lukeiamyourdad Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 What exactly did you want LucasArts to rebut? From what I've read it appears to me that Obsidian reps have chosen their words very carefully when commenting on TSL's shortcomings. I haven't seen any Obsidian reps say that it was LucasArts' fault for TSL's weaknesses. Perhaps one can say Obsidian's CEO implied something though when he said it was Obsidian's fault for agreeing to such an aggressive release timeline for TSL. I'm not sure that LucasArts lack of comment about TSL has a great deal of significance. I mean, what did LEC have to say about the original KotOR? From what I've seen not a whole lot besides the official press releases. Comments on both games seem to come mostly from their respective developer and not the publisher. That is true. I mean, LEC's job is basically to market the game, take care of a few things like recording the voices and making sure that it "fits" the Star Wars lore. The rest is the developer's job. I forgot this little quote: If Mac hates TSL so much, why has he released an ongoing series of mods for it? I'm afraid that your comment is rather illogical. So what? Releasing mods means you want to add your own things or improve it. If you've read his past posts, you'll see quite a great deal of bashing TSL. My comment is not illogical. Hey, lots of people dislike E@W yet stay around and make mods for it in order to improve the game to their liking. Besides, I don't see how someone who says that TSL has been a nail in the coffin for the KotOR serie loved it. Even if he saw some copies returned, he certainly should've sought more reasons behind it then some sort of general disatisfaction. Mac- You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine and that is not up for debate. However, I will keep ramming into you as long as you make up facts. You're right about one thing: I don't like it when people make up false crap. Since we're talking about it, you have not answered any of my concerns about your "facts" and theories. I don't find this particularly entertaining, but I can't let ignorance be spread around. I would not continue to argue if evidence was shown to back your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 So what? Releasing mods means you want to add your own things or improve it. If you've read his past posts, you'll see quite a great deal of bashing TSL. My comment is not illogical. Hey, lots of people dislike E@W yet stay around and make mods for it in order to improve the game to their liking. Besides, I don't see how someone who says that TSL has been a nail in the coffin for the KotOR serie loved it. Even if he saw some copies returned, he certainly should've sought more reasons behind it then some sort of general disatisfaction. If you hate a game, generally you uninstall it. I believe you have mistaken Mac's criticism of a flawed creation - albeit quite harsh criticism - as a hatred of it. There are varying degrees between love and hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 If you hate a game, generally you uninstall it. I believe you have mistaken Mac's criticism of a flawed creation - albeit quite harsh criticism - as a hatred of it. There are varying degrees between love and hate. Perhaps you're right, that it is mainly very harsh criticism and hate might have been a word too strong for the situation. I should've known better then to throw it around like that and I retract that statement. However, this does not end things. He provided no evidence to back up his claims and only explained his opinions. When I asked for evidence, he turned attention away to other elements or went around it. Speaking about uninstalling games because you hate them, it's actually more or less true depending on the person. Usually, people who like to mod stick around to fiddle with it. I've known quite a few BF1942 mod players who hated the vanilla version and I do mean hate. Yet they stook around and played the game with some of the best mods available. It makes the difference between a hardcore gamer and the common gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApoLLo- Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Yes! I would love to see them make the Vong war into a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Source Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Before I leave for vacation, I thought I would answer 'likeiamyourdad'. Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp KotOR II may have been a nail in the coffin for the KotOR series. I am not sure yet. For the moment, I don't think a third will sell well. If they wait for a few years, I can see high sales in a KotOR III. However, they will have to wait until the affects of KotOR II are well gone. -MacLeodCorp. 05-31-2006, 05:29 PM What coffin? Has the franchise been declining ever since the first game? You need more then a second title not being on par with the first one to nuke a franchise. TSL was far from abysmal and did gather generally good reviews and sold well. - lukeiamyourdad 06-02-2006, 08:00 PM From my interpretation of Obsidian's 2005 magazine article (I cannot find it online at the moment), add it to the annoucement that Lucas Arts had laid off the original KotOR III developers in 2004, and how Obsidian didn't finish the KotOR II's storyline, I drew the conclusion that the series was on its way out. I got the impression from those elements, that Lucas Arts may have walked away from Obsidian. I do not know for a fact, but I drew a conclusion anyway. I never once said in my statement that I am delivering facts, but I did mention that I was making a theory. A few month ago, I decided to add (theoretical) into my posts, so people will not become confussed. I am in no means an expert at how buisness trasactions work, and I do not claim to be a buisness major. As I said above, I do like playing KotOR II. I have a strong opinion about certain aspects of the game, but I truely enjoy playing the game. I will not apologize for my opinion, or someone elses perspective for my posts. However, when I am making a statement that comes off strong, I will add the words 'Theory' in large letters. I admit that I do have some posts that seem extraordinarily negative about KotOR II, and if they come off slightly offensive to anyone, I apologize for not restraining my dramatic outlook. On a seperate note: People can interprate information in multiple ways. My interpretation of (I think you should start working for political parties. You're a decent propagandatist.) was negative. I took it as an attack on me personally. Like I had to learn, you also have to watch what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Char Ell Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 ^^^ What?? No reasons for wanting to hear LucasArts rebut Obsidian's statements? Why does LIAYD get all the love? From my interpretation of Obsidian's 2005 magazine article (I cannot find it online at the moment), add it to the annoucement that Lucas Arts had laid off the original KotOR III developers in 2004, and how Obsidian didn't finish the KotOR II's storyline, I drew the conclusion that the series was on its way out. I got the impression from those elements, that Lucas Arts may have walked away from Obsidian. I think it's quite possible that LEC will not tap Obsidian for the next KotOR. However I don't think that necessarily translates to LEC "walking away" from the KotOR series altogether. For me it's still too early to draw that conclusion. In regards to LEC's 2004 layoff of KotOR III developers I think that had more to do with newly appointed LEC president Jim Ward cleaning house than a complete cancellation of KotOR III though I do think the action postponed/altered LEC's original KotOR III plans. Bah. I'm trying to read the tea leaves at the bottom of the cup here. I just read them differently than you do. But IMHO if any Star Wars game "needs" to be made it's KotOR 3. So yes, let's keep the Star Wars games coming! P.S. Enjoy your vacation! There's nothing like some good R&R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I do not know for a fact, but I drew a conclusion anyway. See? You know what your problem is, yet do nothing to solve it. You drew a conclusion without having done the proper research. I am in no means an expert at how buisness trasactions work, and I do not claim to be a buisness major. You don't need to be a business major to know what you're talking about. Journalists for example, often have done lots of research on a subject before writing about it. Ok, that's not entirely true and a bit of wishful thinking from my part, but a lot of serious journalists, have at first glance no knowledge or credibility to talk about a certain thing. Yet, when they write their articles or books, they have good statements and good arguments to back them up. You don't have to be an expert, you just need to have done your research properly. Of course, in a fight between an economist and a journalist, my money's on the economist, but the journalist who did his job will stand his ground for quite a while. I will not apologize for my opinion, or someone elses perspective for my posts. However, when I am making a statement that comes off strong, I will add the words 'Theory' in large letters. I admit that I do have some posts that seem extraordinarily negative about KotOR II, and if they come off slightly offensive to anyone, I apologize for not restraining my dramatic outlook. It's not offensive. You are entitled to your opinion and I have nothing to say about it. Claiming things to be just a theory does not prevent you from getting attacked. It's like a scientist publicly showing a theory on why the Earth is round. People then ram into him because it is totally flawed. He cannot hide behind a word. When you make a theory, you base it on facts you collect. That theory, when thrown into the public sphere, is subject to criticism. You cannot make any sort of claim and then hide behind the word "theory". It does not justify, in any way, making flase claims. If you believe in what you say, then you'll try to defend it with arguments. If you don't, then you retract it. It has nothing to do with interpretation of your opinions. I never once said in my statement that I am delivering facts, but I did mention that I was making a theory. I'm sorry, this is false. During the first months of KotOR II's release, I saw huindreds of 'Used' copies being sold at EB, Game Spot, etc... Stating a fact, not an opinion. In no way can this be an opinion. I think EAW's numbers impressed Lucas Arts, but I don't see that a large amount of fans liked what they bought. The expansion pack sales will show what will happen. Look for a decline in sales. Another fact. On other parts, you're trying to predict the future sales of XYZ games. Again, you cannot hide behind the word "theory". If you believe something to be true, you bring your arguments and defend your theory. On a seperate note: People can interprate information in multiple ways. My interpretation of (I think you should start working for political parties. You're a decent propagandatist.) was negative. I took it as an attack on me personally. Like I had to learn, you also have to watch what you say. I watched it. It was an attack as it was meant to be. Your style of writing your theories reminds me of propaganda writers. Theorizing on XYZ without having done the proper research and discarding half of the facts and factors who can lead to XYZ situation, keeping only the ones that seem to fit the writer's way of thinking. Oh, on a seperate note, learn to watch what you say, hiding behind the word "theory" doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I don't suppose you two could take the mutual love-fest over writing styles to PMs, could you? I have a feeling I'm not the only one who's a little uncomfortable reading something that looks like it's gone beyond a friendly debate. Back OT.... How about a game about Exar Kun? There's plenty of stuff for a good story. Of course, they could invent something that happens 3200 years before or some other time and make up a completely new story. While I'd love to see K3, I'd also be happy with another well-done SW RPG, no matter what time they set it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Com Raven Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 MacLeod and Luke; cool off buddies. Disagreeing on the matter is fine et al, but we don't want this go get to personal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostb Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Definetly Yes. I hope Kotor3 and RC2 will be released before i get old and die . And i still remember XWing and 2 broken mouses on DX4-120. So - yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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