Internet Collapse: Speculation?

[Astrotoy7]

Speak for yourself! If the world goes to hell in a hand basket Im still going to be online chatting to people I know. And if it goes down my ISP will have to deal with an irate me.

 

power down, radiation posioning, death and disease.. you wont be chattin' to no one !!

 

mtfbwya

[Darth InSidious]

The wall street crash was the main veering point towards Hitler becoming Chancellor, so I would concur with lukeiamyourdad.

 

Remember, US were heavily lending to Weimar Germany at this point previous to the crash. Also, although Hitler did use political means to get into office in 1933, afterwards it was, well you know the rest...

 

I disagree. The harshness terms of the Treaty of Versailles, in particular the War Guilt clause, and anger with them, a dislike of the Weimar Republic, which was perceived as weak, and the preference of the Second Reich under the Kaisers, fear of the 'Red Peril' and Hindenburg's senility were far bigger reasons for Hitler's rise. He had already gained a majority in the Reichstag before the WSC, IIRC.

 

Also, Hitler's rise to and consolidation of power was hardly entirely above board. It had a veneer of legality, sure, but remember that little stunt with the act to create the position of the Fuhrer. First, he had the SA (or was it the SS?) surround the building where they were meeting, threatened members of the Reichstag, and then both counted the Communist members as at the meeting, and as having voted for the bill, despite the fact that they had gone into hiding.

 

As for rioting, the Nazis tried an uprising in the mid-1920's, the Munich Putsch(?) and Hitler was sent to a luxury prison for it, where he wrote "Mein Kampf". In 1932-4 the Nazis gained power through a mixture of fear tactics, propaganda, and playing on the emotions of the public over the previous ten years. The Crash was a substantial help, but Hitler would not have become Chancellor without the support of Hindenburg and his circle, and their fear of Communism.

[Kensai]

I disagree. The harshness terms of the Treaty of Versailles, in particular the War Guilt clause, and anger with them, a dislike of the Weimar Republic, which was perceived as weak, and the preference of the Second Reich under the Kaisers, fear of the 'Red Peril' and Hindenburg's senility were far bigger reasons for Hitler's rise. He had already gained a majority in the Reichstag before the WSC, IIRC.

 

Hitler and the Nazi party gained at best 2.6% (might be 2.4%, in that region anyway ) of the vote by 1928, the 1932 election was where they became the largest party. Also the Treaty of Versailles had been an underlining point but really didn't become enthused until the WSC which decimated not only the lower class but alot of the middle class businesses and such, this led to a huge outpouring of extremist support. The Weimar looked prosperous in it's "Golden Years" when Stresemann was the man at the helm. Although obviously it wasn't all roses and wine as they found out. In times of economic crisis the public will undoubtedly strive for an extremist faction, this is shown in the huge rise of communism at the same time as Nazism.

 

Also another huge factor in Hitler becoming chancellor was the miscalculation that peopl such as Hindenburg and von Papen could control him, which was a huge undoing...:S

 

Also, Hitler's rise to and consolidation of power was hardly entirely above board. It had a veneer of legality, sure, but remember that little stunt with the act to create the position of the Fuhrer. First, he had the SA (or was it the SS?) surround the building where they were meeting, threatened members of the Reichstag, and then both counted the Communist members as at the meeting, and as having voted for the bill, despite the fact that they had gone into hiding.

 

I agree with you here.

 

As for rioting, the Nazis tried an uprising in the mid-1920's, the Munich Putsch(?) and Hitler was sent to a luxury prison for it, where he wrote "Mein Kampf". In 1932-4 the Nazis gained power through a mixture of fear tactics, propaganda, and playing on the emotions of the public over the previous ten years. The Crash was a substantial help, but Hitler would not have become Chancellor without the support of Hindenburg and his circle, and their fear of Communism.

 

Putsch means Coup in German. Also Hitler was sent to prison for 9 months via a farce of a trial in which the Judge supported his views and let him off easily. I wouldn't say that they gained power entirely through propaganda and public speaking, for instance a province in Prussia (I should find this out, sorry) had a 25% vote for the Nazi's by 1932 yet Hitler and apparently no other ranked official of the Nazi's ever went their, they also didn't have a branch in this region.

 

Also, Hitler did mention in his book and thereafter that he would obtain the German nation through political means, obviously he could see that a forceful atempt upon the reichstag and government again would ultimately fail.

 

Obviously Hindenburg is a major factor, as are the people who though he could be subdued, also their fear of communism may have been a factor so I agree their.

 

My overlining point is economic crisis leads to extremist movements, and people began to join them, whether communist or nationalist. It could of gone either way up until 1931/32, from there on it seemed inevitable that Hitler would devastate Germany.

 

Just a quick note, we have ass raped this thread...

[Darth InSidious]

Hitler and the Nazi party gained at best 2.6% (might be 2.4%, in that region anyway ) of the vote by 1928, the 1932 election was where they became the largest party. Also the Treaty of Versailles had been an underlining point but really didn't become enthused until the WSC which decimated not only the lower class but alot of the middle class businesses and such, this led to a huge outpouring of extremist support. The Weimar looked prosperous in it's "Golden Years" when Stresemann was the man at the helm. Although obviously it wasn't all roses and wine as they found out. In times of economic crisis the public will undoubtedly strive for an extremist faction, this is shown in the huge rise of communism at the same time as Nazism.

Sure, but it's hardly as though the Nazis rioted, rushed through the country, putting everything in their way to fire and the sword, etc etc, is it?

 

Also another huge factor in Hitler becoming chancellor was the miscalculation that peopl such as Hindenburg and von Papen could control him, which was a huge undoing...:S

Indeed it was. Mind you, their primary objective was achieved- the Nazis drove the Communists out of Germany very effectively.

 

 

Putsch means Coup in German.

I know. I was asking if I was right that it was the Munich Putsch, not a different one

 

Also Hitler was sent to prison for 9 months via a farce of a trial in which the Judge supported his views and let him off easily. I wouldn't say that they gained power entirely through propaganda and public speaking, for instance a province in Prussia (I should find this out, sorry) had a 25% vote for the Nazi's by 1932 yet Hitler and apparently no other ranked official of the Nazi's ever went their, they also didn't have a branch in this region.

Sure, but the speeches would be publicised in news reels etc, no?

 

Also, Hitler did mention in his book and thereafter that he would obtain the German nation through political means, obviously he could see that a forceful atempt upon the reichstag and government again would ultimately fail.

Indeed. He tried it before and failed miserably

Obviously Hindenburg is a major factor, as are the people who though he could be subdued, also their fear of communism may have been a factor so I agree their.

 

My overlining point is economic crisis leads to extremist movements, and people began to join them, whether communist or nationalist. It could of gone either way up until 1931/32, from there on it seemed inevitable that Hitler would devastate Germany.

 

Just a quick note, we have ass raped this thread...

 

Sure, it was a catalyst, but dissatisfaction was already there, as was economic instability. There had been the hyper-inflation of the mid-'20's for example, the disastrous use of Proportion Representation in Weimar leading to fragile governments, the ineffectiveness of previous Chancellors, etc etc.

 

(yes, we have rather dragged it off topic completely...)

[The Seeker]

[The Source]

My first computer was at the age of 4, which was the infamous Commadore 64. I studied the insides and outs of Basic and memorized them by 5/6 years old. When I was 11 years old, the computer world was in a state of flux. Nothing really massive had taken place. However, everyone who had touched a computer mastered Basic. From the age of 13-19, I had no intrest in computers, for they didn't arrive in full flux at the time. Graduated from highschool (1994) with the knowledge of the Apple IIe, but it was still all in Basic. At the age of 20 (1996), I bought my first (Out of the pocket.) computer. Packard Bell: Pentium I. Internet didn't enter my life until around 1998, which I formed an online buisness while in college. (Clinton Years.) Ever since I have been online, and purchase about four computers.

 

Why did I tell you all this?

If the Internet collapsed, the outside world will still spin and turn. The hardest generation to adjust will be anyone who started highschool around 1994ish (I am guessing.). The world economy will not crash, and it will not cause the world to end. The most that will happen is that we start sending information through a primitive form call 'Postal' service.

[MachineCult]

LMAO

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

@Kensai-

The point is that they weren't going around destroying everything in their path at that point.

[Kensai]

Yeah, I saw the WSC part and just went completely off topic...sorry...

 

Back on topic though, I have debated this for some time and feel that the internet, under current circumstance, will not collapse. The thing that is more worrying to my mind is the threat of a fully privatised service run by big businesses. This would eradicate a general WAN and use a group of smaller covering WAN's used by one company, this is already in effect but not at the level I am sure will happen in the near future.

 

Whatever the means, no one can stop all the illegal stuff on the internet, and most certainly if this is the case (above) then pirate networks will be established.

[Darth InSidious]

Are we talking about the internet or the web now?

 

Personally, I think that the web is far too small a thing still to really have much of an effect worldwide.

[Jae Onasi]

This reminds me a bit of the Y2K 'crisis' where everyone worried that the computers would go down. Well, 2000 rolled around, a few computers had tiny issues, and the world went on pretty much as usual.

 

Unless there was some catastrophe that took the internet down (nuclear war wiping out electronics, some kind of bizarre natural phenomenon, etc.), if the 'net ever did go down, I bet that business and gov't both would be scrambling to get it back up immediately. They wouldn't want to lose the business for any length of time.

[Astrotoy7]

lolz... the classic "forum thread that results in a discussion about Nazis" scenario. In my 7 years of foruming across here and TFN ive seen it many a time. Each time its hilarious as hell

 

We've all seen the History(aka Hitler) Channel lolz

 

* * *

 

Back to the internet breaking... it's NOT ! I cant even believe the news source that reported it originally would be so ignorant as to its components as to even siggest such a thing idiots Like sithy said, this isnt the Matrix

 

mtfbwya

[Darth InSidious]

Not even This one?

 

@Jae: Too true! Bored scaremongers are an abomination unto Nuggan...

[Jae Onasi]

I'm not saying it _can't_ happen (and if it did, it'd probably be some incredibly bright and talented teenager doing it), it's just that a. it's unlikely and b. we'd deal with it. The people who would have a tough time would be those that had a significant business base online or those organizations that do a lot via internet. I think lots of us still use computers a lot, but don't absolutely depend on the internet for business/gov't service (e.g., police, fire).