The experience system & skills and abilities thread

[{TheChosenOne}]

About the "pistols" comment from Max. There is plenty of different pistols out there for JKA, notably the Scout pistol for the Scout trooper models, DH-17, Bryar, and one more I think I'm missing. I kinda prefer one of the above as they are pistols/guns we are all fimiliar with and wouldn't have had to have played SWG to know what it is.

 

I also agree with Max on the gunning part.

[Maxstate]

About the "pistols" comment from Max. There are plenty of different pistols out there for JKA, notably the Scout pistol for the Scout trooper models, DH-17, Bryar, and one more I think I'm missing. I kinda prefer one of the above as they are pistols/guns we are all fimiliar with and wouldn't have had to have played SWG to know what it is.

 

I also agree with Max on the gunning part.

Each would require permission to be asked.

 

I don't see how this is really relevant to the whole thread? We know that there are a lot of weapon models out there, I've asked permission to use a lot of them and most of my emails haven't been returned. I did get the DE-10 though, which seems like an excellent, over-looked pistol that has everything it needs to make for a good addition.

 

Why should we be the gazzilionth mod to have clone rifles or DH-17's?

Dude, instead of trying to copy the more popular mods and feed on their ideas and creativity, how about we go ahead and try to think and make up something original. If I want to play cheap movie ripoffs, or unbalanced FFA Super Smash Brothers look-a-likes I can make my way to jk3files and do so, but no other mod features the time, the effort, the originality, the creativity that OJP features.

 

I want to keep it that way, quality over quantity. As for the guns, the two main problems we face now are:

-Time; Ace is picky about features because of his very limited time. He'll need to start working soon and he won't have much or any time even for OJP.

 

-Coding difficulty; We have a few on and off coders, no offense to all of you that HAVE contributed, but for me the main chieftains are Ensiform and Razor Ace. Ensi has made a start on weapon slots and would like to try to implement the possibility of adding new weapons, Razor would like that too but it seems like a very daunting task. And if you look at the first problem (time) you question and wonder about the possibilities.. One new gun (and the possibility of adding new ones later on, hopefully from people like Ensiform that will still be interested in contuining OJP) or a lot of other features?

 

Now I have nothing against new weapons being added, nothing against features or ideas being plucked from different mods here and there, but I am against overdoing it and making this mod into something that we've already seen. I pleaded for OJP to switch to Siege Mode a time ago and now I really look back at that post in shame.

 

The mental gap seems to be filling quickly as I notice how naive I was then, I'll probably regret this post even more later..

Back to the subject. Lets not start losing sight of the forest because of the trees, OJP 0.1.0 is done, it's polishing time. Polishing may mean ironing out the final bugs, but polishing may also mean adding more skills.

But I do not think polishing means overhauling the weapon slot system just to add a couple of weapons that we've all seen and used before.

 

I personally WOULD do it for the DE-10 though, the weapon is just magnificent. SWG or not, it's an overlooked weapon that with the right settings could give gunners just that bit of extra choice to hang on to OJP much longer.

 

If (read when) we get our sh1t together, and if our coders (not being ingrateful for their very nice work already ) are still up to the seemingly daunting task if we can believe Razor, then I would gladly accept any and all weapons into OJP. Bring 'em on.

 

To finish up though, for now, I would just like to see a prototype gun be installed if possible. Just to see if it works. If people (team) don't (doesn't) want that, then at least lets try and pitch in and add some groovy skill, gadget additions or weapon/forcepower tweaks?

[razorace]

Speaking of permissions, everyone, please remember to harass this "Tobe" fellow so we can get permission to use his flame effects for the flamethrower!

 

Secondly, I think we should clarify that Enhanced v0.1.0 isn't finished yet. We're very close, but there still additional skills and features that I'd like to get into the release before we call it v0.1.0.

[JRHockney*]

Why should we be the gazzilionth mod to have clone rifles or DH-17's?

 

Well, after all the "its not movierealistic" talk we've done, it would be a shame not to include weapons that are actually from the movies. I've always liked the clone rifle myself.

 

0.1.0 is done, it's polishing time.

 

I'm still slow to say that. There are still features and changes that I've wanted in this version for a long time and I hope they get in before the release. And since this may very well be the last build that razor does lead on, I'm not as concerned about how long its been since our last release since depending on how OJP's future pans out and what kind of help we get, this version may be as good as it gets.

 

More skills are important though, but I think offering more options in general on the point menu is equally important. Ideally, if we are really going to excel in the type of open gameplay we're going for, our menu should be packed full of options. I mean, if you take a mod like MB2 or maybe even FM3 and you look at the total amount possible skills between all the classes, they total up to alot more than what we have now, and we're trying to go for ultimate customization. We should at least try to come close.

 

Also, for the sake of appealing to more traditional players, it might be worth it to have some preset point combinations kind of like how it has it for force powers (i.e swashbuckler, etc.). Except with guns and items, we could make sort of psuedo classes and just call certain combos "mandolorian" or "soldier" or whatever we come up with. Since their more or less pseudo classes, we wouldn't have to worry too much about balance unless we find players and servers actually use them or even want class only setups.

[UDM]

Speaking of permissions, everyone, please remember to harass this "Tobe" fellow so we can get permission to use his flame effects for the flamethrower!

 

Secondly, I think we should clarify that Enhanced v0.1.0 isn't finished yet. We're very close, but there still additional skills and features that I'd like to get into the release before we call it v0.1.0.

He hasn't replied to my post at jk2files yet. He didn't upload his email either. But I'll look around and try to get it anyway

[UDM]

Max: yes I do agree, Ensi and Razor have been doing almost all of the work as of late. You guys are awesome

 

On to what I want to post: actually I believe we should agree on a mainstream system that OJP wants to head into, and then split up into divisions. For example, one group works on adding new skills, one group works on the maps ie if we're going co-op, one group works on adding everything together, one group works on beta testing, one on animations, one on modelling etc. I think that due to our limited number of contributors, we'll just have to make the best of what we can do, and prioritise the importance of each job so that those who can multi task eg. modeller cum mapper can work on the more immediate task first

[Sushi_CW]

Some comments and ideas that mostly apply here, although some of it might actually belong in the saber combat thread (sorry).

 

My experience with the flamethrower is also that it is overpowered, although that is mostly because it is cheap (a mere 8 points) and impossible to block or counter in any way.

Some possible ideas for balancing it (we could use whatever combination seems best):

 

1. Make it so that having Absorb skill reduces the damage taken.

2. Make it so that force pushing a flamethrower sends the flame back at the attacker for a second and gives the target a reprieve (while damaging the attacker).

2a. Same as above, but automatic like rocket-pushing.

3. Make the flamethrower more expensive.

 

I like #2 best in terms of balance, although making a visual effect for it might prove difficult.

 

 

---

I like the new kicks, they look cool and are much easier to use. Unfortunately, now that kicks are so easy to make, they are spammable. I was able to routinely kill any bot with nothing but kicks. Possible ways to fix this:

 

1. Remove the ability to block while kicking. Now that kicks are so much faster, I don't know if we need it.

2. Kick-blocking of some kind. I favor making it so that you can't get kicked over while crouching..more on balancing crouch below.

 

I remember at one point someone suggested making it so that you can't use a saber while crouched. I didn't like that idea before, but I think there is a good deal of merit to it now. I think the idea could work if the rules for crouching with a saber out are as follows:

1. Players would be able to deflect blaster fire.

2. Players would be able to block saber attacks with a 2X damage penalty.

3. Players would NOT be able to swing their saber while crouched, EXCEPT for moves that require crouching (lunge, staff twirl, dual twirl).

 

 

---

I think making gun accuracy depend on stand/crouch/run is a good idea. It would also be nice if there was some way to get more ammo for your guns... right now, when you're out, you're stuck with the pistol and flamethrower. We should either let ammo spawn on the maps again or add a gradual recharge for at least some kinds of ammo.

[UDM]

I'm with the gradual recharge option. The bigger the weapon, the slower the recharge rate. So a rocket would pop into your rocket launcher like say...once every 30 seconds, while a blaster bolt would pop in like 1 every 3 seconds

[JRHockney*]

1. Remove the ability to block while kicking. Now that kicks are so much faster, I don't know if we need it.

 

I think razor is looking into that. I suggested making it so that you can only block on the opposite side of your kick, thus making it more usable for two on one situations and he had me submit a ticket for it. If that can't be done, then yeah I think we shouldn't allow blocking in kick either.

 

I'm also worried that the flamethrower is unbalanced against saber as well but I havent been able to test it against areal person yet.

 

I'm with the gradual recharge option. The bigger the weapon, the slower the recharge rate. So a rocket would pop into your rocket launcher like say...once every 30 seconds, while a blaster bolt would pop in like 1 every 3 seconds

 

 

Probably a good idea. 30 seconds might be a bit too lng though.

[Finneh]

I'd make the rocket fire rate the same as SW battlefront, whcih i believe is 6-7 seconds, which is a decent rate.

 

As for the blaster rifle skills, I think their alrite but I still think the power shot, rapid shot, scope, etc skills would make it much better. Just give a scope button that is seperate of the alt key, and away you go. Also if you are to have a scope, it should have either a faster moving projectile that does more damage or a kind of beam that comes out.

 

As for gun leveling, you could instead give default fire higher rate of fire, and more accurate shots. If you've played FM III, for some classes repeater is really inaccurate and others its pretty accurate. I think this can be implemented into this mod, for example:

 

Repeater lvl 1 - You get repeater and well shoot XD

 

Repeater Lvl 2 - Fire rate increased, accuracy is higher

 

Repeater lvl 3 - Fire rate is further increased and accuracy is very good.

 

And for rapid shot, on FM III, the super battle droid has extremely high rate of fire. Rapid fire should do that. For each level it shoots faster and faster.

 

Power shot should just fire liek the pistol alt fire does and sends a big charge at an enemy.

 

If you dont want a seperate scope key, you can just make it alt fire and make it so that if you have scope, you cant get power shot or rapid shot, and vice versa..

 

Also I think the rocket is great, its perfect XD

[{TheChosenOne}]

To add on to the comment on flamethrowers, I agree they are pretty badly overpowered as well as them having a huge damaging arc. I played on a server today and it only took 2 flames to kill someone. It also recharges so fast which isn't exactly a great thing.

[Maxstate]

Yes, really Ace, having the fuel recharge isn't a really good idea.

If you really want it to recharge, make it do so VERY SLOWLY.

 

Next up: The jetpack...

[razorace]

We could disable the fuel regen but that would make the jetpack run out of fuel quickly. Alternatively, we could just have the jetpack not use fuel and make the fuel exclusively for the flamethrower.

[JRHockney*]

To add on to the comment on flamethrowers, I agree they are pretty badly overpowered as well as them having a huge damaging arc. I played on a server today and it only took 2 flames to kill someone. It also recharges so fast which isn't exactly a great thing.

 

You know, the more I think about it, they might not be quite as overpowered as we think. In MB2, probably the best way for a jedi to kill a mando flamethrower is to use speed. Maybe in tonights playtest you guys can test that. I probably wont be around again until later if that.

[Maxstate]

You know, the more I think about it, they might not be quite as overpowered as we think. In MB2, probably the best way for a jedi to kill a mando flamethrower is to use speed. Maybe in tonights playtest you guys can test that. I probably wont be around again until later if that.

Well if we get to adding that SWBF2 sprint idea of mine no balancing would be required.

[{TheChosenOne}]

I think the fuel on a jetpack shouldn't recarge at all but all the drains from it are really small.

[UDM]

That'd be a major problem then, especially for players who are reliant on the jetpack to get around. They would rely on "kill" to "recharge" their jetpack, and thats not what we want, now do we?

[{TheChosenOne}]

That'd be a major problem then, especially for players who are reliant on the jetpack to get around. They would rely on "kill" to "recharge" their jetpack, and thats not what we want, now do we?

 

Unless someone was extremely skilled they would die regardless when using jetpack before it runs out. Also I wouldn't exactly want some uber experienced guy having an infinite recharge on something on the level of a jetpack, especially coupled with flamethrower. I think that the drain on "fuel" should be extremely small but not rechargable.

 

Limiting jetpack would also make them pick and choose rather than jetting everywhere, same with flame. Saving it for the harder targets or jedi in general.

 

OT: On a side note flamethrower can be used WHILE using jetpack which essentially means an untouchable enemy that does immense amounts of damage.

 

OT2: I was wondering if someone could change the visuals on jetpack as it looks.....bleh...I don't particularly like the blue stuff.

[razorace]

It's not exactly unfair. Jedi get regenerating FP.

[Maxstate]

It's not exactly unfair. Jedi get regenerating FP.

But when Jedi's FP is drained it leaves them open qua speed and power.

They can't use their sabers, Force and can't outrun anyone to regen their FP because they are fatigued.

 

Plus Jedi's Force Powers have a small death ratio compared to the flamethrower.

 

Just make it regen SLOW.

[Maxstate]

Something I posted in the bug tracker:

 

It seems to me that gunners are currently very overpowered.

 

Hold your horses! I'm not done yet.

 

Okay so remember what we had planned guys?

Remember that we were gonna tread into the footsteps of an old mod that rewarded people that took a specific skilltree with high level weapons?

Remember that the thing was that gunners with high level weapons could not get high level force powers, and Jedi shouldn't be able to get high level guns or explosives, or gadgets for that matter?

 

Why can gunners get all the guns , a flamethrower, Jump 3 AND lightning 3 without facing a single penalty?

 

Is this the way you guys want it to be? Intend it to be? Or are we still facing some changes on the matter of rewarding non-hybrid classes like we planned up front?

 

Because seriously, if this is how it's gonna stay then I'm thinking about disabling guns at the Euro servers.. As I said before, gunners have everything Jedi have and more. They can use lightning 3 to drain your dp and face no penalties at all since they don't use their DP for anything, they can use up their FP jumping away and avoiding your saber slashes while still shooting you with Jump 3 at the cost of 1 FP per jump, and if you replace 'gun' by 'flamethrower' or 'rocketlauncher'...

 

They could also just use the flamethrower on you as long as they want and use Jump 3 to stay ahead of you, and since OJP has an excellent hit detection system , killing gunners that use this strategy is marvelously random and uncertain.

 

Fighting gunners as of late is just becoming alltogether frustrating. I've been playing OJP with friends during the whole week, replacing most at-home activities I had planned. But I haven't played it for 2 days ever since gunners came rushin' in with their new abuse-everything strategies..

 

Seriously, as I just said, being JUST a jedi is not rewarding anymore. I'm ALL for having maximum customization options, but I don't want Jedi to become an incomplete class build or a rudimentary saying in OJP..

 

Can I get some response to my questions here?

[JRHockney*]

I tend to agree here. Originally, I suggested that people with guns out only get level 1 force powers so they can at least block force powers they have while walking. I think that might be at least one way to do it.

[ensiform]

Possible Bacta Level 3:

 

Give 6 health points every 3 seconds if your health plus 6 is less than your max health, if not and is still less than max just set to max.

 

/*
==================
ClientTimerActions

Actions that happen once a second
==================
*/
void ClientTimerActions( gentity_t *ent, int msec ) {
gclient_t	*client;
//[ExpSys]
static int numSecs = 0;
//[/ExpSys]

client = ent->client;
client->timeResidual += msec;

while ( client->timeResidual >= 1000 ) 
{
	client->timeResidual -= 1000;

	//[ExpSys]
	if(++numSecs == 3) {
		numSecs = 0;
		// bacta stuff
		if(client->skillLevel[sK_BACTA] == FORCE_LEVEL_3) {
			int give = 6;
			if ( ent->health+give < client->ps.stats[sTAT_MAX_HEALTH] ) {
				ent->health += give;
			} else if ( ent->health >= client->ps.stats[sTAT_MAX_HEALTH] ) {
				// do nothing here
			} else {
				ent->health = client->ps.stats[sTAT_MAX_HEALTH];
			}
		}
	}
	//[/ExpSys]

	// count down health when over max
	if ( ent->health > client->ps.stats[sTAT_MAX_HEALTH] ) {
		ent->health--;
	}

	//[ExpSys]
	/*
	// count down armor when over max
	if ( client->ps.stats[sTAT_ARMOR] > client->ps.stats[sTAT_MAX_HEALTH] ) {
		client->ps.stats[sTAT_ARMOR]--;
	}
	*/
	//[/ExpSys]
}
}

[razorace]

I keep thinking we need some sort of score adjustor to balance out the jedi vs gunners. Perhaps we should have one where unallocated skill points give you more score?

 

The real question is, how should we keep score with the new experience system? Maybe in terms of damage dealt + objectives accomplished?

 

As for level 3 bacta, do we really want to have a power that gives perminate health regeneration? That just seems unbalancing to me.

[UDM]

Agreed. Instead, what about having bacta respawn in your inventory per skill level of bacta? Every merc is given 3 bacta, but at level 1, the bacta respawns only at a rate of 1 per 5 mins. At level 2, bacta respawns at a rate of 1 per 3 mins. At level 3, bacta respawns at a rate of 1 per 2 mins