Dear DEV. Team plz read this

[Orao]

Hello,

 

I enjoy your game very much (well at least at certain point) but let me say this.

 

In your effort to make this game accessible to evryone you have taken the best part of the strategy from this game. The AI is just rushing you letting you no other choice than to rush on your turn. Yu don't even have time to think and to make tactical engagement.

 

For gronund battle phase you should have taken an exemple from the Massive and their Ground Control 1 and 2. They have same rules for the gameplay as yours. You can only have what you brought along with you and that will be available only if you hold strategic points. But the big difference between your gamplay and theirs is the speed.

 

The EAW is just rushing style of game whereas Ground Control is more calm with intense battles phases where using the terrain is crucial to achieve the victory. Concerning the armor well they made miracles too. You see in the game when you engage the armor you have to flank the tank if you want to make some heavy dammage. But you have found a different solution.

 

Why make ppl think what to do ? We will deal with armor with raw power. So we got the plex soldiers. One squad of plex soldiers can take out 3 squad of hovering tanks and 4 AT-ST without problem. So in order to balance that what you did ? Well you added the squash ability det pack and self destruction. But the things are far from being balanced. Because now you take you Tie-Crawler and all you do is rushing like crazy all around the map. When you have the AT-ST when you see the infantry what is the first thing you try ? Well you are chasing them, you want to squash them.

 

Now let's see what the Massive done. The infantry is transported in the APC. WHen the ifnatry is engaged by the other side if the APC is near them it will launch the smoke grenades preventing the attacker to have direct sight on the infantry. This gives you some extra time and the possibility to flank the attacker.

 

They have used only the tactics that are used in the reality. Nothing else. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

 

COncerning the IA on the ground battles. Well that's another story. There is some good things and some bad things. Good things is that the AI is using secondery attack and special unit abilities. The bad things are the next :

 

- Cheating AI (It seems to know exactly where the player's units are and which units the player has. No population cap based on planet. For that purpose I posted a pic with battle end statistics. The AI had only one planet and it had 128 ships.)

 

- Overreacting AI (All I can see is the first transport which touch the ground before my forces are wiped out)

 

- Production time of units for AI during ground engagement is greatly decreased. I experienced that more than once. I can't kill the AI units as fast as the AI gets new units produced.

 

THe final thing concerning the ground battles are map size. Maps are too small. I can cross the biggest map with the infantry in 20 secondes. Now that makes epic battles (as you used to say). Let's just talk about Hoth map. Where are trenches ? Where is that huge planet of ice ? There is nothing of all that. The space maps are not better neither. They are too small too. The nebula and the asteroid fieleds were good idea but with so small map and the 2.5D system it's just the cosmetics nothing else. You cant use them to set up the ambush.

 

I tryed hard to do some tactics over the space maps but at the end there is only one thing to do for all space maps. Use the broadside cruisers as the arty and hold the first line with capitals and frigates.

 

If we had bigger maps and the space stations in the middle of the map and not at the other end mybe we could have some rich and various tactics.

 

While I'm talking about the space maps, plz can you explain me again why you chose not to let player decide which units will start the battle ?

Can you also explain me why you automated the fighter and the bomeber launch sequence for imperials ?

 

As soon as my destroyer enter the battle she starts launching its fighters and bombers and what the AI do ? Well it rush them and in 10 second I have no bombers and fighters left. Very nice idea, thank you.

 

 

At the end I think that you made just a huge miss. This game isn't what it could have been. It seems that you enclosed your self in the Command and Conquer gameplay style with the so horrible paper sicsors stone kind of gameplay.

 

This game could have been the benchmark for RTS genre but no.

 

Diplomacy is inexisting, well basicly there is the diplomacy but the kind of diplomacy that Napoleon and Hitler were practicing. Either you are with us or against us but there is no such thing as neutrality.

 

You have chosen the storyline to take place at the very begining of the empire and the imperial senat was still there. Making military intervention with imperial fleet without Casus Belli could have cost you support in senat and credits but no there is no such thing. As for rebelion you could use the contacts within the senate in order to gather the intelligence on imperial fleet.

 

Another big miss lies in instant repairs. When the ship has sustained some heavy dammage from the battle how you can repair her without dry dock ? Your explenation was that was well too complicated and confusing. Even thogh Ican't see what is so much confusing. You blew up some parts of the ship well you'll have to replace them and to repair the hull in repair station.

 

Finaly next time ask us what we would like to have in the game. Don't assume things. Don't think that something will be too hard to understand. I'm not telling you to make the game as complicated as Masters Of Orion but the game which will have enough complexity to make you play it one year after.

 

And finaly try to get the rid of Command and Conquer gameplay style.

 

 

Thank you.

[G.M. Dschuel]

what makes me think that there will be no answer to this by devs ?

 

Well, when I first played the imperial campaign I was quite surprised seeing a little video and soon I had the "westwood feeling" but sooner I realized that there was no efford taken in telling me a good story. Holos told me what to do and I conquered planet for planet with ground battles and space battles. All looked quite same: Battle in town, walk to the upper left or right, battle in the swamp walk to the corner right. No extra missions, no surprise. I thought there could be a message "Han Solo was detected on the battleground - take him out - primary mission objectives changed" The same is in space.

 

I am sorry, but what happened to make that game like it is now ? Perhaps You can give us at least one hint ? You made good games before - what was that ? Was the purpose to sell most copies from kids to old men ? Well I am not a child, nor an old man - so I really like to get my brain used and a good game. I expect this as You get a good money for Your job.

 

What to say at last: I bet that we will get no answer, and I don't try to think about support in future - this smells like SilentHunter3, I am sorry.

[Breiti]

Besides the critic I´ve told so far (everything too simple) I have one question:

 

Where the hell is the story ????

 

I´ve been told there is a traitor.

When I finally catch him there is no cutscene, nothing.

Just the emperor telling me the traitor told everything.

Hooray !

 

Maybe this is one of the reasons why germanys biggest computergaming magazin "gamestar" gave only 81 %.

I´ll buy the magazine tomorrow and translate the test.

 

Using bold text instead of caps lock keeps the doctor away -LIAYD

[GhOsT-Jedi]

I have no problem with this game, It's been working perfectly for me, I've had alot of fun battles and I've played online alot. The only problem I have, is the community of little immature people spamming chat and talking **** about the game...

[Breiti]

Did you see anyone of the complainers complain about you or all the other people that love the game ?

 

No ? Well that´s because we accept that you like it and that´s it.

We have a place for discussions and that´s here. And if you don´t like what we are talking about ... .

 

This is what people call "freedom of speech".

 

 

 

-----------------------------------

In jeder Diskussion liegt ein Fünkchen Wahrheit und wenn du dich dem verschließt bleibst du in genau dem Nichts aus dem du gekommen bist.

[Spaxspore]

I love the game to... we are just putting forth constructive critism in order to make the game BETTER. No game is perfect.. especialyl when you first get it.. thats what mods and patchs are for.

[wedge2211]

Constructive criticism is great...but...it really ought to be phrased more tactfully in a less hostile manner than many of the people here have done. The Petroglyph developers actually visit these forums; you'll have more of an impact on them if you are tactful than if you say something like, "HEY DEVS your game has major FLAWS like 1) I don't like it and 2) it sucks."

 

...Just a note.

[Jmaster3265]

Good points, i'm surprised this topic hasn't been deleted or locked by any mods yet. Most topics like this lead to flames or if they don't mods close them.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Now, either you all get back to actually discussing about Orao's post or just don't post.

As long as it does not degenerate into just bashing the game, threads will not be closed.

 

I don't always like the way some complainers are doing there...uhhh...complaining but they do not outright spam or bash anything, nor do they offend any one of the lovers. Our positions as moderators is to mediate conflicts and keep the place clean, not use our powers to shut people up whenever they have different opinions from ours or from the majority's.

 

As such, I'm giving the thread a chance and this goes as a public warning that if lovers start whining about and bashing complainers, you're going to get clamped down upon too.

 

-LIAYD

[Orao]

Whoa wait a second Jmaster. Why they should close it. I didn't flame the dev team. I was pointing on the flaws in this game. We all wanted this game to be the ultimate SW RTS game.

 

Ever since they annouced the game they are talking about epic battles. With pop cap of 25 per map where is that great epic battle ? WIth the space maps so small where is that epic feeling of the battle ? With the ships being raped easily than a paper where is that epic feeling ?

 

Sorry Jedi but they just wanted to correct initial error of unbalance which conducted them initialy to the this result.

 

Honnestly when you attack the space station just tell me what tactics do you use ?

 

I bet that is always the same. All you have to do is to have solid first line and the arty to bomb from behind.

 

They also said that the numbers will not matter in the battle. But that is not true at all. You can't change the situation in your favor if you are outnumbered.

 

At the end of rebel and imp campaign I finished them both by just doing mass production of units. In HW I was limited with just 3 capital ships so I had to use them at my advantage. Moreover those were long to buiold and not cheap at all.

 

In EAW all I do is building either ISD or Mon Calamari cruisers which are backed up by tartan cruiser and/or corellian corvettes. AL that so I can hold the first line and give the time to my broadside cruiser to bomb the hell out of the ennemy station.

 

If this is all you wanted then fine. I'm glad for you but for me those things are the obvious flaws.

 

Go ahead and check my thread "Cheap AI tactics" and you will see that the AI is doing mass production of units for rebelion which completly kills the game and the SW spirit.

 

Now read my post from the begining and you will see that I made some propositions to enhace the gameplay.

 

And just for Wedge :

 

Sorry but most of ppl who are posting critisicme are feeling like let down since most thing which were promised are not in the game. I'm not talking about the graphics and the cinematic camera and so on but about tactical possibilities.

 

HOw long did your capital ship last against bombers in EAW and how long did you last in the bomber against the capital ship in X-Wing vs Tie Fighter ?

[Spam57]

one point i would like to make about ground soldiers, you made a point about Tie Maulers being effective, ok they are, but infantry are cheap, you can build 2 PLex Squads to Equal one Tie Mauler, and guess who wins? My point is that infantry are just as important and as strong as any vehicle if you use them effectively.... en masse, they are great, but you have to have some backup support, they cant fight just all by themselves, but at the same time you cant really fight without them.

 

Seriously, no caps lock. Use the tags instead for bold text. -LIAYD

[Darth_Torpid-PG]

I welcome all opinions, positive or negative - both kinds are useful as long as it is kept constructive.

 

From reading your post, it seems that some of the things you are running into are bugs (especially some of the AI building problems). I will forward them to the proper people and see if they can't be fixed.

 

As to the lack of tactics, I have had this discussion with many people even before the game was ever released. For example, we had the artist team swearing that there wasn't any tactics in the game – that you could just rush and win every time. So we designers invited them to play us and prove their point - and the artists got slaughtered.

 

The point I am trying to make here as that there are many more tactical options than many people give the game credit for, but the game is very new and some people may not have found them yet. A well-played special ability can make all the difference in the world, for example.

 

As to the "dumbing down" of the game, yes we had to make some very hard decisions as to which systems to streamline or cut to make the game more accessible to the masses without losing the hardcore players. I have mentioned a few times that it is a very hard line to walk, and not everyone will be pleased. I think we did a very good job with it, but other opinions may vary.

 

We will make every effort to fix bugs and balance issues that are genuine problems. Other issues that are part of the core gameplay are not likely to change, at least until the expansion/sequel (if such things occur).

 

Please continue to post your concerns/feedback and such here (positive or negative) - they ARE read, and we ARE listening.

[Perfect Soldier]

Overall I think the game is great but a few things should be added:

-Different types of terrain that give unqiue bonuses and disadvatages i.e. Rain forest gives stealth yet decreases accuracy greatly.

 

-There should be morei nteraction with terrain. i.e. A tank would go through swamp easier than infantry but not as well in hills

 

-More of those stragetic infantry locations(The ones where infantry turn green) and different types of them (trenches)

 

-Space maps need to be a bit bigger and more variety with them. I love ambushing by using asteroids and nebulas but sometimes it feels very restrictive so I think the maps should be increased and a few more ambushing areas.

 

- Models for infantry and such I think need a bit more work. They look alright at best but it would be awesome if they could see some more attention.

 

-Many people have been asking to be able to form their own fleets.Perhaps 2 boxes should appear one reinforcements and another Battle fleet. Then let the player drag and drop which every unit they want and start the battle

 

Now many people have been asking for persistant damage but in my opinion itwouldnt work in this game. Ship repairs would just slow the game down and at most likely feel like a chore. I find it funny that many people complain that a ship was very weakend and they lost. Yet if it was so weakend why didnt he/she just finish it off?

[shadowsfm]

the best way to make every one happy is add more options, some people want deplomacy, some dont. some like pirates, some dont

[Orao]

Thank you for replying.

 

I know that you will not make some deep gameplay changes now that everything is finished but may we still hope to have the ability to turn off/on the automatic launch of fighters/bombers and the ability to make our choice on which forces are engaged first ?

 

For the rest well I'll mod the game and I'll see with what I'll end up.

 

Once again thanks.

[Goldenshadow]

its too easy to criplle ships by using bombers that persistent damage would need some mechanism to repair those types of things quickly, or instantly, such as parking your fleet by a friendly space station.and enemy ships which have had their engines taken out are unable to move from that planet for an entire galatic day. until its repaired. and for that matter, all damage should take 1 day to repair since movement speed is quite fast. taking only a fraction of a day to counter attack a damaged fleet.

 

One thing that would need to be added is the user interface improved for displaying individual ships in the galatic map with detailed view describing each ship's condition.

[DS_Vespidbat]

Thank you for replying.

 

I know that you will not make some deep gameplay changes now that everything is finished but may we still hope to have the ability to turn off/on the automatic launch of fighters/bombers and the ability to make our choice on which forces are engaged first ?

 

i like to have auto launch fighter and bombers easiest way to destract ur foe when u send in ur acc/VSD/or ISD

i do very like the chat rooms in multiplayer, makes me feel home especially live8 he came from zone and most ppl there(including me)."Home Sweet Home" :-D

[walpurgisng]

I think people should relax and enjoy the game. EAW is enjoyable and fun, but if you expect too much, ull never get it. Be glad that their even working on this game and still patching it, look at KOTOR II, Lucas crapped the bed on the patching of that. So count your blessings and relax--and remember tone and mood of a rant makes it helpful or slanderous.

[Breiti]

Hello,

 

I just wanted to say that I like the way petroglyph deals with the community.

 

There are bugs in mp ? two days later they are fixed

 

People complain : There is a statement in the forum.

 

This is not standard and I appreciate this effort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

But if I´m allowed to post some suggestions to EaW ... here they are :

 

- Change the land maps : Make them differ more, make them bigger, make them more complex. Do something that I realize that this is a different map that has to be played differently

 

- Allow me to choose wich ships enter the space battle at first

 

- Tune up the galactic map (maybe a bit of diplomacy ... anything ??)

 

- Increase the droid - statistics and decrease the font size so that I can see more infos at one glance

[Guest DarthMaulUK]

Just a quick word on the maps. Star Wars is not about large scale battles on ground. Especially around this timeline. Having larger maps would be pointless, and those who complain really just dont want to go into combat so quickly. EaW is geared toward swift combat and having tight maps makes it more interesting.

 

Remember in the demo, if you scouted around Tatooine, you will find pockets of build pads, and other useful items to help. A good tactic would be to search these out with your scout units, or even send a small scout first ahead first before you launch a full scale assault. Its all about planning ahead and using tactics to get the win.

 

Multiplayer is such good fun despite the problems and the Gamespy factor

 

DMUK

[Necroe]

for those whining about the story...do u realize how hard it is to tell a story when everyone already knows it?

[shadowsfm]

its just, it could use some cut seens.

[Breiti]

For the maps:

 

right now there are (except the reinforcement points) no real strategic points on the map. No bridges I could fortify, no hills I could climb to get increased line of sight etc.

And : I want to go into battle as soon as possible, but : I want it to last longer !

 

For the story:

 

Throughout tons of books, videogames, movies etc. there were plenty of additional stories in the SW Universe. And the timeline between Episode 3 and 4 has not been told so far.

And even if: Who prevents the developers from just creating some new aspects of a story ?

And if they´d just stick to the story they already have in a game: Who prevents them from creating cutscenes ? I don´t want a story that´s being told by holograms.

 

There are many things we can argue about : Some people like the maps, some don´t, some like the strategic map, some don´t ... but please : Don´t call the story good developed and well presentated.

 

p.s. i love multiplayer in sw:eaw because you actually don´t need the story

[wedge2211]

I think the ground maps are big enough (if maybe filled with too many tight passages). I find plenty of opportunities to develop different ground tactics in different situations. It's the space maps that are constricting. Turbolaser range is across three-quarters of the map, giving you no room to maneuver at all--espeically with big ponderous capital ships.