Who do you want to play as in KoTOR 3?

[JediKnight707]

I wouldn't mind a new PC

[Sith_Reven]

Reven. The storyline wouldn't be bad if perhaps Revan was nearly defeated by the sith in the unknown regions....(for a circumstancial reason of course; we wouldn't want to think Revan weak now would we). But all the same he should be back to claim his new party and then the game goes on.

[innerfears]

As much as I'd love to play as Revan again, the whole point of each game was to start from nothing and build your way up. That's what makes it so fun. To take that away and start immediately as a great Jedi/Sith, where's the fun in that? Also, to play as Revan or Exile, wouldn't the game somehow need to know which path you took? The only way it'd work is if you were stripped of your powers AGAIN, and that would just be ridiculous.

 

Definitely a new character with emphasis on facing the "true Sith" and following Revan and Exile to the Unknown Regions.. that would be badass.

[igyman]

In response to the current poll results (and since I feel my wish to play as Revan again is being threatened by the wishes for a new character) I am forced to quote myself yet again, hoping to change your minds on this matter (in favour of Revan as the main character).

 

Some say they don't want Revan as the main character again because they don't want some lame excuse for him losing his powers again, to them I pose a question: Would that excuse really bother you that much, if the rest of KoTOR 3 story is great?

[Clone L68362]

Always gonna choose Revan, no matter how small the chances are.

[igyman]

That's the spirit!

[innerfears]

Yeah but Revan losing his powers for a second time? Come on.. how good of a Jedi can you be to lose it twice? lol. I could only see it as being in the Unknown Regions around the true Sith, their force energy being so strong that it clouds your own, and you don't lose your power but can't focus on it.. and would gradually come back the more enemies you defeated.. I could see that.

[igyman]

My idea for a KoTOR 3 intro was similar to what you wrote here. I quoted it on this thread, if you want to read it just scroll up (assuming that you've set your display properties to show the most recent posts last) and you'll see it.

[Clone L68362]

Yeah but Revan losing his powers for a second time? Come on.. how good of a Jedi can you be to lose it twice? lol. I could only see it as being in the Unknown Regions around the true Sith, their force energy being so strong that it clouds your own, and you don't lose your power but can't focus on it.. and would gradually come back the more enemies you defeated.. I could see that.

 

Heeeey! I think that could work! You haven't lost your powers, you just are weakened by the strength of the True Sith. Of course, you wouldn't just get chunks of FP back by defeating enemies, the power you gain from them would be in the form of XP, which would help you level up.

[RedHawke]

(Copied from the other thread you posed this question in)

 

Some say they don't want Revan as the main character again because they don't want some lame excuse for him losing his powers again, to them I pose a question: Would that excuse really bother you that much, if the rest of KoTOR 3 story is great?

Because it breaks an RPG convention by doing so... We will start with a Level one PC, how can you possibly explain reasonably that Revan or The Exile are level one again? You can't as it is a plot point that has already been used.

 

Revan's and The Exile's days as our PC are quite over... You cannot play a game starting with a Level 20 character either, this eliminates your ability to customise and buld your character, RPG players can be broken down into groups, I won't go into them here, but suffice it to say by starting at level 20+ you would alienate a full 1/4 to 1/3 of your audience if you do this, right off the bat.

 

The stories of Revan and The Exile are already told as well, what else is there to learn other than their fates.

 

We will start with a new level one PC.

 

New Addendum: No matter what the "excuses" for Revan or The Exile to lose their levels again, all of them are not acceptable as good 'Game of The Year' RPG story points. Revan had this done in KotOR it was the great twist in the game too, the Exile had this done in TSL to a lesser extent, but only for history points, to do this to those exact characters again would lose the game any chance at any possible accolades.

[pokejedi123]

Reven. The storyline wouldn't be bad if perhaps Revan was nearly defeated by the sith in the unknown regions....(for a circumstancial reason of course; we wouldn't want to think Revan weak now would we). But all the same he should be back to claim his new party and then the game goes on.

agree,BUT he would be with those KOTOR 2 membersm who stayed alive (atton especially and he and exile should be married)

 

(for a circumstancial reason of course; we wouldn't want to think Revan weak now would we).

then he would force lighting us!*LAUGHS*but revan and exile should be as party members with KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 party members

but we need a new sith lord maybe: Darth Android

[Clone L68362]

Well, if playing as Revan from the start is impossible, there's always my idea:

 

Looking back on my explanation of how playing as Revan would work, I think I have a better idea. How bout around the time in the game when you should be level 20, there's an event going on that you need Revan to take part in (like some bad evil Sith guy) and he becomes a main charcter? He/she would have to be in DS/LS Revan robes. Like Mandalore, you can't take em off. Genius or what?

 

That's good right?

[RedHawke]

Nope sorry Clone... I know that some want this to be so, quite badly I might add, but it just isn't really possible.

 

Revan will likely be 'seen' only in cutscenes, at best Revan will have the trademark masked outfit on, either the Black Sith ones or a Brown Star Forge version, but we also may never actually 'see' Revan in KotOR III at all.

 

We will not likely even 'see' the Exile in KotOR III, just too many possible appearances.

 

The dialogue to set the previous games is going to be obvious enough as it is...

 

Revan...

Good or Evil?

Male or Female?

 

Exile...

Good or Evil?

Male or Female?

 

That is now upwards of 4 obvious questions the devs will have to work into the game, these 4 will add a ton of dialogue complexity as well.

 

Now to actually be able to play them at a point in the game you will need to add...

 

Revan...

Non-Jedi Class?

Jedi Class?

Prestiege Class?

Saber Color?

Saber Style?

 

Exile...

Jedi Class?

Prestiege Class?

Saber Color?

Saber Style?

 

Now you have increased the questionaire to 13 total questions, not to mention the dozens of additional appearance questions for The Exile would completely ruin any semblance to something that can be reasonably worked into a conversation. What are they to do? Mugshots? No way. Whatever they did it would have to be really good or else we would start feeling more like taking a quiz than playing a game.

 

Also if we did get to play Revan, like people seem to want, how would you explain them having feats that we didn't take, to play a Revan different from my own would remove me from the story somewhat. This is suicidal to do in an RPG anyway, as your main character is to be the stories focus, and not an old character from a previous campaign.

 

The 4 necissary LS/DS, M/F questions and having in-game places to tell us what happened to Revan and The Exile will be quite enough to finish their stories. I think of Revan and the Exile as the story points that will guide our neophyte Jedi through KotOR III. Kind of like the marks left by Arnie Saknussem that were followed by the main characters in Journey to the center of the Earth.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Revan...

Good or Evil?

Male or Female?

 

Exile...

Good or Evil?

Male or Female?

 

That is now upwards of 4 obvious questions the devs will have to work into the game, these 4 will add a ton of dialogue complexity as well.

 

Now to actually be able to play them at a point in the game you will need to add...

 

Revan...

Non-Jedi Class?

Jedi Class?

Prestiege Class?

Saber Color?

Saber Style?

 

Exile...

Jedi Class?

Prestiege Class?

Saber Color?

Saber Style?

This isn't exatcly that hrad to determine. You can use the dialogues to make a certain party member: Sealed apperance and personality. And if you don't like the apperance, mod it or deal with it. That is the policy all RPG games made.

 

This is suicidal to do in an RPG anyway, as your main character is to be the stories focus, and not an old character from a previous campaign.

Now I have to make a remark that Revan and the Exile are the stories focus. It has been stated time and time again through TSL in dialogues, datapads, quests, acts and decisions of the bad guys, as well as the story.

 

Here is an explanation on the example of the Exile. And if required I will make one for Revan as well.

 

(Taken from the thread 'Revan and the Sith'ari')

 

Could you please tell us?

 

I only know that the Sith we know are just dark jedi, and only cary the name.

It is so easy that I don't think that I need to say it. But anyway:

 

Who were the Sith sent to kill?

Easy, the last of the Jedi, the Exile (Ry'ghol as they call him/her)

Let me explain:

 

Nilhus, Sion and Kreia... The trio of the last Sith Lords in the Galaxy. But they were only in hte known regions. Their fanaticism and determination to complete their goals no matter what, points out to something more than just to kill Jedi and crush the Republic. To sacrifice yourself just in order to kill someone or turn them to your side is stupid... Unless there was something more to do there.

 

From what we saw in KOTOR 2, and from what we heard it is certanily something more.

 

The Jedi Masters, who we saw in KOTOR 2, always said that training Revan was a mistake they will never make again, and they always said that they were wrong when training Ry'ghol and that bad things happen and so... But none of them, never said that training Ry'ghol was a mistake. Instead they thought that it was dangerous to keep him connected to the Force, because of what he had, of what he was...

 

The Sith Lords, however, thought differeantly: They hunted him, fanaticly and determined. Why did they do it?

 

What I am about to tell, might not be accurate, but very strange at some point... Let's look at what were the goals of the Sith.

 

The Sith Lords, being so determined, could have only acted to do something, that by doing something with the Chosen One, they would control the Force. But they needed many things to do:

 

They had 2 primary objectives:

 

1. DESTROY THE REPUBLIC:

 

This objective was pretty obvious when Nilhus attacked The Telos Restoration Project AND when Vaklu decieded to ally with the Sith (and got their support). It was said many times in the game that the Republic depends on the sucessfulness of the Telos Restoration Project, and the situation on Onderon. And it wasn't such a surprising thing to attack the thing that was mostly defended: The Project was weak; Czerka was halting it; the Station was running out of fuel; And one torpedo was enough to blow it to hell. So I don't think that it was such a problem to do this.

 

And they did... They destroyed the Telos Station. Destroying the Republic; Forever...

 

2. KILL ALL OF THE REMAINING JEDI:

 

Now this objective was far more complicated to do, since the Jedi were too numerous. This objective became obvious when Nilhus destroyed Katharr, in order to exterminate all Jedi. Regretablly, some survived. But the main objective, the last of the Jedi, was no where to be found.

 

They had only ONE lead: THE EBON HAWK

 

Sion was sent out to search for Ry'ghol (Will be refered as Ryan Pano from now on). He found out that Kreia, was on the Ebon Hawk, and thought that he could lure the Republic to them. Kreia and Sion found Ryan. And so it went on. But they still had to use Atris, who was on their side to make Ryan a bait, so that he could lure out the Jedi Masters. Atris turned to the Dark Side willingly, to make Ryan a bait to lure the Sith out, so that she could turn against them and defeat them; but she failed in her attempt. There were to variants to completing their goal:

 

A) If Kreia managed to convert Ryan to the Dark Side to join the Sith, all they had to do is destroy the Republic and have Ryan kill all of the Jedi Masters.

 

Regreatably, the conflict between Kreia and Sion, which lead to it that Sion wanted to kill Ryan in order to have his revenge on Kreia; and Nilhus' determination to become the wielder of what Ryan held inside himself, turned out to be their end. And that is what occured.

 

B) BUT If Ryan chose to walk the path of the Light, then he was supposed to be killed so that Nilhus would wield what Ryan carried inside himself.

 

But the disagreements between the Sith Lords was their undoing, and so that ended up with their deaths.

 

They needed him, because he had the power to control through the Force, making him independent of it. He could control others through the Force... But it was also possible that he could control the Force himself.

 

Now, I'll need to stop here because I said too much already. I'll have to tell you more later, because there is so much more to tell, that it makes my head spin.

 

That's all I had to say...

**********************************************************

As you see, I have focused on the plot points and the more than obvious leads that Obsidian left in order to make this.

[igyman]

To RedHawke:

 

1) I never said KoTOR 3 should start with a level 20 character (that would be pretty stupid, I agree), just that Revan should be the main character.

 

2) Revan lost his powers in KoTOR 1 when the Jedi Council stripped him of his memories. In KoTOR 2 Kreia was only stripped of her powers (her background story), not her memories. What could work in KoTOR 3 is what I already said - Revan was defeated in the battle with the leader of the ''True Sith'', his life was spared as ''payment'' for weakening the Republic, but to keep the location of their capital secret, the Sith Lord stripped Revan of his powers and the memory of the planet's location (only that one memory), after that he sent him in an automated pod into Republic space (or something like that).

 

So, from my point of view I'm not suggesting a rerun of the original story, but simply a logical reason for Revan's second loss of his powers. Revan would know who he is this time and what he needs to do, but this time the player would lead him on his search for the ''True Sith''.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

We will be playing a new level one PC, no amount of ideas for having us play Revan or the Exile again are acceptable, seriously.

 

You can type all the justifications you want for our playing Revan or the Exile again but it just isn't done. If it were we done then we would have played Revan in TSL and the Exile would have never been, but it isn't done, you just don't continue characters like this, so we will have a new PC in KotOR III.

 

Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things Revan... and yet you are nothing. In the end you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone.

Revan as a PC is written out with this one line... Revan is nothing. So is the Exile actually, the Exiles un-importance was hinted to by Kreia if I'm not mistaken. (I'm sure Shem can find the line for this )

 

Such is the way of these kinds of RPG's and why Malak said this line. It leaves the next part of the story open to a new character.

 

We will hear about Revan and the Exile's fates/futures as we progress through KotOR III via dialogues, datapads, etc., but you better not expect much more or else you will set yourself up for a great disappointment.

 

I understand that this is important to you, and I'm not saying anyones ideas are bad or anything, but this just isn't a viable option for a developer to consider.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

We will be playing a new level one PC, no amount of ideas for having us play Revan or the Exile again are acceptable, seriously.

By whose judgement?

 

You can type all the justifications you want for our playing Revan or the Exile again but it just isn't done. If it were we done then we would have played Revan in TSL and the Exile would have never been, but it isn't done, you just don't continue characters like this, so we will have a new PC in KotOR III.

I believe I said this before, but I will say it again:

 

Take a look at the story of KOTOR 2... Many things point out that both of those guys are in the center of the story. If Obisidan didn't make KOTOR 2 like this, with the Sith Empire that is supposed to be defeated before they destroy everything, I wouldn't be complaining now and everything would be fine.

 

Obsidian made this mess... They will have to clean it up. No offense.

 

Revan as a PC is written out with this one line... Revan is nothing. So is the Exile actually, the Exiles un-importance was hinted to by Kreia if I'm not mistaken.

What? Are you saying that these two guys were for nothing? They are the protagnists. The entire series so far is focused on these two.

 

Such is the way of these kinds of RPG's and why Malak said this line. It leaves the next part of the story open to a new character.

I know that it is the way of RPGs. But the way TSL was ended, I doubt that it will be able to do it as it was written.

 

We will hear about Revan and the Exile's fates/futures as we progress through KotOR III via dialogues, datapads, etc., but you better not expect much more or else you will set yourself up for a great disappointment.

It's not too late. But if it happens, I'll deal with it.

 

but this just isn't a viable option for a developer to consider.

That hurts.

[RedHawke]

By whose judgement?

If they were going to have a continuing character we would have been Revan in TSL.

 

I believe I said this before, but I will say it again:

 

Take a look at the story of KOTOR 2... Many things point out that both of those guys are in the center of the story. If Obisidan didn't make KOTOR 2 like this, with the Sith Empire that is supposed to be defeated before they destroy everything, I wouldn't be complaining now and everything would be fine.

 

Obsidian made this mess... They will have to clean it up. No offense.

Obsidian made no mess, as a matter of fact after reading the cut content, I can start to see the method to their madness, from a plot perspective they left all the right doors open for a bang-up third installment. Is there a lot unanswered? Yes there is, and it was intentional.

 

Finding out what happend will be how we are drawn into the next chapter.

 

What? Are you saying that these two guys were for nothing? They are the protagnists. The entire series so far is focused on these two.

So will our third PC become a focus... just like the Exile in TSL.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

Obsidian made no mess, as a matter of fact after reading the cut content, I can start to see the method to their madness, from a plot perspective they left all the right doors open for a bang-up third installment. Is there a lot unanswered? Yes there is, and it was intentional.

Of course there was a lot left unanswered. And some of these questions directly connect to both Revan and the Exile (although most concern the Exile, because there are more questions concerning him).

 

How did the Exile become this echo in the Force? Was it really Malachor V?

Why did the Sith Lords strive so hard to destory or turn the Exile that they went into their death?

What is the point of killing one, if you are going to die yourself?

Did the Sith Lords act on their behalf or by orders?

 

So many questions, so few answeres that raise even more questions.

 

So will our third PC become a focus... just like the Exile in TSL.

How? It was easy with the Exile. He was neceseary. But now it is too entangled and complex. How can you hope to insert another character if the previous one (two) are so involved in the entire thing already?

[RedHawke]

Of course there was a lot left unanswered. And some of these questions directly connect to both Revan and the Exile (although most concern the Exile, because there are more questions concerning him).

 

How did the Exile become this wound in the Force? Was it really Malachor V? Yes, and it was because of the natural Force Bonds the Exile formed with others, with so much death at Malachor V it hurt the Exile in unimaginable ways, enough that the Exile cut him/her self off from the force.

Why did the Sith Lords strive so hard to destory or turn the Exile that they went into their death? Kreia led/tricked them into what she wanted them to do. She turned them into a test for the Exile.

What is the point of killing one, if you are going to die yourself? You lost me there.

Did the Sith Lords act on their behalf or by orders? Kreia was manipulating the whole thing.

 

So many questions, so few answeres that raise even more questions.

After reading this it is apparent you haven't played TSL enough to have gotten these story points. I did post short answers in red.

 

You have to actually talk to Kreia at the end of the game to get closure. You also need to play the game in more than one way to discover other points, this was done on purpose as well.

 

I played the Xbox version 6 times through and still learned about other story points I had missed once I got the PC version.

 

This is the problem people have with TSL, the story isn't spoon-fed to people like KotOR I was, so they cry foul or go on about Obsidian making mistakes after they play it once and don't understand much.

 

How? It was easy with the Exile. He was neceseary. But now it is too entangled and complex. How can you hope to insert another character if the previous one (two) are so involved in the entire thing already?

How would a new character be any different than the Exile was? It wouldn't. The new character would also be just as necissary.

[igyman]

If they were going to have a continuing character we would have been Revan in TSL.

 

If Bioware was in charge of making KoTOR 2, Revan would have surely been the main character again - Obsidian is a completely different team and though they had to continue where the original story ended, they wanted to make their own vision of KoTOR which is why they came up with the Exile.

They knew no one would like a story completely unrelated to Revan, but they wanted to try telling it through their own character (and judging by the results of this poll they have failed miserably). Furthermore, though the Exile had his own story, KoTOR 2 was filled with references to Revan and his whereabouts, so KoTOR 2 in its entirety was made into a prelude for the big finish (where they could bring Revan, or the Exile back, or bring out a new character, based on how much the fans like the TSL's Exile).

 

Obsidian made no mess, as a matter of fact after reading the cut content, I can start to see the method to their madness, from a plot perspective they left all the right doors open for a bang-up third installment. Is there a lot unanswered? Yes there is, and it was intentional.

 

Ofcourse there's a lot of unanswered questions! Ofcourse it was intentional!

Unfortunately Obsidian did make a certain mess and by ''mess'' I'm refering to the cut out content. It's one thing to cut out some content due to a short deadline, but it's a completely different thing to launch a game that the player can clearly see is missing some things.

I heard that some content was cut out from KoTOR 1 too, but while I was playing it I never noticed it was missing anything, I had no idea anything was cut out from KoTOR 1 until I read about it somewhere on the forum.

Like I said, the mess in TSL is its VISIBLITY of its cut out content. Everyone saw that the game is missing the HK factory, the part of Nar Shaddaa docks that is visible on the map, but the doors leading there can't be opened, etc.

My point is that if they were forced to cut out some of the content, they should have adapted the story apropriately.

[RedHawke]

If Bioware was in charge of making KoTOR 2, Revan would have surely been the main character again

Nope, even if Bioware had done the sequel Revan's story has been told. Continuing PC's are not parts of these types of RPG's. Revan getting his/her levels and powers taken away in each installment is really a lame thing to do. That is why it isn't done. I'm not saying it is impossible but it is close to it.

 

You have to cater to all your player types, and the same character alienates the Character Builder (Achiever) types, and hampers the Role Players (Socializers)... this is 2/3 of your target audience right there. The only ones who are left are the the Explorer player types, the same character over and over would also get to them.

 

Unfortunately Obsidian did make a certain mess and by ''mess'' I'm refering to the cut out content. It's one thing to cut out some content due to a short deadline, but it's a completely different thing to launch a game that the player can clearly see is missing some things.

I heard that some content was cut out from KoTOR 1 too, but while I was playing it I never noticed it was missing anything, I had no idea anything was cut out from KoTOR 1 until I read about it somewhere on the forum.

Like I said, the mess in TSL is its VISIBLITY of its cut out content. Everyone saw that the game is missing the HK factory, the part of Nar Shaddaa docks that is visible on the map, but the doors leading there can't be opened, etc.

My point is that if they were forced to cut out some of the content, they should have adapted the story apropriately.

Yes Obsidian didn't have time to clean up the stragglers, but this is not their fault LA was responsible for all Q&A testing, not Obsidian.

 

Honestly those two things you mentioned are not "Visible" cut content from TSL, the Nar-Shadaa docks don't count as elements of the game sometimes are reduced especially for a console game, perhaps too many placeables or NPC's caused Xbox slowdown. But it was nothing that made me say "missing content" when playing the game.

 

Neither does the HK factory levels, that is simply a door you cannot open in one part of the game, it says 'sub-level' not 'HK factory', nothing felt missing with these two things, especially with all the doors you can't open in KotOR I... it is only after reading about such things that we go "hey!"

[Seamhainn]

New PC as thats the game concept, and Revan and Exile making appearances...

 

Anyway as KotOR III will be published, I don't care that much.

 

Take care

[igyman]

Honestly those two things you mentioned are not "Visible" cut content from TSL, the Nar-Shadaa docks don't count as elements of the game sometimes are reduced especially for a console game, perhaps too many placeables or NPC's caused Xbox slowdown. But it was nothing that made me say "missing content" when playing the game.

 

Neither does the HK factory levels, that is simply a door you cannot open in one part of the game, it says 'sub-level' not 'HK factory', nothing felt missing with these two things, especially with all the doors you can't open in KotOR I... it is only after reading about such things that we go "hey!"

 

Sorry, but Nar Shadaa counts since you can clearly see on the map that there is something behind those doors. I'm saying that since they've cut that part of the docks out, they should have removed it from the map - that isn't such a complicated job and doesn't require more than 15 minutes of somebody's time.

 

The same goes for the Telos sublevel - you can't open that door even though the map shows that it leads to a new area. I agree though that you can't be sure the HK factory is there, unless you've read about it on a forum, but you can be sure that something is there (should have been there) and you can't visit it.

[Vladimir-Vlada]

How did the Exile become this wound in the Force? Was it really Malachor V? Yes, and it was because of the natural Force Bonds the Exile formed with others, with so much death at Malachor V it hurt the Exile in unimaginable ways, enough that the Exile cut him/her self off from the force.

Why did the Sith Lords strive so hard to destory or turn the Exile that they went into their death? Kreia led/tricked them into what she wanted them to do. She turned them into a test for the Exile.

What is the point of killing one, if you are going to die yourself? You lost me there.

Did the Sith Lords act on their behalf or by orders? Kreia was manipulating the whole thing.

 

So many questions, so few answeres that raise even more questions.

Yes, I understand all this. But why would she test the Exile? Tests are made to prepare people for something. Kreia was obviously preparing the Exile for something. And would she really go that far, even though it would kill her? She may be devious. But she's definately not a lunatic.

 

How would a new character be any different than the Exile was? It wouldn't. The new character would also be just as necissary.

Actually, it would. Look at the endings of KOTOR 1 and 2:

After KOTOR 1, it was obvious that Revan can't be the PC in the squel. His work for some time is done.

After KOTOR 2, the only one that could continue the began story is the Exile. Inserting another character would make the Exile's story pointless and entire Obisidan's work on TSL's story for nothing.

 

I think I am starting to understand how you see things. Even though you are right about a lot of things, I think that none we came to a point where we can't really say which continuation is the one that should be done:

 

We can't insert the Exile or Revan, because they are already level 20.

We can't insert another character, because the first two are tied too deeply into this.

 

This looks like a situation where we are in a maze. We dig our own way through, but we reached a wall that blocks us from the exit and each other.

If you ask me, I think that it's now up to Obisidan. It's not our decision anymore.