Saber system suggestions

[JRHockney*]

Other than the tavion/blue style, the styles are pretty synced up now. As for balance, I think the windup periods for the larger swing styles will simply have slower windups. This balancing has been done for the most part already. It's really just a matter of tweaking the overall speeds and the speeds of individual windups that don't quite move right. For this purpose, loads of feedback on the style speeds would be great.

 

FYI, I've already tweaked the blue attack swings to make them more at the speed of theo the styles.

 

I still think if your going to have slower windups you need more DP (or FP) damage done with that style other wise no one is going to want to use it. The last time I tried to fight you with red style, I got my arse kicked because I could not react fast enough or do enough DP damage so I really think something should be done balance wise until all the speeds are perfectly match or at least much closer than they are now.

 

Btw, for one of the up coming versions of Enhanced, I'd like to make a professional looking manual for the saber system and other important changes. I already have to make some kind of manual as an assignment for my Technical Writing class, so I figured I'd use OJP Enhanced for it. If you would like to use it with the release of v0.0.7 or 0.0.8 you'll have to describe in detail what the changes are or let me play around with it before the release. My manual assignment is due March 15, so it will have to be about a version released before then if you want to use it. If you did decide to use it, I would update it for each release.

[razorace]

We will have to see about the saber swing speeds. Red's main problem at the moment is that some of the windups in certain directions are just insanely slow. I can fix those issues as people figure out which swing directions have the crappy windups. If it ends up not being enough, I'll add in the DP differences.

 

As for a manual, that would be awesome. OJP has been lacking a well done manual since...ever! Are you sure that your teacher would count this as an acceptable project for the assignment?

 

Anyway, I suggest that you just grab the new release when it comes out this week and go from there. I don't think I can describe things in enough detail have you just transcribe them into a manual. There's been a LOT of changes since the last version, but I beleive I'm pretty good about documenting the changes in the changelog. You could use that as a starting point for your manual.

 

FYI, in terms of the changelog entries, 0.0.7 will be the largest release yet. I currently have over a page worth of changelog info for it.

[razorace]

Ok, the bots are currently totally rocking my socks now. They're pretty wicked fighters with the latest changes and this is dispite the fact that they don't use any of the special moves.

 

I think my bug fixes combined with the simplifed saber behavior mechanics has made a notable improvement to the back/forth action. Most notably, I fixed it so that players can't parry when being forced into a block from an attack or bounce. As such, players have to be physically on the defense before they can do a parry and this fixes a problem where players were able to parry blows while swing spamming their opponent. The players are forced to actively attempt to block before they can get another good swing attempt in. Swing, Swing, Block, Block, Parry, Swing, Swing, Attack Fake, Lunge Finisher! Woot!

[razorace]

Well, color me impressed, the saber sounds from http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/3909.html are pretty good. But there's a question of either or not we should change the sounds away from the defaults. Plus,we'll have to get permission from the author to use the sounds if we decided to use them.

[JRHockney*]

As for a manual, that would be awesome. OJP has been lacking a well done manual since...ever! Are you sure that your teacher would count this as an acceptable project for the assignment?

 

Last time I asked my teacher, she said it was ok as long as the manual didn't end up being too long. I'll ask her again today. I may also change up the wording a bit for the release to make it more fun to read because as most technical writing documents go, they are pretty boring to read.

 

Have you done anything to the slow bounce vulnerability yet? You should try attemping to hit one of their slow bounces before you make a final decision on how it will work as far as what Dp damage or mishaps happen an when. If it seems good to you, go for it. Although I don't think it should be able to cause DP < 50 like stuns because you can often get more than one swing in cause too much DP loss and they are better "finish him!" poses anyway. I think it should just be knock downs or maybe disarms........or DP/FP loss with the same style!

 

And just out of curiousity, will the low jumps like cartwheels, wall jumps, and backflips have les FP drain in time for the next release? What about that killer backflip kick absorbing idea you had?

 

Well, color me impressed, the saber sounds from http://www.pcgamemods.com/mod/3909.html are pretty good. But there's a question of either or not we should change the sounds away from the defaults. Plus,we'll have to get permission from the author to use the sounds if we decided to use them.

 

Yeah I thought you'd like Clouds Sounds. They sound really good when combined with a few of the movie sounds noises too (especially the wall hit). Until we get the authors permission, I would suggest putting a link to it in the read me saying that these sounds are good to use with Enhanced.

 

I look very forward to trying out 0.0.7 and posting the changes at the MB site, I think these changes will really give Enhanced the versitility it needs to impress alot more people.

[razorace]

Have you done anything to the slow bounce vulnerability yet?

Not yet. I'm trying to make sure that all the special moves have been retooled for OJP first.

 

Until we get the authors permission, I would suggest putting a link to it in the read me saying that these sounds are good to use with Enhanced.

Speaking of which, if you got the time, would you mind contacting the author? I don't seem to have the recruiting "touch".

 

Say, does anyone know if pcgamemods.com is accepting uploads again? It looks like other authors are submitting now.

[JRHockney*]

Not yet. I'm trying to make sure that all the special moves have been retooled for OJP first.

 

No problem. One thing at a time is always good.

 

Speaking of which, if you got the time, would you mind contacting the author? I don't seem to have the recruiting "touch".

 

LOL, Ok I'll see what I can do.

 

Say, does anyone know if pcgamemods.com is accepting uploads again? It looks like other authors are submitting now.

 

Don't know. I checked to see if the new authors have posted things in the past and many of them haven't. Of course this could mean that they just traded out a previous release of theirs as Lathain suggested. You might want to give it a shot.

[razorace]

I'll try it when I release the next Enhanced version.

[Lathain Valtiel]

Yeah. What they're doing is updating an old release.

[JRHockney*]

F.Y.I. After a little bit of research I found Cloud's email address (I think) and sent him an email requesting the use of his saber sounds. If he responds and says yes quickly, we might what to include them in v0.0.7. as a thankyou or something.

[razorace]

Sounds like a good plan.

[da_chimp]

holy crap i go away for a couple of months thinking OJP had died but now your working on a sabersystem.

 

time to bring out my old copy of JK:JA an get ready to test test test untill sleep is only a memory

[razorace]

It's not dead yet. It's normally just a matter of bugging me to release the crap I've finished. Lately, JRHockney and Lath have lit a fire under my butt so things have actually been getting done and released.

[da_chimp]

any hints you'd be ablt to give with the sabersystem that could help me not get my ass kicked by bots would be handy,

 

and as a suggestion you could restrict styles to specific saber handles and make the sabers have different attributes like in Kotor where certain saber mods make the saber better for bolt deflection or saber on saber fighting, also you could speed up red style a little because it always felt weighty and light has no weight, it would still be easyer to block then yellow or blue but it wouldn't be as easy to get out of the way as it is in base Jk:JA just a suggestion cause i always smacked my head into the table if i got hit with red style cause no matter how close you are you can get out of there cause of how slow it was.

 

i havent played the new enhanced yet so im not sur how it will effect gameplay

[JRHockney*]

Yes Greiver, join us into in the butt burnination! LOL

 

As far as tip for killing bots, always (even when youre swinging). When you parry them, hit where there saber isn't and also occasionally kick them and swat at them when they are on the ground. Other than that, just use good strategy overall and be creative. These strategies will become a lot more complex with the next build though.

[razorace]

From my experience with the latest build, I'd recommend that you don't run while fighting and to stop attacking until you parry if your opponent happens to force you into a block. With the way things work, the dude who is blocking isn't going to be able to hit the attacker from a block with an attack unless he parries the attacker or is really good with the quick swing attacks.

 

and as a suggestion you could restrict styles to specific saber handles and make the sabers have different attributes like in Kotor where certain saber mods make the saber better for bolt deflection or saber on saber fighting, also you could speed up red style a little.

I'm not really big about assigning anything really important to the hilts (.sab files) since they could be easily abused. Plus, doing so takes a fair amount of control away from the players ingame.

[da_chimp]

oh no the autorun is not a valid win32 function oh no oh no oh no

bloody scratches oh well ill have to try my mint copy

 

.........

 

yay its working

[JRHockney*]

Ok, I can't get it out of my mind, red style is going to get plastered everytime if it doesn't have some kind of attack advantage! Since you can no longer parry while attacking, red will have little or no defense against a faster style when a red fighter starts a swing and because it have no DP damage advantage. If there still will be no DP damage variation amoung the styles and the red windup is still slow, it needs something else. Longer reach just ins't enough of an advantage in this saber system at the moment. Possible suggestions:

 

1. make red cause longer slow bounces

 

2. give red a knockdown bonus when the opponent has 75 FP or maybe even DP.

 

3. More DP points for that style

 

4. Anything!!! We're going to lose possible Base JA players if they come here and their beloved red style sucks!

 

Of course these possible alternatives may also vary amoung the other styles as well. Desanns style may get overpowered as well.

[razorace]

I'll make fixing the windup speeds a priority.

[razorace]

Ok, I did the math and I dramatically increased the speed of the red/purple's returns and windups. That seems to have fixed things up nicely.

[JRHockney*]

Ok, I did the math and I dramatically increased the speed of the red/purple's returns and windups. That seems to have fixed things up nicely.

 

Good job. Thats a heck of an accomplishment all things considering. I just hope red style doesn't become over used now! LOL

 

Any chance you'll get to lowering the FP costs for cartwheels, backflips and wall jumps and also the idea about hitting the slow bounces before the release?

 

I have a quick thought in case hitting the slow bounce is too easy (which i have a feeling it will be): how about if hitting the slow bounce with a normal swing does more DP/FP damage and hitting it with a power fake causes the mishap? This might add veriaty to how to attack, help the back and forth action, and make it a little harder, yet more realistic to cause the DP > 50 mishap.

[razorace]

The cost for backflips appear to be linked into the jump costs so I don't think I'll be able to change it before the release tonight.

 

As for your idea, I like it. I might go with that.

[JRHockney*]

The cost for backflips appear to be linked into the jump costs so I don't think I'll be able to change it before the release tonight.

 

As for your idea, I like it. I might go with that.

 

Cool!!! Oh wait.......here it comes............here it comes!!..............THIS IS WORTHY OF A STRONG BAD DANCE!!!

 

So are cartwheels and wall flips linked as well?

 

Oh, I almost forgot. If you can't get to making the backflip absorb kicks before the release of v0.0.7, you might want to give a temporary means of block so it doesn't become too used as a means of attacking slowbouncing opponents. I might suggest pressing forward to absorb a kick because at least for me, its not as natural of a block/parry direction. This could also be the parry direction for lunge if it isn't already.

[razorace]

I have no idea about the cartwheels/wall flips.

 

As for blocking kicks, I think we're going to have to wait until after the next release. I'm kind of overloaded with getting the knockdown code cleaned up in time.

[Tapela]

Strongbad is cool . Can't wait for the new version of OJP, you're awesome Razorace. Wish I could support with as many ideas as JRHockney but I don't think I could write so many specificly without getting way too confusing and unbeneficial/unusuable.

 

 

 

Anyway thanks again for your work, I greatly appreciate it and look forward to future releases, maybe I could catch a game with JRHockney or something too .

 

...Too excited to sleep