KOTOR 3 should be like Oblivion

[khawk]

And something no one has mentioned is skills training, and usage. It would be nice if they did it similarly to Morrowind, where you only advance if you actually use it, or pay someone to train you- how about some useful, unique skills that can't be learned without finding a specific teacher (sub-quests anyone?)? I know that they are unlikely to change the advancement system from that of the previous two titles, so how about modifying it? How about if you start becoming either uber-ds/ls, you are literally RESTRICTED to that dislipline and then universal powers start to cost more (since you're just sooo good/bad)?

 

Yes, I am off the same opinion. I currently play oblivion and I really think that the level up system should be changed! Why is your character able to make a stasis field when he/she never used stun or stasis? Why could you have so many forcepowers when you never use one and focus on combat with the lightsaber? Why all the restrictions based on level? Why wait till you are for example level 18 to choose master heal while you have used cure and heal a 100 times?

Maybe if you often use your lightsaber you don't have to choose a feat to make better attack / damage bonus but you simply obtain it because you have used it so often. You get messages like: "Your lightsaber skill has increased"

So far the only problem I can see with this system is that your npc's will kill a lot of your enemies to but considering that, maybe you can have an advanced customisation for them as well. Simply select a class on what they should do and possibly learn from them to make you better with whatever. Maybe learn how to be more effective with force powers or the lightsaber or perhaps you are very good at building and improving items, like alchemy in Oblivion. I think this thing is really overlooked and it should certainly be considered by Lucasarts. I think it isn't too difficult to do this and it would be a great bonus.

[Carlo El Sanchez]

Oblivion + KOTOR = best RPG ever made.

[aner21]

"Oblivion + KOTOR = best RPG ever made."

 

I think KotOR could learn a lot with OB. Specially regarding how you evolve your character. I've been through this discussion in another thread. Just having the powers/feats there on a screen regardless of which you actually use just ticked me off. Sometimes I ended up choosing some feats or powers only because the ones I wanted were still locked.

 

I'm all for more species for the PC, for me Jaden Korr will always be a female twi'lek regardless of canon. I don't see the problem in a romantic relation between different species as long as they are humanoids, "beauty's in the eyes of the beholder" right?? You don't get married like in Fable and you don't have kids so what's the problem?? It's not the purpose of the game to spawn some sort of hybrid is it? In another thread someone discussed romantic options and said that lesbian/gay romantic options should not be discussed. In KotOR you had Juhani as an option if your female and I didn´t feel like killing myself over it.

 

In previous posts some said that guilds/factions aren't possible in KotOR universe. Then my question is: what are the Jedi, Sith, Black Vulkars, Hidden Becks, the Exchange, Czerka Corporation, Genoharadan, Red Eclipse and Serroco if not guilds/factions of that SW universe? You just can't be a part of most of them (I really would've liked being a slaver in TSL)

I would also like it to be a little more open ended (not nearly as much as Oblivion) I would like to have a little more option regarding planets/quests and actually have my choices make a difference (like the Onderon quest in TSL)

 

For me:

 

More species, someone mentioned different species = different stats/skills/weaknesses (hint hint)

More customization, not just your face but your entire body (tattoos, scars hairstyles, beards (like in Fable)

More sidequests (that may unlock special items/skills/feats/powers)

Larger maps (Nar Shaddaa in TSL sucked and Korriban was a bit of a disapointment in both and the whole Taris level... geesh I wasn't sorry when it was blown up)

More liberty for the PC (if your DS you should be able to kill any NPC you want and face the consequences, unless it's quest related)

The end of the completelly unreasonable random items where in the Sith Academy you get a Jedi Robe, in the Jedi Academy you get a Sith Robe and in a tomb you get a state of the art belt. Make them random but make it logical (in OB some items are random an others aren't, some are unlocked by a master skill, quests or fame/infamy)

 

I thing KotOR3 would benefit a lot from some Oblivion characteristics as long as it doens't water down the games concept

[GOD Radu]

The should let the production of KOTOR 3 to the real specialists the KOTOR moders.

The appearence of the PC in KOTOR 3 should have an in-game custom creation process, so that the each character would look diferent: big, small, fat, skiny. Maybe an optional face creation system. A lot of detail to the enviroment and the NPCs.

 

I saw Oblivion and it looked great, the producers should leurn something. The should be SFX redone. The atack system, more detail to hair, skin, character evolution.

And the LightSabers must leave marks on walls, people...like Jedi Academy.

KOTOR must have an easy to mod system, easy to understand - easy to mod.

The PC enemyes got to have a loosing body part system...like Jedi Academy.

Maybe something from Dark Messiah(storie ending stile and PC motion).

 

ANY THING THAT MAKES ME BUY IT!

 

 

 

P.S.: Sorry for the BAD english!

[Wildboar]

You cant really compare Kotor to Oblivion.

Oblivion isnt based on a tight fascinating Story, but on a huge explorable world.

Oblivion uses a combat system which cant be compared to the one Kotor is using.

 

yes you can.... and yes, it does. in fact it has a very tight main story ... you can just get side tracked from it.... but, that is your choice/doing... and on top of that it has many other things to do that add to the long term playability.

 

as far as the combat system i don't know what you mean... if your referring to the interface, oblivion has a much better interface. (imo) i seriously get frustrated with the kotor interface.

 

another combat interface that i really liked was the daoc system, which actually had styles and other things to get into a rock, paper, scissors type of combat interaction.

 

oblivion, and the rest of morrowind series is customizable so it can pretty much be changed to what ever you want it to be like just like the bioware product was. it is based on this product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebryo

 

what Bethesda, the Oblivion producer, did not do well, was make it so that you could easly tell the system that:

 

hey! your killing my machine bro! can you just give me a slider that i can say i would like performance over bells and whistles and you figure out what that means vs me having to go to the 27 some odd options for video alone and have to figure out what the heck is bloom and what does it do to performance?

 

but to me this is a general issue in games, the basic options don't do a good job of making it so that the user of the product does not have to click on the advanced button and become a computer graphics scientist in order to solve scaling back a game system that is capable of using everything in the latest gaming machines.

 

the bioware product however is really showing it's age http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey_Engine they licensed the product which allowed the next version of kotor to be produced. if you follow the link you will see that it for the most part is/(or appears to be) a desupported product. it's replacement is probably only going to be available for license after the game that is being developed around it is done... due for release in late 2007 or 2008... (heres a discussion of it incase your interested... http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=0&cId=3155733 sounds like it would be a great match for kotor 3... but... you will be waiting till 2009 if it were to be choosen imo)

 

Obsidian Entertainment probably frustrated with the lack of progress on the intermediate step from one game system to the next, seems to have gone and done it themselves... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_engine for NW2... and that... was really buggy at release... so much so, i stopped playing.

 

i don't care if the Lucas Arts chosen developer, makes it is as extensive as the morrowind series (of which oblivion is the latest) developers made theirs. i liked it that way... doesn't mean it has to be. but, i would like to see more along the line of being able to do things that are not in the script like... say jump off a bridge at the traya academy and since i judged the distance wrong, i fall to my death... and other things that are along the line of taking what you do impacts how people react to you in a much greater way... that is what is very well done in oblivion.

 

Face finetuning. Like the idea, however it should be done right with enough face models and enough hairmodels. In morrowind you couldn't pick the color and I don't know about oblivion, but I think it would be better that after you pick a haircut you also pick a color and not have the haircut and haircolor tied together. The same applies for the skincolor.

the number of options in oblivion for facial features could keep you absorbed for ... well i don't remember... it was a long time in my case... :-) infact a friend and i played with it alone for a long time.

Limited inventory, very bad idea, it takes the speed out of the game. Look at it this way, you have all your stuff on the Hawk, but you don't have to switch back and forth every time you switch items.

i do like the idea of you can keep picking up till your encumbered and if you need to you can go unload at someplace that is safe. eg: the hawk. also there were many ways around encumbered. items, spells etc that made it so you could carry more.

area's into 1 area will also increase the loadtime for each area, wich will cause longer waits when switching back and forth from the Hawk, as well as saving

area load times in games based on Gamebryo at least on the machines that i have played them on... rarely have apparent loading of the area. i think the designers do it when there are huge changes in materials... but you can walk all the way from one side of the game world to the other and not know when your going from one "zone" to another (if there really are any)

However lipsynching would be overkill as nobody looks at that anyway.

er, mmmm i would... i'm weird thou...

Some wheather effect would be nice, such as the wind effect of the hair, or

done in obliv, time of day, weather patterns, wind blowing, moon phases and orbiting, etc... no wet hair or clothing though :-(

when somebody farts you see their robes waving for a short time while everybody grabs for their nose making fitting comments.

make sure it also includes the scratch and sniff for realism... /coughs

Guilds would be pointless, you have more important things to do. You can't be bothered with getting yourself involved with a guild.

i don't agree with this, as someone else said there are many guilds in the kotor world and a PC could use the power of others that he/she had associated with to aid the PC in accomplishing a task.

 

much more interesting potential then a stable of horses that you randomly pull into the game when you need them or take them out when your about to do something that will end up with their disfavor(so you can cop out on taking the hit of doing the bad thing).

[DARTH_DANZIG]

I agree with you on the customizations and large maps.

 

Yea fully scaleable like oblivion and somewhat like academy couldn't hurt either.

[Rogue Spy]

I have played and completed everything there is to do on Oblivion and great game btw! but back on topic, i think ofcoarse the graphics would be great on K3, and i guess the gameplay could be like Oblivion's, but the gameplay of KOTOR is fine and i hope it's only released on Xbox 360 and PC (The deserving platforms) Wii and PS3 shouldn't get it. They have no previous record with the KOTOR series and its just stupid to release it on them.

[Darca Lar]

i got one question what would you rather a Oblivion TC of Kotor or a Game that feels like the previous ones imho it be better if it stayed as how it is

 

i tend to get lost with out a clear sense of direction in Freeform Rpgs i tend to favour more story drivin ones

 

Same here! I've gotten so lost in all the open sidequests that I still haven't beaten Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.

[Masgrtgr]

If KOTOR 3 was like Oblivion then the following things would be in the game:

 

1.You'll be able to join every faction most likely, even if you belong to a completely opposed one or you shouldn't normally be able to join them.

 

2.-Somehow you will invariably become the leader of a faction after being their errand boy for about a week or so.

 

3.-A non soldier PC who joins a faction will probably be given the same missions as any other character and will be unable to progress unless they complete that mission. Because it makes so much sense to send a diplomat to KILL SOME Mandalorian RAIDERS.....

 

4.After Bethesda's accomplishment of making the rocks in KOTOR 3 more "real" they forget to add a actual story....in haste they write ten minutes of dialogue and hire an actor that somebody in their staff has a hard-on for.

 

5.Children will no longer exist in kotor 3 as NPC's are too busy staring at walls or having the same boring conservations with each other or walking in and out of shops for no apparent reason.

 

6.Lots of NPCs that have no reason to exist, and nothing interesting to say. In fact there will be so many of these characters that talking to anybody at all will be pointless as there will be a 99.9% chance this will be the case. Thus you play the whole game not talking to anyone, and miss out on the few quests there are.

 

7.Spaceships will be cut from the game, then released a week after the game comes out, and will cost about $2.

 

8.Most of the skills will be cut from the game. Those that remain will either be irrelevant due to player skill (ie. aiming), or there'll be an item that makes the skill redundant (ie. an unbreakable lockpick).

 

9.Player dialogue will consist of listening to an NPC crap on, then repeating a single word that the NPC said back to him, allowing the NPC to continue crapping on. Other dialogue options incluse "Rumours" and "Goodbye".

 

10.At higher levels, every Exchanege thug you meet will be wearing Advanced Power Armour Mk. II, yet still only demand 100 credits from you.

[azzakabaz]

If KOTOR 3 was like Oblivion then the following things would be in the game:

 

1.You'll be able to join every faction most likely, even if you belong to a completely opposed one or you shouldn't normally be able to join them.

 

2.-Somehow you will invariably become the leader of a faction after being their errand boy for about a week or so.

 

3.-A non soldier PC who joins a faction will probably be given the same missions as any other character and will be unable to progress unless they complete that mission. Because it makes so much sense to send a diplomat to KILL SOME Mandalorian RAIDERS.....

 

4.After Bethesda's accomplishment of making the rocks in KOTOR 3 more "real" they forget to add a actual story....in haste they write ten minutes of dialogue and hire an actor that somebody in their staff has a hard-on for.

 

5.Children will no longer exist in kotor 3 as NPC's are too busy staring at walls or having the same boring conservations with each other or walking in and out of shops for no apparent reason.

 

6.Lots of NPCs that have no reason to exist, and nothing interesting to say. In fact there will be so many of these characters that talking to anybody at all will be pointless as there will be a 99.9% chance this will be the case. Thus you play the whole game not talking to anyone, and miss out on the few quests there are.

 

7.Spaceships will be cut from the game, then released a week after the game comes out, and will cost about $2.

 

8.Most of the skills will be cut from the game. Those that remain will either be irrelevant due to player skill (ie. aiming), or there'll be an item that makes the skill redundant (ie. an unbreakable lockpick).

 

9.Player dialogue will consist of listening to an NPC crap on, then repeating a single word that the NPC said back to him, allowing the NPC to continue crapping on. Other dialogue options incluse "Rumours" and "Goodbye".

 

10.At higher levels, every Exchanege thug you meet will be wearing Advanced Power Armour Mk. II, yet still only demand 100 credits from you.

 

1.u cant join the deadra worshipers on oblivion(the bad guys) adn that is the only faction that ppl opose... in the case of the sith in star wars u do get to join the in the end of kotor 1/2 even if u opose them for the whole game just 1 diologe and bam u r sith thin about that

 

2. it takes only 3 mins to become a jedi in kotor 1 and after that u go and take on a whole sith army? thats not smart seming u r practicly and errand boy

 

3. u r probably gona be a jedi again so u can send a jedi to go kill madalorians even if u r a diplomat. in star wars movies they didnt have a pobablem sending jedi (who are probably the best diplomates in the galazie) to war think about that 2

 

4. if u have played oblivion u know there is story to it and most npc do have useful diologue.

 

5. we thats true but if they make kotor 3 they woudl have goten over this and know they must put children in the game otherwise it cant continue into the movies kinda

 

6. not everyone in a galixie knows somthing useful and there are loads of quests in oblivion

 

7. dont know how u came to that conclusion but they didnt cut horses fromt oblivion did they. so i am pritty sure that space ships are gona be in the game otherwise u cant get to the next planet. they will probably release upgrades for your ship later just like they did with armor

 

8.thats not true ither do u know how hard it is to kill somthing at long range iwth a bow and now range skills? obviously not and they unbreakable lock pic is from a high lvl quest

 

9.pritty sure u havent played oblivion casue they dont crap on as much as kotor1/2 do and they dont repeat ither and there is only 2 single word replys and u said them both goodbye and rumours

 

10. well thats a valid point but then there are mods that change this hehe

 

but it is a good argument u have there Masgrtgr however mine is better hehe

 

and no two games are ever that same even if they are both made by the same company just liek morrwind and oblivion big diferances and kotor 1 and kotor 2tsl

 

and one last thing they didnt even compleat kotor 2 they rushed it and ****ed up a lot like taking all the kool fun things out and modders had to fix it

 

i like oblivions word creation and kotors game play that would be a good game

[Masgrtgr]

1.True but it's not like you can do very much for the Sith.

 

2.Did I say that was a good thing?

 

3.Yes but not all Jedi/people affiliated with Jedi are soldiers, some like Mical are scholars.

 

4.Oblivion may have had a story but it wasn't a good one, and can you guess why?

 

5.I doubt that since the ESRB would be all over Obsidian.

 

6.If that's true then why bother talking to them? Also most of the quests in Oblivion were either fetch quests or kill something or someone quests.

 

7.I was referring to how alot of the things that were in either mods or downloadable content could have easily been in the actual game (such as The Wizard's Tower).

 

8.If you look hard enough you can easily find powerful ranged weapons.

 

9.Yes KOTOR 1/KOTOR 2 NPCs do crap on but Oblivion's NPCs do it more often. Also thanks for proving my point, the whole "only two words to choose things" makes for bland dialogue.

 

10.That's my point! It doesn't make any sense for every single bandit/Exchange thug/mercenary/Dark Jedi to have Deadra equipment/Advanced Power Armour Mk. II and still demand only 100 credits from you. If I was any of the above and I had that kind of technology I would demand a lot more than that (3000 or so)!

[Mister Chief]

If KOTOR 3 was like Oblivion then the following things would be in the game:

 

1.You'll be able to join every faction most likely, even if you belong to a completely opposed one or you shouldn't normally be able to join them.

 

2.-Somehow you will invariably become the leader of a faction after being their errand boy for about a week or so.

 

3.-A non soldier PC who joins a faction will probably be given the same missions as any other character and will be unable to progress unless they complete that mission. Because it makes so much sense to send a diplomat to KILL SOME Mandalorian RAIDERS.....

 

4.After Bethesda's accomplishment of making the rocks in KOTOR 3 more "real" they forget to add a actual story....in haste they write ten minutes of dialogue and hire an actor that somebody in their staff has a hard-on for.

 

5.Children will no longer exist in kotor 3 as NPC's are too busy staring at walls or having the same boring conservations with each other or walking in and out of shops for no apparent reason.

 

6.Lots of NPCs that have no reason to exist, and nothing interesting to say. In fact there will be so many of these characters that talking to anybody at all will be pointless as there will be a 99.9% chance this will be the case. Thus you play the whole game not talking to anyone, and miss out on the few quests there are.

 

7.Spaceships will be cut from the game, then released a week after the game comes out, and will cost about $2.

 

8.Most of the skills will be cut from the game. Those that remain will either be irrelevant due to player skill (ie. aiming), or there'll be an item that makes the skill redundant (ie. an unbreakable lockpick).

 

9.Player dialogue will consist of listening to an NPC crap on, then repeating a single word that the NPC said back to him, allowing the NPC to continue crapping on. Other dialogue options incluse "Rumours" and "Goodbye".

 

10.At higher levels, every Exchanege thug you meet will be wearing Advanced Power Armour Mk. II, yet still only demand 100 credits from you.

 

 

Good Job at not reading any of the posts at all.

[grievous797]

Agreed.I love oblivion

[kotor_freak]

In some ways i could see K3 a bit like Oblivion, but i reckon Fable or Fable 2 (if you've seen the test levels) fits the bill.

 

Fable = (my opinion) perfect.

 

Why? It's realistic, people react to you when you change, grow stronger, grow fat (heh that's funny, back to the subject..) etc.

[stoffe]

Fable = (my opinion) perfect.

 

Why? It's realistic, people react to you when you change, grow stronger, grow fat (heh that's funny, back to the subject..) etc.

 

This is one of the main reasons I didn't like Fable. When I play an RPG I want to focus on the adventure and story. I fail to see the fun in having to watch the cholesterol intake of my character to ensure they stay fit, manage food, sleep and exercise, schedule the game so you can achieve what you want before your character grows old and die. There is enough of that crap in real life, when I play a fantasy game I don't want to think of that.

 

I want to be able to design my character to be and look how I want them to be without having to struggle throughout the game to keep them that way, and focus on their achievement in the story and game world instead.

 

Realism in itself isn't necessarily a good thing in games. It has the potential to take away the fun as much as it has to enhance it, depending on the situation where it's used.

 

 

 

NPC reactions to what you have done is good and makes it feel a bit more like what you do in the game matters. This is something that's been somewhat lacking in the KOTOR games so far, where many NPCs only are fillers who say the exact same thing and seem oblivious to anything you do. But preferably the NPCs should have a reasonable chance of actually knowing who you are and what you have done if they comment. In many RPGs the NPC population seems to have a collective consciousness where everyone in a city halfway across the continent immediately knows you've been mean to a hermit NPC in the middle of nowhere.

[kotor_freak]

I see what your getting at, and in some ways i agree.

 

But probably the main reason that i would like to see K3 a bit like Fable is NPC reactions, like stoffe said (oh nice name ). They do seem to lack it, mainly because it's only the party members that react to your choices no one else around you. Yes, they would need to know the PC and they're background, but i'm sure that some NPCs will hear rumours about the PC being an evil Sith Lord or a great Jedi Master.

 

Yes, Oblivion is nice, especially the way you can socialise with everyone around you and become more a part of the Elder Scroll world, but to me Fable does it more.

[Darca Lar]

To make K3 open ended but not too open that it would be exactly like Fable or the Elder Scrolls series, they should only take necessary pieces of realism and incorporate it so its real, but also fun and similar to the previous two KOTOR games.

[kotor_freak]

To make K3 open ended but not too open that it would be exactly like Fable or the Elder Scrolls series, they should only take necessary pieces of realism and incorporate it so its real, but also fun and similar to the previous two KOTOR games.

 

By fun, do you mean getting the choice to hack some random guy to pieces?

 

Yeah, suppose...

[Gargoyle King]

Like Oblivion?! Oh no it shouldn't!

The great thing about Kotor is it's simplicity - turn it into this and what have you got? An S/P version of SWG - you get the drill!

[kotor_freak]

No, i mean like in K1 & TSL, you could make darkn side choices in speech, then you get to fight some random guy and kill 'em.

 

I remember starting a new game just to do that.

[Darca Lar]

Well I don't think killing a random guy is exactly what I meant by fun. By fun I meant like the previous, more simplistic games, except with slightly more realism.

[kotor_freak]

well i found it fun

 

thats probably just me...

 

man i have serious issues to sort out.

 

Yeah i got what you meant

 

Just trying to brighten up the conversation with my humerous jokes which don't seem to be working...

[Darca Lar]

Yes, in Fable it was fun to just kill an entire town and become evil, owning every house and shop and ruling with an iron whack 'em stick!

[Gargoyle King]

Yes, in Fable it was fun to just kill an entire town and become evil, owning every house and shop and ruling with an iron whack 'em stick!

 

It would be fun i suppose to have this somewhere in Kotor 3 but i personally don't think it'll work - the novelty would wear off pretty quickly and it'll get, well lame quite frankly.

[Darca Lar]

Yea, games like Fable and the Elder Scrolls series are supposed to be that open, but KOTOR is more about the story than its realism. But a little bit more realism wouldn't hurt.