Saber system suggestions

[Maxstate]

When got stabbed he fell instantly before you could really take in what happened, same thing in MB2, if you let your guard you could die just like that in the blink of an eye, that fast, its realistic if you ask me.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

 

Plus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2itqwRpnDY&search=star%20wars%20duel%20of%20the%20fates

[MeleeMaster]

You've got me there, Qui-gon kinda seemed like he was half-trying, I mean seriously, he can do better than that.

 

Darth Maul must've been pretty mad that that he was getting his a** handed to him by a Jedi Padawan when he was a Sith Lord. So like with Qui-gon he took a cheap shot when he had the chance.

[Maxstate]

You've got me there, Qui-gon kinda seemed like he was half-trying, I mean seriously, he can do better than that.

 

Darth Maul must've been pretty mad that that he was getting his a** handed to him by a Jedi Padawan when he was a Sith Lord. So like with Qui-gon he took a cheap shot when he had the chance.

 

He was low on DP and mishapped

Sorry I was a bit rude up there

Sith never play fair you know, and Obi only won because "HIZZZ ANGURRR FUELED HEEEEM" lol.

[crail227]

however, i do think that ojp needs to implement a way so that if one lets his guard down, he would be cut down if slashed upon

[MeleeMaster]

^^Good idea.

 

About Duel of the Fates, Obi-Wan at first looked pretty angry after he shouted NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! but seemed to sort of absorb it, he wasn't nessecarily angry. He looked a little angry but he didn't look all dark like Anakin does in Ep3 sometimes, he seemed to contain and control it. These two things were probably going through his head, 1.That sucker killed Qui-gon with his wide hilt, I'm slicing that round piece of crap (the hilt) in half.

2.I can't let him win, the lightside will prevail or something like that

 

Darth Maul realized he was getting his a** kicked and then took advantage of Obi-wan's position and pushed him into the pit. Obi-wan doesn't act like he beat Darth Maul out of anger, if your comparing him to Anakin that is.

[JRHockney*]

however, i do think that ojp needs to implement a way so that if one lets his guard down, he would be cut down if slashed upon

 

Um, I dont think that will work in this system unless the hit is very particular and hard to do. The parrying system, being the way it is, is too hard to make it so that if you dont parry a strike, you die. The advantage to our parrying system is that is allows for true toe to toe comboing and parrying while walking like it is in the movies. The down side of having a block button like in MB2 is that you spam the heck out of it so much theres much less swinging and too much running around in between blocks.

 

The only way I could think of to implement it in our system without changing the look of our combat would be to allow full access to swinging or any other move while the block is held down and when you have it released, your hits do double damage; Or, you we could make it backwards to where if you press a button, your attack is doubled and you are completely vulnerable. Of course we would have to make an at least one second window of vulnerability so people arent just pressing or releasing the button just before the saber hits them.

 

I'm just brainstorming here so dont anyone get your hopes up. Its an extra button to worry about and it is not essential to making our system better than MB2's by any means. On top of that, I doubt Razor will ever go for this idea. The only real advantage for this aside from having a new power swing is having the realism of potentially making a fatally bad move. I don't know, it might be a good idea, but I'm so far removed from any kind of a manual block system that I have a hard time with the possibility of it here.

[UDM]

But first, lightning strikes, before anything else if we're to move on. Those are really some gamestopping bugs we've got here...

[JRHockney*]

But first, lightning strikes, before anything else if we're to move on. Those are really some gamestopping bugs we've got here...

 

AAAAGGGGRRRREEEEEEDDDDDDD!!!!!!!! They are driving me nuts and I'm too JKA code retarded to fix them myself! OH THEE AGONY!!! LOL

[razorace]

Man, I really gotta get my system back up and running since I haven't even seen this new bug. It's probably just something trival since I don't remember seeing it before.

[Maxstate]

You guys mean the insta-dp loss?

[UDM]

That's it

[Maxstate]

Well I was thinking, if you guys KNOW what causes it, you could make something happen (like a quick pause or a saberlock) whenever it happens since its only happens around 2-3 times in a duel.

 

Just a thought.

[JRHockney*]

Well I was thinking, if you guys KNOW what causes it, you could make something happen (like a quick pause or a saberlock) whenever it happens since its only happens around 2-3 times in a duel.

 

Just a thought.

 

It only seems to happen when we dont parry a strike, unless the parry reduction just makes it unnoticable or look like a normal hit. I wish I knew what to look for in the code, but then again, if its too hard to fix, it wont matter. I dont even know enough to play around with that "BG_SaberInTransitionDamageMove" stuff you guys were talking about before.

 

Btw, I've added a few new things to my code. I made blasters do 7.5 DP damage instead of 5 and added the following code to the DP hit value section of w_saber.c line(3201):

else if(attacker->s.weapon != WP_REPEATER && !WalkCheck(defender))

{//BOLTBLOCK is *2 when running. Added by JRHockney

saberBlockCost = (DODGE_BOLTBLOCK)*2;

}

else if(attacker->s.weapon == WP_REPEATER && !WalkCheck(defender))

{//REPEATERBLOCK is *2 when running. Added by JRHockney

saberBlockCost = (DODGE_REPEATERBLOCK)*2;

}

This makes all blaster and repeater hits on a saber cost twice as much if the saberist is running. It helps balance out Jedi vs gunners a little bit more. I will probably make blaster and repeater hits from behind do double as well. I'm not entirely sure about keeping the 7.5 damage but I will until I decide its too balanced or something. Does anybody know how I might make DP damages from blasters vary by distance?

 

One last thing. For the parries that dont cause a slow bounce or a higher mishap, can we maybe make the defenders animations just standard blocks? It just looks kind of sloppy to constantly have that "off balance" animation for each parry when it should really only be for causing actual mishaps.

[razorace]

I think we've discussed this before. Without the specific animations for the parries, players don't get any visual feedback from successful parries.

[JRHockney*]

I think we've discussed this before. Without the specific animations for the parries, players don't get any visual feedback from successful parries.

 

Yes we have, but that was before this dramitic change in combat and I believe there are other ways to get around it now. Honestly I really dont think they need too much visual feedback for the non-mishap causing parries especially with the rate of this new combat.

 

I think the best way to do this is to extend the blocking animation for missed parries like it was before and maybe add the lower events of an appropriate stumbling animation if possible (or if they even exist. I dont know because my stupid modview doesnt work! grrrr :compcry: ). Non-mishap causing parry animations would have a very short blocking anim like it is now or even shorter making them able to counter swing very quickly. This way, you could combo easier on to un parried blocks because they would'nt be able to swing as quickly, just parry. It would also be fairly obvious to both people that someone parried or didn't based on the length of the block since the defender could either counter attack fast or not.

 

Anyways, I think this is another good idea, but as UDM said, that stupid hit detection problem needs priority.

[razorace]

Hit detection and glitches in the saber behavior are different things.

 

Please don't sound so negative about this on the forums. When newbies hear problems like "hit detection" and "gamestopper", it makes it sound like the mod has serious flaws.

[Maxstate]

Hit detection and glitches in the saber behavior are different things.

 

Please don't sound so negative about this on the forums. When newbies hear problems like "hit detection" and "gamestopper", it makes it sound like the mod has serious flaws.

 

the bugs will be squished my Razor's mighty fist of coding +5 !

[JRHockney*]

Please don't sound so negative about this on the forums. When newbies hear problems like "hit detection" and "gamestopper", it makes it sound like the mod has serious flaws.

 

I was hoping I wasn't coming off as too negative about this, but your probably right. All this talk about this probably very fixable glitch could be creating bad vibs among new players. My apologies. I just wish I new enough to fix it myself. Be sure to tell me what it was when you do fix it.

 

I think it needs to be made very clear that this is a problem with the new testing beta and not with the offically released 0.0.9b. Luckly, I havent seen any problems of this nature in that release and this is probably a side effect of some of the latest adjustments.

 

the bugs will be squished my Razor's mighty fist of coding +5!

 

Here, here!!!

 

Oh btw. On that last idea about the blocking anims, if the enlongated blocking animation isnt enough to tell the difference about whether they parried or not, we could also slowdown their movement for the duration of that block a bit. That should look cinematically accurate and make the difference plenty intelligable.

[UDM]

No please no! I'm really against anything that prolongs the duration of a fight. In fact, if not for the sake of balancing, I'd really wish the tap parries don't cause enemies to slow bounce

[JRHockney*]

No please no! I'm really against anything that prolongs the duration of a fight. In fact, if not for the sake of balancing, I'd really wish the tap parries don't cause enemies to slow bounce

 

Um.. actually it won't. If anything it will make the fight go quicker because comboing will be easier since unparried hits have a longer block animations. It will penalize you more for missing basically. And slowing down their walking speed a bit during the hit will make them an easier target, so over all, it should speed it up if anything. You can fairly easily fake around attack parries too btw, so I dont think they are that bad of an idea, they help keep the system away from too much swinging and looking like swing spam too.

[JRHockney*]

I was playing around with jack a few night back and messing with the mishap and FP gain settings and I think we came up with the ideal settings for 0.0.9f that helps balance attack with defense:

g_mishapRegenTime 1500

g_ForceRegenTime 300 or 350

 

These settings help prevent turtling from happening too often (in hopes of just trying to constantly raise the attacker's mishap bar) but makes defense at least possible and helps keep the rate of the combat fast and fun without excessive swinging. These should be the default settings in my opinion.

 

Sushi's settings work pretty well too, however, as Jack pointed out, we are getting rid of interesting defensive and offensive features (parrying that lowers mishap bar, and formerly the attack fakes that lower it too).

 

Ultimately, I'd like to see more of the type of settings sushi has in the real game, except I would like to keep the parry lowering mishap and bring back the attackfake lowering it as well, but both should only lower it about half of what they do now or did before so the pacing type combat that sushi has is a little more prevailent.[/end run-on sentence]

 

Lastly, After sparring for a while, we noticed that although the old lightning strike problem has improved (not the new bug though), combat does still seem a bit too random when your too close to your enemy. It might be worth brainstorming ways to help keep the players at more of a distance from eachother. Its a shame that the invisible barrier idea wont work, but can anyone think of another way?

 

The only way I can think of at the moment is to make kicks (or maybe the MB2 slap) knockdown anyone who is touching you and attemping a swing. If they are not swinging, it would just knock them back a bit. The MB2 slap might be a cool animation substitution in this particular instance (basically, anytime your touching someone).

[crail227]

It might be worth brainstorming ways to help keep the players at more of a distance from eachother. Its a shame that the invisible barrier idea wont work, but can anyone think of another way?

 

perhaps a short saberlock? It would be very brief and cause the players to get pushed back a certain distance

[JRHockney*]

perhaps a short saberlock? It would be very brief and cause the players to get pushed back a certain distance

 

I've suggested that before, but we came to the conclusion that it would most likely be too frustrating for players since they might accidently get stuck in it alot or spam it when they are low on DP. If we could get past those problems it might be a good idea. Keep brainstorming.

[Maxstate]

People should get the choice if they want to fight up-close or not, I do agree that we need a way of keeping our enemy at bay. Though the current kick is not going to work, I suggest scrapping it for something better.

[JRHockney*]

UDM and I decided to do a little testing on that saber behavior bug and yes it does exist between players and not just when fighting bots. The times we noticed it while testing hitting a standing person are mostly with close, comboed side hits. I believe its the transition animation that seems to be causing most of the damage, although a few single hits occasionally did double damage at close range. The damage seems to escalate with a few chained combo hits especially when theres turning animations involved.

 

The while most bugged style at the moment seems to be blue, the least seems to be yellow (which rarely showed any signs of it). As such, I would say yellow is the safest style to fight with between players at the moment. UDM also noticed that on occasion, he would lose DP after hitting me with a swing. While I didnt notice this myself in testing, it could have been because of my ping vs his.