razorace Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Ok, to clarify, I'm referring to the regeneration of FP during attacks, not the drain that attacking does to FP. Basically, right now, players don't regen FP at all while attacking and I'm thinking that that might be a bit much. Also, we might want to remove the walk = 1/2 regen... Not that I don't like the swing spam -> FP drain idea, it's just that I don't think we need to discourage swinging at this point with our current back/forth action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 Ok, to clarify, I'm referring to the regeneration of FP during attacks, not the drain that attacking does to FP. Basically, right now, players don't regen FP at all while attacking and I'm thinking that that might be a bit much. Also, we might want to remove the walk = 1/2 regen... Not that I don't like the swing spam -> FP drain idea, it's just that I don't think we need to discourage swinging at this point with our current back/forth action. OK, thats fine as long as it doesn't lead to excessive swing spam, I'm all for the solid back and forth action we have going for us. I kind of like the pace we were moving at tonight though and I think Vruki Salet's idea might help with actieving a good balance to keep that pace. Maybe make FP penalies for excessive comboing like maybe 10 fp for every 4+ moves comboed together or something like that. Maybe we could make the penalty much more severe depending on the speed of the saber style used too and that would help balance the styles! Removing the walking = 1/2 fp regain might be a good idea as long as running is still penalized the way it is now. Ok, I'm tired and bummed about the Broncos (very sad game). Goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 I'm probably jumping the gun on this question but aside from bug fixes, will there be any other features that you are adding for sure this time around, other than the FP not regen while a player is attacking with the saber. I'm sure youre probably already as busy as I am with your semester so its totally cool if its only mostly some much needed bug fixes. Any new base stances this time around? Also, if you want to test any features before you release the next beta, I'm more than willing to help with the testing if you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Mainly just bug fixes at this point. Probably the biggest change is that I'm retooling the viewlocking feature since it doesn't really work right yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 Mainly just bug fixes at this point. Probably the biggest change is that I'm retooling the viewlocking feature since it doesn't really work right yet. Thats cool. Is this gonna be v.0.0.6 or v0.0.5b2 or something like that? Well, do what ever you have time for. Hopefully the parrying system will work perfectly this time around without the "multi directional back (s key) parrying." One thing you might want to consider if you have time to do it is: slowing down blue and tavion (and maybe yellow slightly) styles a little more. This might be a quicker compromise in style balancing at least until a more complex saber style balancing system can be put into place. it might also help those styles look like less of a flurry in saber combat and more cinematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I'm probably going to call it 0.0.6. As for the swing speeds, I'll look into the actual animations (especially the wind ups) to see what we can do about balancing them. I'd rather not slow anything down if I don't have to since this was a HUGE complaint point about the earlier versions of the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 I just had a few of my crazy ideas!! They can be used independently of eachother if only one of thems good too. 1. Targeting your enemy prevents or decreases FP drain while attacking 2. Targeting your enemy while walking increases attack power DP hit wise (or maybe its normal and not targeting is less) 3. In order for your dodge to activate when needed, you have to be Targeting your enemy (however, back kills will only kill if the attacker is walking) 4. In order to do a successful parry, you also have to be targeting your enemy (however; pressing the right parry direction will still prevent DP loss if your not targeting them). Yep, that alot of targeting! But it might add some more depth, skill, and strategy to this saber system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I remember this whole arguement coming up during the Promod era. Basically, I don't beleive that a person's ability to aim or more realistically, be a LPB, should be a major contributing factor in their game performance. However, you do bring up a good point that certain activities require more effort based on weither or not you're able to see the other guy. As such, I'd probably be willing to try something like you're suggestion but be based on much more broad fields of vision requirements. IE, something like DP costs go up if you're not able to see your oppenent while dodging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 26, 2006 Author Share Posted January 26, 2006 I should be clear that I am not trying to turn this system into promod bya any means. I've read about it, but it basically died before I ever started playing JK at all. While I dont know much about the old debates on this topic, I don't see why targeting benefits would be such an issue. This is still a first/third person game and most people who play have play first person shooters before where aiming is everything. Also, If we make it so it can only have any effect when the attacker or the parrier is walking, it really wouldn't be that hard I think. Although this would give first person view a bigger advantage. Anyway... As such, I'd probably be willing to try something like you're suggestion but be based on much more broad fields of vision requirements. IE, something like DP costs go up if you're not able to see your oppenent while dodging. Yeah that would be cool and more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 I have two questions and a idea. Questions: 1. Since Enhanced didn't come out today, are you waiting a week so you have more time to do stuff to it or is it going to be released like tomarrow or something (or are you just to busy to worry about it at the moment which is understandable). 2. Is it possible to make the bounding box bigger to where the block is and maybe make the block activation area even further out, and if so, what problems might arise from this. The only reason I what to know this and whether its a good idea is because it might help stop the sabers from going through people when they are not suppose to. I was watching espisode III last night and I noticed they seem to always go back and forth between attacking and blocking. If this is possible, if we put a slight delay on a blocked followup attack for the person who just had their attack blocked (but nearly as much as a parry though) it might lead to movie like back and forth attacking and blocking by both saberists. A bigger block detention range might also help to determine who swung first. There should be no blocking detention from behind obviously (although having a manual back blocking function might be cool, but you would need a new animation for it) Idea: 4. In order to do a successful parry, you also have to be targeting your enemy (however; pressing the right parry direction will still prevent DP loss if your not targeting them). Yeah ok I've already posted this one, but I think its worthy of consideration on its own. I can see why you didn't like the other ones, but this would not be too hard to do with walking attackers and it would distinguish a no DP costing block to a parry. Making the parrying a little harder to do might be an interesting change as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I have no idea when the next version of Enhanced will be posted. I still need to finish the viewlock revision but I just haven't had the time. As for the blocking range, I can expand it but we have to be very careful since too large of a block area would result in players being unfairly interrupted into a block when it wouldn't be approprate. From what I can tell, the problem seems to be the bloody server frame rate rather than a weakness/delay in the hit detection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Well, I got the viewlock working. I'm not sure it's working perfectly yet, but it does seem to be doing what it's supposed to do. Basically, it prevent players from moving or yawing their blades thru other player's sabers. It also adds a tactile "impact" to saber impacts. It's technically been in the system for sometime now, however, I could never get it to work good in my earlier attempts so it wasn't noticable until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 28, 2006 Author Share Posted January 28, 2006 Well, I got the viewlock working. I'm not sure it's working perfectly yet, but it does seem to be doing what it's supposed to do. Basically, it prevent players from moving or yawing their blades thru other player's sabers. It also adds a tactile "impact" to saber impacts. Cool! That should help alot. Hopefully people will like it. I look forward to trying it out. As for the blocking range, I can expand it but we have to be very careful since too large of a block area would result in players being unfairly interrupted into a block when it wouldn't be approprate. From what I can tell, the problem seems to be the bloody server frame rate rather than a weakness/delay in the hit detection. I might be an interesting experiment. You might want to test it out before you attempt a release of it though. I can see why this would be a risk, so if you decide to do it, just use your best judgement. Btw, what country/state do you live in? You seem to anwser in the middle of the night where I'm at! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I'm in the Pacific time zone. Idaho to be more specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 Wow you work late! I'm in Colorado. Anyways, I just thought of an interesting suggestion that might help solve the "sabers still going through people" problem during the back and forth action: While walking, the saber swing stops a little more that half way between pointing to the side at a 90 degree angle and pointing directly at the opponent (maybe around 160 degrees or so). In order to do a full swing, you would have to be running (thus still making them useful against gunners or when a person is stunned). This may mean that you might have to make the bounding box a little bigger to still allow for collisons though. Doing a full swing against a person might have to have some kind of a penalty if the opponent is not stunned, but I'm not sure what yet. Its an idea, but I haven't thought it out too well yet so let me know if you see any problems with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'm not sure that's realistic or really doable since the animations are only set up for full swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokakeke Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 I'm in the Pacific time zone. Idaho to be more specific. Wow, where in Idaho? I live in Spokane (near the Wash-Idaho border) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 29, 2006 Author Share Posted January 29, 2006 Spokane is a nice town. I stayed there once for a day several years ago at a hotel in the down town area and played Lasertag at a really hightech (well, more than normal) laser tag place. Than it was on to Seattle. I hope the Sea Hawks destory the Steelers after what they did to us! LOL! I'm not sure that's realistic or really doable since the animations are only set up for full swings. Yeah. Oh well, back to the drawing board. I do still kind of like the idea about rising the bounding box a bit and the block detection as an experiement. Even if it does make people switch to block unintentionally at a realy close range, it might help them to learn to keep their distance. Of course I'm not sure how this would effect the faster saber styles with shorter range. They may have to be confincated for if it becomes a problem for them. I also might suggest (if it hasn't already been done) that you make kicking do no DP damage until they are at 50% DP because there should be no avantage to it aside from being able to swing at people while they are on the ground. If kicking still does a ton of DP damage, I fear this will lead to too much kicking and not enough back and forth action with the sabers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Well, I'll play around with the saber block protection radius when I install Keshire's block animations. As for kicking, I'm not sure if there is a large DP cost for dodging it. But you're right, it needs to be balanced properly. I think the balance is supposed to be that you can't saber block while in a kick. FYI, I'm sick at the moment so I'm not sure how much work I'll get done for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 As for kicking, I'm not sure if there is a large DP cost for dodging it. But you're right, it needs to be balanced properly. I think the balance is supposed to be that you can't saber block while in a kick. FYI, I'm sick at the moment so I'm not sure how much work I'll get done for a while. We'll have to test that the next time we're both online. If it does do a lot of DP damage to kick a over 50 DP stun, than it might have to change for balance sake. At the moment, it is pretty easy to kick one of those. Anyways, sorry to hear about your sickness. I won't bug you for a while so you can get well. I'll add you to my prayer list or something. Drink lots of tea if your sickness permits it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 FYI, kicks do FP damage, not DP, to stunned players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted January 30, 2006 Author Share Posted January 30, 2006 FP?! Hmmm, that might not be as much of a problem then. I'll have to think about it from that perspective then and analyze any potential problems with that if their are any (which I can't think of any at the moment). Anyways, good luck getting unsick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vruki Salet Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Yeah Razor. Take it easy & get well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRHockney* Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hey Razor, I'm not sure how much better you're feeling, but I thought I'd throw down a relatively uncomplex idea before I forget it: While two people are swinging, if one of them gets hit first and they press the correct parry direction as the saber hits them or enters their block detection range, the person blocking will not lose DP but they will not parry it. Parrying will only happen if the person doing the parrying was not swinging when he got hit. I figure that this might help make two people swinging at each other use strategy in their movement rather than just spamming with their swinging. That's it for now. Hope your feeling better and thanks for adding that very useful server tracker thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Nope, still under the weather. I've been told that I might be this way until the end of the week. As for attack-on-attack impacts, there's no DP cost as is. However, it does mean that the players have to successfully touch their sabers together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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