back-time" for society against the criminal? Not my piece of cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 That, too, but that's not why I support the GPS unit. I do so because it keeps the crime from being repeated if the government has to free the suspect. In my opinion, the only thing a rapist deserves is life-long jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Life-long jail has no purpose. The purpose of all punishment in a civilized society is IMO to have a criminal serve his debt to society and go out as a free and law-abiding man. Life-long jail and death sentence does not have this ability. IMO, they are the cruel joke of the legal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hidden One Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Jeez. Criminals are human too. Let's at least try to help them back into society, rather than freeze them out and make them commit crimes or suicide. Have you even thought about what you said? So whenever someone takes out a gun and pops somebody you'll just say"Oh there human, things like that happen." I don't think so. They should deserve severe retribution for their hideous actions. Oh and I'm all for GPS tracking. They deserve it for what they do to a little innocent child. Just thinking about it makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Originally posted by Breton Life-long jail has no purpose. Aside from, you know, keeping people whose morals allow them to kill or rape other human beings from doing the same thing to MORE people, inflicting damage on MORE and MORE people. Apparently you've never read / simply ignored the stories of rapists who leave jail to do it again, or murderers who leave jail and kill again. Yes, some people may actually be reformed, but in MY opinion, too damn bad. We all make choices in life and must live with the consequences of our actions. I know if I had a child I wouldn't want to live next to someone who was convicted of a rape/murder, no matter HOW reformed they were. There is obviously a PART of them that wanted to do it in the first place, which means there is a part of them that still wants to do it, no matter how deeply buried it may be, and I'll be ****ed if I'd risk the well-being of my family just so someone else (who has already PROVEN that they are incapable of following the rules of society) gets their chance to get back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Then what about the majority who have no relapse, are disgusted over what they have done and are motivated to return back to society as nice and law-abiding citizens? What about them, ET? "Too bad"? Have you even thought about what you said? So whenever someone takes out a gun and pops somebody you'll just say"Oh there human, things like that happen." I don't think so. They should deserve severe retribution for their hideous actions. "An eye for an eye, and the whole world would be blind" - Mahatma Ghandi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Yes, what about them. Too bad. I'm sorry, but if you make the mistake of walking up to a tiger and punching it in the mouth, you deal with the consequences...typically death. If you rape or murder somebody, then I say too goddamn bad if you're sorry that you did it. The consequences of your actions were known PRIOR to your offense. They KNOW if you get caught raping or murdering someone it's a decent chance of life imprisonment. So it was a decision THEY made to take that risk, and it is THEIR responsibility to accept the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Originally posted by Breton Then what about the majority who have no relapse, are disgusted over what they have done and are motivated to return back to society as nice and law-abiding citizens? What about them, ET? "Too bad"? I'm sorry, but it's a neccessary risk. Safety of a human being overruns that of a convicted rapist. I'm glad they're reformed and I hope they can live a moderately normal life. But we should still take measures to ensure the safety of other people. And most reformed rapists actually support measurements like these because they see it as a helper to keep on the straight path. Originally posted by Breton "An eye for an eye, and the whole world would be blind" - Mahatma Ghandi Except this isn't eye for an eye. This is taking a small measure in ensuring safety. We're allowing them free, but with one small compromise. Eye for and eye would be raping them. Originally posted by ET Warrior If you rape or murder somebody, then I say too goddamn bad if you're sorry that you did it. The consequences of your actions were known PRIOR to your offense. They KNOW if you get caught raping or murdering someone it's a decent chance of life imprisonment. So it was a decision THEY made to take that risk, and it is THEIR responsibility to accept the consequences. Exactly. I've done many wrong doings in my life, but I admitted to them, served out my punishment. Because I knew the consequences of my actions. Breton, you seem to have a thing for (trying to) justify, the unjustifiable. I could understand if they grew up in some backwoods area unknowing of any common morals. But knowing full well the consequences of your actions, you should take responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipperthefrog Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Originally posted by InsaneSith I'm sorry, but it's a neccessary risk. Safety of a human being overruns that of a convicted rapist. I'm glad they're reformed and I hope they can live a moderately normal life. But we should still take measures to ensure the safety of other people. And most reformed rapists actually support measurements like these because they see it as a helper to keep on the straight path. Except this isn't eye for an eye. This is taking a small measure in ensuring safety. We're allowing them free, but with one small compromise. Eye for and eye would be raping them. Exactly. I've done many wrong doings in my life, but I admitted to them, served out my punishment. Because I knew the consequences of my actions. Breton, you seem to have a thing for (trying to) justify, the unjustifiable. I could understand if they grew up in some backwoods area unknowing of any common morals. But knowing full well the consequences of your actions, you should take responsibility. ...you did wrong, served punishment, but they didn't put a GPS tracker on you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 he also didn't RAPE ANOTHER HUMAN BEING. There are different levels of mistakes. Like, if I forget to change the tags on my lisence plates, I'll get a ticket. Obviously the punishment for rape should be more severe than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Originally posted by kipperthefrog ...you did wrong, served punishment, but they didn't put a GPS tracker on you... I didn't hurt anyone. I was caught with weed. I served my probation time. And yes, I did have to wear a tag. I wore it for the month I was required to wear it for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Jedi Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Kipperthefrog: People may be influelnced by many things in their lives, but it just gets down to their choice to give in to whatever sick temptation they may have, and totally violate another human being. It's not their parents' fault for neglecting them or not hugging enough. It's not the fault of their boss for being a cheap jerk. It is their own fault. Breton: Why defend these people? Let's just consider if you were victim to rape or other sexual offense. How would you feel towards the person who did this to you? As for me, I'd most certainly forgive that person, but there is no way that I would say, 'Hey, I can see that you're sorry, so let's just forget about this, and live our lives.' No Way. That person would pay. I would have my retribution, and, if I had it my way, that person would never ever, get the chance to hurt someone, anyone, ever again. So I say track their asses. I doubt that it would be some enormous device that would be shown to the world. No, it would just be something to keep sick people from doing sick things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toms Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Life long jail might well provide one function, that of keeping the person off the street. As far as i'm concerned "taking them out of circulation" is the ONLY advantage of jail. The problem is that, unless you never release ANYONE who is jailed it also has severe drawbacks once they are released. So I guess you could insist everyone is jailed for life... but practically there needs to be variations in sentances. If you get life for rape and life for murder... why not just kill your victim so you are harder to catch? If you get the same sentance for taking dodgy photos as for full on assault then why not just move straight on to the more serious offences? What have you got to loose. And, unless you are going to run your MASSIVE no-release prisons like something out of a sci-fi novel then you need to have the prospect of release and rewards for good behaviour to allow you to control the prisoners. Otherwise they might as well kill each other, guards, try and escape etc... all the time... after all, what do they have to loose. In all this emotive "hang em all" language actual practicality and logic goes out the window! Seriously, anyone who thinks that monitoring the location of ex-pedophiles on a big map to make sure they don't go near schools is gonna have ANY effect on whether they reoffend is deluding themselves. They don't have to go near a school to see kids, or come into contact with them, or "rekindle their interest". (a) Stop them disappearing - probably (b) Catch them and provide evidence if they reoffend - probably © Discourage them from reoffending because of (b) - maybe (d) Warn when they are about to reoffend - hah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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