Force Power Suggestions

[Neon]

I always liked to be able to push switches from a distance with the force.

[razorace]

Which switches don't let you do that?

[Grey Raven]

So, it would really be more of an concentration meter than a energy meter. I've thought about something like that. The problem I see with it is that it only really works for constant effect powers. Instant powers and such just wouldn't work too good.

 

Sure it would. Simply add a multiplier to all the force-based powers. For instance, the height of a force jump would be the base jump height multiplied by (ps->fd.forcepower / 4), and the velocity would be base velocity multiplied by (ps->fd.forcepower / 8). Of course, you'd have to do some type-casting, but it would work. For things like speed, use the same kind of multiplier, but change the values for balance.

 

Secondly, charging up your Force would probably be too slow of a build up compared to the speed of the Force usage in the movies.

 

What I had in mind was making the force meter have instant and automatic effect on the player. Say your speed is based on a base speed multiplied by half of your force meter system. The idea is to make this effect automatic. As the player charges his meter, the code automatically applies the changes to his speed, jump height, jump velocity, defense, offense etc. However, to keep the player in control of what's happening to him, program a maximum auto-level. In english, once the player has reached a 25% increase in his speed, he would not become any faster until he pressed a button to activate his force speed, regardless of the charge of his meter.

 

How about starting with a pool of FP automatically then getting more by charging? Like starting with half your potential then needing charging the rest.

 

Bingo, but something less than half. More like 10 to 25% meter. The exact value would have to be determined through actual beta testing, but anywhere between that range would be a safe bet.

[razorace]

Sure it would. Simply add a multiplier to all the force-based powers. For instance, the height of a force jump would be the base jump height multiplied by (ps->fd.forcepower / 4), and the velocity would be base velocity multiplied by (ps->fd.forcepower / 8). Of course, you'd have to do some type-casting, but it would work. For things like speed, use the same kind of multiplier, but change the values for balance.

Then what prevents you from just constantly using lightning, push, etc? Having your concentration being affected by getting hit would only work if the player actually gets hit.

 

I guess my issue is that I don't see a point of having a seperate button for charging. When would you ever want to not charge?

[wisealma]

Then what prevents you from just constantly using lightning, push, etc? Having your concentration being affected by getting hit would only work if the player actually gets hit.

 

I guess my issue is that I don't see a point of having a seperate button for charging. When would you ever want to not charge?

 

 

Charginig up a force power should come at a cost. Perhaps, the person is disabled (can't move) while they charge? Or perhaps they are severly hampered in some way. Also, the time it takes to charge is long enough to expose them to an attack.

[wisealma]

I always liked to be able to push switches from a distance with the force.

 

 

This concept was key to making a JK game feel like the Star Wars universe. There is nothing like leveraging the force to interact with the environment (like throwing things at people, flipping switches, breaking into secret areas by smashing rocks etc)

 

I know many people would love to see this factor brought back into the game!

[wisealma]

Then what prevents you from just constantly using lightning, push, etc? Having your concentration being affected by getting hit would only work if the player actually gets hit.

 

I guess my issue is that I don't see a point of having a seperate button for charging. When would you ever want to not charge?

 

 

There should be a reward for keeping your your force meeter full, and a cost for letting it drop at all (using it). For example, if it is full, you have the full sensitivy to the force, allowing you to use your lightsaber, dodge attacks, etc at your best ability). As you use the force at all, your force enhanced normal abilities (saber, dodging, speed etc) should diminish. This will naturally drive people to conserve the force until they really need it. Once they use it, they are not as able as they were when their force meeter was full. They become a little slower, don't dodge as well, less effective with their weapon (accuracy, hit power etc).

 

Thoughts?

[wisealma]

How about starting with a pool of FP automatically then getting more by charging? Like starting with half your potential then needing charging the rest.

 

How about earning more force power during around by accomplishing certain things? Jedi's have to heal so many other people, for example (good deed) and sith have to kill so many people a certain way? (do something bad)

[wisealma]

Also, as a hitch to balance things out a little: I can't be the only one to realize that the dark side powers nerf the light side. The only useful light power is absorb, and that is buggy. Therefore, any use of light side-oriented powers would come off as usual, but the dark side powers, due to the idea that cause a much greater more chaotic flow of energy to flow through the body, would actually do damage to the player who uses them. The greater the power of the dark side power, the health it would drain to use.

 

Why not make the light force powers neutral, and just create more offensively comparable force powers to those of the dark side?

[razorace]

wisealma, please try to place your replies into one post. It's much easier to read that way.

 

Charginig up a force power should come at a cost. Perhaps, the person is disabled (can't move) while they charge? Or perhaps they are severly hampered in some way. Also, the time it takes to charge is long enough to expose them to an attack.

I think that would really slow down the combat and it's not movie realistic. Jedi never slow down in combat to "focus".

 

I know many people would love to see this factor brought back into the game!

When is it not in the game? Most of the switches I can think of are Force activatible.

 

There should be a reward for keeping your your force meeter full, and a cost for letting it drop at all (using it). For example, if it is full, you have the full sensitivy to the force, allowing you to use your lightsaber, dodge attacks, etc at your best ability). As you use the force at all, your force enhanced normal abilities (saber, dodging, speed etc) should diminish. This will naturally drive people to conserve the force until they really need it. Once they use it, they are not as able as they were when their force meeter was full. They become a little slower, don't dodge as well, less effective with their weapon (accuracy, hit power etc).

This sounds like the Fatigue Meter...just with a different name.

 

How about earning more force power during around by accomplishing certain things? Jedi's have to heal so many other people, for example (good deed) and sith have to kill so many people a certain way? (do something bad)

1. We never really see Jedi "heal" other people in major capacities in the movies.

2. This would totally bone both sides of the force in one on one duels.

3. We've already had the idea of having a Force power that's based on a player's combat ability (IE, good light sider parrying or good attacking for dark siders) and affects your Force regen rate.

 

Why not make the light force powers neutral, and just create more offensively comparable force powers to those of the dark side?

I wasn't a huge fan of the "other" offensive powers given to Light siders in the original Jedi Knight. I think light siders should have better sensing abilities or other advantages than offensive force powers.

[JRHockney*]

Five in a row? I think thats a new record isn't it? Is that Alma69 from moviebattles 2? If so, good to see you. If not...um....still good to see you! LOL

[da_chimp]

going from the books jedi can heal each other and themselves healing others requires alot more concentration though

 

i agree with razor on the whole jedi not haveing offensive force powers because there more for letting things flow there coarse unlike the sith who bend the force to the will which is why you never see a jedi go bonsai!!!!!! catch some hand crafted lightning keeping in mind yoda did not make the lightning he threw at dooku he just redirected it

 

so heres an idea or an elaboration of someone elses if its already come up

 

concertration- instead of physicaly draining the player its a drain on the mind it would need a new bar thingy on the hud, concertration recharges all the time more so while stationary or meditating a rather slow recharge rate on all but the last which would be considerabley faster it decreases when a power is used instead of the FP bar, but there is a difference between it and the normal FP bar, its a case of the more you have the cheaper Force powers are to the point where you get around 5-15 secs of force spaming before you start to worry about force consumtion but thats not all when you concertration gauge starts to get low about 20% the screen starts to get blury not the the point where its impossible to hit someone with the pistol just more difficult as well as the fact that force powers get less effective as the gauge goes down

[razorace]

So, the only reason why the concentration bar is seperate from the FP is because low concentration reduces aim and makes the screen blurry?

[da_chimp]

well sortof the bar part is really just there for teh n00bs who think that unlimited force power is cool untill you get the side effects from useing teh force too much

[rgamble]

I've disabled certain powers, but due to what I've read here, I might try re-enabling them for now, see how it goes. But even sticking with the basics (push/pull, saber throw, jump etc), I've noticed that most of the time, I'm focusing on conserving my fp for saber combat rather than using fp to try and push someone. I don't know many people that don't max out force push/pull, so maybe in this case, a stronger rank might not influence your ability to counter it. I was thinking a chance to fail would be something to introduce. By that I mean making a certain window (rear quarter at rank 3, rear half at 2, rear three-quarters (outside field of view) at rank 1) where if someone hits them with that power, there's a much greater chance that it will work against that person (since they essentially aren't going to be able to pay as much attention to that particular opponent). Gunners etc probably shouldn't have nearly as much defense against someone they aren't facing, since they're concentrating on trying to shoot someone from a distance half the time.

 

Anyhow, the balancing etc I'll leave in your hands. The bottom line of what I was trying to say is that I've increased the FP recharge rate to 500 on my server, and I've found it to be a really interesting change. My opinion is admittedly biased, since I rarely use force powers when I'm dueling anyways. But I've found that the slower recharge rate made sitting down almost a crucial part, and having to pay attention to your surroundings that much more important. The increased recharge rate for sitting is greatly appreciated in this way, and is a lot like the meditation (I think) used by Qui-Gon during Ep 1. I've gotten to the point that unless it's a real nasty duel, I can usually take on a few opponents before I've used enough fp that I have to sit down and get my fp back, even with the increased recharge time.

 

Anyhow, that's it for my input on this matter at present. Gotta get ready for work, I'm afraid.

 

Have fun, everyone! Talk to you later.

[ensiform]

I don't know many people that don't max out force push/pull

 

i use no push or pull in my force config

[razorace]

Right now, players are vulnerable to push/pull when facing away from their opponents. As for setting the defensive arc to be based on force skill level. I'll have to think about it.

 

Finally, gunners are concentrating just as much as saber users. I don't think it would be fair to make the pull/push defense not work as well for gunners.

[Grey Raven]

Then what prevents you from just constantly using lightning, push, etc?

Using any neutral or light-side power would halt the charging of the meter, while using dark-side powers would still allow you to charge, but would consume health for the duration you use them. The only way for a dark-sider to regain that health would be to drain it from someone else, which would require a whole separate set of strategies. The goal is to promote the idea that using the light-side is not overtly powerful, requiring a harder path to tred, but its more defensive qualities would promote self-preservation, while using the dark-side grants the player quick and easy access to great offensive power, but at the cost of self-preservation.

 

 

Having your concentration being affected by getting hit would only work if the player actually gets hit.

By "getting hit" I meant any time either DP or HP are deducted from your current playerstate. If your hit with a lightsaber, you lose charge. If your saber makes contact with another, you lose charge, very much like like the DP, but much less forgiving. The catch would be that instead of losing, say 5 to 10 points, you would lose 50% of your current total. This would be much more difficult to manage, especially since your DP regen would still drain your FP meter. The entire set-up would require some pretty fancy finger flying; if you intend to stay alive, of course ;-).

[razorace]

mmm, does that mean that Dark Siders would die if they overused their force powers?

[Vruki Salet]

They could get all mutated and ugly instead!

[Grey Raven]

mmm, does that mean that Dark Siders would die if they overused their force powers?

 

No. A health bonus would be awarded to players who maintain a certain charge level for a certain period of time. Because the dark-side powers would allow the meter to keep charging, dark-siders would be able to use this to they're benefit. This, too, has a catch, though. The bonus would be global to all force-users, whether dark or light, so all players benefit. The trade-off that balances things out: light-siders lose no health for using the force, but are more vulnerable to losing force charge; dark-siders are less vulnerable to losing charge, but using the force consumes their health. The dark side would really depend on the health bonus to stay alive (sort of "feeding" off the Force, get it?), whereas the light side would not require it, as their powers are centered around defense and self-preservation. This whole idea plays on a few references from EPIII and EPVI.

 

They could get all mutated and ugly instead!

 

It's an idea, but would require alot of external (non-code-based) work that probably wouldn't be worth our while. If you're gonna make THAT big a change, you might as well just make a new game!

[JRHockney*]

They could get all mutated and ugly instead!

 

We would need a skinner with alot of time on their hands to do that. They would have to make at least one extra skin for each character and then we would have to code it so they switch to that skin when this mutate thing happens....or something like that.

 

Maybe if it was just a mild mutation like gray skin and red eyes or something, it would take less time, but otherwise, it would take forever.

[Vruki Salet]

I was just joking, even though it would be a funny/neat thing to have happen on rare occasions. I didn't really mean for someone to code this in and provide skins etc.

[JRHockney*]

I was just joking, even though it would be a funny/neat thing to have happen on rare occasions. I didn't really mean for someone to code this in and provide skins etc.

 

 

Awww, just when I was starting to like the idea! LOL! Come on skinners! I have a project for you!!!

[314566]

The direction you're pressing could decide the direction you're "shot" to, so if you're pressing forward you do the SP speed+jump thing perhaps, while staying still does a very high one, without much direction.

 

This could have the side effect of making it harder to jump away from fights, since you'd be restricted to "low" jumps or having to charge it.

 

What about if tapping forward twice lets you do the speed, jump thing and just holding forward lets you jump forward like in the movies.